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Announcer [00:00:03]:
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast, your weekly dose of knife news and information about knives and knife collecting. Here's your host, Bob the knife junkie DeMarco

Bob DeMarco [00:00:15]:
DeMarco. Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast. I'm Bob DeMarco. On this edition of the show, I'm speaking with primitive survival specialist and ancient knife maker, Donnie Dust. Now when I say ancient knifemaker, I mean the knives are ancient, not Donnie. I first got sucked into his addictive and vicariously appealing content on YouTube when one of his many flintknapping video shorts dropped in my feed. Thank you, YouTube algorithm. It was a close-up contemplative 60 seconds of some anonymous rock transforming into a perfect stone knife blade through various strikes with other rocks, pressure breaks with a well worn elk bone, and other percussive micro adjustments.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:00]:
With a built in love of knives and a depth of their history as our first tool, I was absolutely hooked on Donnie's work. We'll talk all about what it takes to survive an ancient situation. Who knows? We might need to know that sooner rather than later, and talk about how he learned all this cool stuff. But first, be sure to like, comment, subscribe, hit that notification bell, and share the show with a friend. Also, you can download the show to your favorite podcast app. If you wanna help support the show, you can do so on Patreon. Quickest way to do that is head over to the knifejunkie.com/patreon. Again, it's the knifejunkie.com/patreon.

Announcer [00:01:36]:
Adventure delivered. Your monthly subscription for hand picked outdoor, survival, EDC, and other cool gear from our expert team of outdoor professionals. The knifejunkie.com/battlebox.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:49]:
Donnie, welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast, sir.

Donnie Dust [00:01:52]:
Right on. Thank you so much for having me, Bob. I appreciate it.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:55]:
It's a pleasure. Before we get started, I wanna congratulate you on your new book, Wild Wisdom. That is out by Publishing giant, Simon and Schuster. I was I gotta say, I was shocked to see who was publishing it. Congratulations on that.

Donnie Dust [00:02:10]:
Thank you so much. Yeah. I was, it was it was quite a process. I spent a lot of time inside, which is kind of new for me. But, yeah, it was it was a great book, and people are really enjoying it. So yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:02:22]:
I didn't think of that, spending a lot of time inside writing, obviously, probably sitting in front of a computer, something you probably, had to be chained down to do. Did you have anyone helping you editing? I'm sure you did, but, I mean, what was that process like?

Donnie Dust [00:02:36]:
Yeah. So, I mean, the entire process I mean, my my first two books were self published, and for this third one, it was a whole new experience working with a, you know, an editor and kind of a whole publishing team. And, for me, I I kinda sought out the guidance of kind of a writing coach that I could kinda bounce ideas off of, because there's, you know, the editor that's lined with, you know, the publishing house. But I just sought out, like, an individual by the name of Gary, and, he was just he was helping me. So I would write, like, a chapter, and then I would send it to him. And he'd be like, I have no idea what you're trying to say here, but I think I got an idea. So he was kind of my my writing muse, my writing coach in his process. And, you know, over the course of pretty much a fall into a winter, I would just bounce emails off him, and he he was he gave me some really sage advice when it came to writing because I enjoy writing, but I never really had to, write at this level on this capacity.

Donnie Dust [00:03:32]:
So it was a whole new challenge, but it was worth it.

Bob DeMarco [00:03:35]:
Well, I guess that's the real challenge, to get a modern, person to understand some of these more primitive ideas in the in the briefest way possible. You have a a really interesting sort of tagline or logo that I noticed on your web site and that I've seen, from time to time on your IG, which is creativity is your first survival tool. As we get into this conversation about primitive survival techniques and just primitive almost doesn't do it justice. It Yeah. Just basic and primeval. In any case, what does that mean? Creativity is your first survival tool.

Donnie Dust [00:04:13]:
Well, I think, you know, for for a lot of folks that venture out in the bush, whether they are practitioners of survival in this traditional form of bushcraft or primitive skills or earth skills, when you really think about all the different challenges one might face, you're really using your creative problem solving process to address those challenges. So if it is building a fire or a shelter or finding water, yes, you have those kind of core knowledge, skills, and abilities, but sometimes you are leveraging your creative mind and your creative approach to really addressing those problems. So it's kind of a it's kind of a unique thing where I like to instill in people that everybody is creative. Everything you see around us, we have made, we've created, and you can take that and do that same sort of kind of approach out in the natural world and get some pretty amazing results.

Bob DeMarco [00:05:03]:
Well, what, give us an example of someone out in the wilderness being creative. I, in my job, I find that, when I create a process to make something easy and repeatable, I feel like that's a a good way to put my creative, mind to work. But give us an example of, in a survival situation from your perspective, this

Donnie Dust [00:05:25]:
Yeah. I I think one of the easiest ways to, kind of approach that creative process is to spend one night in the bush knowing you're gonna spend a second night. And that first night in the bush, you're probably gonna be cold. You might get these weird air pockets that are moving through your shelter, or maybe you're laying on the ground, or you just don't have enough things really to kinda keep you warm. And through that creative process and that kind of analyzing the situation you were facing the night before, what steps can you take to make yourself warmer, to give yourself a little bit more shielding from, you know, cold wind or potential rain. And it's just it's problem solving. It's using that idea of saying, alright. I was completely uncomfortable laying on the ground, and my my my hips and my back were cold all night.

Donnie Dust [00:06:10]:
Well, what can I use? What can I do to improve upon that situation? So whether it's cutting more grass, collecting, you know, pine boughs or leaves to create a little bit of padding, you're using your creative. It doesn't require any sort of extensive training to solve a simple problem, and the bush will present all sorts of problems. But in that creative sort of process, you can really address your needs, I mean, with not a lot of tools. I mean, for someone who's very minimal in ways, some of my biggest challenges are just solving the simple problems using what the natural environment, you know, ultimately provides.

Bob DeMarco [00:06:48]:
Coming from someone who, did did very little out in the bush. I never did anything in the bush. What am I talking about? You know, I'm a I I grew up suburban, went urban for 20 odd years, and now I'm suburban again and a and a dad. And I find myself watching videos like yours. And, there it it it's it taps into something, especially you were talking about making yourself warm. And I happen to know that you just from watching your videos, you know how to start fire, like, in in any condition. Yeah. Tell me about a little bit about the hierarchy of survival tools.

Bob DeMarco [00:07:22]:
It seems like fire might be primo.

