Knife Rights Doug Ritter and Off-Grid Knives Cary Orefice
The Knife Junkie Podcast (Episode 366)

00:04
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast, your weekly dose of knife news and information about knives and knife collecting.
Here's your host, Bob the knife junkie DeMarco.
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast.
I'm your host Bob DeMarco.
On this edition of the show.
We're going to replay our one hour time slot during the Knives Live 2020 two 24 hour stream on November 4th and 5th.
This is a this is the second annual knives live 24 hour live stream to benefit kniveskniferights.org.

00:44
Now this was put together by.
A good friend, Shane Gables with the help of Kev of Lefty EDC, as well as John Evans and a number of others.
It is an outstanding event that brings together over 24 of our favorite trusted voices in knife YouTube, Berry and we're here to talk all about knife rights.
And on this show I have lucky enough to have Doug Ritter to talk about knife rights on and then halfway through the show we get Cary Orefice of Off-Grid knives joining us now, Cary gave us two different donation packages which we give away during the show.
So a good time was had by all.
Please check out, take take a little bit of time.

01:28
Go back and check out all of the different hours from knives live.
It is man.
People were going into the wee hours of the night and it was a spectacle to behold.
So here we go, knives live and our knife junkie podcast portion of the 2022. Knives live 24 hour broadcast.
Do you carry multiple knives?
Then overthink which one to use when an actual cutting chore pops up.
You're a knife junkie of the 1st order.

01:58
Welcome back to Knives Live 2022. I'm Bob DeMarco of the Knife Junkie podcast.
And today we're going to be talking with Doug Ritter.
And we also have Cary of Off-Grid knives joining us later.
But you know, the main thrust of this whole event is to celebrate and raise funds for knives, knife rights and kniferights.org has a very special place in my heart because it is allowed me to to to legally own one of my favorite knives.
We're going to get to that in a little while first.
I just would like to thank the guys over at Shredder, Jonathan Ezekiel at all and the family.
Such a charming, awesome family and.

02:38
It was great to see them back up and on the air.
I know they have some kinks to workout before.
They can be doing that all the time, but it was great to see them.
And, man, it makes me wistful for California.
It looks so beautiful there.
But but here we are.
I hear Doug.

02:57
Hey, Doug.
How's it going, Sir?
Hey, always a pleasure.
I've been on a few of these.
I'm not sure my voice is gonna last.
Oh, oh, I don't know.
I I think it probably will if if the past is, is any indication of the future.

03:13
Yeah.
So you've been on a number of these live streams so far talking about knife rights, and we're going to talk all about it.
First, I have to ask you what you're carrying in your pocket, Doug Ritter.
OK. So it might surprise you that I'm carrying a mini.
With the with the jade.
I got a little squirt.
I got my usual key chain of stuff.

03:45
Nice.
That's so a full size and a mini I had today.
I had to go into work and so I carried my mini with the.
I put a little bug out clip on it, carried this many.
This was actually a gift from you.
I don't know if you remember that, but thank you very much.
I love this knife, cherish it and it's a great EDC, but when I came home in honor of knives live, I put on the fixed blade and actually I just took it off so I could be showing it off, but I love this mark.

04:18
Three, I think this is a really, really great fixed knife.
Yeah, so how how is the?
How is the popularity of the fixed blade compared to the folder?
Not even close.
I'm not sure why, because everyone who gets one loves one, but the fixed blade mark three is easily our slowest seller.
And and and it's weird.
Um.

04:47
Everyone who gets one and uses it, it's like, Oh my God, this is great.
Just like the folder, but it's a slow mover for us, you know?
It's a little more expensive.
That's a big chunk of S 45 VN, but.
Most of us with most of us with urban.
Sorry for interrupting.
Most of us with urban or suburban lifestyles can't, can't Don fixed blades as as well or as easily as folders.

05:15
We got Tom Bunny Hunter saying hey Doug how's it going?
Tom Bunny.
Good to have you here now lives one-on-one.
I want slash need to get one of the carbon fiber exclusive Ritter Hogue RSK's.
Yeah, that's what is that what the Magna cut.
Alright, alright, that was a Sprint run.
It did.

05:33
It did incredibly well.
I mean, that's the most expensive RSK we've ever done and it sold out in few hours.
So, you know, we learn and we move on and you know, we'll see.
You know, I, as you know, I have a policy of not discussing future products.
But let me assure you, there are future products and I think people are going to be really excited about it.
Hero Sticks is saying in addition to donations, does a portion of purchasing a Ritter knife from the website go to knife rights?
Just curious.

06:08
Good question.
So it doesn't directly go to knife rights, in other words we don't set aside you know 5% of sales, but.
I spend about 95% of my time on knife rights work.
Having the the sales of my RSK knives are what allow me to do that.
If I didn't sell those knives and get the income from selling those knives, I couldn't devote the time necessary to make knife rights work.
So not directly, but indirectly.
Yeah, I can't do knife rights without the sale of my RSK knives.

06:46
And you know, it's it's great that I need to sell a knife that is really nice and I'm not chilling for, you know, crappy knife just just to make the income.
So yeah, they they are critical to my continued work at knife rights.
Well, I wanna get to some of your work with knife rights in my very own state of Virginia and I want to talk about Pennsylvania and New Jersey.
But first I want to let people know that we're going to be doing 2 giveaways today of knives very generously donated by Off-Grid knives by carry over there.
And this package includes one package has the the alpha dog.
We were just watching the shredder guys talk about how awesome this knife is and they were not lying.
And this comes with a T-shirt long sleeve.

