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Announcer [00:00:03]:
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast, your weekly dose of knife news and information about knives and knife collecting. Here's your host, Bob the knife junkie DeMarco.

Bob DeMarco [00:00:16]:
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast. I'm your host, Bob DeMarco. On this edition of the show, I'm speaking with custom knife maker and knife designer, Dirk Pinkerton. You hear me talk a lot about Dirk and his knives on the midweek supplemental and Thursday night knives because his designs are inspired by knives from across history and cultures, and you know that really appeals to me. His folder designs are produced by some of the finest manufacturers in the world, and his custom fixed blade knives are incredibly interesting, functional, and masterfully made. I'm honored he sends me prototypes to check out, and we have couple of them here tonight. We'll talk all about them and a whole lot more. But first, be sure to like, comment, subscribe, hit that notification bell, and download the show to your favorite podcast app, podcast application.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:03]:
And if you'd like to help support the show, you can do so by logging on to Patreon, by going to the knifejunkie.com/patreon and checking out our three tiers of support. Again, that's the knifejunkie.com/patreon.

Announcer [00:01:17]:
Do you use terms like handle to blade ratio, walk and talk, hair popping sharp, or tank like? Then you are a dork and a knife junkie.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:26]:
Dirk, it's so good to see you. Welcome back to the Knife Junkie podcast, sir.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:01:30]:
It's good to be back. Thanks for having me back on.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:33]:
My pleasure. We missed you this year at blade show, but we got a chance to see your 2 new knives from ArtisanCutlery. I'm just gonna come right out and say congratulations on the release of these 2, Meisterstuchen in German. Meister masterpieces, especially for me, the Kami. I love the Kami. This is the Kami and the Banjarra, 2 very, very ethnically and culturally inspired knives. Congratulations on their release, sir.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:01:59]:
Thank you very much. I was very, very excited when the artisan asked to see some new designs, and then I was very excited when they said, let's bring the commie on and then even more excited when they said, hey, what about that one? And, yeah, I mean, they they followed on each other really fast. So I was I was tickled pink, and I think they did a really excellent job in executing the the design.

Bob DeMarco [00:02:26]:
I wanna talk about the commie for a minute. This, as you can see from the pork stains in the micarta, this one gets a whole lot of use, a whole lot of carry. It's got kind of everything I love in it. It's got micarta. It's got titanium. It's a frame lock. But way more than that, it's got this incredible recurve blade. It's got a flipper, a thumb plate, which is a thumb disc, which is something you're very, fond of using.

Bob DeMarco [00:02:51]:
And it's got this beautiful bracketing handle here. So it's great in reverse grip, forward grip. I know you're always thinking about EDC, but you're also always thinking about self defense. Tell us about where that commie came from. And that's not c o m m I e, by the way.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:03:07]:
Correct. Yes. It's kami, k a m I, the, the bladesmiths that make the actual, kukris in Nepal. And you can thank, Artisan for that. They're they're the ones that actually, reminded me in discussions what, who those were as as an alternate name. My initial name for the the knife was the street Gurkha, but they didn't think that would sell too well. So I kind of agreed, and we came up with a commie and that one stuck. I think that really fits.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:03:44]:
But I actually have always wanted to try and do a folding cookery, and I could never ever get proportions right. It just never clicked with me when I saw what I did. It's just it's not right. It's it's just hideous, basically. And then I saw Jason Knight's folders, and I was like, okay, now that got me thinking that's how you do it. And it made me rethink some of my designs that I have already had and made some adjustments to get the flow right and not wanting to, I didn't want to copy him, but I definitely have to say he definitely set me straight on how to get everything to do what I wanted it to do. So yeah, that was that was the inspiration that really brought it all together.

Bob DeMarco [00:04:41]:
That, Jason Knight, MK Ultra, originally released by Elements and produced by Fox. That's, that is also a favorite folder of mine, and it looks, it's it's that and the Cold Steel Raja, which to me are before this came out, before the comedy came out, the 2 my 2 favorite fold in Kukris. But the reason for that is that they seem to be very Kukri like in in in all design cues. Yes. With yours, you've got some design cues, but like with most Pinkerton knives from my perspective, it's not just settling on one knife. There's there's more going on here than just the, the Kukri, and to me personally. And that can be seen even in the blade shape. Of course, we have the downward swept deeply recurved blade, which is very Kukri esque, but a very, straight top edge.

Bob DeMarco [00:05:35]:
And, the thumb plate and then the handle is a little a little more western to me with that thumb thumb thing here. So I I appreciate the deviation. How did that play out?

Dirk Pinkerton [00:05:49]:
That actually also came from really taking a look at the Jason's, folder and thinking through I I originally wanted to really try and nail a Kukri handle as a folder. And the more I played with it, the less practical it seemed from my design language. I just couldn't get it to fit how I envisioned a knife handle to function and work as a folder. So I looked at what he did and thought of thought it through from that perspective and and thought instead of let's instead of approaching it as a a cookery folder, let's do what I've done many times before and use it as an inspiration. And let's make it something that is kind of a blend. So you have the the bird beak pommel, which comes from a multitude of cultures that helps lock the hand in. Then you have the flipper, which gives you the forward guard. Again, a multitude of cultures that have the single guard.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:06:56]:
And then I just married it with the Kukri blade. I was gonna go with the curved blade, but when I actually saw that put a straight edge on there and I that straight line on the spine, I was like, nope, that's it. That that worked with me. I like that.

Bob DeMarco [00:07:12]:
So this is the thoroughly unscientific. I mean, my my only stabbing medium has been cardboard thus far with this. I've been using this for everything, including, dinner. When I go out to dinner with my wife and family, this has been a favorite. But that straight edge on or the straight spine on the top, I I think well, it drops down to a center line point, so you kinda always know where the center is no matter how the knife is indexed, But I feel like this swedge free straight spine really forces forces the issue with the cut. When you're putting it in there, you're not there's very little give on the tops which, on the top of the spine, which really pushes that deep belly, far into whatever you're cutting. Do you do you know what I'm getting at? Like I

Dirk Pinkerton [00:08:01]:
know exactly what you mean. Yeah. You're you're basically it it's kind of a wedge. So as you drive it in, the top of the spine being broad forces the edge, the sharpened edge down into the media and increases the cutting capacity. So assistance through physics and geometry. Yeah. Like yes. Very, very, very wicked,

Bob DeMarco [00:08:22]:
blade. But also, I mean, for EDC and everything, this is such a good knife just for your average everyday cutting cutting chores. It's got a nearly full height flat grind. This one is s 35vn, and then there's another model with s 90v and a full titanium body. And I'm sure that's super awesome, but I'm attached to this. I'm attached to the mic. I love the micarta.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:08:51]:
I like the micarta myself better, just because of what micarta tends to bring to handles the warmth, the the character, and it allows it to patina in a particular manner. Whereas with titanium handles, you get snail trails and scratches, the dings, which has its own character. But I think micarta just has that uniqueness to it when it does it because it's how it reacts to your hand, what you get on it, the oils, the acids, the day to day life. That's different for everybody. Where you scratch up titanium, you scratch up titanium.