Donnie Dust [00:07:25]:
Yeah. You know, I always kinda say if if you're if you're operating in any sort of environment, I kind of operate in these 3 is a high-tech, a low tech, and a no tech sort of zone or a box, if you will. And those zones can kinda overlay. So let's say if I'm going out into the bush, I might be wearing modern clothes, but I might be carrying all, you know, homemade gear, a backpack made of an alkyd and some moccasins and very simple stuff. But with within that, and I think about my priorities, I'm always thinking about what are the hardest things to replicate in the bush. And because it's very easy to carry a lighter lighter and make a fire. So when it comes to addressing my core needs, I kinda focus on something that's a blade in respects, a cutting tool, if you will, some form of a blanket or barrier, like a wool blanket or even just a sleeping bag or whatever appropriate jacket, some aspect of a bottle and typically a steel water bottle or, you know, a clay pot, something I can boil water in, and then an aspect of burn. And that burn is just something that aids in your fire making process.

Donnie Dust [00:08:34]:
Maybe it's a hearth board or maybe it is a ferro rod or some tinder. And those four things are very hard to just create naturally out in the bush. So when it comes to the fire, I like to kinda give myself a little bit of an advantage, because you can resource a lot of these things. But if I know that it's 45 degrees out in the mountains, yes, I've battled that environment before, but why not just make it a little bit easy? So maybe I'll bring some ideal tinder and, you know, and a hand drill. And when it comes to fire, I think when you have spent enough days in the bush, whether you're in the Amazon, Louisiana, Africa, in the mountains, you learn not necessarily the ideal pieces of wood, but you learn the properties of the wood that best suits a hand drill or a bow drill or a fire plow, something of that accent. So I try not to focus on I need to know a 1,000 plants. I focus on the properties of the plants that will work best when it really comes to addressing fire.

Bob DeMarco [00:09:33]:
So you mentioned all these different environs, Louisiana, Africa. You've been all over the world, in and and roughing it, not not, you know, you've been roughing it all over the place. So so you're saying what you're looking for in terms of starting a fire is, certain characteristics in the okay. It's damp here. Now I need to look for x, y, and z.

Donnie Dust [00:09:55]:
Yeah. So, like, you know, in the Amazon's, it's one of those great examples where I'm looking for let's say if I'm gonna do a hand drill. I'm looking for the properties that makes a good spindle and a good hearth board. That's what I'm focusing on. I might not know any of the plants there. I might I mean, you know, some some other ones you don't, but you could come across a material and say, wow. I think this might be a great hearth board. You put it in your pocket, and away you go.

Donnie Dust [00:10:19]:
So focusing on the properties allows you to really break down the kinda key components on the ideal Frictionfire sets when you're in those unique environments.

Bob DeMarco [00:10:29]:
Something that I've learned recently just from watching videos like yours and and others is is that rotten logs, you know, that have been, you know, you know, around my entire life. I didn't realize they created, that they they supply, if you dig in, some great smoldering wood and great smoking wood. I think I saw you smoking some deer. So things like that and starting fire when it's wet, to someone like myself has always been mystifying. But as I kind of unlock some of these things, I'm trying them on my own Yeah. And seeing that, it, you know, might take some doing, and it doesn't happen as quickly as you expect, but that it happens. I wanna ask you this this this question about time in a survival situation. You know, those of us who live in the modern world and and do modern things all the time, we plan our our days, according to time, and it always goes longer than we expect.

Bob DeMarco [00:11:26]:
But when we're talking about the kind of things you do out in the bush, how the hell do you plan? I mean, it must take way longer than you expect.

Donnie Dust [00:11:35]:
Yeah. I mean, time is is a factor in a lot of things. I usually do a lot of time factoring when it comes to building a shelter. And that and it's not necessarily the amount of time, that I'll need to build a shelter. It's the amount of time I'll be spending in a location. If I'm gonna be spending a week in a location, I might build a shelter that's a little bit more robust, a little bit more comfortable. But knowing that I have a week ultimately to do it, I don't feel as rushed, I guess you could say. If I'm only staying in a place for 1 night because I'm moving through from point a to point b, it's a pile of leaves.

Donnie Dust [00:12:09]:
That's when I factor in time as far as the requirements to actually build that shelter. So you kinda factor in time in a lot of different ways, but I think you have to understand survival is really it's it's about just getting by. You're getting by with the bare minimum, and you're not really thriving. And my goal is to ultimately kind of go from survival to that kind of thrival mode where you have the luxuries, you have the comfort, you have the supply of food and and water, and you feel safe and you feel secure. So when it comes to time, it's gonna take a little bit of time to get to that kind of thriving sort of zone. But with more exposure and time out in the bush and understanding of the flora and the fauna and the environments that you're in, you could kinda speed that process up a little bit because you're familiar with Mhmm. You know, the properties of the wood or the best ways to catch fish or understanding game trails that are in Africa are gonna be the same sort of game trails and and property wise that you might find in the states.

Bob DeMarco [00:13:10]:
Well, I've been thinking about that, and and it's like, trial and error is great. In almost every other way of life, you kinda get to know things just through doing them over and over. But in a survival situation, it kinda seems like you don't have that luxury, for too long, you know, that that that you can be creative, to a point. Sure. What what do you say, from from your perspective, how do you plan for that if you're not, if you find yourself thrust in that situation and you're not someone who spends their days, figuring the stuff out?

Donnie Dust [00:13:46]:
Yeah. And I think you hit the nail on the head right off the bat is that if you find yourself thrusted into that situation you have to really think about it. Most of the people that go out and practice survival, bushcraft, primitive steels, it it is ultimately a self induced survival situation. You are cognitively putting yourself there. So within that cognitive landscape, you have certain controls left and right. You can say, you know what? Instead of 1 blanket, I'm gonna bring 2. Instead of bringing my stone knife, I'm gonna bring my steel blade. So 99 0.9% of the time, that's what people are doing, but there's that 0.1% of the time where it's that real situation.

Donnie Dust [00:14:25]:
And in that real situation, it's it's it's one of those things where you have to kinda factor in where am I at environmental wise, where am I at health wise, and what am I looking to do? Am I injured? Do I need to get back to my truck so I can drive out of here? Have I, you know, snapped a leg and I need to kinda give myself first aid? So it's hard to dabble in that world where it's real. Because most survival that you see on YouTube and all these situations, we have control over it. Mhmm. And that's the one thing I try to paint to an audience is that my ability to go out into the bush with a stone knife has come from years of experience and and years experimenting in different environments. I don't recommend it right off the bat for folks, but this is kind of the approach because your aim is to get to that point where, you know, your self induced survival is almost real. So that's limiting your gear and kind of giving yourself a harsher environment. But, you know, if folks are looking to kinda go down this thing, it's it's great to just start going out in the bush. Start start seeing the flora and the fauna, smelling the environment, spending a night there, spending 2 nights there, and just building up that ground truth into your personal experiences.

Bob DeMarco [00:15:41]:
I I think it's spending the night is a huge difference. My daughter and I just camped out in the backyard. I'm telling you, I'm way suburban, sir. So, I mean, like, camping out in the backyard is like, wow, man. Listen to all those sounds. And we hear them. We we leave our windows open, but to be out there and I know. And we're taking incremental steps to get further and further out.