07:37
By the way, with a cool sort of retro logo.
And then the other package is the Stinger XL, except it's all black.
This one's mine.
I didn't want to take it out-of-the-box.
So you get it written nice and fresh with a with a very cool camo hat with their Off-Grid logo.
The regular one, yeah.
So we'll be doing that in the offing and that'll be hashtag off grid.

08:01
So I want to start dug by saying thank you.
Because of your efforts, I was able to.
Purchased this beautiful heretic out the front.
This is an ex Manticore with a recurve blade.
I love this knife and it is a total luxury item.
Total luxury good that I wouldn't have been able to get myself and treat myself to if it if it weren't for knife rights.
Tell us what happened in Virginia July 1st.

08:31
So.
First, back up a little.
We had over the past six years passed 2 bills in Virginia, both of which were vetoed by two different governors.
So Virginia's been frustrating.
After the last election, Virginia's elections are off years.
We saw it as another opportunity to try and get it done this time, and it's important to recognize that while one house was Republican, the other house was Democrat, and we still managed to get a majority of.
Unanimous vote out or one house.

09:16
Like two votes negative and the other house.
And a governor who's willing to sign it.
And and.
Part of the reason that we were able to get the bipartisan support is it's criminal justice reform issue for those on the left.
It's a criminal justice and 2nd Amendment issue for those on the right.
And it in in Virginia, it was a huge jobs issue because Blue Ridge knives is in Virginia and they're the world's largest knife distributor and they couldn't sell automatic knives.
So, you know, all around it it we had good arguments and.

09:54
They finally all came together and we had a governor that was willing to sign it.
You know, every state's a little different, but, you know, six years of effort, 2 vetoes, we finally got it done.
It's it's.
Perfectly shows off what it takes to get things done.
You got to show up, and you gotta keep showing up until you get the job done.
And that's what we're all about.
We're about showing up at the State House.

10:18
We're about.
Persevering and and just.
I'm stubborn.
I don't give up very easily.
Well, thank you.
I think we.
I think I speak for all of us when I say that.

10:31
Why are automatic knives so controversial?
Goes back to.
An article in Women's Home Companion in the 1950s titled The Toy That Kills.
There's a copy on our website that sparked.
A. You know, a totally made-up crises about.
Switchblades.
Hollywood, Broadway both hopped on and started demonizing the knives, and eventually that resulted in the Federal Switchblade Act.

11:09
And you know the the restriction on automatic knives switchblades in 26 states.
So, you know, we've been.
We've been rolling back those since we first started in 2010 on our state advocacy in New Hampshire and.
Oftentimes it's just a question of explaining to people and showing legislators, you know, this knife doesn't open any quicker than all these other knives that are perfectly legal.
None of these knife laws made any sense.
They didn't make sense.
There were groups of gangs running around with switchblades, like West Side Story.

11:52
I mean that.
That's all just made-up.
Well, we ended up with Switchblade boss.
Yeah, yeah, just a moral panic of some sort over just this manufactured, manufactured moral panic.
Well, last gentleman who was just up was saying thank you and he finds it infuriating that states would would go to such lengths.
Alex Knives and such, says Doug Ritter.
How was it to get Missouri automatic knife legal?

12:22
I remember how it wasn't legal except.
In the home and then I saw it got legal.
How was the process?
How long did it take?
So, Missouri.
I believe was a two or three-year process.
It's very rare.

12:37
It happens that we get something done in one year.
And and we still have work to do in Missouri and and it's on the list.
So we'll get there.
You know, wherever we go, the process is similar.
We have to find a sponsor for the bill that believes in it.
We show up, we lobby for the bill, we have to get it through both houses, get the governor to sign it.
There's hearings, oftentimes multiple hearings and it's a process and sometimes.

13:10
We time out, you know, the legislative session is over before we can get it done or sometimes because of leadership in a in one house or the other of the legislature, we just can't get it moved.
But.
Again, we come back and and just keep hitting them with it and if they eventually pass it because they're tired of seeing us, that's OK. I'm happy with that.
I don't care.
But like in most states, the majority of our bills, including Missouri, passed with large bipartisan support.
And look, we're the only Second Amendment organization.
They got support from the other side of the aisle.

13:46
And I'm, I'm pretty pretty.
Jazzed about the fact that we can do that.
Nobody else can.
And the reason is fairly simple.
One is we're not guns.
And 2nd is legislators all know somebody, one of their constituents, that's gotten arrested for having the wrong knife.
And so it it's it's easy to make the criminal justice reform argument with these folks.

14:14
And so you know we have.
Seriously, anti gun legislators who sponsor our bills?
Because it it is a it is absolutely a nonpartisan issue.
We get bipartisan support because of that and we're a nonpartisan organization.
It's a human issue.
I mean it's in everyone's epigenetics to love knives, whether they know it or not.
It gets uncovered at some point, whether it's their their first experience with a good bread knife and a crusty loaf or you know, if they're on the job, what have you.

14:47
As Jen was just thanking you, being a a Kansas individual from Kansas, you help them out carrying knives for work and for hunting and for outdoors.
You know, it's it's just a kind of a crazy thing to restrict.
Now you said you keep coming back.
You keep coming back.
You keep getting up.
What's going on in Pennsylvania?
So Pennsylvania we have.

15:14
Been working in Pennsylvania for a decade.
We've had a number of bills run that didn't get anywhere this year.
Everything came together and it we were able to get through.
So a decades worth of effort this year got came together.
It got through the house.
Two O 2 to one, it got through the Senate.
Unanimously 50 to nothing and we got a very anti gun.