Bob DeMarco [00:09:29]:
A very famous, knife reviewer, AdvancedKnifebro, calls that, patina effect on my card, your personal filth signature, which I think is hilarious.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:09:41]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:09:41]:
I love that.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:09:42]:
That's absolutely true. That is exactly what it is, and, you definitely know where you've been when you look at it. You know, it tells a story.

Bob DeMarco [00:09:49]:
So okay. So this is the this is the kami. Also, before I I move on because I wanna show off the banjarra too, the banjarra as well. It's not the banjarra too. The sculpted clip on this, beautiful, and, there's something else I was gonna break. Well, I have forgotten in my we were talking about being a man of advanced stage. I spaced what I was about to say there, but summing up oh, I I was gonna talk about the clip. A really nice sculpted clip.

Bob DeMarco [00:10:16]:
I don't always go into the sculpted clips, but I really like that one. You also came, out this year, you and Artisan, with the banjarra, and this one was on signs all over Blade Show, these giant signs for Artisan. I think they were big sponsors of the show that they but is this this was all over the place. And, and then when I got back, you sent me one you sent me this one. I was like, oh

Dirk Pinkerton [00:10:43]:
my god. That's the one.

Bob DeMarco [00:10:44]:
Because I don't think these were available at the time. I know they were you could check them out.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:10:48]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:10:49]:
But I I don't I'm not sure if you could buy them. The bonjour. So you have 2 big releases from Artisan this year. Tell us about this one. What's the, inspiration?

Dirk Pinkerton [00:10:59]:
So, yeah, that's definitely the, the Persian style upswept blade. It falls into the Nomad family. So it started out as basically, a shortened version of the Nomad, the original Kaiser Nomad. And I wish I had one with me to show you, but they're very hard to come by nowadays. And I sold off most of mine. So, but basically, what it started out as was a shorter version of the Nomad. So that handle profile as you look at it, if you add just a little bit of length to it, that's actually not quite the right way to approach it because you would have to shrink it down to its original drawing size, which it lost about an inch, I think, inch and a quarter maybe overall on the handle. A little shorter, a little more narrow.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:11:51]:
And that was what I was doing with the Nomad, trying to shrink it down, give it a more of a pocket friendly miniature version of the Nomad and bring it down to just under a 3 inch, blade right in that category. But what happened is as I was drawing it, a translation on my CAD program upsides it a little bit somehow. So they got a slightly bigger version, which was what was made. And, yeah. When I saw the the renderings, I didn't they didn't have any measurements on it. It was just the rendering. So I'm like, yep. That looks good.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:12:26]:
Let's go with it. They prototyped it, and they sent it to me. And when I opened it up, like, oh, this isn't what I was thinking. But, actually, as I started handling it, working with it, I was like, no. I think we're gonna stay with this. We'll leave it as is. This works. Oh, yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:12:40]:
Oh my god. The shape of the handle fits so perfectly in the palm. I mean, this thing, whether it's in this sort of, forward saber grip like this or whether you're like this, and, of course, it's great in reverse with that, place to put your thumb on the downslope, which I love. But this is a very comfortable knife. I I bet smaller would be comfortable too, but, something about the length and the broadness, this is a broader, affair than the than the Nomad.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:13:08]:
Yeah. Definitely. It's, I actually widened the blade a little bit on the, drawing that I sent to them, Excuse me. Just as I was playing with it, I just it had one of those little, issues as I looked at it. No matter what angle I looked at it, something just didn't seem quite right in that drawing. So I just add a little width to it just to balance it for my personal preference. And that's why it came out a little bit dimensionally bigger, thicker or wider, I'm sorry, than you would see with the Nomad, where it had a thinner profile and in relationship to the overall blade length and width.

Bob DeMarco [00:13:52]:
The original or the Nomad itself did not have the opening hole, did it?

Dirk Pinkerton [00:13:57]:
No, it did not. And it had more of an upswept blade. So I kind of truncated the blade a little bit. Not truncated, that's the wrong word. Took some length out of the blade, kept that. So if you had extended that out and made it a little longer and then let that the top of the spine, the curve follow the natural, its natural course to where the end of the blade would normally be, it would actually be more of a upswept blade than it is. This one terminates and becomes more of a it's it's above centerline, but not by a ton.

Bob DeMarco [00:14:32]:
It's kinda like a Bowie, I mean, where the point is.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:14:35]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:14:35]:
The the whole blade has the character of a of a Persian, but, the way it's, I guess, slightly downward canted or maybe it's this, spine slope, it puts the blade where we're we're used to. You know? A a lot of complaints about Persians is where the point is, and a lot of us in the modern times are not, slashing and and taking advantage of that curve as much as we're using the point to cut stuff open. Exactly. And and and that upswept blade, yeah, upswept tip can sometimes be, a turn off for some people the way recurves are. It's like, it's not that hard to use. Just like a recurve, it's really not that hard to sharpen. What are you using, like a a medieval sharpening wheel? Like

Dirk Pinkerton [00:15:18]:
Yeah. That's kidding.

Bob DeMarco [00:15:19]:
10 inches broad? All you gotta do is have something nice and thin, you know, like a triangle stone or a circular stone.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:15:25]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And with the, the banjarra, when you just held it up, I know I didn't really make the connection until you framed it the way you did. It basically looks like the, a Bowie blade, as you said, but you cut it off at the clip point.

Bob DeMarco [00:15:40]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:15:43]:
So, yeah, as soon as you put that up, like, oh my gosh. I didn't realize I did that. Okay.

Bob DeMarco [00:15:47]:
Well, that's funny because you did that. We're not done talking about this, but you did that with this, with the with the razorback. You know, this is, I mean, you told me yourself that this was inspired not only by, Middle Eastern blades, but also the Hell's Bells Bowie by Bill Bagwell, right, with that long clip. And the clip is starting right here. If this is a Bowie, this is where the clip starts. In the intro, for those of you who who aren't familiar, I was talking about Dirk's custom knives. This is 100% handmade as as are all the other, fixed blades I have by him, and he is a a a very well respected, man at the grinder by his, by his peers. Anyway and by me.

Bob DeMarco [00:16:30]:
But, I remember mentioning you to, who was it now? A guy from Ohio, awesome knife maker, and now he escapes me. And everyone know you would know him for sure. He was like, he he I said, who who's who do you admire? He brought you up out of the blue. I had no idea you guys had he just knew you. And I will tell you afterward who he was. I'm spacing right now, but he had a foul mouth. I do remember that. Anyway, alright.

