The Knife Junkie Podcast is the place for knife newbies and knife junkies to learn about knives and knife collecting. Twice per week Bob DeMarco talks knives. Email Bob at theknifejunkie@gmail.com; visit https://theknifejunkie.com.
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Announcer [00:00:03]:
Welcome to the Knife Junkie Podcast. Your weekly dose of knife news and information about knives and knife collecting. Here's your host, Bob the knife junkie DeMarco.

Bob DeMarco [00:00:16]:
Welcome to the Knife Junkie Podcast. I'm your host Bob DeMarco. On this edition of the show I'm speaking with ABS Master Bladesmith Aaron Wilburn of of Wilburn Forge. Aaron and his knives have been on my radar for a few years, but only recently with an Instagram post of a forged Bowie with dazzling Damascus and Stag that nearly brought my a tear to my eye did I think to invite him on the show. He's not only mastered making Damascus steel and forging Bowies and hunting knives, he makes what looked to be incredible slip joint knives and culinary knives that any professional or self professed chef would be proud to own. As a matter of fact, I came across a couple year old Christmas posting from none other than Joe Rogan on Instagram featuring of course some delicious looking elk steak posed with a beautiful Wilburn forged knife. We'll meet Aaron and discover how he became the forging phenom he is. But first be sure to like comment, subscribe and hit that notification bell and of course download the show to your favorite podcast app.

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Bob DeMarco [00:01:52]:
Aaron welcome to the show sir.

Aaron Wilburn [00:01:55]:
Well thank you. Thanks for having me.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:57]:
It is a pleasure. And like I said up front in in my intro, you've been on my radar for a while because I am just a sucker for Bowie knives. And you always are posting seems some sort of exquisite Bowie knife or other. But recently that one with Stag it was, I don't know, about two or three weeks ago that you were showing off. It just rang my bell like. Like none other. So tell me how. How did you get into forging knives?

Aaron Wilburn [00:02:27]:
Well, well thank you for the compliment of my knives. I mean that's really, that's what art should do for somebody is it should move you emotionally, you know. You know it all started for me about 2003. I was. I had a different business. I was at a. Got rained out. I was at a Barnes and Noble, and I was looking at a knife magazine, and Cliff.

Aaron Wilburn [00:02:48]:
Cliff Parker had a little advertisement in there about his knives. And he was about five miles away. And I went to his shop. He invited me over, and when I saw what he was making, the Damascus he was making, I would cook. I thought, man, I could do this. I was looking forward. I was looking for something that I could do at home that would be kind of like a hobby for my son and I. And when I went to his shop and I seen what he was able to do, and really a relatively small shop, I thought, you know what this is? I was bit.

Aaron Wilburn [00:03:18]:
I was bit by the Damascus bug. And it's something you can't get rid of, so you can only satisfy.

Aaron Wilburn [00:03:23]:
It's funny, like, how many ideas have come to people rained out in Barnes and Noble. I used to live in New York City, and it was the same thing. You'd run in there, go to the magazine section for me. I always went to the knife section. Uh, but Cliff Parker. You mentioned Cliff Parker.

Aaron Wilburn [00:03:39]:
Who.

Aaron Wilburn [00:03:39]:
Yeah, who is.

Aaron Wilburn [00:03:40]:
You know, Cliff is. He's a. He's just a gentleman folder maker. He's. He's real good friends with Don Hansen. Don's an ABS Mastersmith. Cliff never joined the ABS or. Or anything like that, but he was.

Aaron Wilburn [00:03:53]:
He's famous for making picture mosaic, and his stuff is just beautiful. And so he was telling me how he was a drywall foreman and it cost him money to go to work because he was selling his pocket knives. And so rather than go to work, he quit and went full time making gentlemen slip joint folders. You know, they're a couple thousand dollars a piece and just absolutely exquisite. And by seeing his art and what he was forging, you know, that. That. That's what did it for me. I thought, man, I can do this.

Aaron Wilburn [00:04:25]:
And with his help and encouragement, you know, I. I made progress.

Bob DeMarco [00:04:29]:
That truly is the dream, at least from my perspective, is to have your hobby or your. Your love take over so much that you can't afford to go to work anymore.

Aaron Wilburn [00:04:38]:
Yeah, I love that with Cliff, you know, I was. I was there and I. And I told him, hey, you know, I. I really want to do this. Can I pay you? Let me just pay you to teach me. And he just looked me straight in the bad face. He said, no, I'm not going to. You can't.

