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Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast, your weekly dose of knife news and information about knives and knife collecting. Here's your host, Bob the knife junkie DeMarco

Bob DeMarco [00:00:15]:
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast. I'm Bob DeMarco. On this edition of the show, I'm speaking with Cary Orefice of Off-Grid Knives. Off-Grid Knives burst onto the scene in 2016 when Cary, the company's founder and designer, left his 9 to 5 to follow his passion. 8 years later, OffGrid is selling over 80 different variants of its many different models, and it's earned a reputation among outdoorsmen and knife enthusiasts alike for robust purpose driven folders and fixed blades. I've bonded with many of the off grid knives in my collection and regularly sing their praises here as some of the sliceiest, best utility cutters that I have. But Kerry's most recent release has me absolutely over the moon.

Bob DeMarco [00:00:59]:
So we're going to talk about that and a whole lot more. But first, be sure to like comment. Subscribe at the notification bell and tell a friend about the Knife Junkie podcast. If they don't think, that you're crazy, they will absolutely love this show because

Bob DeMarco [00:01:13]:
what's not to love?

Bob DeMarco [00:01:15]:
Alright. We'll get to it. If you wanna help support the show, you can do that at the knifejunkie.com/patreon. Again, that's the knifejunkie.com/patreon.

Advertisement Announcer [00:01:24]:
Do you carry multiple knives, then overthink which one to use when an actual cutting chore pops up? You're a knife junkie of the first order.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:33]:
Cary, welcome back to the show, sir.

Cary Orefice [00:01:35]:
How's it going, Bob? I'm back.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:37]:
It's going it's going well. It's always good to have you. Always good to see you. Last time we saw you, it was during knives live, when you did the the, live show, in 2022, 23, something like that. That's about

Cary Orefice [00:01:51]:
right with Doug. Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:52]:
Yeah. Exactly. That was a lot of fun. So, I gotta say, I'm absolutely in love with the new Mamba 3. Let's talk about that first. I wanna say congratulations on this release because, this has gotta be my favorite so far.

Cary Orefice [00:02:07]:
Oh, I love love love hearing that. Yeah. The original was, way more of an EDC size. It was it was closer to a size like this, and then, you know, it jumps to, you know the difference is so big that I wanted to make sure that there was a very, very big difference. And, yeah. And of course, the the big difference was not only making it bigger, better, faster, stronger, but MagnaCut. So MagnaCut was that next level type of steel that I really wanted to offer. And it's not the easiest thing to acquire and it just took a while, and then finally I was able to get it.

Cary Orefice [00:02:57]:
And so it was the perfect opportunity to revamp the original mom Black Mamba, which is now the Mamba v3. I had the v2 out. And so, yeah, it's getting like really good reviews. I already sold out of the one that you just showed. So the coyote gold is sold out. I'm already remaking them. So we're making them as fast as possible. So the good news is sold out.

Cary Orefice [00:03:20]:
Bad news is it's sold out. But, but, anyway, that's all good.

Bob DeMarco [00:03:25]:
Oh, I mean, that's fantastic news. You you were kind enough, thank you, sir, to send 2 over here. This one has, I've adopted it. It has become mine. I'm I'm only so strong, but we are giving away the black one, which is arguably, you know, arguably, I should have the black one to match my black mamba, v 2, which is so awesome. But, I wanna talk about the MagnaCut, part of it. Obviously, it's a very popular steel for its, you know, kind of, getting close to get having all three qualities of a desirable steel in one steel. But besides its demand, what what do you like about MagnaCut, or what have you found out about MagnaCut?

Cary Orefice [00:04:09]:
I mean, really, it's all about every steel that's come out throughout history and that that have gone into a knife, everyone's looking for that balance. And whenever you give something else up, it wrecks something else. You go for corrosion resistance, well something else is gonna suffer. And this I think is one of the closest ones where you can hit almost everything, including the sharpening. You can even resharpen it very well even though you're at like an HRC of 62, 63, and it hits all of that. And so to be able to check all those boxes in one steal, it's really To me, it's the crown jewel of the steels, but, I know there's so many out there, but this one And of course, it has the big name. People love it, people want it, and it does create more of a a a draw to the design. But the fact that I combined it, that people are liking the design, kind of, it all worked out.

Bob DeMarco [00:05:09]:
Well, the the interesting thing about, MagnaCut is that, yes, it's it's true. Laren Thomas, who invented the steel, is a steel professional, but he works professionally in automotive steel. He's a knife steel enthusiast. So so, basically, he created this enthusiast level knife steal for knife enthusiasts. Right. And that's kinda cool. I haven't thought of it quite like that, but you see it come out in knives like like this where, I mean, you could have made this out of, you know, d 2, and I'd still be over the I'd be nuts about it. I I love the size, the feel.

Bob DeMarco [00:05:49]:
I like how it's a little bit thinner than the than the Enforcer XL, sort of, puff cousin analog, if you will. Yeah. But, with the MagnaCut, so you mentioned 63, 62. Is that what you had this heat treated to?

Cary Orefice [00:06:06]:
Yeah. When you you know, it's PVD. It's not DLC, but but when you put the PVD on it, it does drop it down a little bit, so it's closer to, 62. 62. Okay. Yeah. Which is fine, which I think is very acceptable.

Bob DeMarco [00:06:20]:
I think I'll I'll only notice when I'm carving stone plinths with it.

Cary Orefice [00:06:24]:
Right. Right.

Bob DeMarco [00:06:25]:
For me, personally, I I just I like knowing that something is a performer, but I don't I don't I'm not gonna be pushing the steel, to really test it. But I know others do, so it's important to them.

Cary Orefice [00:06:38]:
Yes. Yeah. There's a lot of knife nerds out there.

Bob DeMarco [00:06:41]:
So, with yes. Yeah. Well, I mean, I definitely am that.

Cary Orefice [00:06:45]:
Well, you're you're a knife junkie. There's a difference.

Bob DeMarco [00:06:48]:
That's true. That's true. I I I I have a certain, undignified desperation to me.

Cary Orefice [00:06:54]:
Which, let me say this, let me say this. I got your Nova 1 right here. The Oh, no. G. The original. That's a new I'm telling you, I use it around the warehouse. I dig it. I love it.

Cary Orefice [00:07:06]:
This is a very cool knife for your first one. And so just wanna say kudos to you. This is really, really nice. Love it. And I know you got the second one. Is it already out, the second one? Thank you.

Bob DeMarco [00:07:16]:
Yeah. It's in the works right now. So In

Cary Orefice [00:07:18]:
the works.

Bob DeMarco [00:07:18]:
I had to yes. Yep. And so oh, thank you very much, man. I appreciate that.

Cary Orefice [00:07:25]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:07:26]:
So getting getting Magnica, you said, was difficult. Is that because it's in high demand now? I know at first it was rare, but

Cary Orefice [00:07:34]:
Yeah. No. It it's in it's in high demand, and, you know, best tech makes this, so I'm dealing with an overseas situation here. And so the the logistical issues with it is really what I'm talking about when it comes to that, to make sure they get that steel to get the right, thickness and and so forth. So it was really more about that. And then sometimes there wasn't enough, and I I was cut out a bunch of times where it didn't happen and I was really bummed out. So the moment there was enough, I, jumped on it. And so I just secured a bunch more because I'm gonna be putting it into the Scorpion knives, which have sold out.

Cary Orefice [00:08:16]:
So the v twos, which is this guy right here you have it there?

Bob DeMarco [00:08:21]:
Yeah. This is the v one.