15:43
Governor to sign the bill and because we had such bipartisan support and because it wasn't guns and it it it will produce a lot of jobs and revenue for the state.
Because case of course is located in Pennsylvania and now they're going to be making automatic knives which they'll sell millions of dollars to those because we were able to get the law changed and.
Lest anyone think that this is easy, right up to the last minute that Bill almost died because we had one legislator in the Senate 1 Senator who was just determined to make a political statement, having nothing to do with knives, having to do with firearms and only because of our local lobbyists and
the pressure will be able to exert with our Senate sponsor, Senator Sharif Street from.
Philadelphia and the relationship that we had built with the governor staff, were we able to pressure this, this one senator to to stop trying to amend our bill into something else and get with the program?
And in literally the last few minutes everything came together.
We were able to get it done, but that that's what it takes, being there with people who understand the process.

17:06
You know, if you don't understand the rules, you can't play the game.
And we do understand the rules and.
We win, more often than not, one of one of the amazing things about Pennsylvania.
Is that was our 40th Bill signed in 26 states in 13 years.
I mean, I don't think any of us when we started, when I started knife rights would have ever thought that 13 years later, well.
15 years later.
That we would be sitting here with 40 bills signed.

17:41
I mean, that's just, that's pretty incredible.
That is amazing.
Well, one thing that kniferights.org, the website does besides fill you in on legislation and and what's going on with knife rights in terms of activism.
I don't like that word.
But you know what I mean is.
Activists, we're an advocacy organization.
That's what I was looking for.

18:06
Advocacy.
That's that's what we're all about.
Well, you also have features on your website that might be useful to some viewers of this show.
It's no secret.
I love tactical knives.
I've done a lot of martial arts with knives.
I think it's fun.

18:20
I am not a *** ***.
I don't go out and get in fights or, you know, it's just a hobby for me.
But it's a hobby I would like to continue with unimpeded.
And also, Umm, you know, I am someone who carries a knife.
Thinking of it as a self-defense option also so.
Kniferights.org has a great article on what to do and what not to do.
If you're if you find yourself in a self-defense situation and you have to talk to the you know and and you're now you're going through the legal system and there's a pneumonic called SAC SAC.

18:57
Remain silent, ask for an attorney and do not consent to any search.
Are self-defense cases with knives.
Seen differently than self-defense cases with guns.
Well, sometimes, like like everything else, it depends.
I mean, we've we've had some self-defense cases involving knives that we've been involved with in one degree or another.
And, you know, it's important to remember that the Second Amendment doesn't say anything about firearms.
The Second Amendment says arms.

19:33
So, you know, knives or arms that are covered by the 2nd Amendment.
And generally speaking, particularly after the the Brown decision that we had this year from the Supreme Court, it's very hard to make a case that you shouldn't be allowed to carry a knife and.
I think all the legitimate self-defense cases that we've been involved in.
With one exception, all ended up going away before.
They ended up in front of a judge once.
We help the attorney understand the circumstances because very few attorneys are well versed in knife laws.
Even self-defense attorneys are usually, you know, dealing with something else.

20:23
Usually these cases go away once the prosecutor understands he's not going to win the case.
Now, if it's not a legitimate self-defense, well, yeah.
Don't use your knife when you're not allowed to.
I mean, and that's important and and and we have another article on the website that's all about what to do when you actually have to use your knife in self-defense and what circumstances it's allowed.
And you need to understand what the law is in your state for self-defense because it varies by state and what's acceptable in one state may not be acceptable in another.
Um, the last thing you want to do?
Is use any sort of weapon?

21:05
I don't care whether it's a knife, a gun, or a stone.
In self-defense, ideally you come up with some manner to solve the problem without having to because it's it's an incredible pain and struggle and.
It can be really, really expensive which is why we work with U.S. law shield and you can join U.S. law shield through knife rights and get a discount because we wanted our Members, just like so many gun owners to have the backup of knowing that if they should use their knife or firearm or anything
else in self-defense that they pay, they pay.
Excuse me?
They dial an 800 number.
They get a lawyer who's well versed in the law and there is a limit to what they're ever going to pay.

21:59
They're going to take care of your defense.
I mean, you can go, you can be in the right and go bankrupt defending yourself.
That's not really a win.
That's not a win for anybody other than maybe you don't go to jail as win, but not going to jail and becoming bankrupt is is not really a win.
So we were very pleased to partner with the US law Shield to offer folks an option.
Uh, whether it's a knife, a gun, a baseball bat, or whatever, if, God forbid, you find yourself in those circumstances.
Was reading that article too.

22:33
And I was thinking, yeah, man, I I don't have an attorney.
Like, I know that's something I could say like I wanna talk to my attorney but you know, who's that?
You know, is it John forbids the first guy I find in the, you know, in the Yellow Pages.
But having this is going to be an A yeah, that's right.
But, but that's the thing, you know, we say ask for your attorney.
Very few of us have a criminal law attorney that we can turn to.
Yeah.

22:59
So you know, you're going to have to call your attorney and get him to get a a criminal law attorney on.
I mean it's, it's just, it's awkward at best.
If you join U.S. law shield and there's some others uscca, you know, we partnered with U.S. law shield because at the time they were the only one who covered eight things other than guns used in self-defense.
I mean, they don't care.
Use your fists.
self-defense.
Legitimate.

23:27
They're going to defend you.
If if you are going to think that somehow or other you may use.
Your knife, your gun, whatever.
In self-defense, you owe it to your family to carry some sort of insurance that's going to protect you.
Because.
You know, defending yourself will bankrupt you unless you're awfully, awfully rich, you know, all you have to do is look at at what happened with Rittenhouse or with the the folks who are standing on their stoop with their firearms.
You just do not want to be put in that situation and have to pay for an attorney.