Aaron Wilburn [00:04:51]:
You can't pay me to teach you. He was, what you can do just Go buy a grinder, watch every DVD, read every book, make about 10 knives that you throw in the garbage. He goes, then come back and see me. He goes, then I'll give you some instruction, because at that point, what I will say to you will stick. But if you haven't done it, he was gonna go right over your head. And Cliff was right. So that's. That's kind of my start with into knife making was from Cliff.

Aaron Wilburn [00:05:17]:
And what I end up doing was I went to a blade show that they had a knife show that they had in Orlando, Florida, And I was so blown away by the craftsmanship that these men were putting out that, you know, I just. I thought, man, this is something I really want to do. And I met this guy named Corbin Newcomb. He was a Damascus maker, pocket knife maker. He wasn't part of the abs, but he'd been making knives for 30, 40 years, whatever it was at that time. And he was. He was fairly up in age at that time. We're talking 22 years ago.

Aaron Wilburn [00:05:50]:
And Corbin took a liking to me and my son and my family, and he said, hey, you know, if you want to really learn how to make knives, come spend a week with me in Missouri, and I'll teach you more in a week than you learn 20 years on your own. Yeah. And so I did it. And that very first knife I made there was Corbin during that week. I still have it. And I walked away a knife maker. So I went and I made the first knife on my own from what I learned from Corbin. And I went back to Cliff Shop, and I showed Cliff.

Aaron Wilburn [00:06:17]:
I was like, what do you think of this? And he goes, man, there's nothing more I can teach you. He just keep doing that and just keep practicing and learn what you can learn. He goes, and just keep refining that. And. And he goes, you're a knife maker, man. Just keep going. So it was this kind of funny story, you know, He. I said, man, I don't even know how do we even sell this knife? What do you do? And they gave me some suggestions, and I thought, okay, I'm gonna go to a gun store, and what do you think this knife is worth? Yeah, I won't.

Aaron Wilburn [00:06:44]:
I won't describe you what he told me, but it was. It was. He said it was. He. He said it could sell for $475. I was like, wow, that's a lot of money. And so I went to a nice store or a gun store, and I showed the owner, and he said, yeah, I could sell that, that thing's. Yeah, it's beautiful.

Aaron Wilburn [00:07:00]:
On my way to my next job, the guy calls me and said, hey, could you make another one? That thing just sold. So just as soon as I dropped it off, it popped. And that was, that was my beginning of that, my knife making career right there.

Aaron Wilburn [00:07:14]:
Well, let me ask you, what were you doing? What was the job that knife making took you away from?

Aaron Wilburn [00:07:19]:
Well, I have some franchises where I repaired leather seats and cars, fixed cigarette burns and dyed leather and that type stuff. And it was, it was fairly lucrative. It was a nice job, but it always took you out of the house. You go to a car dealership. Let's say if I was doing cars, you know, I could do airplanes and home furniture and that type of stuff as well. But you're always dealing with somebody new. And I thought, man, that's. It'd be nice if I didn't have to deal with a lot of, you know, new managers or that type of thing, and I could just work from home.

Aaron Wilburn [00:07:49]:
So that kind of, that's kind of what got me going into looking into something. At first I actually thought I was going to make archery equipment, long bows and recurs, because I shoot longbows and recurs and the guy I get my stuff from, it's, you know, it's $1,000 a bow and it's nine month or a year wait. So I thought, man, that, that wouldn't be bad either. You could just work in your backyard, make what you want to make and, and sell it. It just. That knife making just have more of an appeal to me.

Bob DeMarco [00:08:17]:
Yeah. So you're working with your hands, doing the leather repair kind of stuff. You, you were considering taking on making bows, Were you always someone who was artistic or handy or crafty?

Aaron Wilburn [00:08:31]:
Yeah, I mean, you know, kind of my history is my dad was a house painter. So from 10 years old to 15, I painted houses with my dad. And then we, we moved from Idaho to the Bay Area and I had three uncles and. Well, I know two uncles and a cousin that had body shop. And so since I had already knew how to spray houses and my spraying was good, I went to work at the shop. I wanted to learn how to paint cars. And I did that for about 12 years. And I could.

Aaron Wilburn [00:08:59]:
I could cut two cars in half and make one of them out. One car out of them. Eventually I went to work for Volvo, BMW. And then finally I was the head painter at Mercedes Benz in San Francisco for about four years.