Cary Orefice [00:08:22]:
Here we go. Yes. So here's the v 2, that's the v one. So this will then be MagnaCut, but I'm gonna make it broad it'll similar to the changes with the, Mamba. It'll be broader blade, same shape, same kind of, inlays and things like that. And so, yeah, I think, you know, I'm I'm hoping people will love that as much as the Mamba v 3. I think they will. It's really cool.

Cary Orefice [00:08:49]:
I'm pretty excited about it, but, we're in production right now. So I I'm gonna have 2 versions coming out hopefully before Christmas. That would be nice. Cool.

Bob DeMarco [00:09:00]:
Well, I wanna talk about the scorpion. I love this knife.

Cary Orefice [00:09:03]:
It it

Bob DeMarco [00:09:03]:
it has certain qualities that reminds me another of a of a classic knife that I adore. And then when I look at them next to each other, they don't look anything alike, but they have a similar vibe. We'll talk about that in a minute, but I wanna I I, I'm interested. So we're talking about the MagnaCut and Bestech. We know that Bestech manufactures some of your knives, and then you have a some Taiwanese manufacturers. So if that's any indication, if you're not familiar with an off grid knife, but you like the design, this is a little aside. If you like the design, it's either made by Bestech or in Taiwan by an amazing manufacturer. So, if you're if you like the design, just get it.

Bob DeMarco [00:09:43]:
You know, it'll be awesome. But I'm interested in the fact that MagnaCut is an American steel, so it gets shipped over there and and gets worked on and turned into blades, and then it comes back. So there's a lot of back and forth. That's an interesting process when you're asking for foreign steel on a foreign made note.

Cary Orefice [00:10:02]:
It is. It's a little tricky. There's there's a lot of moving parts there, and, you know, it's it's, it's heavy. It's bulky. It's, there's just a lot of moving parts, and you're hoping that it gets there okay, and and everything checks out, and that it's what it's supposed to be, and and they heat treat it correctly and cut it right, all that stuff. And then when I ended up with the prototype, I was I was like full go. So we went in as as soon as possible and started making it because it it worked out. So they got the steel and jumped on it, and then I immediately said, let's work on the, scorpions and and get that going.

Cary Orefice [00:10:44]:
And now, of course, now my head's spinning and I'm saying, I'm gonna do a fixed blade in MagnaCut. So now I wanna do a fixed blade in MagnaCut. You know?

Bob DeMarco [00:10:53]:
Alright. Right. I'm gonna I'm gonna take a note because we gotta we gotta talk about that at some point, but the way my brain works. But I with the, with the what we were talking about with getting the steel over there, having it manufactured, then you get prototypes, there's a lot of back and forth. I have to imagine I mean, I was thinking of, guys just like you last week when that longshoreman that East Coast and Gulf Coast longshoreman strike happened for 2 days. I was like, this is gonna be a disaster for a lot of people in the knife industry. Was that something you were sweating?

Cary Orefice [00:11:27]:
A little bit. Yeah. Now now I'm on the West Coast. I'm in Southern California, so I was the only thing I was sweating is that it would eventually kind of, you know, creep in to the West Side, and it didn't. So, you know, luckily, that has subsided. But, yes, I did sweat that out a little bit, but I'm sure the guys on the East Coast were freaking out. You know?

Bob DeMarco [00:11:47]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Of course.

Bob DeMarco [00:11:50]:
You're on the other side. You're closer to to China. It's like that's a better deal.

Cary Orefice [00:11:54]:
Yes. I was I

Bob DeMarco [00:11:55]:
was freaking out. Like, god, are we gonna be hoarding toilet paper again here? I mean, like, is that what we're gonna do?

Cary Orefice [00:12:01]:
Yeah. I saw that. People were were going to Costco. There were lines around Costco. Oh, no. Here we go. Yeah. Ridiculous.

Bob DeMarco [00:12:08]:
Well, okay. So, I wanna talk about your your Scorpion, revamp and such, but but before we get there, we still have more to talk about here. I wanna talk about, some aspects of this that I really like that you carried over from I know it was in the first Mamba, and it made it, and and then okay. I'm just talking about the old school file work, and then it made it over onto the,

Cary Orefice [00:12:32]:
so that's the VIPER v 2.

Bob DeMarco [00:12:33]:
The VIPER v

Cary Orefice [00:12:34]:
2. And this was one of those things that I did really early on in the and just as a design, you know, the the cutouts, not on the top, regular jimping, but the side. Right?

Bob DeMarco [00:12:47]:
Yeah.

Cary Orefice [00:12:47]:
So I called them cutouts, and and I know there was old school kind of, that's kind of old school jimping in a way, but I just liked the way it looked. I mean, really, that's where the can you use it as jimping? Yes. Then I said, I love jumping in general. Like, it's it's great. So I always end up extending it a little bit further than most knife makers. So I always end up putting it up because sometimes I like putting my thumb way up there. I like putting my finger way up there. And why not put a grip up there.

Cary Orefice [00:13:16]:
Right? A lot of times it stops right here, and I'm and my fingers up here, and that always bug me.

Bob DeMarco [00:13:23]:
Right. It's it's it oftentimes, it's only accommodating like a saber fighting grip. Like, you're using your knife like this all the time. Yes. But, yeah, I like I like how you extended it all the way up the blade. I love that it's a 4 inch blade. I to me, like, when I started collecting folders, they were all 4 inches like the the the Benchmade AKF and the early Spydercos and early, Cold Steel. So I'm I've always been tuned into this size.

Bob DeMarco [00:13:51]:
It's perfect.

Cary Orefice [00:13:52]:
Me too. Me too. And then it it kind of things started shrinking down. I mean, before I when I was just collecting and and getting things, really, I mean, when z t I think it was the o 300 or o 3, what is it? You know, the tiger stripe 1. Mhmm. I forget the number of that. But that's a b it didn't have a 4 inch blade, but I said, why it should have a 4 inch blade on it. And, that was a huge inspiration for me before I got into this was some of those big fat ZTs.

Cary Orefice [00:14:22]:
And I already loved just doing the giant handles. So handles are always my go to. I always start with the handle and then end up with the blade when I do the design. So that's kinda how I I work it because

Bob DeMarco [00:14:33]:
I love the beefy head.

Cary Orefice [00:14:34]:
It comes from the whole tools background.

Bob DeMarco [00:14:37]:
Mhmm.

Cary Orefice [00:14:37]:
And I love tools. And on our first interview, you called me a tool junkie and you're right.

Bob DeMarco [00:14:42]:
That's right. A tool junkie. Yeah. Hey. Something that works well with your knives that I have found doesn't work well with a lot of knives is, resizing. We're gonna call it resizing by percentage. For instance, let's look at the the Mamba v 2 and the v 3, the Black Mamba v 2 and the v 3. These are

Cary Orefice [00:15:05]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:15:06]:
I I cannot distinguish a difference, you know, besides very, very minor differences, like, you know, very minor differences. But in terms of the profile, I swear to God, it just seems like it's a a percentage difference. Like, you could do this and it would fit perfectly. Yes. And and I find that oftentimes, that doesn't always work with certain designs.

Cary Orefice [00:15:27]:
No. You can't just say, you know, bump it up 15% or 10% or whatever. It's true. You gotta get into the inner workings of it, and that goes into the whole CAD situation, which I've told you a 1000000 times. I don't mess with CAD. And so we go back and forth on that to make sure it's exact like, exactly the same. But just like what you said, so that you can't really distinguish the 2, but even though they're not exactly a percentage exact. You know what I'm saying? So Yeah.

Cary Orefice [00:15:54]:
Yeah. Make those tweaks in between. That's all part of the making process.

Bob DeMarco [00:15:59]:
Right. You can kinda see that in the shapes of the pommel a little bit. You can see that there are differences. But but really, it And then another thing, that you, I think you do very well when designing is that you take your smaller knives and you keep them the same width as your larger knives. And a a real extreme example of that is is the, is with the Rhino with the Rhino and the Baby Rhino. They are the same width.