Bob DeMarco [00:17:01]:
So, s s ninety v on this. S ninety v. Yes. You've been using a lot of s ninety v, and we'll talk about one of the prototypes, that you very generously gave to me. I think I was refusing to send it back or stalling, and you're like, just keep the damn thing. But you used s 90 v on that. You've been using it a lot recently. When you do a knife like this with Artisan, do you get to pick the steel, a? And, b, what are the benefits of S90V?

Dirk Pinkerton [00:17:30]:
So, yeah, we, most of the designers working with the, the companies do have the option of selecting the steel, unless the company has a very specific, goal in mind with the knife, or they may have it you know, they see it as a budget friendly knife, so they're not gonna open up the the premium steels. So yeah, with the Artisan though, I usually have the option. They pretty much tell me, Hey, how do you see this knife? Where do you want it to go? What do you want to do with it? And tell us the material that you want to use. So S90V, one of the advantages to it basically is the edge holding on it is pretty darn good. I mean, there's very few steels that exceed S90V when it comes to edge holding. It takes a great edge. You can make it a toothy edge if you want. You can make it a polished edge, and the edge will last forever.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:18:26]:
It is a little bit of a challenge. It can be tricky to, to sharpen, But with all the sharpening aids these days, that's really not much of a hindrance now. Back in the day, yeah, it was more of a pain in the butt to sharpen. But you've got Wicked Edge, Edge Pro. You have the, Work Sharp. I mean, you name it. There's a multitude of ways to sharpen it. So, yeah, it's easy to do now.

Bob DeMarco [00:18:51]:
And, you know, for being real about it, I'm betting a lot of the people who buy this knife, or a lot of s ninety v luxury knives, that's what they are, are probably not, bringing them to the construction site. I'm I know that there are people who do take very, very fine knives and use the hell out of them, and I really admire that because, I would definitely take something less precious than this knife, say, if if I were doing hard work with it. But that's kinda where the rubber meets the road, isn't it? Like, it seems like unless you're doing that kind of really hard daily work, with an s 90 b blade, you're probably not gonna have to sharpen it. You might strop it every once in a while, if you're just using it kinda the way I do. And maybe more maybe most knife users use their knives more than I do, but Yeah. You know, because I don't really have too many uses for these things. So they don't go dull fast. So, to me, I never ever come to the outer limits of a Steel's performance, but there's still something nice about, knowing that it's a a a really high end Steel coming from a reputable, source.

Bob DeMarco [00:20:07]:
That's just super cool.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:20:08]:
Yes. Yeah. I've always so I'm not a steel snob. If you told me I could only use 440 c to make knives, I would wouldn't lose any sleep. It works great. It functions. It gets the job done for the vast majority of things you want a knife to do. You know? So but at the same time, I like all the new steels.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:20:31]:
It's fun to explore. It's fun to see what they do. It's fun to have that option. You know, I played with s 90 back a long time ago before it became popular. I liked it then, and I tried to sell it. And at the time I was playing with it, nobody wanted to mess with s 90. It was a pain in the end. So it's too hard to sharpen.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:20:50]:
We don't wanna mess with it.

Bob DeMarco [00:20:52]:
Right.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:20:53]:
So it was, okay, S35 or S30. And that was what pretty much what everybody wanted back in that time frame. And fortunately, we've come around and people now like playing with the newer steels, and they wanna see it and they wanna experiment with it. So it gives me that, that option to experiment with new steels and see what they do and have some fun.

Bob DeMarco [00:21:18]:
So when you're making a knife like this, probably my favorite of yours, the Cave Bear, are you using this one is Nitro V, but are you using those kind of super hard exotic steels in your in your handmade knives? Is that a super pain in the butt or what?

Dirk Pinkerton [00:21:35]:
It can be. S90 is really not that bad. Just make sure you have a sharp belt, and it's it's pretty good. You know, when you start doing stuff like 10 V, 15 V, some of those things, then it becomes a little more challenging. But the high end stainless, the CPMs, with the exception of maybe 110V, and even 110V isn't incredibly difficult to work with. So they're they're not that bad. But when it comes to the handmaids, it depends on the function. Most of my self defense oriented blades, I prefer to have a tougher steel.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:22:19]:
So your S35, your CPM 154 MagnaCut, 3B, if people will accept that. People are kind of weird on that one right now.

Bob DeMarco [00:22:30]:
Why are they weird on that? Because it's more of an outdoor knife or

Dirk Pinkerton [00:22:33]:
Yeah. They they don't they view it as, well, it's gonna rust, or I have to take care of it, or it's it's an older steel. That's actually the last time I was trying to convince somebody to use 3 b. They were telling me what they were gonna use it for. So 3 b is the perfect candidate. And, so, well, that's kind of an older steal. So, you know, it was like, okay.

Bob DeMarco [00:22:57]:
Alright.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:22:58]:
You say so. I mean, if that's your argument, I'm not gonna try and you know, I can't argue that. It is as as far as being out in the world, it has been around a little bit longer than, MagnaCut. So, yes.

Bob DeMarco [00:23:10]:
A little bit older, but

Dirk Pinkerton [00:23:11]:
A little older. Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:23:12]:
That's funny because, yeah, I find the 420 on my buck 110 100% adequate for 95% of the things I do.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:23:21]:
Yeah. It it it gets you that got us through how many decades before people started saying, hey. Can we do better?

Bob DeMarco [00:23:29]:
Yeah. And and how many decades of actual true hard work, of actual working men taking their knives and and, using them hard, not guys like me who collect them and hoard them and put them in cabinets and lock them up. You know? Exactly. But and and it's guys like me, admittedly, who who make those distinctions. Well, it's not it's not it's not a modern steel. So And then and I too am not a steel snob, but I gotta say, you know, if I'm paying a certain amount of money, I wanna see a certain steel or above.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:23:58]:
Yeah. I I definitely can appreciate that. You know, I I have no issue with with charging what you can charge because of your name, you know, what the reputation you've earned, your skill level, the amount of work went into design, how popular a design might be, whatever. All those things come into it. But when you're paying premium, I would rather, to your point, have someone say, here's a knife that's gonna cost you $3,000, and it has MagnaCut as opposed to here's a knife that cost you $3,000, and it has AEBL. Yeah. You know?

Bob DeMarco [00:24:37]:
I'm remembering the knife maker. I was trying to remember who who complimented you so highly. It was Sean Kendrick who

Dirk Pinkerton [00:24:44]:
was Sean. Yes. I haven't talked to him for a while. That that's really nice of him to say that.