Aaron Wilburn [00:09:11]:
Oh, kidding.

Aaron Wilburn [00:09:12]:
Yeah, So I have that career behind me as well, and then I got tired of working in the shop with, you know, all the chemicals, the traveling back and forth. And so I decided one day that I was just gonna go, go back to painting houses. And so I came home, told my wife, yeah, you know what, I'm done with this. And I took a notebook and I just went door to door in my neighborhood, explained to people who I was, what I was doing. I was painting cars, but I painted houses. I'm opening my business. I live, I'm your neighbor. I'm gonna give you a better job than anybody will give you.

Aaron Wilburn [00:09:46]:
And can I write a, you know, quote a bit for you? And this was in Oakland, California. And yeah, I walked away that night. I had $15,000 in deposits and about six or seven jobs around the neighborhood to paint. And that's how I started painting houses. I went transitioned right from painting cars right into painting houses. And that was, that was another career that took me for about another 10 years. I painted houses, built houses, did all kinds of things like that.

Bob DeMarco [00:10:13]:
So you learn knife making from. Well, from two gentlemen, basically Corbin Newcomb and then Cliff Parker or kind of them in tandem. How is it that you came to decide, yeah, I'm gonna, this is gonna be my full time job?

Aaron Wilburn [00:10:33]:
Well, once, you know, like you said, I was crafty, I, I built houses, I was a body man, Painted cars, my paint business, I. 24 employees. That'll kill you having that many employees. Oh, man, that was, that was hard. But at a, you know, at a certain point I thought, I just want to get better at this because I've seen guys that, what they put out and, you know, their stuff was amazing. And, you know, I'm a beginner. So how do you, how do you get better? Well, I started calling around different, different people and different knife makers. And I was introduced to the abs.

Aaron Wilburn [00:11:06]:
So I joined and they were putting on a hammer in. And by this time I had already moved back to California and they were having a west coast hammer in that was being put on by Mike Bonino down in Visalia, California. And that is such a wealth of knowledge. If somebody is interested in knife making and you are going, those are the places to go. Because sometimes there'll be six or seven master Smiths teaching there. And the knowledge that they drop, you walk away. You know, it's not very expensive, but the knowledge you walk away with. It might just be one nugget, one thing you're looking for.

Aaron Wilburn [00:11:40]:
And it's like the heavens open, light comes down, it's like, oh, that's what I needed. So they are so valuable in being able to rub shoulders, you know, with, with guys that are, you know, phenomenal knife makers and being able to, I was making knives and so talking with them, I was able to just absorb the knowledge that they were able to, you know, share with us at that time. And then plus now I make contacts and I would pay to go to a mastersmith shop and learn something, whatever that particular master smith may have been teaching, whether it be a Damascus making a slip joint folder or a line locker, or just getting better at whatever I was doing. So any money I ever spent going to somebody's shop, I made four or five times that just on what I made while I was there at that shop. So it is well worth anything you spend money on.

Bob DeMarco [00:12:35]:
So I know a lot of learning anything, any art form or any craft or anything takes reps, lots and lots of reps. And then it's that on top of, hopefully you have some talent for that thing, a natural, you know, ability with it and those two, you know, hard work plus talent is, you know, man, if you can, if you can do that, that's the way to go. Do you think that you had a natural sort of innate talent for knife making?

Aaron Wilburn [00:13:08]:
You know, it's. I would, I would consider myself a craftsman. You know, I can, like I said, work on cars, build houses, you know, whatever different things I could do. But we all have that, every one of us. It's just a matter of how we develop it. You know, I, I never thought of myself as an artist and I, what would my knives look like? But now that I, you know, I'm years into this, I do have a very distinct look. I never thought I was going to get that. You know, you look at some guy's knives and you know exactly who made that knife.

Aaron Wilburn [00:13:43]:
And now down the road, you know, I've had other mastersmiths tell me, you know, I've done a taught different Camerons and stuff like that. And Rick Dunkerley, he told me one time in front of the whole, the whole, you know, everybody that was attending that pay attention to your art, do what you're doing, eventually you'll develop your look. And he goes like Aaron, he goes, I can spot one of Aaron's knives across the room in a crowd of knives because I have a distinct look. And you know, I never thought about it that way, but I was like, man, you know what, you're right, I, I do have a distinct look. It was what I do. And it's not that I'm trying to copy anybody. You know, I might, like, have different influences from different makers, you know, iconic makers that have, you know, make. Not have made knives, but to see their work.