Cary Orefice [00:16:26]:
The baby. Yes. They're the

Bob DeMarco [00:16:28]:
same width and but, that makes the Baby Rhino, which is tiny, It's tiny. Really easy to use. It's really easy to, like, get a full fist grip on even though my my pinky dangles over. You know?

Cary Orefice [00:16:41]:
Right. Exactly. So that that was a fun one for me. I wanted to go, I think I call it full baby. So this is like a full baby knife where it's so small. Some people, even with my photos, even describing it, even putting the measurements and the weight and everything

Bob DeMarco [00:16:57]:
Yeah.

Cary Orefice [00:16:57]:
They get it and they're shocked how small it is. But then they put it in their hand and they're like, wait a minute. It doesn't feel small. And that was the whole design purpose of the baby rhino was to make it feel bigger, but it's really small. So it's and I'm in California and a lot of people are bringing up the whole legal stuff. This is very legal, so that's good.

Bob DeMarco [00:17:18]:
Yeah.

Cary Orefice [00:17:19]:
You know? And New York, you know, they're very strict.

Bob DeMarco [00:17:22]:
Something something about the baby rhino that I love is this Yeah. Continuance of the jimping like you were talking about over there.

Cary Orefice [00:17:29]:
There it is.

Bob DeMarco [00:17:30]:
If there's a v is this the v one?

Cary Orefice [00:17:33]:
That's the 2. So you know what's gonna happen with the with the 3. Right?

Bob DeMarco [00:17:37]:
Okay.

Cary Orefice [00:17:38]:
Presumably. Yes.

Bob DeMarco [00:17:40]:
Yeah.

Cary Orefice [00:17:40]:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. The fact that it wasn't there, I was really upset with myself. I said, how could you miss that? But it's still cool, it's still fine. You can still get your finger up there, but it really needs that chimping there.

Bob DeMarco [00:17:53]:
A chimping opportunity. Actually, it really doesn't need it. But for those of us who are chimping junkies, if you wanna say, yeah, yeah, yeah. It feels feels really good. I love this knife. My, my dad, after your very first interview, my dad got me and my brother both off grid knives, and he got my brother this, and he got me the Backcountry, and I love that knife, but I was like, I also want the Rhino, dad.

Cary Orefice [00:18:14]:
There we go. I'm working on I'm working on a fixed blade of the Rhino, so it'll have a very similar profile as the Rhino. It'll be a Rhino fixed blade.

Bob DeMarco [00:18:22]:
That's a good idea. Let's talk about the Scorpion,

Cary Orefice [00:18:27]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:18:29]:
Retooling. What are you planning on for this? The Scorpion now before, before this came out, the Mamba v 3

Cary Orefice [00:18:36]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:18:37]:
And and the Black Mamba v 2, I would say that the Scorpion is kinda your flagship. Right?

Cary Orefice [00:18:43]:
The Mamba 1 was the 1st elite series, and then almost simultaneously, I did release the Scorpion 1, which is that the one?

Bob DeMarco [00:18:54]:
This is the one. Yeah.

Cary Orefice [00:18:55]:
Nice. And then came out with some limited edition with some copper and

Bob DeMarco [00:19:01]:
Yep.

Cary Orefice [00:19:01]:
Black inlays and carbon fire, all these different combinations. So it's been fun really working with the series of the, scorpions. And so having, you know, now MagnaCut to jump and and and, beyond that knife, that design, that's already proven, people already love it, but I'm gonna just make sure that it's broader. So the bottom of this blade is gonna be down here and still have that harpoon ish kind of feel and, made some other small changes. But for the most part, it'll be the scorpion. You'll know it's the scorpion. Just be a little bit beefier with MagnaCut.

Bob DeMarco [00:19:41]:
Broader blade. So what what inspired the broader blade?

Cary Orefice [00:19:46]:
It's kinda like the Mamba. It's it's something that if I'm gonna go a little bigger, it's really the handle. So this handle to me always this people love it. And for me, this was a small handle. I felt like it always needed a little more, but people loved it so much, don't mess with it. Mhmm. So I didn't mess with it. And so now that I have an opportunity to mess with it again, I'm gonna go back to the drawing board and I'm gonna do what I always do is make the handles a little broader, a little thicker.

Cary Orefice [00:20:15]:
Just I like having that full purchase on the night. It's just that's another thing that I have to do now. It's like I can't have a a a small handle. It just doesn't work. Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:20:26]:
It doesn't work. Oh, that's cool. So, are are you going to be varying the finishes and such? Because this is kind of a new finish for you, this Colton.

Cary Orefice [00:20:36]:
It is. You know, we tried to do and when I worked with Bestech on that color, we were trying to mimic our usual coyote tan color. Yeah. But because it's titanium, they were they kept working on it and working on it, and they just they were doing batch after batch, and they just couldn't get it right. I said, well, let me let me let me work with you here. Let's see see what we got. And they had little variations of it, and and then it started getting a little goldish. I'm like, that's like coyote gold.

Cary Orefice [00:21:05]:
So, and then I said, well, maybe that's too blingy or something and people won't like it. And then all of a sudden I release it and they're gone. So, I was really happy with that. Surprised. I gotta be honest. I was surprised.

Bob DeMarco [00:21:19]:
Don't don't you find that your coyote models sell faster? Didn't you tell me that?

Cary Orefice [00:21:25]:
They do. They do. So it's it it used to be the blackout, and now it's more the coyote plus the gray, has that nice combination that people really tend to gravitate to. And so I usually launch it with that. And the ones with just the basic stonewash blade, don't they just don't sell as well. So I start with 2. If they do well, kinda like the Mambas, I wanna maybe come out with a different variation of that as well since they sold out so well. And same with the scorpions.

Cary Orefice [00:21:54]:
So I could be doing different types of inlays, all sorts of things. So as you know, you go down the rabbit hole and all of a sudden there's, you know Yeah. 80 different variations. It's like, ugh.

Bob DeMarco [00:22:04]:
Ugh. Well, especially if you have a an enthusiast, market around a a certain knife. I mean, there's no reason to not, do that. You're of course, you're gonna keep making it, but why not make it even more collectible and desirable? You know? Spider Girl learned that lesson pretty well.

Cary Orefice [00:22:20]:
That's true. That's true. It's it's something that we strive strive for. And then, like, this moment, I I this is you can if you can kinda see the scales.

Bob DeMarco [00:22:32]:
Yeah. What what kind of

Cary Orefice [00:22:33]:
like a like, in between the black kinda came out we're what I told them I wanted, gold, traced around the, hexagons. Okay. And then I, you know, and I never do the milled clips. Okay? That's just something Mhmm. I don't the functionality of a milled clip to me with the straight just it doesn't work with me. However, I know people like it. People always ask me, why don't you do the milled clips? And I don't know. I might offer some, secondary markets where people wanna swap them out.

Cary Orefice [00:23:10]:
They can.

Bob DeMarco [00:23:10]:
Yeah.

Cary Orefice [00:23:11]:
But what's your opinion on the milled clip versus the regular, you know, shoe?

Bob DeMarco [00:23:16]:
I well, I gotta say, I I really like your clips. Here here are three examples

Cary Orefice [00:23:22]:
that

Bob DeMarco [00:23:22]:
I really love. The the new the one on the new Mamba, I love I love this on the rapid fire. That's awesomely done, And it's very similar on the Mamba V3. I also like that you're putting filler tabs in. So but I personally, on this kind of knife, which to me, for instance, the new one is is a is a big mix between luxury knife and Yeah. Robust adventure knife. But I I mostly look at your knives as robust adventure knives. And Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:23:53]:
To me, mill it that's not where you put a milled clip. You put a milled clip on something a little more precious,

Cary Orefice [00:23:59]:
I guess. Exactly. Exactly. So this was, just a prototype that I wanted to, tinker around with. I even added, like, a lanyard area for it. And, so this might be closer to

Bob DeMarco [00:24:12]:
let's see.