Bob DeMarco [00:16:03]:
I always think of this when I'm on a plane, which is not that frequently, but I kick off my shoes. I I ease my seat back, and I doze off, which I can do pretty much anywhere I am. But on an airplane, I think if this goes down and I live, what happens next?

Donnie Dust [00:16:18]:
Oh, yeah. I I think we all run that scenario in our brain when we're right on a plane. Some of us are like, you know, I hope nobody gets hurt, but I'd like to give it a shot. Yeah. You know, I I think as as long as people are kind of finding that opportunity to go camping in the backyard or to go on those hikes and spend a simple night or maybe in a weekend, they're making small steps into their own personal rewilding, which is kinda the the idea behind my book, Wild Wisdom, is to give people those foundational core skills that they can utilize if they ever find themselves in one of those extreme situations. And some of the clients that I bring out on these, you know, survival trips and primitive skills trips, I base it off of their pattern of life. There's no way I would bring you out in the bush and say, let's just go primitive. Like you just discussed, hey, I go camping in the backyard with my daughter.

Donnie Dust [00:17:11]:
So it's very likely you and your daughter might be on a hike one day, and something could happen. An injury, getting lost, a severe storm. That is the real scenario. And that's what I like to train people for is saying, well, let's let's stick within what's normal in your life, and then let's do a little curve ball. So I'll have them pack what they would pack for a day hike, and then we go. We spend the next 3 days out there going over how to make fire and shelter and collect clean water, and more importantly, signaling for help. Because they're not just out there to live.

Bob DeMarco [00:17:43]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Donnie Dust [00:17:43]:
They're out there to say, I need some help, and how do I signal for help? So you kinda have to play every survival scenario, you know, based on that person and what they'll ultimately be coming across.

Bob DeMarco [00:17:55]:
Well, of course, you're on the Knife Junkie podcast, and I I got very interested in your work through your flintknapping. And before we get to that, I I wanna talk about your, your, marine corps service. And, by the way, thank you for your service. Oh, my pleasure. And I always like to say it it it gave my family freedom when I wasn't serving, so I appreciate it greatly.

Donnie Dust [00:18:18]:
Oh, my pleasure.

Bob DeMarco [00:18:19]:
We talk to a lot of marines here. We have a lot of marines in the in the extended family. Absolutely. And they love knives, and they make great knives. They do, man. But what tell me about your marine corps training and and, what in that training led to where you are today, if at if at all?

Donnie Dust [00:18:36]:
Yeah. Yeah. And so my my military background had a big influence into kinda where I'm at today. One, it gave me a whole different sort of mental approach to life. Like, the marine corps can really paint some horrible days as far as combat and and just some really rough training. So I always have that to kinda fall back on because it will never be as bad as it was then. So it makes every day going forward pretty, pretty easy. But, I started off in the marine corps as an infantryman.

Donnie Dust [00:19:04]:
I was a, machine gunner, a heavy machine gunner shooting 50 cals in Mark 19. And then, yeah, lot of lot of lot of weight carrying there, but, I love I love the infantry. And from the infantry, it kinda gave me a different aspect of bush time, a lot of planning, a lot of preparation, a lot of equipment. And as I progressed in my marine corps career, I eventually made a lap move or a lateral move into the counterintelligence human intelligence field, where I was essentially, running, a variety of human based sources, in the different areas I was and conducting interrogations with alkanotypes and, some pretty hardcore insurgents. But my job within that counter intel field was to embed with the, local population and utilize them, as a source of information. There was a reciprocity there. They'd exchange, you know, information with me, and I would offer, you know, you know, ammunition, food, safety, a whole variety of things. But I really got to spend some time living with people, that were kind of outside of my normal pattern of life.

Donnie Dust [00:20:11]:
So I think the marine corps with all the planning and prep and then a lot of that exposure time living with, you know, Bedouins and and the Middle East to, you know, different jungle clans all throughout Southeast Asia, it kinda gave me kind of this approach where, like, I have a lot of stuff, a lot of resources in the military, but look at all these folks over here that can do all of these exact same things with very, very little. And having always been a lover of the outdoors and history and kind of being outside, much like yourself, we grew up with no YouTube. And when we were in trouble, we had to go inside of the house instead of go outside and play. Yeah. I just kinda wanted to exactly. I just wanted to kind of carry that that process, on. I really enjoyed the outdoors, and I enjoyed learning from different cultures and how they went about ultimately, you know, surviving and ultimately thriving into the world that we have today. So I love the corps.

Donnie Dust [00:21:08]:
It was it was a great time.

Bob DeMarco [00:21:09]:
It it sounds like you were doing sort of a a a civilian, a CAG kinda thing. My my brother-in-law did some stuff where, in the early part of, desert, the the second Iraq war where he was, with the populations and and and and dealing with them. And and he learned a lot from them too culturally, but, so that's pretty amazing because I know that they live with fewer resources And, absolutely. Yeah. The so so, basically, you're saying any day, living the way you wanna live is gonna be easier, even if it's primitive, than it was in the marine corps. I I respect that.

Donnie Dust [00:21:49]:
Absolutely. I mean, I really think about it. No one's trying to blow me up with an ID or, you know, snipe me with a bullet, so I'm like, oh, there's a few bears in Moose. They ain't

Bob DeMarco [00:21:57]:
got guns. Right.

Donnie Dust [00:21:59]:
I'm good. You

Bob DeMarco [00:21:59]:
know? No malice there. Just just nature.

Donnie Dust [00:22:03]:
Exactly.

Bob DeMarco [00:22:04]:
So I wanna ask you. Now do you live like you do in your videos? Because I watch, and I'm like, man. It it's it's very like I've mentioned in my in my, opening intro, it's, I live vicariously through some of these videos I watch. And I'm like, man, he lives in that little grotto or whatever. You know? So so tell me about how you live and and how you incorporate all this into your life.

Donnie Dust [00:22:29]:
Well, it's it's interesting because, you know, I'm a father myself of 2 teenage, sons, and, being a a father is priority number 1, for me. It's, without a doubt, the most important thing. So in order to maintain a a lifestyle that gives them the opportunity to, I always say, kinda have a normal life, I find myself living in a a normal house half the time and then out in the bush with the remainder of the time. And, you know, my fiance that I'm marrying is is she's very much in the same kind of path. She does a lot of medicinal plants and and foraging. So there's there's a balance in that world, in this modern age, especially with being, responsible and and interactive and, you know, attuned father that, I have to be there, and I want to be there for my kids. I wanna watch some of the lacrosse games and go to their parent teacher conferences as much as I can. There is still that continuous call, to head out in the bush, and I do go out there for, you know, extended periods of time, but they kinda understand that's what dad does.