24:08
There's some really good attorneys out there but they're not cheap.
So when you do U.S. law shield with us we're one of the other ones.
You know you have an attorney who's going to protect you and you don't have to write the check and and that's that's that's part of being a responsible gun owner knife owner if you're going to carry for whatever reason or simply if you you know if if you.
Don't carry, but you have a shotgun in your house because someone might be an intruder.
You need to have the protection of one of these legal protection outfits.
And as I say, knife right signed up with U.S. law shield, we get a small dollar contribution when you sign up with them and you get a discount because you came through us.
So all that's on the the home page of the of kniferights.org.

25:00
This conversation makes me nervous because it's one of those conversations that you if all goes wrong, you remember, you think back to I remember Doug told me about that.
And because yeah, that that in if you're casually and nonchalantly carrying knives like I do and I shouldn't say that I. That doesn't mean I don't respect them, but I, you know, it's it's a part of my, my thing and and I do think of them as a as a self-defense option.
Well, to not have that backed up is, yeah, it's it's going to be nerve wracking until, you know, maybe I check that out or I stopped carrying knives and I know that's not going to happen.
You know, that's not an option for a lot of us.
Yeah, yeah.
I put my pants on, my knives go in my pocket, and that's it just happens automatically.
You have to remember if I'm flying up.

25:55
Nope, not today.
But, but.
For most of us, carrying a knife is just automatic.
But if you're carrying knife and you're even thinking this might be my self-defense weapon or my last ditch in self-defense, I mean you need to protect yourself and your family.
It's not very expensive.
You know, given what?
Some places charge for coffee.

26:22
It's the cost of a few coffees a year, right?
So I I think it's a worthwhile investment and responsible for anyone with the family.
How?
Umm, OK, so uh, just the ultimate steel wrapped up a couple months back.
We're now doing knives live, but how does one get involved with knife rights?
Become a member, donate throughout the regular throughout the year so you know right now we've got knives live going on.
You guys are great.

26:53
You can go to to divewrites.org/donate, make a $10 donation or greater, and for every $10 you.
Get a chance at right now five, possibly 6 grand prizes, three of which include your choice of one of my RSK folders.
You can join it's $35 for an annual membership.
For that $35, knives live 2022 will give you four chances in the drawing.
We have our annual ultimate Steel as as you noted that will be coming up next spring.
We just wrapped it up.
I think I shipped last knife out just a few weeks ago.

27:39
And and.
The other thing that folks knew is, you know holidays are coming up.
If you shop on Amazon or you wanna get good deals on good shop, you can sign up using our registration and night Frights Foundation as as your partner in this and we get a portion of everything you sell, we get, we get a really nice sized check from Amazon every quarter from folks who have done
exactly that, who spend money on Amazon or spend money with good shop.
And with Amazon we get a half a percent of every penny you spend on any of the the the products that are identified with being part of this and and that adds up to a lot of money I mean.
This is the way you can help us without even.
Trying very hard.

28:34
Sorry to interrupt you, Doug.
Are those just knives, knife purchases on Amazon or anything?
Anything.
Anything.
OK, just gotta have little tag on it and all the.
On our home page there's a link go there and explains how you sign up on Amazon for Amazon.
Smile with us as as the organization that that gets the benefit.

28:59
Umm, uh, just backing up a little bit.
I didn't have a chance to talk to you at ohh there.
There we go.
I didn't have a chance to talk to you at Blade show this year or afterward, just switching gears for a second.
What was what was the most?
Exciting thing you saw there.
What, what about the blade show this year?

29:18
You got like, Oh my God, that was 100,000 years ago.
Bob sure feels like that, honestly.
You know, blade show for us is.
Or for me is mostly about meeting with manufacturers, talking to.
Makers about donating knives for ultimate seal.
It's just a blur.
Honest to God.

29:45
I I couldn't tell you any particular knife that stood out to me because I you know, when I first started going blade show before night rides, it was a lot of fun.
Now it's mostly work.
I mean it's a hard you know, it's four days of 4 1/2 days of of just slogged through and meeting as many people as we can and talking to as many makers as as as we can.
You know, if we're going to raise money in the ultimate seal, we got to have the custom makers and the manufacturers donating knives and.
That's work that's I spend.
I spend the vast majority of my time not working on getting bills passed, but raising the money so that we can work on getting bills passed, pay for my travel and Todd rather our our lobbyist travel.
I mean, we both travel 100,000 miles a year.

30:41
Umm.
Unfortunately, that costs a lot of money.
Yeah, we had James Moore just saying hello and thank you for all your work for the industry and we had a couple of other people also complementing you and thanking you.
I appreciate it very, very much.
Yeah, I I think that that is a cool thing to see at is just how everyone seems to know you and everyone seems to be appreciative at least in that in that context, you know?
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's humbling that we've gotten to that point.
When we started, when I started knife rights, everyone, including my wife, thought it was crazy.

31:24
The vast majority of people told me I was nuts and there was no way we were going to get any, you know, knife ban repealed.
And and it was hard.
It was hard the first few years because we had no track record.
Now with 40 bills signed, we have a track record.
If you donate to knife rights, whether you donate as a as a knife maker, knife manufacturer or.
Just the guy donating a few bucks, you know, you're making an investment in the organization that gets things done.
And look, there's not, you know, there's Todd, me and my wife.

32:04
I mean, that's the organization.
That's it.
And you know, and and and even watching the nickels, you know, we end.
We have to raise at least.
$300,000 a year and probably we need to raise more than that next year because our expenses are going up.
And so it's it's both getting harder to raise the money because everyone's facing you know, the the hidden tax of inflation right now and it's costing more for us to do things.
So it's a, you know, it's a double hit.