Aaron Wilburn [00:14:30]:
I'll take a little bit of influence from each one of them and put it into what I do. And then I just. Basically, I make what I want to make. And, you know, that's kind of how you develop your own look, your own feel. You, you know, it's gotta be your art. You have to own it. And then those skills or your look or your talent, it will just develop. But it's.

Aaron Wilburn [00:14:51]:
It takes effort. It takes time. I mean, I've. I've spent money to go and learn and all. Every dollar I've ever spent has come back to me tenfold. It is, it is. It's worth everything that you could spend to go learn that education, you know, go to college and get a degree. And what will you use that for? I don't know.

Aaron Wilburn [00:15:10]:
But every. Everything I spent money on in knife making has helped me to become a better maker.

Bob DeMarco [00:15:16]:
Okay, so Jim is scrolling through your Instagram page, and we're seeing a number of different styles of knife. So we know that you have a pretty, you know, what am I trying to say? Broad range of the kind of knives you like to make. But how would you describe your personal taste in knives?

Aaron Wilburn [00:15:35]:
Well, you know, for me, I. I like to make kitchen knives. I like to make. First off, I'd like to make Damascus. That is really the bug for me. It's. It's kind of an addiction that you can only satisfy. You can't.

Aaron Wilburn [00:15:49]:
There's no cure. It just gets worse as you get older. But to be able to make some Damascus. Okay, now what do I do with the Damascus? Well, I can put it into a nice big display blade like a buoy or a kitchen knife. But sometimes, you know, a little Skinner or a pocket knife, those type of things are. They're. They're like therapy for me to make. You know, when I make something, I don't really take orders.

Aaron Wilburn [00:16:13]:
I'll take a request. If somebody wants a feather Damascus buoy and they can make some suggestions, I'll make it. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't worry, the next person will. And I just half tap full artistic license with whatever I'm doing. And, you know, over the years, I think there's. I go in phases where I. I may want to do, you know, 10 or 15 slip joints because I feel like making them, or I'll do a bunch of kitchen knives or I'll make buoys.

Aaron Wilburn [00:16:40]:
I mean, I have blades sitting around that I've forged out of Damascus and they're just sitting there. So they're like the blade that caught your attention. I probably made that blade four years ago and it would just sit in my toolbox. And I was like, oh man, forgot about this. When I pulled it out, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make the handle on this. And that's where I put the stag together with that handle. And, and there it is. Because I just satisfied an itch that I had to make it.

Aaron Wilburn [00:17:07]:
So that's, that's kind of. I mean it sounds like. Yeah, I guess I am artistic. I don't.

Bob DeMarco [00:17:13]:
Yeah, yeah.

Aaron Wilburn [00:17:14]:
I can't have anybody tell me what to do. I just let me do it. You know, it also sounds like the.

Bob DeMarco [00:17:19]:
Approach that a painter or sculptor takes. They have their personal body of work and you know, if the gallery likes it or if the public likes it, that's great. But if not, you're still, still going to be doing what you're doing. But what is it, what is it about the process of making Damascus, which we're all somewhat familiar with from watching the show and all that. What, what is it about that process that is so addictive to you?

Aaron Wilburn [00:17:46]:
Well, you know, I have a big hammer. I have a Chambersburg 2CH. It's about an 8,000 pound machine. It has a 200 pound head. It hits like, like you wouldn't believe what used to take me with a small hydraulic press and a smaller hammer. Two to three hours to draw out a billet, I can do in two minutes on this hammer. So it moves steel. So rather than spending a lot of energy just moving a bar of steel, forging it out, I'm able to accomplish those things quicker.

Aaron Wilburn [00:18:14]:
So my energy is spent now in thinking about and re remanipulating the steel so that I can make the pattern I want. I think what really gets it for me is, you know, there's a wall call, simple patterns like maybe a raindrop or twist or ladder. Those are. Or just random, you know, those. To, to be able to accomplish forge welding that is, Is an accomplishment for most people, but to take it to the next step to make a feather or to make a mosaic and then different types of way you arrange the steel to come out with a pattern. For me, that's. I like that because then you could think ahead of time, maybe six or seven or eight forge welding sessions what that, that end pattern will look like. And so, you know, I don't really write a lot of stuff down.