Donnie Dust [00:23:34]:
That's how dad makes his living, and, they're they're okay with it. But, I mean, I've had I've lived in the basements of people. I've lived out of my truck, and I've I've spent months living in caves, and, you know, all around really just to experience, what it is to truly kind of survive and thrive, because I base everything I teach off of off of ground truth. And ground truth is that firsthand experience of actually doing something. So even in my book, everything that's written in that book is something I have done. There's no best theories or I heard from this guy or I heard from this guy. Everything in there, I have probably, without a doubt, have failed up at you know, failed first at it and then found a success point moving through it by creative processes and problems solving. But for me, it's I enjoy living out there.

Donnie Dust [00:24:25]:
I mean, fortunately, with my fiance, she is onboard with us going out there collecting mushrooms and living for a couple days and then coming back to watch a lacrosse game with my youngest son. It's it's a balance, and I've and I won't trade one for the other. You know? It's I mean

Bob DeMarco [00:24:44]:
Well, it sounds like one prepares you for the other. It sounds like a nice balance. You know? Like, okay. Gotta go back into civilization, and then you're there. You're like, this is awesome. Can't wait to go back to the woods. And I could totally see that as as Exactly. As a person not always 100% thrilled to be living, you know, so close to Washington, DC, I could I could really love to escape to the woods.

Bob DeMarco [00:25:07]:
Like alright. So let's let's talk about the tool making. So that that is what drew me into your to your channel and got me to to, be following you. There's one that I rewatched today, which was someone sent in a request. Can you make a war club?

Donnie Dust [00:25:23]:
And you're like,

Bob DeMarco [00:25:24]:
oh, yeah. I can. But let's talk about the flintknapping, the knife is the first tool. How did you learn how to do this stuff? And show us something.

Donnie Dust [00:25:34]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So, I mean, this is this is an Obsidian blade, that I made today. Oh, cool. Just just a nice one. And, you include your address. This one's kinda right to

Bob DeMarco [00:25:45]:
your mom. Yes.

Donnie Dust [00:25:46]:
Yeah, man. You get you gotta have some stone up on that wall.

Bob DeMarco [00:25:49]:
That's I do.

Donnie Dust [00:25:50]:
That's the rule

Bob DeMarco [00:25:50]:
of thumb. Right there. Right.

Donnie Dust [00:25:52]:
But yeah. So I mean I mean, whether it's it's any sort of stone, I really enjoy, flintknapping. And for me, flintknapping was the process to really kind of understand what was our first, like, real survival skill. What was our first thing that we did that really kinda progressed us up that evolutionary ladder? And it was creating stone tools. Stone tools in the form of, you know, simple little bifacial blades like this to cut away membrane and scrape a hide to, sorry, simple little razor blade stone flakes like this that you can process an entire animal with. So in my flitnapping journey, I thought it was important to use the tools first, though and that approach would help me understand how to make them. So about 20 years ago, I found a guy that could make some obsidian tools. He made me a handful of stuff.

Donnie Dust [00:26:51]:
I used them until there was nothing left, and then I felt like I kind of earned the right to start making them. And from there, I just started with simple stone flakes as your first tool, your first knife blade. This flake, right here, as you can kinda see, is a discoid flake pulled off a core, but this is a knife. This is essentially a razor blade that I could cut a fireboard with, cut cordage with. I could really process an entire animal. As a matter of fact, on October 19th, I will be teaching a class, to 8 other students on how to butcher a bison, 24 on an island bison with stone flakes and knives like this. So my flintknapping was all self taught. There was no YouTube at the time.

Donnie Dust [00:27:38]:
I mean, there was a handful of books that I picked up to kinda understand terminology and best practices, but it was all trial and error. Every swing, every hit, every stitch, because I had to learn to give myself stitches because I was always cutting myself through. Yeah. That that's a bad injury spot.

Bob DeMarco [00:27:56]:
Because every time you hit it, it's a razor blade falling to the floor. I wonder how many times you cut your feet. I mean, that is what

Donnie Dust [00:28:02]:
Oh, yeah. My my legs when I hit a piece of stone, it's razor blades coming off, so you gotta watch your eyes. And it all comes down to how you hit that stone and how you prepare it, but I've sliced my legs open. I had to give, do a chemical cauterization on my thumb because I slipped into a piece of obsidian and took out a quarter sized chunk out of my thumb. And, I mean, it's it's pretty dangerous, but it's it's all manageable and negligible with, you know, the kind of the the right approach into it. So I essentially taught myself, how to flintknap. I started with glass bottles and some really poor choices in stone and kind of learned the hard way. But my approach to flintknapping is in the primitive aspect.

Donnie Dust [00:28:46]:
There's there's modern knapping where a lot of guys will use copper. And for me, I use things like billets, you know, whether it's a piece of moose or a white tail antler or a piece of caribou and an antler tied from an elk, I'll use those to make the tools that I need. And the one reason why I kinda stick to this, the the primitive with all natural ways, all these things can be found naturally in the bush. So you can essentially find the tools that you need to make the tools to move forward into your, surviving and thriving. So even hammer stones that I can use to, you know, break stone with, I mean, everything is obtainable out of the bush. So I like that idea. And that's one of the challenges I like to do is go into the Chihuahua Desert where I have, some property with nothing and just make everything that I need for maybe the next few weeks or a single week. But footnapping is it's it's a hard skill.

Donnie Dust [00:29:44]:
And I mean, it's a hard skill because people see it online and they see how easy it looks, but that person that's napping has probably spent some time, some blood, and a lot of sweat to get to that point, especially when it comes to, you know, making, you know, knives like this. The idea is this is all you really need to survive out in the bush. I mean, this I enjoy just going out in the bush with a stone blade or even something smaller. Like, this is my, little elk skin pouch, and I just like to bring this little bit of a hand blade that's butted on one side. But this will open up fish, open up game, cut fire boards, cut fire.

Bob DeMarco [00:30:23]:
Okay. I pop

Donnie Dust [00:30:23]:
it in here, and it's just it's awesome.

Bob DeMarco [00:30:26]:
So wait. Wait. Wait. I I need to divert just a touch here Okay. Because I wanna talk about how counterintuitive flintknapping seems from my perspective. And I've done sculpture and a lot of creative stuff and, but I look at it. You hit it on one side. The rock falls off on the other side.

Bob DeMarco [00:30:42]:
Oh, okay. Let's just talk about it right now.

Donnie Dust [00:30:44]:
Yeah. No problem.

Bob DeMarco [00:30:45]:
But I wanna get back to that little pouch and the anxiety it gives me. We'll we'll be back to that. But, so you hit the rock. You with the small rock or the round rock, you hit it on the top. A flake comes off the bottom. It's like it's it's like you're sculpting the bottom of it, but you're working the top of it.