Cary Orefice [00:24:12]:
It might be a limited, edition. Let's see if I get a focus. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's something I'm kicking around and wanted to to mess with. This was actually made in Taiwan. So I'm just, you know, I'm playing with some some new ideas and stuff and and testing it out, so.

Bob DeMarco [00:24:29]:
So how do you decide between, manufacturers?

Cary Orefice [00:24:34]:
Well, as a kind of a rule of thumb for me, my fixed blades for the most part, actually all the fixed blades are made in Taiwan.

Bob DeMarco [00:24:43]:
Okay.

Cary Orefice [00:24:44]:
And then certain designs that I want really robust, like extra robust, like the,

Bob DeMarco [00:24:53]:
Yes.

Cary Orefice [00:24:53]:
The Viper v 2. This I wanted extra robust. This is our actually our number one seller right here. Oh, really? And, yeah. People absolutely love this. I can't make them fast enough, which is great. So when I make something like this that I know is gonna be tactical but also useful and it could be camping or tactical, I don't know. So I usually go with my fixed blade people, which is Taiwan.

Cary Orefice [00:25:21]:
And then sometimes, you know, the the Mamba v 3, I think Bestech just they've been doing my, Elite Series stuff, and I just stick with them because they know what they're doing. Yeah. And and that's kinda how I do it. It's it's really the the style of the knife is what decides it.

Bob DeMarco [00:25:39]:
You've mentioned your fixed blade knives, and I I gotta tell you something's happening here with me. So so I'll I'll start I'll start by saying, this this knife, I'm not counting in this conversation because I find it so useful, and it gets a lot of use, when we travel. This this gets busted out. The Grizzly, I love it. But it's not only a kitchen camp knife. To me, it's a modern Hudson Bay knife. It's very much like a Hudson Bay traders knife to me.

Cary Orefice [00:26:10]:
Nice. I love that.

Bob DeMarco [00:26:11]:
And and I do too. I think it's a cool knife. I always loved that, historical knife, you know, for traders, and, you know, you could use it to skin, and you can use it as a weapon. You could use it for for food prep. This thing is amazing. I'm gonna take this out of the conversation for a second to say that I've always been way more on the tactical end of things in terms of my taste. So when the Grizzly when this came out, I just about lost it. Alright? So this this is my, this is one of my bedroom defense knives.

Cary Orefice [00:26:41]:
Oh, jeez. I pity the fool that walks in on you.

Bob DeMarco [00:26:45]:
Exactly, mister t. I pity the fool. Yeah. Yeah. With that with that swedge and that upswept, you know, that that would just open open someone up. But I have recently been, getting into, discovering outdoors stuff a little bit more, like survival skills, starting fires and carving stuff up a little bit and this and that.

Cary Orefice [00:27:08]:
I'm trying

Bob DeMarco [00:27:08]:
to get a little bit more outdoors, and I'm starting to look again Hey. At your KEP hearts. This is the Razorback. Right?

Cary Orefice [00:27:16]:
Razorback. The, Ridgeback.

Bob DeMarco [00:27:17]:
Ridgeback. I'm sorry. Razorback. What?

Cary Orefice [00:27:19]:
I didn't know.

Bob DeMarco [00:27:20]:
There it is. And and so it first came out in in the, Scandi ground blade, which I love, and Yes. You know, it's got a nice heft to it because of all the meat on the blade. And then when it came out with the full flat ground, I was like,

Cary Orefice [00:27:32]:
woah. Yes.

Bob DeMarco [00:27:34]:
To me, this, like, really shot up past this. But now that I'm actually starting to noodle around outside, I'm coming back to this one now.

Cary Orefice [00:27:44]:
That that thing cuts like a laser. It's crazy how good that cuts. But, yes, what a great chopper, batoning and stuff. And then the other one gives you that, I don't know, feather sticking a little bit more. I mean, they both do the same thing, but the flak grind kinda changes it up for you a little bit.

Bob DeMarco [00:28:01]:
It does. I mean, to me, this is, this I see more as, an all arounder. This is like a put it on the put it on the belt for for backyard cleanup and and camping and everything, but this to me is like, yeah. I'm gonna carve a spoon, or I'm going to, like, make a shelter or something. You know what I'm saying? Like Yes.

Cary Orefice [00:28:20]:
I

Bob DeMarco [00:28:20]:
have used this to baton.

Cary Orefice [00:28:22]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:28:23]:
I use this, to baton, the kiln dried wood I get at the grocery store, you know, which is nice.

Cary Orefice [00:28:29]:
You know,

Bob DeMarco [00:28:29]:
I'm a I'm a suburban adventurer, and it pops it right open. I think that's that. So, you know, you you you're kind of halfway between you know, you make these very great outdoors knives, and then you also make this, which is marketed as an outdoors knife, but let's face it. It's a little bit also tactical. How

Cary Orefice [00:28:48]:
do you

Bob DeMarco [00:28:48]:
how do you decide or, like, what what's the inspiration? What half the time it's adventure gear, half the time it's battle gear. What what's the distinction?

Cary Orefice [00:28:58]:
I think I I think I remember telling you the story on that. You named that, and I love the name. It's so good. Uh-huh. The back the back alley.

Bob DeMarco [00:29:06]:
Yeah. The back alley.

Cary Orefice [00:29:09]:
So good. And so it could be either the back alley or the back country. So it's that mix between the tactical and that. And, really, what what it came down to is, and I think I explained that to you that Amazon was getting a little weird and oversensitive about knives. And so instead of calling it the back alley or something like that where it's totally tactical Yeah. Because it does have a pretty good people take it out, they take it in, and they they use it in the woods, they use it camping, and it really works like that. It just looks not it doesn't look like a typical Yeah. Camping knife.

Cary Orefice [00:29:45]:
But, I just kinda went that direction just to kinda see how it would go, and it went pretty well.

Bob DeMarco [00:29:51]:
Well, you know, I I see a recurve, and, of course, I think, oh, that's combat. But, and it's a, it's a really beautiful blade.

Cary Orefice [00:29:58]:
But it's good also that recurve you can get in there, you know, feather stick and all that.

Bob DeMarco [00:30:02]:
That's exactly what I was gonna say. This actually happens to be just an extremely useful blade. It's just my eye. My eye sees it, and, actually, it reminds me a little bit of a Walter Brend, blade shape, that his number 2.

Cary Orefice [00:30:16]:
Nice. Which is

Bob DeMarco [00:30:18]:
just something I'm fond of.

Cary Orefice [00:30:19]:
But Yeah. Well, it's interesting because I you you know, I'm friends with the local, cops, the canine cops, okay? Uh-huh.

Bob DeMarco [00:30:26]:
So

Cary Orefice [00:30:27]:
I I'm I'm involved with them and they're they're when they raise money and all this sort of thing, they're great guys. And I hook them up with knives every now and then and so forth, and so it's interesting to see what they choose. And my 2 guys did their own little rig on their belt, they have all this gear, but he picked that knife for the blackout one for his tactical use. So I found that interesting that he he picked the back alley, which is the back country for his police work, you know?

Bob DeMarco [00:30:57]:
Yeah.