Bob DeMarco [00:24:50]:
I mean, his stuff is incredible, and and then, you know, he kinda brought you up out of the middle of nowhere. And I was like and this is kinda well, before you and I knew each other, I knew of your work. And I was like, oh, really? Who is this guy? You know? And, coming from him, I thought that was pretty cool because I I, in at the time, held him in very high regard. Not that I don't now. I just haven't spoken with him in 80. So, that was Sean, Kendrick there. Oh, okay. So now, you sent me this prototype to check out, and this has a a different steel, which, we're gonna talk about in a minute.

Bob DeMarco [00:25:28]:
This is s 60 v, but let's talk about this knife first.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:25:35]:
Okay. That is the Siafu.

Bob DeMarco [00:25:37]:
Siafu. What does that mean?

Dirk Pinkerton [00:25:39]:
Siafu. So kinda like think of c the, Sifu, but add an a in there, Sifu. So

Bob DeMarco [00:25:47]:
Oh, Sifu. Okay.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:25:49]:
Sifu. Yeah. It's, I don't know the dialect specifically, but it's an African word, and it's it's the name they use for, soldier, army ant, soldier ant, or driver ant. And it got that name because it was originally supposed to be the slightly bigger version of the fire ant. The fire ant started out as a knife a little bit smaller than that, And, I showed it to, Mike Manrose and Daryl Ralph when they had HTM up and running. And, Mike said, hey, we're gonna we're gonna work with that. We're gonna make a folder out of it. And he ended up making it bigger, and the larger size fire ant stuck, and the smaller fire ant kind of has faded into the background.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:26:39]:
I brought the Seeafu out of obscurity, if you will. I made 1 or 2 in the past and, never really did anything with it, and it just seemed where things were currently with the smaller pocket friendly fixed blade. I figured that's the perfect perfect thing to bring back. And, yeah, I showed that to, to Concept, and Concept said, we'll take that. Thank you very much.

Bob DeMarco [00:27:07]:
They're gonna be making this?

Dirk Pinkerton [00:27:08]:
They're gonna be making that. Yeah. And we're gonna be doing a folder of it too as well.

Bob DeMarco [00:27:12]:
Oh my god. That's so cool. I love Concept. They're an awesome knife company. I love the stuff they produce, and, and they do a a wide variety of very interesting designs. They don't play it too safe, and I appreciate that. And I think the market does. That's why they've been so success or one of the reasons why they've been, very successful.

Bob DeMarco [00:27:33]:
But it's cool to see them taking on a fixed blade. I can't think of fixed a fixed blade they've put out. I'm sure they have.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:27:40]:
They've done 1 or 2. Okay. Yeah. They're they've been a little hesitant to do that, mainly, I think, because they're still not what you would call them a big company. They're still on the smaller size, so they wanna make sure everything that they do, they have a market for. And they they know that the market well, it's a little more favorable for fixed blades currently. It's still heavily, skews towards the, the folder. So Yeah.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:28:09]:
If you're gonna take your chances, you're gonna take your chances on something that you know will probably sell.

Bob DeMarco [00:28:14]:
Yeah. So this has the, GL Hanson and Son g Carta handle here. Yes. I know I confirmed with you that this was GL Hansen. And, I mean, not that it matters. It's spectacular. It's so beautiful, but he does such incredible work. I mean Yes.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:28:31]:
He does. He he really he worked really hard on that. I've talked to him several times. He's been wanting to actually try and make, handles, aftermarket handles for different knives and with his own material, obviously. And he's been trying to learn work with CNC, but he doesn't have the time to really delve into the complete training he needs to get his CNC up and running. So we've had that conversation, and he's told me how what goes into making the g Carta and how he does it. He does a really good job. He really knows.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:29:08]:
He's he's thought about it a lot. He is constantly rethinking what he needs to do with the bonding agent, with his epoxy, with his resin. It's made to his specification. He's he's always wanting to tweak it. Can I make it better? How can I do it better? And, he he's come up with some phenomenal, phenomenal stuff.

Bob DeMarco [00:29:29]:
It's funny you should say that because this one seem like, this seems it feels different from other gi Carta I've felt. It seems harder, slicker. Like, I know it's polished here, but, oftentimes, it felt raggy or, you know, it felt like you could feel the the material itself. And I and that that also has a certain appeal. But here's Gicarda again on this amazing broadhead double edged pocket, knife. Another small fixed blade knife. This one, was made. The production version of this custom one that you gave me was, made by Kizer or is made by Kizer and not in that blade shape, but the same concept.

Bob DeMarco [00:30:12]:
Same concept. So I I have one thing that I would suggest for this knife.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:30:18]:
Mom, what's that?

Bob DeMarco [00:30:20]:
And everyone's gonna go, ah, a lanyard hole. I know. I know. Or maybe it could be some sort of lanyard situation up here that doesn't jack up the handle. I know lanyard holes can really, mess up the handle for people. Like, they don't like the way it looks, and I get that. And, also, if you're a lanyard user and the hole is on the side and it's a small handle, which is the time I want a lanyard, it's more like a fob to remove it from its spot, less of a lanyard that's going around your wrist, obviously. But Right.

Bob DeMarco [00:30:50]:
If it's on the side on a short handle, you feel it. You feel the cord coming out of the side, and you feel it in your hand. That's why I was saying maybe some little little one of those little posts you could put in the back there. And the only reason I'm saying that is because, I like I like a little tiny, little fob thing. If I'm reaching into my pocket to retrieve a knife, it just kinda completes it a little bit, makes it easier to pull out. But that being said, you don't need one on this to make it a fully a full grip knife.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:31:24]:
Yeah. That's that's what I was working for with that is, again, the maximum handle, in the smallest package possible. And that that's definitely where that one really fell into is getting angles, widths, and shape to really fill the hand, but still make it a small package. And your idea for the fob is is not not alien on that because it actually started out with the the a laner pole, and that one may actually have one under the scales.

Bob DeMarco [00:31:57]:
Oh, oh, interesting.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:31:58]:
So I will not

Bob DeMarco [00:31:59]:
be taking it apart to look at it. But

Dirk Pinkerton [00:32:01]:
Well, you can. I mean, it they're just torques. There's nothing special, though.

Bob DeMarco [00:32:07]:
Yeah. Yeah. You're right. I could just I could just pop this thing pop this thing open. That's right. Man. So I wanna show, for people who are curious, I have a fire ant. Right? This is a fire ant.

Bob DeMarco [00:32:20]:
Right?

Dirk Pinkerton [00:32:21]:
This is the fire ant. Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:32:22]:
Oh, man. I yeah. For a minute there, I I started to doubt myself, but this is a triple edged fire ant. You got top edge, front edge, and bottom edge. And so this is a full finger, a full forefinger grip knife, and it's got a straight handle and yet it carries so nicely appendix. Kinda fits in that line between your hip and your and your belly, which I used to have. I don't have a line there anymore. But, anyway, it fits in that area really nicely, and you can you can draw it and use it.