Donnie Dust [00:31:04]:
Yeah. So it's if you think of every piece of stone this is a piece of Georgetown shirt. This is a little bit smaller piece. But the objective is to take this thick piece of stone and thin it down so it's bifacial, so two sides. And when it's in that bifacial form, it allows me to manipulate the edges through pressure to ultimately kinda get to the shape that I want. So if I hold a piece of my stone, I'll kinda do it up high. In order to do that, I'm I'm striking the stone with a hard hammer. And when I'm striking it, what I'm doing is I'm creating what's called a cone.

Donnie Dust [00:31:37]:
We've all fired a BB gun at a windshield at some point in our lives. And when that BB strikes the windshield, it creates a perfect 90 degree cone. So by me understanding that philosophy in my head and then taking this stone and hitting it at different angles, I essentially can create a chunk of that 90 degrees. So if I hit this, I've just kind of popped off a single flick just like that. And if I replace it, I can see where I struck it and how much of that 90 degree cone came right off on the bottom. So I've got half the cone going this way and the other half going this way based on my point of impact. So through manipulation and flipping of the stone, I can keep popping off flakes until I get it into a bifacial form, which can then be turned into a knife or projectile points, really anything.

Bob DeMarco [00:32:30]:
So you're saying that every time you hit it, it's gonna come off at some sort of 90 degree angle depending on how you strike it, like, just as a rule?

Donnie Dust [00:32:38]:
Yeah. As a rule. So it's it's it's it's a it's a bit of technology that early on nobody understood. Right? But until we started to kinda get into the science of it but through those strikes, because stone doesn't like to break at 90 degrees. If I hold it like this and take the stone and hit it like this, eventually with enough force, time, effort, and energy, I can get this stone to break. But if I manipulate my stone, give myself a different angle, and I strike it into that stone, think of that BB coming into that windshield. And right where I strike it, I'm creating that cone. So it's just a a quick pop.

Donnie Dust [00:33:16]:
Oh. And then that blade just slides right off there. And when you replace it, you can see right on this backside right there, you can see the angle Yeah. From where it was coming down. So you think there's half of the angle, and then the other angle, half is right there. And you've got your your first knife as I like to say. This is your first knife.

Bob DeMarco [00:33:38]:
So instead of, like, if you're learning how to do stock removal with a bar of steel, you have a bunch of dust you can't see. But with this, every time you strike it, you can kind of line it back up and analyze your strike, basically, and go back into it a different way if you want a different result.

Donnie Dust [00:33:57]:
Exactly. With every strike, you do a little strike analysis saying, alright. Where I hit this piece of stone, it came off in that perfect kind of, chunk of that 90 degree. If I hit it too high, and I'll do, like, a improper hit, I kinda broke off a much shallower piece of stone. Yeah. But if I just take it, and then I instead of coming down, I come at an angle, that's how I'm gonna be removing more of that stone. And I want thin slices to come off. The thin slices that come off are tools, and that can be worked into an arrow point.

Donnie Dust [00:34:31]:
But I can use this chunk to say, alright. I can get a small knife out of this, and I can get about 30 or 40 of these little flakes that I can use as razor blades to process game. And I can use the knife that comes out of here to score, cut around a tree, and, you know, use it.

Bob DeMarco [00:34:47]:
So so you rough it in now with the big stones like you're just doing, hitting, hitting at the angle, knocking off those nice razor blades that can turn into game processing knives or arrowheads. And then you have to get more specific, you have to get a little more granular, then what do you do?

Donnie Dust [00:35:05]:
Yeah. So once I've gotten it down into, a much thinner phase, so a hard hammer is gonna remove a little bit more stone. That's when I can go to something like a soft billet. So all of my antlers, which come in various sizes, I mean, this is a big piece of moose, and that's a white tail antler, but that's gonna remove a smaller flake. And where it seems counterintuitive is when somebody takes a piece of stone that they want it they want it to be sharp, and they rough the edges. And when they rough those edges, you're thinking about the properties of the stone. Because stone that's razor sharp on a spall like this will crush under the impact of a hard hammer or a soft billet. But if I abrade the edge, basically, I'm reinforcing it.

Donnie Dust [00:35:52]:
And then when I strike let's see if I can do it up this high. I can pop off a much thinner flake and rip the flake. So You're

Bob DeMarco [00:36:02]:
saying you can you can get that thin flake if you do that sort of roughing it up first?

Donnie Dust [00:36:07]:
Absolutely. Because when I'm striking with an antler, I'm just catching the edge. This is how it's looking. Okay. When I hit it with a stone, I'm coming above my edge. I'm looking to hit it up here. So stone removes a lot more mass, and the antler actually rips the flake off. Because stone can be elastic at times, which is kinda one of the good properties of stone.

Donnie Dust [00:36:32]:
So when I rough that edge, it reinforces it, and it gives me the opportunity to hold it. Sometimes you miss. There you go. And it allows me to pop a flake out. And all of those flakes are super razor thin. And there's varying degrees based on the size of the stone, the size of your gillet, on what you actually wanna use. You don't wanna use something too big like this on a stone like this. I could just wind up breaking it into smaller chunks.

Donnie Dust [00:37:05]:
So if you look at all of my billets, and I have many of them of various sizes, they all serve a certain kind of timeline in that stone. So when I'm getting to a thin phase, I roll to something very very small that's just ripping super micro tiny flakes off of it. When I needed to go something bigger, I use a much bigger billon.

Bob DeMarco [00:37:25]:
So I've seen you also use a very thin port, like tine of an antler or something just to, like, make sort of serrations or, the the very

Donnie Dust [00:37:36]:
edge? So that's called pressure flaking. What pressure flaking is is once I've kind of gotten a a a piece of stone into a bifacial form, this allows me to shape it, and it also allows me to sharpen those edges. And what I'm doing is essentially, I'm taking the edge of my flaker, and this is a piece of caribou. I'm pushing it into the edge, and then popping the flake off. So I do that into my hand, and I push, and I pop. Push, and I pop The whole way around, and it allows me to shape the stone. More importantly, if I have a knife, this is how we sharpen our stone knives. If my knife becomes dull, I can go around with my pressure flaker and just readdress my eggs with little micro flakes.

Donnie Dust [00:38:22]:
And essentially, it gives me one serrated blade the whole way around. So all stone tools, so this is an early type of Danish dagger. If I was to use this, let's say I've been using this for about 3 months now. Say if I use this for a year, it's gonna drop in length, and it's gonna drop in its width. Because as I sharpen it, I'm taking little pieces of the stone off, and eventually, it shapes change.

Bob DeMarco [00:38:50]:
So how how often is that? Do you need to resharpen it with every use? Or,

Donnie Dust [00:38:55]:
it it's it's a good rule of thumb. It's just like like any knife. Once you've used it extensively, whether it's for butchering butchering or doing a lot of, like, you know, wood shaping, it's best to keep it sharp because it just you avoid injuries. You know, we all know this, sharp blades cut clean. So as it just dulls out, I just resharpen it. You know?