Cary Orefice [00:30:58]:
And, the other day he told me a story. You know, they got a canine, his his dog is is named Thor. I mean, it looks like Thor this dog, it comes up to here on me, its head's this big, it's just unbelievable. And he and he had me, he had me hide a knife. He goes, okay, take this knife and go hide it somewhere outside the warehouse. Just make it really, really hard. So he said so he takes the knife, the dog sniffs the knife, and then he he stayed inside the warehouse. I go outside and I go outside of a fence, he said to make it hard, and I slip it under a fence and I push it as far as I could.

Cary Orefice [00:31:36]:
And then he gives him these crazy commands. Thor runs outside, turns around, sniffs around, going crazy, jumps over the fence.

Bob DeMarco [00:31:45]:
Oh my goodness.

Cary Orefice [00:31:46]:
Grabs the knife, jumps back over. I'm like, these guys are the best. It was awesome. Anyway, that's my my, canine story. It was so cool. So they stop by every now and then. Pretty cool.

Bob DeMarco [00:31:57]:
Well, make sure you have everything hidden before they come over. Anything illicit. Yeah. Actually, I was I was at work once, and they did the same thing with, it was a, I was shooting a video for the police around here, and they wanted to show off. They had a basset hound, like, right out of a movie, and he found me. You know? I I hid in the woods. He found me, and he was so cute about it too. It wasn't scary.

Bob DeMarco [00:32:18]:
It

Cary Orefice [00:32:18]:
was just

Bob DeMarco [00:32:18]:
the cops that were scary.

Cary Orefice [00:32:20]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:32:21]:
Okay. So when you made the switch to this, what was the need? I I am interested. Why did you and do you offer both? That is the Scandi ground version of the Ridgeback and now the Flatground.

Cary Orefice [00:32:33]:
I let the the Scandis fade out, and I'm deciding if I bring it back. I've had some people ask about it. For the most part, the Scandi grind didn't sell at they when it sold, it was great and everybody loved it and rave reviews. It just didn't sell as quickly. I don't know if it's the grind and people who aren't familiar with that type of grind doesn't they can't compute or know what the heck that is. It's not a typical look. But the knife guys or people that are really out doing real work out there, they loved it. And so it was just more of a sales situation where it didn't sell as quickly, but when it did, people loved it.

Cary Orefice [00:33:17]:
So that's all. I'd love to make more. I might make more. I think I will, and maybe round the handle just a hair. It's a little squared off for me. So I might round it just a tad and make a few extra changes, maybe, more of a 90 degree angle on that one for, you know, striking a ferro rod and things like that, you know. So it's on my mind. Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:33:42]:
Oh, I I'm sure I'm sure it's a constant, well, it's like when you make a painting, you hang it on the wall. Every time you look at it or walk by it, you're like, you know, I really botched that hand or whatever.

Cary Orefice [00:33:54]:
Yeah. It's a great analogy. That really is.

Bob DeMarco [00:33:56]:
So so then you you get to change, and that's a that is, something that I talk about when I talk about off grid knives and you a lot, is the fact that you're nimble enough well, that you care enough and listen enough to make changes, but you're nimble enough as a company to, to make these kind of changes as you hear your your, customers' preferences and such. For people who don't know, tell me a little bit about your business and and and how you can be that nimble.

Cary Orefice [00:34:31]:
Yeah. I mean, we're definitely, we're a small family business so that already, you know, you have less moving parts in that respect. I can make decisions quickly and execute the decisions fast. And, typically, I I don't I make sure that I don't be a perfectionist about things Mhmm. Which speeds things up. If you don't, you'll never it will never be get released. But most of the time, it's really just the fact that I'm a smaller company and that I can just make these decisions without much, it was just like, boom, if that's what I wanna do. But the most important thing for me, no joke, is listening to the customers.

Cary Orefice [00:35:16]:
And so I take these knives, I send them out to the market, and when people use them, I get the feedback, they'll email me, they'll leave those reviews whether it's a good or a bad. I'll always email them if I can get their email. I'll ask them questions specifically, what didn't you like? And then I hear what Most of the time, if people don't like it, you're gonna hear about it. But And most of the people that like it, they just like it and they won't say anything. So

Bob DeMarco [00:35:42]:
They just use it and shut up.

Cary Orefice [00:35:44]:
Yeah, exactly. It's just a really good night. But it's it's very, very important to me from the beginning to make sure that I listen and I make those changes and I've been doing that from day 1 because drop the ego, let it go. If you're, you know, it doesn't bother me. If you don't like something, I'm cool with it. That's okay because I will likely make changes if there's enough people kinda saying the same thing. Can't make everyone happy.

Bob DeMarco [00:36:11]:
Yeah. Yeah. And and and that spirit is an absolute necessity if you're going into business, I would think. But do you think it or in your experience or from what you've seen from others, is that a hard thing to do when you're in a creative field and you're making something, and and a lot of blood, sweat, and tears goes into that. Is that a difficult thing to divorce yourself from?

Cary Orefice [00:36:36]:
Sometimes. I mean, I think early on, it was a little harder. And, really it it comes down to fairness. If someone's very they have a very nitpicky thing, and trust me, knife guys can get pretty nitpicky. And that's okay. But, a lot of times if it's that nitpicky, I let it go, that's okay. If it's a major flaw, which generally at this point I I feel like I haven't made those mistakes since the early days, which is you learn, you know? And, but if I do hear something, I it doesn't bother me, it won't bother me. And and that's really important.

Cary Orefice [00:37:18]:
Make those notes. If there's enough people barking about it, then really look at it and then go back to the drawing board.

Bob DeMarco [00:37:26]:
Presumably, that's why everything every one of your knives has a sunken clip with the flat screws and all that. You you latched on to that quickly. I was like, that's a

Cary Orefice [00:37:36]:
smart move. Yeah. I I heard that from someone. I don't know where I heard that.

Bob DeMarco [00:37:40]:
Probably everyone. A chorus a chorus of dorks. So I would, your relationships with these manufacturers, as as off grid knives, as, someone who's been, partnered with these manufacturers, since 2016 in one Yeah. Version or another. Do those relationships help in maintaining that sort of nimbleness? In other words, if I decided, I'm gonna make a knife and it's gonna be just like Kerry's, and I'm gonna call Bestech tomorrow, they'd be like, yeah. That'll be for, like, 4 years till

Cary Orefice [00:38:15]:
I can get to you. I think so. No doubt. Especially over there, they appreciate loyalty. They appreciate consistency, and it really And it's the same, I think, anywhere for the most part, but there are different cultural things that you have to pick up on and be weary of. But in general, it just comes down to consistency and when you start to because I'm I don't really, to make those changes, I don't I don't make it too difficult on them. At this point, I'm pretty good at laying it down. And and if there's something that isn't just right, a lot of times, if it's okay, I'll let it roll.

Cary Orefice [00:38:59]:
And generally, no one will say a thing about it. Mhmm. And so you learn to kinda just say, Yeah, that's cool. Let's go with it. And and just pull back a little bit, and they appreciate that. And that will speed things up. So, man, it could take a long time to get a knife out as you know, and you had yours made, here. Right?

Bob DeMarco [00:39:18]:
The, well, the one that you were holding is, made by a custom maker, yeah, up in in Massachusetts. So, yeah. Hogtooth. Hogtooth. Yeah. And it was a very, very small batch and we're buddies, so it wasn't it wasn't that there was no communication thing.

Cary Orefice [00:39:35]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a little different overseas, but you learn. It's it's really a learning process. I mean, right now it's true. So if I need to go back into the back into the like for the the scorpion, that was a fast once once I saw the mamba v 3 and I saw the MagnaCut was cutting like a laser and everything was great, I immediately jumped on it.

Cary Orefice [00:39:59]:
We worked on the design back and forth, back and forth, and I pulled the trigger. So we're off running and hopefully get it before Christmas. So we'll see. That'll mean that it moves pretty fast.