Bob DeMarco [00:32:53]:
Obviously, a self defense knife, but, obviously, again, something that can be used for utility. This is a little bit more agro than the fire ant we're talking or than the, I'm sorry. One more time.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:33:07]:
Siatu.

Bob DeMarco [00:33:08]:
Siatu, here. But this is this would be great for all sorts of EDC stuff, but a Dirk Pinkerton design always seems to have, a mind an eye on the self defense, and this would also obviously be very wicked, in that case. You do a lot of wharncliffe's. What's what's with the wharncliffe's?

Dirk Pinkerton [00:33:31]:
I've always just liked wharncliffe's. They've always resonated with me as one of the most functional blade shapes available. Knives with bellies have a purpose. They slice well, they cut well, They do certain things very well. They they give you some multiple angles of cut for, for certain tasks. But at the same time, they can also limit other things. So, you know, a Bowie blade is really cool to have. It gives you options.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:34:06]:
And you can stab with it if you want to, but at the same time. You you lose a little bit in some of the slashing cuts, some of the draw cuts because of that curve. And you have to work with the curve of the blade if you're going to make those cuts.

Bob DeMarco [00:34:22]:
Right.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:34:23]:
And everything's a compromise. I mean, there is no perfect solution. But for me, working with smaller blades, the one clip just is kind of the perfect thing. So you get 4 inches and below. 4 inches may be pushing it, but I still like a big 4 inch worm clip blade. I just I like the look of it. But I mean, realistically, below 4 inches, the worm clip is to me the most adaptable universal blade you can have. I mean, it'll do pretty much everything you need it to do in that size range.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:34:55]:
Self defense, utility, you name it.

Bob DeMarco [00:35:00]:
Yeah. Michael Janich, the guy who designed the the Yojimbo Yojimbo series, he he describes the Wharncliffe, you know, why he likes it in a tactical sense really well. You know? You said you have to work with the curve when you have it. And I think what you mean is as your, as the knife is following the natural arc of your elbow, shoulder, whatever is launching that slash, it is curving as the blade is curving against probably a curved surface. So, in order to to make that work, you have to push you have to push a little more. You know? You Exactly. Accommodate. But with this, with a with a straight edge with a point down, you know, at knuckle height, so to speak, the the as you're taking advantage of that natural angle, that that point is always presenting itself deeper and deeper into the material you're cutting.

Bob DeMarco [00:35:58]:
Exactly. Again, especially if it's curved and most organic targets are. And as we've all noticed, it opens boxes great. It opens everything great, whether it's a box or something more dynamic.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:36:11]:
Absolutely. It absolutely does. And, yeah, that's that's exactly the the idea, the point with the the straight edge wharncliffe. As you're making your cut, a slash in self defense going through whatever soft material that's presented itself, most of the time that arc is going to advance to its apex, and then it's gonna withdraw and come back to you. With a curved blade, that's what I mean by you have to work with it. If you're making that slash and that, you know, that apex of that curve is, is at the the curve of the blade and that apex meet, you're losing your cutting ability. So you've given up length of that blade, and the way the only real way to make that work is to advance on that cut. So that means you have to be moving forward to have that blade feeding more material into the curve as you advance and bring the blade through.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:37:09]:
And with a wharncliffe, especially in a small package, you don't have to worry about that.

Bob DeMarco [00:37:15]:
Right. And you can

Dirk Pinkerton [00:37:17]:
Yeah. You you make your cut. The tip hits what it hits, and it's cutting all the way through. You don't have to worry about advancing. And it also works if you need as you're withdrawing too, because as you're coming through, you have the straight edge coming around. Not quite a true hawk bill, but as you're rotating your wrist through, it wants to give you just a little bit of a hook coming through the material, so you're gonna catch more material on the way out.

Bob DeMarco [00:37:41]:
You talk about that requirement for advancement or advancing to make a curved blade work as well. And and that just made me think, boy, that that really illustrates well why cavalry swords are always curved. And, you know, scimitars and and the the Middle Eastern swords are curved that way too, and a lot of that fighting happened on horseback. So that advancing is happening at, you know, 35 miles an hour or whatever Exactly. Being on horseback and making a slash like that. You were also a very early adopter of the Pakal, style knife I have here. Your custom inversion with the ring, so cool. This was originally a reverse tanto, or we saw it originally as a reverse tanto made by, Kizer.

Bob DeMarco [00:38:29]:
I have one. I did not pull that one out. But, you continued that, in your own private label, knife here with the with the, with the Pakal. I've been you know, I follow Fieldworks. You know, Alex. Mhmm.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:38:44]:
Yep.

Bob DeMarco [00:38:44]:
He he's been showing off one of your knives a lot recently. The past week or so, he's been showing off different, showing you with a, he showed that knife with a couple of Joe Watson knives, and he called them, like, epic giants or something like that. And I'm trying to remember the name of that knife now. It's yours. It's a Picall Double Edge, oftentimes a, in a in a tanto shape. What is that called?

Dirk Pinkerton [00:39:09]:
The Smilodon.

Bob DeMarco [00:39:10]:
Smilodon. That's it. And he's got one that's got a really long and slender, double edged, drop point blade. So it's you know, it looks more like this in double edged than, say, that that tanto shape. It's beautiful. So so how how did you come up with the or how did you start making pick calls kinda so early? It didn't seem to be fashionable yet.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:39:38]:
It definitely wasn't fashionable. But it it was where I was doing a lot of reading, where I was heavily into Bowie's at the time, and I was reading a lot of Keating, stuff. And, you know, looking at all the stuff he was doing with Bowie's and his fighting technique, And, you know, it's like, that'd be cool to go to one of his camps one of these days and, you know, all that. And then I came across his draw point, videos, which basically is taking your standard knife, not reverse grip knife, just a regular fixed blade straight knife. And the idea was basically just using it in a Pakal grip.

Bob DeMarco [00:40:23]:
Oh.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:40:23]:
Yeah. There was no other name for it. He just called it drop 1. And

Bob DeMarco [00:40:28]:
So I'm sorry. I'm gonna illustrate what you mean. So you mean just taking a a a regular let's pretend this is a fixed blade and using it like this?

Dirk Pinkerton [00:40:37]:
Yep.

Bob DeMarco [00:40:37]:
Okay.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:40:38]:
And that that was it. And the idea was it was meant to be a quick in close, reactionary self defense technique where you draw. And he did a fun video of having balloons up on the wall, and he, you know, he would draw on somebody who would call out a number like 1 and pull and hit 1. And they call a combination and boom, boom, boom. And illustrating that it was meant to be in close as the call is and very quick, very quick reaction time with the practice. And that intrigued me. And the more I thought about it, the more intuitive I thought the whole concept was of recall reverse grip, that type of knife fighting or knife defense, self defense application. Because it didn't require as soon as I saw, I was like, this doesn't require a ton of training.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:41:30]:
This is all the caveman.