Bob DeMarco [00:39:16]:
Well, let me ask you this. Okay. So you you live, part of the time kind of, in in well, in in a more well, in a house, and then you live out in the bush. I know you you don't live for the videos. I know the videos are are part of what you do. But when you go out into the when you go back to your wilderness home, so to speak Yeah. You have all your tools there, I would assume, already made. But how often do you have to refresh? How often do you show up to your wilderness home and say, oh, jeez.

Bob DeMarco [00:39:47]:
I need a a new knife this time or that kind of thing.

Donnie Dust [00:39:50]:
Yeah. Yeah. You know, I I think it's one of those things that's this is kinda like my my drug of choice is making stone tools. So Yeah. I'm always it's just like anybody that's in the knives. They're like, oh, you know, I should get this or I should get this. So I'm always making them. So it's it's sometimes, if I'm going to a unique environment, let's say if I'm going to Africa, maybe I'll make a stone blade for that trip, and I'll use it for that trip.

Donnie Dust [00:40:15]:
And then I will kind of cash it away and be like, ah, this is kind of my memory stone. I remember all the things I do with it. But if I'm rolling out into the bush, let's just say, for 2 weeks, I like to bring, you know, a chunk of stone and then make my tools when I'm out there. Okay. It requires a little bit of time, but that's kind of that I I don't mind it. I guess you could say

Bob DeMarco [00:40:37]:
Well, that's kinda your mindset while you're out there. Right? You have a lot of time.

Donnie Dust [00:40:41]:
Lot of time and a lot of time. And if you make your tools, you know, kind of, as they're needed, but you can't you have a couple good core cutting tools, really can't go wrong. And I think a lot of the videos, a lot of things that I do, I always tell people that you're getting about 10% of Donnie. Like, there's so many times where I don't even record anything. I'm just out living. I'm hunting. I'm forging. I'm doing any number of things.

Donnie Dust [00:41:05]:
So when the camera's on, you're getting this small chunk of of me. And sometimes I try to do these, you know, videos where I'm out for 2 or 3 days, but when the batteries run out, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. It's a I keep it simple.

Bob DeMarco [00:41:18]:
So I have this, I I have a boar hunting fantasy that comes from the odyssey that my wife laughs at me. But in recent years, I have a squirrel hunting and eating, because Nice. Like I said, right here, you know, it's not looked upon so nicely for me to kill a neighborhood squirrel and eat it. But, you know, I'm not I I'm certainly, you know, not above that, and and I've looked into it. I've looked into recipes and stuff, and it's funny what you see. You see recipes that it's like, well, if you have all those ingredients, why are you eating squirrel in the first place? But, let me ask you. When you're out in the bush and you're you're you're hunting your food, what what do you look for most? What's your favorite food to eat out there, a? And, b, do you Yeah. Do you trap more, or do you hunt more, like, with bows you make and that kind of thing?

Donnie Dust [00:42:09]:
Yeah. I mean, that's that's a fair question. So my mentality is I fish first. Mhmm. I always fish first. Typically, you can see the fish in the water. If they're in a stream, they're they're kind of hanging in that stream, and I just like to pull them out with my hand, whether it's a couple of trouts or really everything in hand.

Bob DeMarco [00:42:27]:
Pull them out like Bigfoot, you just kinda stand there in the river and grab them?

Donnie Dust [00:42:31]:
So, yeah, trout are kind of unique. So if they see you coming, they're gonna shoot to the sides or go underneath the rock, and they're gonna stay there. So you just get down in the water and just kinda stick your hand up underneath. You'll feel the belly, and I just slide my hands right to the gills, pull them out, and, you know, you have 3 or 4 fish. Yeah. I I don't even bring a line or tackle. But That's so cool.

Bob DeMarco [00:42:52]:
Love that.

Donnie Dust [00:42:53]:
And let's say fishing isn't an opportunity. I'm definitely targeting well, I I should preface this. I I stick within all the rules and regulations based on the states and where I'm hunting here, and what I'm hunting with. So one of the beautiful things about Colorado and some of the places I go is small game hunting is is a long season. So and a lot of things fall within that small game. Mhmm. And if it's wintertime here, I know there's, you know, snowshoe hares and rabbits and, you know, raccoons and all sorts of things that I can take. And if that's the case, I'm I'm just typically bringing a bow with me because it's it's far easier.

Donnie Dust [00:43:30]:
And the challenge of hunting is always gonna exist, but for me, it's it's really just getting some some meat on the, meat on the skewer, so to speak. But when I'm hunting for large game, like, I have a mule deer tag I'm filling and then a, an elk tag, that's that's for food for the family, if if you know what I mean. That's that'll be our food all through the winter along with the bison that we're gonna butcher. So hunting is kinda twofold. It's it's resources. It's the hides that I have and the bones and all those sort of things, in that kind of traditional form of hunting with a bow. But if I'm out in the bush for a couple days and I can hunt with a very primitive means of hunting, something like a rabbit stick or an atlatl or, a stone sling or bow, I like to go with what is appropriate and legal in that area, and then I just try to get it on. And the beautiful part is sometimes you you're completely unsuccessful.

Donnie Dust [00:44:28]:
Anybody who's hunted knows, like, yeah, you can be within a 150 yards of of some sort of mule deer or elk or moose, and you you've got a rifle, but the wind changes and that thing's taking off. And you still have a rifle, so imagine doing it with, you know, a rabbit stick or some sort of bow. You gotta get up nice and close. That's kind of that challenge, and I I'll tell you, I go many days without eating. The one thing I won't do is when my dog, Finn, comes with me, I'll always pack him something because, like Yeah. I'm like, if I suck that day, I can't let him stop. Yeah. You know? So

Bob DeMarco [00:45:03]:
Well, I bet those kinda days, like, make you, pine for the caveman days when they're out in groups, all with their stone, spears and all that, you know, taking down the mastodon as a group. Are you ever tempted and I'm not saying you don't use them, but I'm I'm not sure. Are you ever tempted by modern tools when you're out, in the bush? And, do you do you just okay. Today, I'm gonna use this modern tool, or do you

Donnie Dust [00:45:28]:
Yeah. I mean, like, this right here is my, my boma, as I call it. So this was a bolo machete that I cut about 6 inches off, put a new handle on there. It's got a flex to it. I can scrape with it. But this is one of my preferred, like, all around sort of bush tools. If I know I'm gonna be doing some heavy chopping, this guy's you know, it's it's coming with me. So this is modern.

Donnie Dust [00:45:52]:
If, in the if in the state of Colorado, I don't, get an archery tag and the only thing I can do is a December pronghorn hunt, then that's what I'm gonna do to get that meat because

Bob DeMarco [00:46:03]:
Is that a rifle? Is that that was to say, is that a rifle?