Bob DeMarco [00:40:12]:
Yeah. I think I think going with, this as your most recent elite model, I think this was such a great move. Thank you. The size the the knife, it's one of my favorite profiles of of yours for sure.

Cary Orefice [00:40:24]:
Excellent. Love that.

Bob DeMarco [00:40:26]:
And then also the fact that it's a large knife, but it still feels more svelte in pocket than the Enforcer XL.

Cary Orefice [00:40:33]:
I

Bob DeMarco [00:40:33]:
have Yeah. I I have a couple of these as you know. But There you go. Yeah. The Red Dawn, man. This thing is so awesome.

Cary Orefice [00:40:40]:
Yes. Yes.

Bob DeMarco [00:40:41]:
But I

Cary Orefice [00:40:42]:
have a

Bob DeMarco [00:40:42]:
I'm sorry.

Cary Orefice [00:40:43]:
I was gonna say one more thing. I am going to be work I am working with another company, Kunwu, who, I know you know them. Yeah. And a lot of people know them. Their reputation's big, but they just started working with makers. They actually reached out to me. I looked and I didn't know much about them. And so, from what I see, they make some really incredible artistic, really super nice stuff.

Cary Orefice [00:41:10]:
So I have a really nice design on that one that I'm excited about. I don't know if it's gonna be MagnaCut, but it's gonna be it's gonna be a fancy schmancy knife.

Bob DeMarco [00:41:22]:
Nice. Kungwu, I have one knife by them, and it's exquisite. And it's a, they did it with, Les George and Alan Elishewitz. It's their

Cary Orefice [00:41:32]:
Okay.

Bob DeMarco [00:41:33]:
Their eck folder. It's an integral. So would this be under your shingle, or would it be, Cary Ariface designing for Kunwu?

Cary Orefice [00:41:44]:
No. It's, it's gonna be an off grid knives. I made it. It it was something that I actually had. I had a, I can't believe I didn't bring it. I had a prototype made by Bestech and then ended up saying this needs to be next I don't know, just it needed a little bit more. They reached out, the timing was good, I jumped in with them, And so we've gone back and forth on this. We're gonna do an EDC version.

Cary Orefice [00:42:11]:
It's called Polaris. So I'm gonna do the Polaris EDC, Polaris XL. And so we're gonna have, the 2 variations. I'm working on one with the the regular swoop clip and one with the,

Bob DeMarco [00:42:24]:
Sculpt clip.

Cary Orefice [00:42:25]:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. And so I said, I wanna see both, so we're gonna work on that. Anyway, I'm excited about that one, and we'll see how that goes.

Bob DeMarco [00:42:34]:
So without without, spilling the tea, give us some sort of, inspiration for the knife. What is the like, tell us a little bit about the knife without telling us too much.

Cary Orefice [00:42:46]:
The, what I've never done on any of my folders, and a lot of folders have this, is, you know, you'll have that hole right here where you can do the flick.

Bob DeMarco [00:42:55]:
Yeah.

Cary Orefice [00:42:56]:
And I wanted that. I was thinking of making a, you know, a button lock. I was thinking of making a, access lock type situation. And so I'm kicking around those. It didn't work out with that design, didn't feel good, but I'm gonna basically have kind of a gap right in here so you'll be able to flip it as the normal flipper and then you'll be able to flick it, which I don't have on any of my knives. People complain that I don't have thumb studs. And let me I don't like thumb studs. So it's a personal thing.

Cary Orefice [00:43:30]:
I don't like them. I just want the flipper there. It keeps the the blade nice and clean, and that's just me. And people are like, I want thumb studs. I said, alright. Beat it.

Bob DeMarco [00:43:41]:
Take it on the aches. If anyone is gonna have a thumb stud, I feel like the Rhino has room for a a stud or a or a hole.

Cary Orefice [00:43:50]:
It does.

Bob DeMarco [00:43:51]:
You know, it's funny. I I, everyone who watches this show knows I've been complaining because I hurt my thumb, and and I'm getting feeling back in it and all that. And and I have been despising I haven't been carrying anything with a thumb stud because my thumb is so sensitive. So lately, it's been all about, all about the flippers. Yeah.

Cary Orefice [00:44:12]:
Got it. Yeah. Oh, nice. What was I gonna say? Oh, I am working on a, division of off grid knives, which is gonna be off grid gear. So I'm making, it's so just how we kinda have Civivi. Mhmm. So I'm gonna be taking a lot of knives. So what I'm trying to do is in the lower, make them with the best fit and finish as possible, drop the steel to say a 7 CR or a 9 CR or something like that.

Cary Orefice [00:44:44]:
Mhmm. It could be aluminum handles, it could be FRN handles and things like that, but just make them as as nice as I can make them so that the designs will still be great, they'll be robust, but I want those price points down. Yeah. It's it's needed. I need that. It feels like some of my stuff is priced out even though, you know, $80 is a lot of money. So, I wanna get something down lower, but it'll still have that off grid feel to it, but it's gonna be my similar Civivi type situation. It'll be an off grid gear knife.

Cary Orefice [00:45:17]:
Yeah. That will open up also to, you know, I I made like a prototype, a compass, old school compass. So I can make fun stuff like that that are outside the norm of the typical fire starters and things like that. So that just opens up a channel to develop and create camping, survival, self defense, even possible gardening type situations, and things like that will be off grid gear.

Bob DeMarco [00:45:50]:
Well, this is, I mean, your big love, I mean, just from talking to you in the past, besides making knives or what really pushed you into designing knives is your love of outdoors and, the the sort of outdoor adventure kinda stuff. So it it makes it stands to reason you'd be releasing gear for that kinda stuff, not just knives. Right.

Cary Orefice [00:46:12]:
Yeah. Yeah. It was something I've been thinking about for a long time, and so finally, it's starting to come to fruition. And and I'm close, and I'm I'm working on it. So fixed blades, I'll have the folders, really nice price points, and I think people will be really happy with the quality and they they won't break the bank. And and so I could be moving those a lot faster and and creating more volume with those.

Bob DeMarco [00:46:37]:
It's it's sort of a a there's this term that that I like which is or an expression, per perfect is the enemy of the good. The perfect is the enemy of

Cary Orefice [00:46:46]:
the good.

Bob DeMarco [00:46:47]:
So you can spend you know, you were talking about the back and forth with with your manufacturers and how Yes. You see something that's just ultra nitpicky. You'll just let it go.

Cary Orefice [00:46:56]:
Yes.

Bob DeMarco [00:46:58]:
That is a perfect example of perfect as the enemy of the good. You could go back and forth, for the rest of time and and wait for perfection and never get never sell a knife. Similar to coming out with your own Lexus well, not Lexus. I guess off grid is the Lexus to your new Toyota line, if you will. Right. Or off grid gear.

Cary Orefice [00:47:18]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:47:19]:
Yeah. Meaning, it's, like, the materials aren't perfect. You might be getting 14th t 28 n. Right. And FRN, but it's still Right. The stout build and the and the beautiful design.

Cary Orefice [00:47:31]:
Exactly. Because, look, if you make it extremely sharp with excellent fit and finish, a lot most people do you think most people on Amazon know the difference between FRN and g ten or Right. Or carrier. Yeah. Don't or the steels. They don't know 7, CR and this. As long as it performs, as long as it doesn't break and it's not chipping and things like that, we'll make sure the heat treatment's right. As long as all that's on point, most people don't matter.

Cary Orefice [00:48:02]:
As knife nerds, we we we it matters, Right? Like, we really think about it and we go, yeah. Most people don't. So I'm just trying to find kind of the out outside of the knife community world Yeah. To buy my stuff, and I think off grid gears is a perfect avenue for that.