Bob DeMarco [00:41:33]:
Exactly. That's what I was gonna say. Caveman. Yeah. Adrenaline dump, broad motions. You know? Can you

Dirk Pinkerton [00:41:40]:
pull it?

Bob DeMarco [00:41:41]:
Can you swing and pull? You know? And with a with a giant Bowie, holy mackerel. And if no one if if, viewers or or listeners are unaware, McCall style, is tip down edge in, and James Keating is a legendary Bowie knife fighter. You gotta check him out. He's he's he's an interesting dude, man.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:42:00]:
He is he's very interesting. He is indeed a he's a he's a pretty cool cat. He Yeah. He does things his own way, and he he really doesn't care.

Bob DeMarco [00:42:10]:
Alright. Well, I I wanna talk about yet another, warren wharncliffe and yet another prototype. And, people are have seen this a lot because I carry it a lot, and I it it goes into a lot of my pocket checks. This is your standoff model, and this is a prototype which you gave me, and I'm I'm so grateful for. As a matter of fact, you can see right here, this morning, I cut a whole bunch of zip ties because we still had our Halloween stuff up, and I'm like, oh my gosh. It's time to take these down. And and you were talking about certain things that wharncliffe can do, better than any other blade, and this is a true wharncliffe, meaning it's coming from the ricasso to the point. It's a continuous curve.

Bob DeMarco [00:42:55]:
Yeah. As opposed to a a one with a with an angle. And then you get into this a wharncliffe or a reverse tanto or a modified sheepsfoot? It just muddies the water, but this is no doubt a wharncliffe all day long. And what this is great at, among other things, this is an s ninety v blade, was slipping under the zip ties and just twisting. And it was this very fine, shape at the tip that allowed me to sneak in there and and, of course, it's razor sharp and s ninety v. So it it it went right through it and didn't need to be resharped afterwards. Good. So so tell me all about this knife.

Bob DeMarco [00:43:36]:
I I I feel like this is a perfect folder.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:43:40]:
The Oh, thank you.

Bob DeMarco [00:43:41]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I know, like, you wanna, sharpen up the the edge of the of the fuller so that you reverse flick it easier. You can still reverse flick this one, but, but other than that, this is a per a perfect knife as far as I'm concerned. Tell me about the the inspiration of it and and how you came up with the design.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:44:04]:
So that, in all honesty, is is an evolution of the Main Street.

Bob DeMarco [00:44:10]:
How? Oh, I wish I pulled out my Main Street to show it. Interesting. This is an evolution of the Main Street.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:44:18]:
It is.

Bob DeMarco [00:44:18]:
Because, the handle doesn't remind me of the Main Street nor does the blade. How how did tell me tell me about this evolution.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:44:25]:
When you when you compare it, you you'll see it. Just there's some subtle changes I made. The Main Street was very, I will call it, blocky in design purposefully with a little bit of a curve on the spine of the blade, just a subtle curve. But when you put the clipped Tanto, reverse Tanto on it, and then you put the thumb ramp, you kind of lose that curve because it changes that perspective.

Bob DeMarco [00:44:57]:
Yes. I see what you're saying. Yeah.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:44:59]:
So basically, what I did was I I I love the main street. And I'm hoping that goes on forever because I it it I just it's it is an old an older concept I've had in my mind, as far as a folder design that I never really did anything with until recently. So I'm very, very happy that concept has it. They're running with it, and they seem to be thrilled to continue to put out different versions of it.

Bob DeMarco [00:45:28]:
Yeah.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:45:29]:
So I don't want that to go anywhere. But as I was thinking about what it is and where it came from, I started thinking, okay, I'm happy with it, but how can I make it better? Can I make it better? What do I want it to do? And then I started thinking through, okay, this is what I like about it. What do I see in other folders that I like? How can I bring things that work somewhere else and incorporate it into that? And what I basically came up with was, Michael Janek, Yojimbo. And in all honesty, I will say without a doubt in my mind, he designed with the Yojimbo the perfect self defense knife. Hands down. It may not look pretty stylish, but it is exceedingly functional. He has thought through a multitude of things. He's incorporated them exceptionally well.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:46:29]:
You can't really, in my opinion, improve upon it.

Bob DeMarco [00:46:33]:
You

Dirk Pinkerton [00:46:33]:
can do something that's your own, that you like, that's a little bit more you. But every time I pick one of those up and I just look at it and I hold up like he has completely thought this through. You know. I can't think of a weakness in that knife, So I can't copy it, and I'm not gonna try and copy it. But I am gonna take my design language, and I'm gonna think through, okay, this is the main street is my baby, and it's something I really like. What did he do that I can I can borrow from and put in there and make it mine and make some of what he did in that Yojimbo so well and make the Main Street better? And some of the curve in the handle is is that, and you'll see that curve is is reminiscent also of the, the inversion. It's a very similar approach. So I'd say that it needs that, and it needs the the ability to get the thumb out on the the blade, but not on a ramp.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:47:37]:
Mhmm. Gotta do away with the ramp, because that gives you more control over a broader range of applications where a thumb ramp is can be very limited. And the curve the, the true horn flip nature of the blade, that actually came from the feedback I received on a lot of the inversions where they're like, hey, the tanto point is really cool and you can change the angle a little bit. But if you round that off, that thing is going to be so much better. And that's where I was like, okay, we're going to round it off and that's what we're gonna do, and this is where we're gonna end up. And once I got that in my hand, I'm like, this is it. This is I'm happy. It is my version of a self defense horn flip folder.

Bob DeMarco [00:48:27]:
Man, I mean, yes. 100%. This is a would make a great self defense folder. And and yet, like, again, you've made a really awesome just everyday carry knife. And and I could be in my own echo chamber here, but I think that to the average person out there, the wharncliffe blade is less threatening looking, than, say, something upswept even. Something like this looks scarier somehow. Yeah. I would imagine to the average person.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:48:58]:
I

Bob DeMarco [00:48:58]:
don't I'm not sure about that, but, I this this looks more maybe like utility. Oh, well, officer, I use this to open boxes. Oh, okay. Yeah. But with the length, like, this is, what, 3.8 inch? It's almost 4 inches.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:49:13]:
Yeah. It's right in that range.