Aaron Wilburn [00:19:00]:
I just kind of know what theories are and how I'm going to stack something and how it's going to look. And then at the end, sometimes I'm just as surprised as everybody else when I see what the pattern looks like. It's like, oh, yeah, that came out pretty good. So it's, it's that type of. I don't know, just to satisfy that creative drive that we have inside. For me, that's. It feels good. It's like therapy.

Aaron Wilburn [00:19:23]:
You know, sometimes you do things in life and you can get stressed out about work. And there's times where I get stressed out about knife making and I'll just go to something that I find pleasure in. If I get too stressed out, I need some. Just a lone mental time to do something. I'll either forge or I'll make a slip joint.

Bob DeMarco [00:19:41]:
I'll just totally change up the paradigm a little bit and. Oh, yeah, and do something completely different. So we hear a lot from artists and writers about how they'll have an idea of what they want to write, for instance, or what they want to paint. But once they immerse themselves in the process, the thing they're working on talks back to them and it becomes kind of a dialogue, if you will. Would you say that that's kind of something that happens with you when making a Damascus blade?

Aaron Wilburn [00:20:09]:
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Even the, the portion about making the Damascus is one thing that has to happen, otherwise I'm not going to be satisfied with what I'm doing. But it also happens with the handle and putting the handle together. Sometimes I'll forge out a blade. I have no idea what the handle is going to look like. That blade will dictate to me with my materials I have laying around what I'm going to do for that handle, whether it's going to be a stag handle, a hidden tang, or it's going to be a frame handle, you know, then. Then the blade will tell me what I'm going to do and I'll dry out the blade and I'll put different types of handles that I want to put on there. And I'll.

Aaron Wilburn [00:20:47]:
I mean, on my sketchboard, and then I just build from there. So it, it has to. It has to connect with me, the style of handle. I may have several different types of, of ivory out there. Maybe some mammoth, some ancient walrus or something. And if it doesn't speak to me, then maybe I'll use wood. But More than. More than likely, it's probably going to be either stag or ivory for the handle.

Bob DeMarco [00:21:15]:
Okay, I want to ask you about that ABS a little bit, but before we do, I show us that blade you showed me, the unmounted blade that you showed before we started rolling here. Tell us about this.

Aaron Wilburn [00:21:27]:
Well, this is just a pattern of mosaic that, in fact, I have a few videos on YouTube on how I do this, this pattern. But, yeah, so the blade will do this. So the steel, before it goes into the acid, it looks just like flame homogeneous steel. But when that acid eats it and it reveals the pattern. Yeah, there's the payoff where we see what that looks like. And it's just satisfying when I make something like that. So it's, you know, this particular pattern was just an experiment of what I wanted to try. And there's different variations of how you work mosaic.

Aaron Wilburn [00:22:07]:
You can have a boulder pattern or, you know, four way, it nine way. There's different ways of forging it. You're gonna have a more complex pattern, and so it just depends on what you want to do. I like bolder patterns myself because as I get older, my eyesight's not as good, and, you know, a real tight pattern that you can't, you know, you need glasses or magnifying glass to see is not as enjoyable to me as something that came out kind of cool and bold and big. So that. That kind of dictates how I. I see things or what I want to do.

Aaron Wilburn [00:22:36]:
I. I know that Bill Moran, you know, one of the. One of the guys who started the. The abs. I'm pretty sure it was. It was he who. Who sort of like reintroduced Damascus on a. On a broader scale, do you think that to be.

Bob DeMarco [00:22:54]:
I mean, in your opinion, to. To really fully be a forger, to really fully be a knife maker in. In the forge that is. You have to do Damascus?

Aaron Wilburn [00:23:08]:
No, no, not at all. To be honest with you. Some of the best satisfying work I do is just taking a round bar of 52100 and forging it out into a. A skinner, a brute deforge, a buoy. Just forging skills. It doesn't have to be that you're manipulating and refolding and squaring and twisting Damascus. That's kind of. That's kind of its own animal, so to speak.

Aaron Wilburn [00:23:32]:
But when. And then again, it also comes because when you forge a 5200 or whatever steel, somebody might want to use plain steel, we'll call it plain steel, the forging skills that you put into it. To forge a blade to shape, there's a lot of satisfaction and being able to manipulate the steel and keep working it, take your time and forge it the way you want it to look. Because a lot of times my blades, there's very little profiling that needs to be done with them. Just clean up the edges and there's. The blade is done.

Bob DeMarco [00:24:04]:
You mean in terms of the grinder? Is that what you mean?