32:43
But we're gonna do our damndest to continue.
I mean, there are 12 states already on our target list.
We'll be going to National Assembly of Sportsman's Caucuses summit here in a couple weeks.
And Bozeman.
We hope to pick up a couple more states there.
And you know, depending upon what happens next Tuesday, there may be some more opportunities both in states that we haven't quite been successful in or as successful as we'd like to be and in states which up till now have been just basically, let's not bother, let's talk about New Jersey.
Oh my gosh, so.

33:26
New Jersey recent in in reaction to the Bruin decision by the Supreme Court, which basically said that that the state can't subjectively prevent you from carrying a firearm outside the home.
It can't put up barriers that are subjective.
A number of states anti gun states have been passing legislation most of it totally unconstitutional based on the the opinion in in in Bruins in attempt to keep people from being able to practically carry OK we'll give you a permit but we're not going to let you carry anywhere and New Jersey because
they don't want me second bad to anybody decided not only we're going to do this for firearms they were going to do it for weapons.
Not just firearms, not a hand, but weapons.
Well, under New Jersey law, a knife is considered a weapon if you're carrying it.
So all of a sudden we were faced with a situation where anyone who is carrying a a a pocket knife or any kind of knife in significant portions of the state.

34:40
Just going about their business could potentially be arrested, and New Jersey is the only state in the nation where every knife violation is a felony.
So we're talking about carrying your pocket knife and suddenly be facing a felony?
And not just pocket knives.
I mean, just as a side.
You could be carrying a baseball bat, you could be carrying a screwdriver or crowbar, and you could be subject to being arrested for carrying a weapon.
Working with the the New Jersey affiliate of the NRA, we were very good friends with them and Scott back there, we were able to get the Senate.
To amend the bill to take the the weapons part out and so.

35:30
Now it's a question of getting the Assembly to amend their bill similarly.
And you know, I think we have an opportunity to do that because that would that would have been just terrible.
That would have been just terrible.
And the reason we were able to accomplish that was the years of working in New York and New Jersey with people there and making the connections.
So when this happened.
We were in a position to say, hey we got to stop this and we had the people and the connections to you know so far looks like we will be able to do that.
That does that doesn't happen just.

36:13
Ohh, something's bad.
Let's walk in and fix it in someplace like New Jersey, New York.
It takes years to build those relationships.
And yeah, we've been working very hard at that for many years.
They're just dead set on it.
We have a carry from Off-Grid knives.
We're going to talk to him in just a minute.

36:29
But before we do, we had one question I wanted to ask you, Jim, could you bring that one back up?
I believe his name was my name is just Bill and he wanted to know how do you know when to quit on a state and which ones to chase and.
Pursue so.
Quit is not part of our vocabulary.
I mean, it just says.
We may step back for a year or two, wait for a change in the political.
You know, who's governor or what, who's in charge of the particular House of the legislature.

37:05
But yeah, quit.
We don't ever quit.
That's not.
That's not.
In our makeup, quit, quit just isn't there and as far as when we know to do something.
I. It's it could be any combination of things.
But.

37:22
It starts with finding a sponsor or.
For a sponsor.
Seeing what we've done elsewhere, they file a bill and we go knock on the door and say, hey, we saw you filed this knife bill and oh by the way, you need to fix this and amend that and we will work our butts off with you to get the bill passed there.
There are a lot of times that a legislator files a bill because a constituent has asked him.
With no real intention of following it through.
They just want to be able to tell their constituent, well, I filed the bill, you know, it didn't go anywhere.
Well, it's not going to go anywhere unless there's someone there lobbying it and that's what we're for.

38:03
And sometimes they file a bill and it's poorly written and we need to amend it because of that.
And sometimes they file a bill and it it, it's like the dip their toe in the water and we'll go like really, we think you can get it all done.
And Wisconsin was a perfect.
Example, in Wisconsin, a bill was filed to repeal their switch to allow people to carry a switchblade with a concealed carry license.
And we got hold of the sponsor, we said no.
That's not acceptable.
You don't need permission from the government to carry your knife, I said.

38:40
But this is what we think we can do.
And they're like, Oh my God, that'll never get done here.
And we're like, we did it here, we did it.
This state, we did in this state, and we were finally able to convince them to go along with us, and by the time we were done.
We got rid of all of wisconsins knife bands and pass a knife law preemption in the state which got rid of all the local knife beds.
Yeah, those.
Those local knife bands are murder.

39:06
Yeah, I mean, you cross a line on a map and suddenly you're breaking the law.
I mean, that's crazy.
But in order to stop that, we have to pass knife law preemption because we can't afford to go out and fight every little townships knife laws.
We we need to do it.
Economically, if you will, at the state level.
Well, someone who has no doubt benefited not only in his own collection but in his own business from the work you've done with knife rights is Cary Orefice of Off-Grid knives.
Cary, how's it going, Sir?

39:43
Hey, hey, guys.
Hey, it's good to have you here and I want to thank you for.
You too.
I want to thank you for the, uh, the giveaway packages.
Uh, you sent in uh, greatly appreciated and we talk about Off-Grid knives a lot on this channel and I appreciate that.
Well, it's only because I love them so much, you know?
I I usually just can't stop blabbing about stuff when I'm enthusiastic about them.

40:11
But what do you.
So you sent me, uh, to to give away.
And so sadly, it will be moving on.
But you sent me this beautiful new outdoors knife.
This is a a V2 of an outdoors knife.
Tell us about this.
Yeah.