Bob DeMarco [00:49:15]:
And but but, again, like, for those who don't like the bigger knives, it doesn't really it measures that way, but it doesn't feel that way necessarily. It certainly doesn't carry like a a large knife, sort of melts in your pocket, especially with these very broad chamfers, which are totally Doug. I'm sorry. It's totally Dirk Pinkerton. These long these wide chamfers, almost a third of the width and then a third of the width and a third of the width make it feel round without making it round. If it's round, it can do this in your hand. You know? But you've got these flat surfaces. Jeez.

Bob DeMarco [00:49:49]:
Where am I going? I'm just going off. I, I can't remember what I was going with that, but, well,

Dirk Pinkerton [00:49:56]:
I'm I'm I'm on board with what you're doing, so carry on.

Bob DeMarco [00:50:00]:
Oh, oh, and here's another thing. You know, I'm sure people are totally sick of hearing of this because I whine about it. My my thumb, I cut it doing something stupid, nicked a nerve or whatever, and, don't have the same feeling in my thumb, I'm told. You told me, actually. It'll come back after a while, hopefully, as it did with yours, but it's it's changed how thumb studs feel to me. It's it's changed how locking a knife. Now unlocking a knife, I'm using my forefinger because I can't gauge the pressure, and sometimes it hurts. It's weird.

Bob DeMarco [00:50:33]:
So now I'm just closing it with the forefinger. So this does have good access to the lock bar, and that's evidenced by the by the forefinger use. But this one also, is flipper only on until that, an you know? It's flipper and and fuller deployed, so this was another reason why I've been carrying it a lot, because it's easy for me to open. It's so awesome to use. It's super sharp. Okay. So tell us I I've been waxing, poetic about this. I love it.

Bob DeMarco [00:51:08]:
When when is is it gonna be released, and what kinda changes are are you thinking about? I know you've told me some other things you were kind of bandying about in your own mind, but what are you thinking about this in terms of release and possible changes?

Dirk Pinkerton [00:51:22]:
So, release, if everything goes the way I want it to go as far as, getting the, the financing behind it, we're looking at 25 sometime next year. I'm hoping midyear. We'll see. The changes, not many, because I'm really, really happy with the design. So it's some very subtle stuff. The fuller, I wanna do a flat bottom fuller square shoulder for, you know, the opening aspect of it. And then the, another subtle change would be in the jumping on the flipper. That's a little bit the jumping is a little oversized.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:52:05]:
I made it a little bit too big. So I'm going to make the jumping just a little finer. So it's it's a little less aggressive. I'm looking at some type of texturing on the handle, just a subtle texturing to give it just a little bit of grip, and I've been playing around with ideas on that.

Bob DeMarco [00:52:24]:
Something similar to the micro milling on the clip here or something more like this with more relief?

Dirk Pinkerton [00:52:31]:
A little more subtle. A little more like the micro milling. Because I don't think even with it being smooth, I've been playing with it, mine in and out of the pocket, sweaty hands, dry hands. And it it actually, because of the size and the shape, it doesn't really need a ton of of texturing to to maintain grip. It's just a question of do I want to worry about, you know, getting your hands wet in whatever you get your hands wet in. And that's I haven't decided if I wanna go down that rabbit hole or not. And then and these little things are kind of what are slowing the process down. Kind of what the same thing with the inversion.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:53:12]:
I've done 3 knives that I have overthought literally, tried to think of every possible scenario for where I was in that time frame of my design work. The Nomad was the first one. My inversion is the second one, and the standoff is the third one. I'm constantly looking at it, thinking about it. Okay, I'm going to do this. And I think about it. No, I'm not going to do that. No, we're going to do this.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:53:41]:
We're going to move this over here. So that's kind of the where I'm at. I'm still throwing ideas around. The other thing that I'm looking at doing, and I think I mentioned it to you, was the I want to do an ambidextrous clip. The current clip has a slight curve to it, which gives it a little flow and makes it fit the design better. But it doesn't work too well as being ambidextrous. So I'm looking at doing a straight clip, and I don't find it offensive, but at the same time, it doesn't look as good.

Bob DeMarco [00:54:15]:
Yeah. You were you were talking to me about, how would it look with the main street clip on it, which is a still a sculpted clip, but it's straight. And it it actually you know, you you asked me to swap it out. I did. It looked fine. It looked good because the whole damn knife looks good. But, you know, I if you do change it to that, I'll be psyched that I have this one just because it it will be different from everyone else's. Oh, about the about doing the OEM process, and just to remind people or let people know that this falls into a a a third category, you make custom handmade knives.

Bob DeMarco [00:54:52]:
You do designs that are released by companies like Concept and Kaiser, etcetera. But then you do these designs where you design them, you labor over them like we're talking about right now, and then you have an OEM make them after a preorder to fund the manufacturer. Yeah. Do you tell people who your OEM is, or is that something that just

Dirk Pinkerton [00:55:12]:
Yeah. I I do. I I I yeah. If you ask, I'll tell concepts making this one. It's yeah. It's not a secret. I have been in contact with a couple of different companies, and they do request anonymity. Interesting.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:55:28]:
And, so if I come out with something and I don't put a name on it, you'll know that it's not concept or it's not Kaiser.

Bob DeMarco [00:55:36]:
What why why I would think that the knifemaker would be more interested in that anonymity than than the company. Why why would they do that, do you think?

Dirk Pinkerton [00:55:46]:
I do not know. I think it could potentially be that they don't wanna have their name necessarily tied to any one person. So I think it could be they have their their brand that they do, and they don't want anybody to come in. It's like, oh, they're doing them too, and and they just design for them. I think they're trying to keep things nice and tidy. This is us, and we'll do stuff for you. You just don't tell people who Yeah. Who made it.

Bob DeMarco [00:56:12]:
Yeah. I know of another, oh, I know of a big well, Jack Wolfknives. I've mentioned it many times. He he doesn't he can't say who the OEM is, and that's the first time I heard of that. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. And, of course, so that makes speculation fly. I bet this this feels like a rehab or this you know, like, what do you know about that? You don't know. So that that's cool.

Bob DeMarco [00:56:33]:
So, just so people know that this this will be a preorder thing. This is not gonna be on knifecenter.com. This will be something that you well, how how do people get, how do people get this? How do they keep up with you? How do they sign up for this?

Dirk Pinkerton [00:56:49]:
So once, once that's ready to roll, I'll do a preorder, and I'll post it on Instagram. That's my primary social media platform, mainly because I'm too lazy to manage other platforms. It's just easy to do one.

Bob DeMarco [00:57:03]:
Probably too busy, but go ahead.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:57:07]:
Not just too feeble minded. I can't handle that work. Yeah. But very, very single task oriented. You give me more than 2 things at once, and I'm I blow up. My brain falls apart.