Bob DeMarco [00:48:21]:
Yeah. It sounds like it. And and, you know, I think a lot of people, there's there are either people who, when their knife gets dull, they sharpen it, but they're not you know, they don't they just get it sharp at at whatever cost, and then that they burn through that knife. Or there are people who are like, when it's just so dull, it's not gonna cut. They're just gonna throw it in a drawer and buy a new knife. Right. So Right. So, a lot of it you're right.

Bob DeMarco [00:48:45]:
Like, the steel doesn't matter. And and, yeah, I was just recently thinking about d 2 and remembering how when d 2 first came out, it was expensive. It was like I remember I got a I got a a ProTech in d 2. I was like, oh, sweet. I have d 2 now. And now it's like, oh. You know?

Cary Orefice [00:49:03]:
I love d 2. Sorry.

Bob DeMarco [00:49:05]:
Yeah. I love it. D 2 is awesome. You make a better steal. But but it's just funny, like, most people don't care, and d 2 is is a better steal than most of us will need in a 100 years.

Cary Orefice [00:49:20]:
Yeah. And that's why I started cryo treating it just to give it that little bit of an edge, just to make it a little bit better, and that's been working really well. People, once they use it, they stop complaining. And and they're happy about it because the price point is right, and then it's tough as nails, and it goes forever without needing to sharpen. It's really nice. I love the steel. I admit it.

Bob DeMarco [00:49:42]:
Oh, oh, yeah. Me too. Now there there is something I was thinking about because, like I said, I've been here here's one I I haven't I haven't busted out. This one, I haven't really used at all, but, man, what an awesome knife. And I I see this in my future as I get more, into doing, outdoorsy kinda things for fun. Yes. Well, what about a hatchet? What about an off grid, ax, hatchet, or tomahawk? Is that in the off grid?

Cary Orefice [00:50:08]:
I I should have mentioned that. I'm gonna be releasing the hatchets will be in the off grid gear section.

Bob DeMarco [00:50:15]:
Okay.

Cary Orefice [00:50:15]:
So I already have made so many prototypes. It's ridiculous. So I have those waiting in the wings and those will be under the off grid gear label, but that's those will all be ready to rock.

Bob DeMarco [00:50:29]:
So are you thinking that, like, like full tang, like the modern tomahawks we've seen a lot of, or more like an ax, like, one of these kind of axes with

Cary Orefice [00:50:38]:
Probably everything from a hand hatchet type situation where it also has the hammer on the back.

Bob DeMarco [00:50:44]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Cary Orefice [00:50:46]:
I've tested I mean, it's it's a trick hatchets are tricky. You're getting into a whole different animal over here And, and the steels, you know, I go out and I really I I pound on these things and I make sure and, that they're okay. And I really haven't had one that that passed yet. I have the designs, but I need the steel to be right. It's not right yet. I'll get it right.

Bob DeMarco [00:51:12]:
It's gotta be something it I mean, you're looking for, like, mostly tough toughness impact. Right? Like

Cary Orefice [00:51:18]:
Yeah. A beater. You need it to absolutely crush. So that's something I'm gonna do. I'm excited about that. And and the one that you just showed, which is the x 2, that's the tracker x 2. Mhmm. So I'm gonna be making a 3rd version of that, and then I think you'll like this.

Cary Orefice [00:51:36]:
I'm gonna make an XXL of that. Nice. So kinda like what I did with the, about about the same length as the Cayman XXL. Mhmm. And it'll it'll be that knife that you just showed, in a so it'll almost be like a it'll look similar to a machete ish situation. Oh, yeah. So if you picture that in in in a, you know, an 8 inch or something like that, I think that would, yeah. Yeah.

Cary Orefice [00:52:06]:
And so that will be something that I'm working on right now. So that's Yeah. So picture that. That'll be a good chopper.

Bob DeMarco [00:52:13]:
So let me ask you this. As a as a experienced camper, outdoorsman, when you go, but also as a knifemaker, when you go out there, in the bush, do you bring a hatchet or ax, or do you bring a knife? Lately, I've been, my I've been my eyes have been wandering towards axes.

Cary Orefice [00:52:33]:
I I have. Yes. I have. I just haven't had any of my own and Okay. And, which you know, the ones that I that I have in prototypes and stuff like that, I've I've used and and done. So a lot of times, if I do, I I love the Oh, yeah. AlphaDog. It's one of my favorites.

Cary Orefice [00:52:52]:
It's it's got, like, a cult following. It's funny. But, this one's a good one. Like, if you really wanna bring something out there that you know is gonna absolutely do some damage

Bob DeMarco [00:53:02]:
and Yeah.

Cary Orefice [00:53:02]:
You can do anything you want with it, that's a really good one. I love that one. But I'm also coming out with this is gonna be I I wanted a scout carry, EDC fixed blade, similar to yours. So you you have a nice EDC size. Yeah. And I did kind of a similar thing, except, you know, of course, my handle's gonna be, you know, a little bit thicker and so forth. So it's got that it's got the it's got the backcountry or back back alley blade, and it's got the swoop in here with the jimping. And, yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:53:41]:
That is so cool, man.

Cary Orefice [00:53:42]:
Yeah. It's fun. It's really, really fun. So I'm excited. This just went into production. It's called the sidekick.

Bob DeMarco [00:53:48]:
And so this is the shit out of that. Yeah. She's my French, but that that is a that's a that's a nice nice looking knife, man. And and, I mean, because, I carry EDC fixed blade 2 different ways, either scout carry on the front, like you have it set up for there, like, right in front of my belt buckle, or in the waistband at 3 o'clock. And in the waistband at 3 o'clock, I need that curved handle to accommodate my I'm a man of a certain age. You know? I got some a little extra here,

Cary Orefice [00:54:17]:
and that curved

Bob DeMarco [00:54:18]:
handle looks like it'd be pretty comfortable.

Cary Orefice [00:54:21]:
Yes. It is. And so, this is the prototype version, but we've officially gone into production on this. It took a while. You know, what really took a long time was getting the correct, scout carry and also vertical carry clip correct.

Bob DeMarco [00:54:36]:
Oh.

Cary Orefice [00:54:37]:
I ended up getting one that it it's not this one. It's it's similar, but it'll it'll notch left and right. Okay. So you can notch it, notch it, notch it, and go all the way over. So you can just turn it. Yeah. But it's got a lot of, torque to it.

Bob DeMarco [00:54:52]:
Similar to, like, what TOPS has offered.

Cary Orefice [00:54:54]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Bob DeMarco [00:54:56]:
Oh, that's cool.

Cary Orefice [00:54:57]:
So I'm excited about that one. That's a good one. And then something else I thought was similar to yours was the hoglet. I don't know if you ever had the hoglet in your head.

Bob DeMarco [00:55:06]:
Oh yeah. I got I got the hoglet. I love the hoglet.

Cary Orefice [00:55:10]:
So this one this guy, I mean, it people love this one. I'm I call it one of my most comfortable knives I've ever made. It's very comfortable. It melts and then this look look at how it has that kinda s turn at the top. Yep. And then it's got the jimping, of course, the extra, and bam, your thumb hits right on it, and it's got that kinda cleaver ish look to it. Great all around camp, everything nice. So it it can it's an EDC fixed blade, so I wanted to add another to this.

Bob DeMarco [00:55:45]:
You you don't design these necessarily for cardboard cutting, but I I can't help but I gotta mention it here again.

Cary Orefice [00:55:54]:
Like, you know what

Bob DeMarco [00:55:55]:
I mean? Yeah. I don't know why, but they always outperform other things in that in that task. They work great at other stuff too, obviously, but, man, for for cardboard, they just zip. And and I I have to I have to imagine that has a lot to do with, the the geometry, the broadness of the blades, the the thinness of the stock you choose. They're just great, great cutters.