Aaron Wilburn [00:24:06]:
Yeah. So I don't, Yeah, I don't take, I don't grind my blades to shape some of them. It depends on the pattern. So if I'm, if I'm going to be forging a, A specific type of pattern, there may be a little more grinding for that particular pattern because I don't want to distort the pattern so that, that all, you know, that's. We could, we could, we could talk an hour just about that. But to just afford something to shape. Yeah, just plain steel. That's, that's, that's really.

Aaron Wilburn [00:24:35]:
Knife making is forging that blade to shape, thermal cycling that, getting everything just the way you want it with the hammer and an anvil, rather than grinding it out close and then, or forging out close and then grinding a blade out of a chunk of steel. That's, to me, is a lot more satisfaction in forging it to shape, to profile the thickness, the distal taper, everything about it, and you know it. And that all depends on the style too, because if you're going to surface grind everything off and make it a clean blade, pool, sand, scratches and all that stuff, I don't particularly do that. I like to have some forging scale or, you know, like, I would call it the brute to forge look on there, that you knew that blade was forged. That, to me, that's very satisfying even with plain steel.

Aaron Wilburn [00:25:21]:
I saw a forging competition at a knife show and it was, it was between four smiths and one guy was, you know, kind of clearly behind. I think he was having trouble with his billet or something. But I remember he pulled out an angle grinder to kind of cut the tip in and people gasped. It was awesome. It's like, oh my God, what is he doing? And, and that, I mean, to me, that really hammered home, no pun intended. What it really means to forge a blade, you're not just, you're not just heating up the metal and getting it approximate, or you're not just cutting up two different kinds of steel, stacking them and, and, and forge, welding it together. You're really, when you're forging a blade, you're, you're doing what you said. You're, you're using the hammer and the anvil to get almost all the way there.

Aaron Wilburn [00:26:09]:
Yeah, I mean there are times where, you know, everybody makes mistakes. I do too. You might get a cold shot at the tip or something like that and you're, you're fighting it. It's easy just to go to the grinder and grind everything in. It's a little more difficult to take a little more time and forge it so that you don't have the cold shut. You can forge the tip all the way down to a perfect point. It just takes a little more practice and not, not be in a rush. I think that's probably one of the biggest things I had to teach myself of early on is don't rush it.

Aaron Wilburn [00:26:40]:
You know, I don't have a big forge to stick four or five blades in there or three blades at a time. I work on one blade at a time. That way I don't burn up steel. I'm focused on my one blade. I spend the time to forge it the way I like it. And I'm, to me, I'm more, I'm, I'm satisfied. I satisfy myself because that's ultimately before any customer ever sees that blade or anything like that. I know that I put everything I could into that blade.

Bob DeMarco [00:27:06]:
Now do you knife all the way to the finish line, including the guard and the handle and everything before you start a new project?

Aaron Wilburn [00:27:13]:
Oh, no. Okay. Okay. I have 15 or 20 really nice Damascus blades like this one sitting around because I like forging and making the blades, you know, and, and it, and it just depends on what moves me if I'm going to have even. Right now in my, right next to my grinder, I have probably 4 or 5 integral 5, 2100 little skinners that I forged out and heat treated and they're ready to finish grinding and put together similar to this one. We can see that.

Bob DeMarco [00:27:52]:
That's beautiful.

Aaron Wilburn [00:27:54]:
Yeah. So that's just, that's just out of a three quarter inch round bar. I forge it out. I differentially heat treated so the back is softer, the bl. The edge is harder. And then I'll attach a handle to it and I probably have, yeah, at least four or five of these blades sitting right next to my grinder ready to go. So when I get an urge to, to finish out a blade like that, then I'll, I'll grab it and finish it and grind it. But just having finished blades sitting around, I don't do just one project all the way, start to finish.

Aaron Wilburn [00:28:26]:
I'll do two or three or I'll work on different phases because be honest with you, I'll get bored if I'm just sitting there working on one knife all the time. It gets, it gets a little bit boring. That's kind of what happened when I started doing slip joint folders, is I posted the first one that I done that I did of about 2010 or 11, and I got 20 orders for slip joints. And I was like, man, I don't think so. I just wrote everybody and was like, look, I'mma I'll make them and when I post them, be quick to buy them. Or, you know, that's, that's, that's how they're going to become available. Because I don't want to be shoehorned into, oh, now I have to make 20 or 30 slip joints. Or, you know, it's like that Joe Rogan knife that when he cut up the meat, you know, I told him, don't post it because I can't take a Joe Rogan bump, you know.