40:27
So that's the newest alpha dog.
It's called.
So I think you have the Stinger XL.
It's the exact same color combination.
There it is.
Umm.
So.

40:42
It was so successful for the Stinger excel and people are really liking that combination of colors.
But it was a nice addition because I have just the regular black handle stone wash, then we have the full blackout, and then we added the coyote scales with the Grey wash and so it's a it's a lethal combo.
The I used to have an alpha dog and I gave it to my brother, so it's still in the family, but mine didn't have this same handle it didn't have.
This a Coke bottle contouring, yeah, that's a that's a new addition.
What what are the things you improved on this V2 it is.
So you know it's all about feedback and getting those reviews, talking to customers and little by little making notes and then when we go into that production to make a, you know, a new run, always want to improve it as best we can.
And so some of the we made it a little more refined and that's basically what we do every single time we come out with a new one, we're fine it just a little bit more.

41:43
Get that feedback again and then you know move forward.
Do they like it?
Do they not?
But you can tell from this handle slightly more comfortable than say the original and you know a little contoured on the sides and just a little more grippy, I guess.
Yeah, I noticed that same thing on the Off-Grid.
I mean on the Backcountry the when I got the coyote Backcountry the handle is more comfortable.
So a another V2 improvement.

42:11
But I've noticed on all of the folders.
Um, you're listening.
Uh, you listened about the pocket clips, so all the screws are flat, everything is recessed, there's no hassling the pocket.
And and that's the kind of.
I have the new this is this is a prototype the.
The Viper that people really like.
So I made.

42:34
A new version of the Viper.
So this one's going to be coming out probably in a couple months, something like that.
So, yeah, so it's always trying to improve and, you know, build upon what you already did and take the feedback.
You're out in California, right?
Yeah.
Ohh.
Talk about knife laws.

42:52
Geez, yeah.
What, what's it like running a knife business out there?
It's, I mean, because I, you know, ship all over the place, all over the country and and and some other countries as well.
I mean, I it hasn't hurt me too much.
It's really Amazon that has been a pain in the *** because they freak out over knives, even if it's a camping knife and so forth.
So they restrict shipping into certain jurisdictions.
New York is a big one.

43:25
So I have all these emails from New Yorkers, you know, going crazy.
Why can't I buy your knife, this and that, I said call Doug so.
So basically you know it's and then I guess the what I tried to do is then I put a legal carry category on my website so all my knives so that people can go.
If you have a problem with it, we let them know search on the website.
We have a sorting tool and you click legal carry and boom all the legal carry.
You know it depends on your jurisdiction and you got as you guys know but we figure 3 inches and below we'll just call that legal carry for.
Simplicity, right, right.

44:08
Will be wants to know any other new items from Off-Grid we can look forward to.
Yes, absolutely.
So the Tracker X was a actually my very first fixed blade.
This is going to be the new Tracker X. So it's a full flat grind compared to the first model and then again taking that feedback really contoured the edges of the micarta.
And made it way more ergonomic.
So one of the complaints was it, it was almost level on the bottom, kind of had a little bit of contouring for your hand but really dropped this down in the back.
So it really locks into your hand very, very well and then you know, change the grind a little bit.

44:56
It's it comes down to a really thin edge, which is nice, but yet it still has the, you know, almost 5 inch thick, you know, stock and then.
People love the alpha dog sheath, right?
So it does, yes.
Snaps in with authoritie.
Exactly.
So basically it's the similarity is is we have this attachment, we saw this separately as well, but this will come with the Tracker X, which we didn't have before and then we added I I love this and I'm going to put this on all my sheets is this.
You have a thumb, like a thumb push right here.

45:33
So when you're standing there with your belt.
You just simply push it with your thumbs.
So that little lip on there is to me, I love it.
I mean once, once I did that for the alpha dog, that's it.
I'm going to do that on all of them.
So great feedback on that.
And so the new Tracker X is coming out.

45:52
Jeez, everything's delayed these days.
But, you know, probably before Christmas.
I'll say that before Christmas.
Yeah.
Alright.
So let me, let me, let me detail the next, the next giveaway.
And people, people watching, please.

46:07
What am I trying?
I'm all stuttering too much coffee today.
Put hashtag off grid in the comment and then and then we'll do 2 drawings and give these two packages away.
But the second package is a folder, and this has been a blockbuster hit.
For you.
And it's no wonder I love this knife.
This is the Stinger XL, this one is mine.

46:27
As mentioned, we are giving away a blackout version, this one you've seen on the channel 1,000,000 times.
Such a great knife.
That's a four inch blade.
It's evocative of a bayonet.
It has a very classic sort of combat classic look, but it's got these nice contoured scales.
So we're going to be giving this beauty away and this, this is a best tech production right and we're actually, it's not.
The Taiwan so you know I have I have best tech and then I use Taiwan for all my fixed blades but I have them do I wanted this one like crazy over built and I think you can see that when you put it in your hand.

47:05
It's strong, it's tough.
So I use my Taiwan.
Partners to build that one.
So that's Taiwanese knife.
Beautiful.
Alright, so so then this goes with the with the classic logo.
Funny because the the retro logo is new, but I love it.

47:25
I love them both.
And now I have both.
You you sent you sent the hat you're wearing in the box and I I kind of nicked it.
So sorry everybody but so be sure to put hashtag off grid in in the, in the in the chat and in 5 minutes, 5 minutes we're going to give those away.
So Doug.
You know, in in a way in the knife industry, earned his bones or made his bones making products for helicopter survival kits and putting helicopter survival kits together.
This is kind of, you know, Cary, you seem to be a man of adventure as well.