Cary Orefice [00:56:19]:
It's true. You mentioned that a lot. Now I I always laugh when I hear say, oh, these are great cardboard cutters. And so I just

Bob DeMarco [00:56:26]:
it's just funny. You know, they're also great at other things. Like I

Cary Orefice [00:56:29]:
I know.

Bob DeMarco [00:56:30]:
Vanquishing your bows and

Cary Orefice [00:56:32]:
Right. Right. Exactly. And then I think you you have do you have the Sierra? This is the the the new,

Bob DeMarco [00:56:38]:
oh, no. That's cool. That no. I I remember seeing that. Donnie b all day, I think, showed this one off.

Cary Orefice [00:56:45]:
Yeah. This yes. So this is the other chef knife. So I wanted to do something that was a little bit smaller than the Grizzly. Mhmm. And so came out with this, and it's got that geometry, that triangular kinda geometry, tons enough appearance. And I mean, it's it's robust but also super thin like the, like the Grizzly v two. So people love this in the kitchen.

Cary Orefice [00:57:13]:
My wife uses it all the time. It's a it's a home run. My mom uses it. She loves it.

Bob DeMarco [00:57:18]:
Oh, nice.

Cary Orefice [00:57:18]:
So so very

Bob DeMarco [00:57:20]:
cool. Shape reminds me. You know, obviously, it looks like a a traditional European, chef's knife, but it also looks like a French fighting knife. And like that gaucho, the the Argentinian cowboy knife too. It's got a cool you know what I mean? Like, that that shape isn't just a chef's knife shape. It's also like a a proven outdoor Yeah. Outdoor knot. And it looks like with that sharpening notch, it looks like you could sharpen that, like, a lot up up to that, yeah.

Cary Orefice [00:57:50]:
Yeah. Up to that plunge grind. So this was a fun one. It it, you know, it people, when they see this and it's, it's it's marketed as a camping chef knife, but also barbecue and stuff. So I got some pit masters who were buzzing me up saying, you know, they have this on their side while they're just grilling tons of meat outside, pit master, don't great. They love it. So most, chef knives are not gonna have, you know, this type of setup Yeah. Like you would.

Cary Orefice [00:58:20]:
Right? And so they freaked out when they found this. So it's getting around. The word's getting out to the pit master. That's cool. Yeah. That's pretty cool.

Bob DeMarco [00:58:28]:
Be the be the the barbecuer's knife of choice.

Cary Orefice [00:58:31]:
Yeah. Exactly. I love it.

Bob DeMarco [00:58:33]:
Hey, Kerry. Before I let you go, I know that there are a lot of people, knife enthusiasts, who frankly would like to be in your shoes. I might consider myself one of them, but, you know, it's not easy being a owning a knife company, I would imagine. But I I would also imagine you probably have a couple of good words of advice for someone out there who is an enthusiast who wants to break through and and do a little bit

Cary Orefice [00:58:58]:
more with knives. What would you tell them? Yeah. I I would say that if if there was ever a time to approach, a business, it could be any business where you're gonna sell something. So if we talk knives, to throw something out into the market, and see how it goes. 1st, you're gonna have to develop, you're gonna have to do all these things, and it's gonna be tough and difficult, and you're gonna have to find the right people to do it. If you stick with it and just launch 1, just get it out there, sell it on Ebay, do anything, and it'll teach you the ropes. It'll force you to go through the motions. And as you go through the motions to And I'm talking primarily to sell online.

Bob DeMarco [00:59:39]:
Mhmm.

Cary Orefice [00:59:39]:
So selling online's where it's at, especially when you start. Don't even think about anything else. Just get your stuff online. It could be Etsy. It could be anything. Get it out there, show people your stuff, and start selling it, and you'll start to get feedback. When you get feedback, make those changes. When you make the changes, you do it.

Cary Orefice [00:59:57]:
And as they start to sell, you you a light bulb's gonna go off and you go, oh, I think I can do this. And then you make another one. And then you just take your time and work your way up. So start small, but be very persistent. Don't stop.

Bob DeMarco [01:00:12]:
Oh, I love that. Start small, be very, very persistent. You started with one pen and one knife Yeah. And look up where you

Cary Orefice [01:00:18]:
are now. Let me say this real quick. I gotta get this in.

Bob DeMarco [01:00:22]:
Oh, yeah.

Cary Orefice [01:00:22]:
So I I did start with a tactical pen back in the day. And so it was always on my mind to make a new tactical pen. Now this doesn't look like a tactical pen and that was kind of the point. So I made a bolt action tactical pen, and every tactical pen, go on Amazon, they're all tricked out, they look all tactical, they are obviously If you're in the airport, it's gonna get taken away. This is very inconspicuous, clean, it's got the hexagon texture in the front, so it's nice to write with. But here's the good part, so let's say, the bad guy's coming, or you gotta break a window, or something like that, it's one pop and you're there, it's already done. So the tungsten carbide is there. Nice.

Cary Orefice [01:01:08]:
And so it's so fast, but here's the best part, most don't have this, they have a tip on the other side or something uncomfortable. This will open up the other side to have a flat part for your finger. Now you have a striker. And it 1, it's lightning quick to deploy. And then also, I had these, the ink from Germany imported, so I really wanted it to write well. I wanted people to actually use it to write. So this is my, second tactical pen going back to the very beginning, so I thought I'd do an homage to my very first thing that I started. But this is really exciting, I love this thing.

Cary Orefice [01:01:46]:
I got the copper on it and it's it's really it's fun. It's fun.

Bob DeMarco [01:01:51]:
That pun was unintended when I said right on. But so when when, is this, something we can buy now? Is that out now?

Cary Orefice [01:01:57]:
Yes. So I just it just got released. Okay. It's, it's on Amazon and it's on my website. So it's called the Bolt Tactical Pen. So I I came out and there it is, the Bolt Tactical Pen. So pretty excited about this. It's it's it's like an XL pen.

Cary Orefice [01:02:14]:
So you know me with the XL. Yeah. It's an XL pen because I know. There you go.

Bob DeMarco [01:02:19]:
Well, Kerry, I I wanna thank you for, a, coming on the show. Also, I wanna thank you for for sending us this. We are gonna be giving this away to, Gentleman Junkie, this month. That's the Bullet v 2. This is such an awesome bit driver. I have the v one. I love it. Use it all the time.

Bob DeMarco [01:02:35]:
Nice. And then, of course, the beautiful, Mamba v 3 that we've been talking about all night. Kerry, thanks so much for coming on. It's always a pleasure talking with you and getting an update from the off grid world. I appreciate it, sir.

Cary Orefice [01:02:50]:
I appreciate you. Thank you so much.

Advertisement Announcer [01:02:52]:
Adventure delivered. Your monthly subscription for handpicked outdoor, survival, EDC, and other cool gear from our expert team of outdoor professionals. The knifejunkie.com/battlebox.

Bob DeMarco [01:03:05]:
There he goes, ladies and gentlemen. Kerry Orufice of Off Grid Knives, of an inspirational, knife company story. I love hearing that. Starting off with one product and working your way, just seems like a smart way to do it. Can't wait to check out that pen, the Bolt pen, and, of course, if you're interested in winning your very own Mamba v 3, in titanium and MagnaCut. Yes. Four inches of razor sharp MagnaCut. Go check us out at the knifejunkie.com/patreon.

Bob DeMarco [01:03:39]:
Alright. For Jim working his magic behind the switcher, I'm Bob DeMarco saying until next time, don't take dull for an answer.

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