Donnie Dust [00:46:05]:
Okay. That that'd be that'd be a rifle in that case, but, I mean, having 2 teenage boys and a couple dogs Yeah. And if you know, you gotta put some meat on the table.

Bob DeMarco [00:46:15]:
So at the teenage boys, but the dogs just so

Donnie Dust [00:46:20]:
That's it.

Bob DeMarco [00:46:20]:
So that machete you were holding up, I I I recently watched the video where you were using that. You used to chop down a tree, and then you did some scraping with it and all sorts of that that machete has a great sound, by the way, which is a thing that some of us knife nerds, think about. But, but it's interesting to me that you consider that modern. That's modern because that's modern heat treated steel. But most people would consider that, you know, maybe that's not such a modern tool. Is that about as far as you go in terms of, accommodations? Yeah.

Donnie Dust [00:46:52]:
I mean, I think when when it comes to blades, I'll either carry this guy with me. I I just like it because I can sharpen it on, like, a rotten log in sand. That's a it's a real easy way to sharpen it. But if I'm going, you know, let's say I'm gonna have a relaxing weekend, I mean, I'll bring something like, Apuku or something like that. I kind of like that smaller blade, especially something I can get a good stock on. And I just I use this kind of, back 1 third of that blade right here. That's my mass removal, and it's just a a reliability thing for me. And, you know, if I'm going let's say, I'm gonna I'm gonna go out elk hunting and I'm bringing a primitive bow.

Donnie Dust [00:47:32]:
I know for for me, I will be, you know, bringing stone tools with me, and that's how I'll process that animal out. But if I'm guiding folks, if I'm if I'm doing a traditional survival class, I'm gonna bring a modern knife. Mhmm. And, you know, part of that is showing folks how to maintain and what is good, you know, situational awareness with your knife. What are my key areas on a blade that I can actually carve with and then slice with? And, you know, it's it's teaching folks in that respect. That's when I employ a little bit more of that modern stuff. But if it's just Donnie, he's not recording. I'm in buckskins, animal furs, and maybe I'll bring I'll bring some some rock salt with me.

Donnie Dust [00:48:13]:
I always like to carry a little salt. It's not a bad thing.

Bob DeMarco [00:48:16]:
Modern luxury, sir.

Donnie Dust [00:48:17]:
You should be a sham. Man.

Bob DeMarco [00:48:19]:
I'm getting soft. I'm getting soft.

Donnie Dust [00:48:22]:
So

Bob DeMarco [00:48:22]:
I wanna go back to that little pouch. This seems like the appropriate time. Yeah. So sometimes you'll just light out for the territories, and this is the only thing you have on you?

Donnie Dust [00:48:30]:
Yeah. So this is this is my cutting tool right here. Just a simple little hand blade, and it's butted, so that's a little bit of the cortex. When we looked at, any one of these stones, there's typically a cortex on them, and then there's the raw stone on the inside. So I keep a little cortex there, that's the handle that kinda pushes into my hand, and I can saw and cut with it. And then in this pouch, I have a pressure flaker, and my leather my little pouch here For

Bob DeMarco [00:49:00]:
holding it.

Donnie Dust [00:49:01]:
Acts as my hang pad. So this gives me the ability to carry my my blade, sharpen my blade, and I've got the tools necessary to ultimately maintain it. And I call it a pit pouch because it goes over my shoulder, and it just rests right under my right under the armpit. It never comes off. It stays on there. And it's just this is in my personal pet, this is all you really need.

Bob DeMarco [00:49:22]:
Alright. Alright. So, Donnie, I'm gonna tell you why your pouch gives me anxiety because I just recently, purged my EDC backpack. It's I just carry it from home to work. And, you know, I work in a place where it could get shot up, so I'm I I kinda keep extra stuff with me, but, you know, I it's it it ends up being £50. I'm like, what do I have in here? I open it up. I've got a couple of tourniquets. I got a whole bunch of bandages.

Bob DeMarco [00:49:48]:
I got four knives. I got all this I got tons of fishing. Like, between here and work, there's no opportunity to fish. I don't know why I have that gear in there. So I got rid of it all, and and and at first, I felt like, oh my god. Like, I'm naked going to work. And, now I feel so much better. I'm £20 lighter.

Bob DeMarco [00:50:07]:
There you go. Do do we rely on too much crap in the modern day?

Donnie Dust [00:50:12]:
I I don't think we rely on too much crap. I think what we rely on is, assurance, and I think it's better to have than to, you know, have not. I mean, in in my truck, I've got my emergency road gear, and I have just enough stuff that is seasonal based on kind of where I go. Come along to get me out, some straps if I gotta pull somebody else out, enough food and water to keep me alive for 72 hours until I could flag down the vehicle. More importantly, I got a pack in there. If I need to walk to a nearest town, I've got enough stuff in that pack that will aid me in that walk. I don't go too high into the extreme, but I I'm very much prepared in, like, even when I'm traveling to, you know, South America, Central America, wherever. Here's a little fun fact.

Donnie Dust [00:50:59]:
TSA cannot pick up stone knives in any of your carry on. So this and all sorts of blades come with me. So I'm I'm very much in that same sort of respect. I mean, even on my day to day, I'll carry a small little little pocket knife, a little little buck knife, something to that extent. But, I mean, it's important. I think you got you gotta have that stuff, especially nowadays. I mean, I don't I don't mess around with it. I mean, as as primitive as I like to go out and adventure, do my thing, I still have the necessary requirements Okay.

Donnie Dust [00:51:32]:
To, you know, get me out of a situation. That's really what it is. I mean, I've got a harvest right freeze dryer sitting here. I've got stockpiles of food because in Colorado, we get some bad winters. And my mentality is not to stay in one place. My mentality is to be mobile. Couple days here, couple days there. Because as soon as you stay in place, you get complacent, and it's game over.

Donnie Dust [00:51:56]:
It's for me, it's always moving. So I have lighter stuff based off of my kind of my pattern of, of life and that sort of, you know, bug out sort of scenario. So I'm always moving. And I'm gonna go to places where nobody else wants to go. That's the key.

Bob DeMarco [00:52:12]:
Take up those resources there. So you mentioned you're the father of sons. I'm the father of daughters, but we're both the father of kids, like, these days. Absolutely. And, no matter how much you try, there's still kids living these days. What kind of advice do you have, for fathers and mothers, if there are any who listen to this show? Fathers and mothers, of of kids today who are teens or younger, in terms of getting them interested in the outdoors and pulling them out of their devices and the and the virtual world?

Donnie Dust [00:52:46]:
Yeah. I think that's that's a difficult question because every having 2 sons, I do not parent my sons the exact same way. They're 2 different people. And I know how they respond and how they need, you know, my attention and how they don't need my attention at different times. So I think with, in in my situation, maybe this would overlay on some other folks, is that parents need to take charge. They they they have to be the ones that say, alright. Hey. Drop your stuff.