48:09
I'm not sure if you're a helicopter pilot, but I know you've done a lot of crazy stuff, gone to a lot of far-flung locations.
Doug, tell me about a little bit about how that coalesced.
You're flying and and all of that into actually making knives and becoming a claim for it.
OK. So, so first of all just to correct you, they are aviation survival kits, not helicopters survival kits got the the majority of them end up in fixed wing aircraft.
So.
Way, way, way way back when.
I started writing for the aviation consumer and aviation safety.

48:52
This was like, I don't know, 30 odd years ago when I got out of the building business and.
One of the first articles I ever wrote for aviation safety was about a Survival kit I had built and put together for myself after a lot of research and years of of backpacking and and being in the outdoors.
And it was a big hit and I ended up starting a quick to survive on the web, which is still there, though I don't do much with it, which was sort of Consumer Reports for survival gear and you know.
Second only to your brain, your number 2 survivals tool is a knife.
And.
As a result of that, I was able to make connections with most of the major knife manufacturers.
At that point I really wasn't involved with the custom knife side of things, but became friendly with with all the major production knife manufacturers.

49:56
And and that sort of, you know, when when the Wall Street Journal ran their terrible, terrible article about evil, evil tactical knives in 2006 and and I got ******.
And said, you know, we're not going to turn out like Europe.
You know at that point I had the connections and I'd already started in with my own line of knives with bench made manufacturing.
So you know, it all fed into that.
I still do aviation survival kits.
In fact I just finished up a run of nine of them and you know they're they're.
They're still highly regarded and I enjoy putting together it's it's, it's sort of so you so you design and and and and and you'll relate to this, you'll you design knives to be used.

50:56
I mean, that's why we designed knives.
We want people to use them.
Exactly.
You design survival kits in hopes that nobody will ever have to use it.
But if they do so, it's weird.
On the one hand, I sell stuff I want people to use every day.
On the other hand, I sell stuff that I hope nobody will ever use.

51:17
It's a weird dichotomy.
I'm I'm holding carries a Cayman Excel, one of my favorite off grids, but that's kind of the suffix for most of your knives.
But this is especially one that I love.
Because it's got to me, it's got, it's got the fighter Bowie thing, but it's also I know where the Cayman was your inspiration, Cayman the crocodilian animal down in the South America.
So you're tell me the your design ethos.
So.
The Cayman specifically um you know I I'm a surfer I surf all over the place been all over the place and so one of the places we would go to all the time is Costa Rica Nicaragua and down in you know Central America and Cayman or they don't call them crocodiles they don't call them all get their

52:12
Cayman that are in Central America and always the best waves are in the river mouth and where do the where do the came and hang out river mouth and they disguise.
Themselves as logs.
So you have these big like it almost.
You can't really tell what's what's a game and and what's and so you're out in the lineup and waves are breaking and then you know guys are always looking around and then when you come in you you always look around so you're always on edge of these things and then you'd see him sitting by the thing.
So I always have a great close up look and it just hit me like I got to make a knife and and just dedicated to the game and because you know.
They were fierce and scary.
And the shape is the shape looks just like exactly.

53:01
So I wanted to really replicate as close as I could and then drop a Bowie on there.
So I've got two men of adventure at who designed knives for such for such adventures on the show.
That's pretty cool at one time, I think.
Now let's give away these knives.
I think we've we've waited long enough.
These packages are just dying to get out of my man cave because if not they will be assimilated.
And absorbed and we can't do that.

53:29
All right.
So Cary, since since you'll you'll actually let's do a countdown.
Cary, go ahead.
Please do a countdown from 3. 321 fire.
Alright.
Alright, so this is for the alpha dog fixed blade and the long sleeve T-shirt with the retro logo.
The winner is Zemans EDC.

53:56
Zemans EDC.
This is now yours Sir.
Happily presumably Sir, happily.
Get this out in the mail to you on Monday and we'll we'll arrange your get.
Just send your address to the knife junkie.com slash at Gmail.
That'll do it.
OK, so now we're going to do another one.

54:18
Right now and and Doug since uh since this is all going to help knife rights.
Doug we'll be doing the final countdown on this day and today it's for the Stinger Excel I don't mean today I mean this giveaway right here is for the Stinger XL by the way I love the chamfers on it and and how contoured and comfortable to handle is.
I forgot to mention that earlier and there's a pocket tab filler or pocket you know that's that's also new OK so this.
With the hat, Jim, can you bring up the the random number generator please?
And as Jim readies the random number generator, I will flip this sucker open and closed a few times and and let you know that it is indeed drop shutty.
And that is the question.
All right, let's do this, shall we?

55:16
Alrighty, alrighty, Mr Ritter.
Let her rip.
321. Let's see.
Who will it be?
We are narrowing in.
It's slowing down.
Ohh boy.

55:33
With you real quick.
Congratulations, wicked reels again.
Send me an e-mail with your address.
That's the knife junkie.com at Gmail will do and and I will get these out to you on Monday.
These are your.
These are your items now.
And now I can.

55:51
Now I can clean my head.
Well, this one is not.
This one is mine.
You will be getting the black one.
I do not want to put that in the box by accident.
This is the one.
This is the one.

56:00
He's getting.
Boom, there it is.
So congratulations everybody.
Nicely done.
Well, OK, so let's talk about what's in the offing coming up after this.
You know, we're going to continue knives live at the 3:00 PM central.
We're doing everything central and 3:00 PM central.

56:21
We have grateful panic knife reviews.
That's John.
He'll be coming on here.
Then after that 4:00 o'clock, we have Kev left, the EDC.
We have Zach.
Zach stuff at 5:00 PM central Standard Time.
And then wrapping things up, we have Jared and Kara.