Bob DeMarco [00:57:17]:
I hear you, brother.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:57:18]:
So, yeah, I just do Instagram, and, I'll post it there, make the announcement. And once I get to a certain level on the preorders, then I start the process. And manufacturing is usually pretty quick. The last time I had a delay with, with concept on the inversion, and that was actually just my fault for timing it when it hit during one of the Chinese holidays. So those things are I always thought we had a lot of holidays. I didn't realize how many holidays in China.

Bob DeMarco [00:57:52]:
I think we should start incorporating them into our no. No. We shouldn't. Alright. Before I let you go because we're about to wrap here, I do wanna bring up the nighthorse. I showed this off before for a quick second. A modern interpretation I I was holding it like this. That's why I'm showing it when you were talking about James Keating.

Bob DeMarco [00:58:11]:
This is your modern interpretation of the Navaja, the Spanish, folding fighting knife that that, emerged after Spaniards could no longer carry swords around town to settle their their beefs. It's one of my favorite knives from history, and you did such a bang up job on this. It's so cool. It's so modern. But it it definitely you know, that is a Spanish clip point all day long even though it looks kinda modern and everything else about this. But I know that this was an exclusive knife to, Smoky Mountain Knife Works. This this in, s 35 v n in titanium, I think it is s 35, And then one that that's in, 14c28 and in g 10 that, literally, you could sing a song, and they would send it to you. Unbelievable how, how that thing was priced.

Bob DeMarco [00:59:01]:
And such a great knife, the other one. I gave it to my brother, and I want it back. But, is what's the future of the nighthorse? Is this something that people can still get? Will this live on?

Dirk Pinkerton [00:59:14]:
It's officially, it's in limbo, mainly because Smoky Mountain isn't sure when they are gonna start another run. They have told me they want to do it again, but they don't know when. So what I tell everybody is contact Smoky Mountain and tell them you want the night horse. The next run will be with a flipper.

Bob DeMarco [00:59:42]:
Cool.

Dirk Pinkerton [00:59:42]:
Yeah. And that's that was by, by popular demand. They they didn't like the thumb stud. And in all honesty, it looks to me, it looks cool, but, functionally, I agree with them. I think I would second run, yeah, we'll do away with the thumb stud.

Bob DeMarco [00:59:58]:
I I wouldn't mind the flipper, for especially for a finger guard. I mean, like, the thumb stud has always worked fine for me. But a finger a little extra finger guard on that big knife, you know, for when you're dueling or something like that really comes in handy.

Dirk Pinkerton [01:00:13]:
Exactly. But, yeah, you know, get a hold of Smoky Mountain. Let them know you wanna see the night horse again. The more they hear about it, the quicker it comes to to life.

Bob DeMarco [01:00:23]:
Alright. Dirk, before I let you go, which I'm about to about to do, but everybody listen to those words. If you like the Spanish nabaja and you want a super cool modern version of it, talk to Smoky Mountain Knife Works. Tell them you want it, and they'll bring it back. Are the g ten ones gone too?

Dirk Pinkerton [01:00:41]:
Yeah. The g ten, they flew off the shelves almost immediately. There's still a few of the the titanium left. And when we talked about it, they wanna stay with the g ten. The titanium didn't move quite as fast as they wanted to for their, sales models. So it'll just be g ten next time through.

Bob DeMarco [01:01:00]:
Alright. So I don't have to I don't have to get it back for my brother. I'll just buy it next time. And I will give Smoky Mountain Knife Works a, an email, just to let them know because I wanna see it with a with a flipper.

Dirk Pinkerton [01:01:12]:
It's gonna look good. Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [01:01:15]:
Well, I've I've, gotten a lot out of you about your prototypes and and everything, but I gotta ask you, before I let you go again. What's what's in the offing in terms of cool cultural mashups for knives that you're thinking about? Maybe it's not fully fleshed out, but what are the knives from history and other cultures you're looking at right now, to put out?

Dirk Pinkerton [01:01:38]:
I'm looking at, I wanna play with Chris. I wanna do my interpretation of Chris. That's always something I wanted to play with. I've done I did one in the past. I have no idea where it went. I sold it, and I have not seen it anywhere. Hasn't popped up online anywhere, but I want to do that again and I want to play with it some more. I like some of the variations that Chris has, and I think that's that'll be a lot of fun, especially to grind.

Dirk Pinkerton [01:02:09]:
I can get lost in that one easy. And then the, it's the kanjarli. Basically, it's a variation on the kanjar. It's almost kind of like a Chris, kind of like a small Yatagan. It's got a oh, Turner CNC, they're doing the Yes. The gin.

Bob DeMarco [01:02:34]:
The gin. I happen to have one right here on loan. I have to send this along, but this.

Dirk Pinkerton [01:02:39]:
So that that swoop, that that recurved drop is is very reminiscent of a kunjaro. The kunjaro is a little more has a little more of an extreme turn to the blade, but, yeah, it's very very close to that.

Bob DeMarco [01:02:53]:
Cool. Oh my god. I love that. I love the, the Vaquero, you know, by Cold Steel that was, Yadagon influenced

Dirk Pinkerton [01:03:01]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [01:03:01]:
As is this Jin, which is gorgeous. My god. He makes cool stuff. This Turner this Turner fella.

Dirk Pinkerton [01:03:07]:
I'm trying

Bob DeMarco [01:03:08]:
to get him on the show too. Well, I can't wait to see your, Khanjarling? Khanjarling? Khanjarli. Khanjarli. Yeah. We we will keep our eyes peeled. And, for those of you listening, if you're a patron, we are gonna continue this conversation for a few more minutes elsewhere. Well, you can you can find that on our Patreon page, and I'm gonna ask you a couple of other questions. But, Dirk, thank you so much for joining me.

Bob DeMarco [01:03:30]:
I feel like this time just flew and, man, I love your work and I always love really like talking to you. So Thanks. I appreciate it. Joining me again, man.

Dirk Pinkerton [01:03:43]:
I had a blast. I love doing this.

Bob DeMarco [01:03:45]:
Cool. Well, we'll have you back again just to make more cool knives. Alrighty, sir. Take care.

Dirk Pinkerton [01:03:51]:
Take care.

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Bob DeMarco [01:04:05]:
There he goes, ladies and gentlemen. Dirk Pinkerton. You know, he he's a celebrity to me. You know, most people like, you know, Beyonce and folks like that. To me, the people who make the kinda art I love, are guys like Dirk. So thank you, Dirk, for coming on, and thank you for, like, continuing to investigate, this stuff and get deeper and deeper and create cooler and cooler knives. It's so appreciated. Alright.

Bob DeMarco [01:04:31]:
And your viewership is appreciated. Thank you so much for joining us, and, be sure to join us on, Wednesday for the midweek supplemental and Thursday for Thursday night night. For Jim working his magic behind the switcher, I'm Bob DeMarco saying until next time, don't take dough for an answer.

Announcer [01:04:47]:
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