Donnie Dust [00:53:14]:
We're all going to do this. And my boys know the difference between an invite and a request. If they do, if I'm inviting them saying, hey. You know, me and Marissa, we're gonna go, we're gonna go do x, y, and z. You guys wanna come along? You know, I've got homework. I've got practice. Cool. That's an invite.

Donnie Dust [00:53:32]:
But if I show up and say, hey. This is what we're doing tomorrow, they know the difference. And I think parents, they like to be friends to their kids, and I've told my boys for many years, I am not your friend. I am your father. And once we understand that dynamic, it's it's good to go. And I live by a couple simple rules, teach them how to think, not necessarily what to think, and they can't be me. They have to be themselves. They've been exposed to so many different things that I've done over my life just through, you know, hey hey, boys.

Donnie Dust [00:54:05]:
We gotta butcher out this bison, and we're in in the back processing it out or we're cleaning ducks, whatever. They've had that exposure. But if they're wanting to dive into things, I can show them, but I want them to pursue their own interests. And, you know, it just works. My oldest boy who's 18 takes off in a couple days. He's got a one way ticket to, Spain. Oh. Speaks Spanish and French, and he's backpacking like the crystal ball sent Santiago Trail for a month, and he's going to Africa and Southeast Asia.

Donnie Dust [00:54:35]:
And, I mean, he just turned 18 in June, and he's like, I'm not ready for college. Got himself a job, saved up a bunch of money. He's financing on his own. So I'm like, go for it, my dude. Yeah. Go go do your thing. And I think I have taught him how to think, and life is full of adventure. Life is full of opportunities, but you have to kinda go out and get them.

Donnie Dust [00:54:53]:
And I will help guide you. I will lead you by example, but you have to make these these hard choices. So parents, don't be friends how to think, not necessarily what to think, and, constantly lead by example. That's it. If you're on your phone, they're gonna be on their phone.

Bob DeMarco [00:55:09]:
Yep. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. And, and and also the you know, I'm not your friend, but that's so much better than a friend. I'm your father. That's so much better than a friend.

Bob DeMarco [00:55:22]:
Friend will leave you. Friends come and go, whatever. I'll never leave you. So, yeah, those those are those are some of kind of, like, really important things I'm also trying to instill. Let me ask you this. As we close here, let's get some Yes, sir. Primitive advice, if you will, for the modern man. Like, what are the kind of things that modern men who might be wrapped up in their corporate jobs or their modern way of life and, just bombarded by news and information? What kind of advice can you give people from the past, from what you've learned?

Donnie Dust [00:55:55]:
Yeah. Well, I think the easiest thing to really understand is that, we all come from the natural world. It won't lie. It won't cheat. It won't steal. It asks nothing of us. It is the purest form of honesty that could exist. And when we take small steps, whether it's a single day hike or an overnight or a weekend camping, you will start to build up your own personal self reliance and then your understanding and connection to that natural world.

Donnie Dust [00:56:20]:
And I think when people start to just dip that toe in, they start to gain an appreciation for the seasons and when leaves start to fall and when the snow starts to fall, when animals are in the rut. We all come from the natural world. We should not be afraid of it. We should have a confidence being within it, given, you know, certain environments and parameters, but we should want to go there. And if if you're in that question of like, hey, I'm in I'm in the DC metro area. How do I get to those wild places? A wild place can be discovered for you for the very first time, and it's a brand new discovery. They exist. And there could be a a car rustling in the background, but that oak tree could've been growing for the past 150 years.

Donnie Dust [00:57:00]:
I mean, it's got a story. So just just make small attempts to go out there. Grab a book like mine, Wild Wisdom, that will help guide you in that path. And, yeah, I mean, every every step out there is a step in the right direction.

Bob DeMarco [00:57:14]:
Couldn't say it better, obviously. But, Donnie, before I let you go, let's let's talk about, how people can find your book and, and where they can catch up with you and keep up with you.

Donnie Dust [00:57:25]:
Absolutely. Yeah. So, I'm on all the the social medias minus Facebook, and it's just Donnie Dust, on Instagram and TikToks and all the other sort of stuff my kids have forced me to join. And then, donnydust.com is really the best place to pick up my book. On there as well is my link for survival mastery, my, you know, online, survival bushcraft homesteading sorter training. But, yeah, donnydust.com is really the place to kinda go. I think there's links to YouTube and, book links, and everything's on there. So it's it's just kinda where I post and share things.

Donnie Dust [00:57:59]:
So you can't forget the name Donnie Dust. It's it's a chore. Nobody likes to do dusting. So you know? Alright.

Bob DeMarco [00:58:06]:
Well well, we're gonna talk a few extra minutes for our Patreon members, and and we're gonna talk a little bit about the other your platform and and ways you can, connect with you, in terms of training, which sounds super cool. But, Donnie, I wanna thank you for coming on the Knife Junkie podcast. I really appreciate it. It's been great talking with you.

Donnie Dust [00:58:24]:
Yeah. I mean, I've I've watched so many of these episodes, and, I mean, I'm I'm a fan as well. So I for somebody who loves stone tools, I do like kind of learning, especially when you call it the big swords and you kinda Yeah. I enjoy it. I enjoy it, man. So, yeah, thank you so much, man.

Bob DeMarco [00:58:39]:
Oh, my pleasure. Take care, sir.

Announcer [00:58:42]:
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Bob DeMarco [00:59:03]:
There he goes, ladies and gentlemen. Donnie Dust. Be sure to check him out on YouTube and Instagram. His videos are addictive, and, you'll get a vicarious rush out of them until you yourself are out there living in the wild. Also, check out his book, Wild Wisdom, published by Simon and Schuster. Go to donniedust.com, and, well, everywhere else, sir, Simon and Schuster sells their books to get it. Alright, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us here.

Bob DeMarco [00:59:29]:
Be sure to join us on Wednesday for the midweek supplemental and Thursday for Thursday night knives. For Jim working his magic behind the switcher, I'm Bob DeMarco saying until next time, don't take dull for an answer.

Bob DeMarco [00:59:41]:
Thanks for listening to the Knife Junkie podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please rate and review at review the podcast dot com. For show notes for today's episode, additional resources, and to listen to past episodes, visit our website, the knifejunkiedot com. You can also watch our latest videos on YouTube at the knifejunkie.com/youtube. Check out some great knife photos on the knifejunkie.com/instagram, and join our Facebook group at the knifejunkie.com/facebook. And if you have a question or comment, email them to bob at the knifejunkie.com or call our 247 listener line at 724-466-4487. And you may hear your comment or question answered on an upcoming episode of the Knife Junkie podcast.