56:36
Knives, knives at 6:00 PM central.
Now, Doug, you're going to be going back on another feed, is that right?
I'll be on with Zach, and I'll be on with the.
Needs dives as well.
So awesome finishing things off.
Yeah this has been you guys have been incredible.
I've said this before, but last year you guys had this idea got put together.

57:01
It was the most successful non knife rights organized fundraiser we've ever been involved in.
And.
By.
By every estimate, this year is going to break that record and.
You know, as I mentioned, we I can have all the passion in the world, but without the support of donors, knife makers, knife manufacturers.
We can't do anything.
So the generosity of the folks that are watching.

57:34
Making donations, joining up as members.
It's huge.
It is absolutely huge.
You are making a difference.
You are allowing us to continue to forge a sharper future for for all Americans.
Well, I I for one.
I'm honored to be a part of it this year.

57:50
I was not last year.
And man a big shout out to Shane Gables and to and to Kev Lefty EDC and to John Evans and and and and others.
And their their efforts.
I mean it's really amazing how they heard it all these cats together now.
I know I know everyone was excited to be a part of it so it wasn't probably wasn't that hard to get people but man I I really applaud the effort and I'm I'm honored to be a part of it this year.
Super.
Yes, yes, indeed.

58:26
So, so, Cary, when so we're looking forward to two new models possibly by Christmas now, now you're on the hook now because because because 3 1/2 minutes to fill, I'm going to, I'm going to grill you.
No.
So, so that's better you than me.
Yeah, I like this.
So.
So are you experiencing delays in getting stuff?
Well, just manufacturing wise, you know, when you're dealing with overseas stuff it, you know where I should have had it, say, a month ago and now it's just always.

58:57
Yeah.
So there's delays, it's typical.
It's not unusual.
But you know, I want to get it out there, especially before the Christmas rush.
So that's my goal and you'll hear about it for sure.
I'll help you get the word out, no doubt.
So if someone could, I'm not sure if they have already, but someone put grateful panics link in the.

59:20
I'm sure it's been up there plenty of times.
But please if someone would put grateful panics link in the comments so this party can continue from here on to John's site.
I had an interesting conversation with John once about the Grateful Dead I had.
I only went to one concert ages and ages and ages ago and I asked if he was there and and then I realized it was probably before he was born.
He's a much younger man than I am.
And and I also learned on a different note.
I learned that.

59:53
Two of my neighbors that I've become friends with over the last five years were also at that one random show in Ohio that I went to.
So everyone go to the grateful Panic channel and continue with knives Live 2022. It's always fun over there and and it should be, it should be awesome.
Now Doug will be appearing again at at 5:00 PM Central Standard Time.
Still can't get used to that, Shane but hey man, you put it together.
So you get to choose the time zone and and then again at 6:00 PM central Standard Time at Jared and Kara's channel at Nieves Knives.
And you can subscribe by clicking or ZAP in the QR code right there that Jim so handily put up.
I think that's cool.

01:00:42
And then also remember about these grand prizes.
There are five grand prizes that you could win from donating tonight.
And they have a staggering amount of like, really incredible knives.
I mean, I'm not gonna go through them.
But look, here's one box.
And that those are all sweet knives and flashlight thrown in there.
Or torch.

01:01:03
However you guys like to say it.
You you flashlight junkies, look at this.
Look at these grand prizes.
These are insane.
And Kev of Lefty EDC has been managing all of this.
God love him and he will be shipping all of these out that cannot be inexpensive.
So.

01:01:20
You know, let's make lots of knives.
Yeah.
And as Cary can probably as well.
Yeah.
It's not inexpensive to ship a lot of knives.
And it's a pain in the **** honestly.
True.

01:01:33
All right, everybody.
Well, I want to.
I want to thank Doug Ritter.
Thank you so much for coming on, and thank you for having me.
Nice to meet you.
Carry this.
Yeah, you too, Doug.

01:01:42
We appreciate your work, obviously.
So keep kicking ***.
I'll make a phone call to you as soon as I get.
Next week sounds great.
Alright.
And Cary, it's been great having you.
Everybody go to grateful panic.

01:01:58
It's been awesome.
Thank you so much.
And for Jim, we're working his magic behind the Switcher.
I'm Bob DeMarco saying don't take dull for an answer.
If you're a knife junkie, you're always in the market for a new knife, and we've got you covered.
For the latest weekly knife deals, be sure to visit the knife junkie.com/knives.
Through our special affiliate relationships, we bring you weekly knife specials on your favorite knives, help support the show, and save money on a new knife shop at the knife junkie.com/knives.

01:02:30
That's the knife junkie.com/knives.
It's always great talking with Doug Ritter and I. I'm always really enjoy speaking with Cary too, but it was really good getting them together and kind of seeing how one benefits the other and one one hand washes the other.
Uh what a great show.
So happy to have both of those guys on here.
Please be sure to go to kniferights.org.
Not only use it to keep yourself up to date on knife laws in your state and the states surrounding, but also handy tips about what to do if you need to if you get busted with a knife or or what have you.
So go to knife.

01:03:07
Rights.org and also donate become a member.
You will be happy you did alright for Jim working his magic behind the Switcher.
My name is Bob DeMarco and it's a pleasure talking with you about knives, so until next time, please don't take dull for an answer.
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Review thepodcast.com for show notes for today's episode, additional resources and to listen to past episodes of visit our website, the Knife Junkie.
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01:03:51
And if you have a question or comment, e-mail them to Bob at the knife junkie.com or call our 24/7 listener line at 724-466-4487 and you may hear your comment or question answered on an upcoming episode of the Knife Junkie podcast.