Aaron Wilburn [00:29:13]:
And sure enough, he posted on. I gave him that knife. I'm gonna say he got that knife back in, in April, and then he posted on Christmas Day. So he held onto it for all that time. But I ended up having to make 20 of those things, you know, it was like, gosh, one integral after another, you know, so it's it for me. It takes away kind of the joy of what I'm doing. If I, yeah, if I'm shoehorned into just making a bunch of knives start to finish and, you know, satisfying orders, that's. That's not really what I'm in this for.

Bob DeMarco [00:29:46]:
Well, that is, that's such a great position to have put yourself in, and that's the position that all creative people want to be in, I'm pretty sure. But bring up that last knife and explain what you mean by integral, because a lot of people are folder guys and they have a totally different definition.

Aaron Wilburn [00:30:04]:
Well, an integral, it means. So your guard right here, this all came from one piece. And you can, now you can like on Damascus, you can like on my, on kitchen knives all forge on some bolsters. And it's still an integral because your, your guard, your bolsters are forged into the blade. This just happens to be out of a bar of steel bar of 52100. So I pinch out or forge out the blade and then I'll cut off about this much of the, the handle and then I'll pull this piece out into a tang and the tang is usually straight and about close to five inches long. Because that, there's always that four fifths rule. I want the tang to be four fifths of the length of the handle.

Aaron Wilburn [00:30:50]:
Whether I'm going to put a screw on butt cap or like in this, I silver braze a copper rod onto the bottom and then that way I can pin it over after it's epoxied. So now you have a chemical or your, your epoxy holding it in, but you also have a mechanical attachment too. There's no way this can come off because it is, it is a domed rivet copper pin on the bottom that's attached with hard solder which melts about 1260 degrees. It's 15,000 psi. It's super strong. And that way you get a strong knife out of that. But yeah, that's what the integral is. It's going to be this, this portion, the blade is forged out of.

Aaron Wilburn [00:31:31]:
It's all one piece.

Bob DeMarco [00:31:33]:
And so we see a hormone line. It's darker towards the, towards the edge. That means that it's a little bit softer there, right?

Aaron Wilburn [00:31:41]:
Yeah. So what I do well, this is harder. The darker spot is harder. The lighter stuff on the back is going to be a little bit softer. So what I do is when I'm ready to heat treat these things, it's already been through high temperature thermal cycling in and out of the forge, especially the last few four or five times going in and out. Because then now I'm just tuning up the blade with a hammer. So every time it goes up to critical temperature and then comes down, it'll go through that allotropic phase where you'll see the color change in the steel. That's just refining the grain structure.

Aaron Wilburn [00:32:12]:
So it's already gone through the high temperature at that point. Then I put it into my electric oven and I'll anneal it and it'll sit overnight from 1500 or 1575, whatever it is, to room temperature. Then when I grind the blade and I'm ready to harden the blade, I'll bring it back into my electric oven, I'll bring it up to temperature and I'll pull it out three times and let it cool in air. And that those very controlled normalizing sessions, it really refines the grain structure so that you get a real fine grain edge to be able to harden it. And that's super important. Important to get the, the most performance you can get out of your steel or your blade. If you Knew how to like. I like 52100.

Aaron Wilburn [00:32:59]:
And I'll get a batch of it. And there's little nuances on how to heat treat it that you get the best performance out of it. So what I'll do is I'll take that blade at that point and I'll harden the whole blade. And then I pull it out and I take a torch and I paint the edge till I get the edge back up to that austinizing temperature. And then I'll quench the. Then I'll quench the blade again. So the whole knife has been hardened and you can multiple quench the blade. If I don't like the way the hormone comes out, I'll.

Aaron Wilburn [00:33:29]:
I'll paint it again and do it again. I'll pardon that edge again, but by pulling it out, multiple quenching it completely, the whole blade and now refining and painting the edge with the torch and then quenching it again, it has almost like a memory where that fardened edge, you'll see a paint, it'll paint back up and you'll see exactly where you hardened it before. And then when you quench it and you know, there's different debates on whether it helps it or it doesn't or whatever. I notice the performance, the difference in performance. And especially if I cryogenically treat the blade, which I do, all my, all my blades I cryogenically treat, it doesn't give as much performance in a Damascus blade with simple carbon like 10, 84, 15 and 20. But I notice a big difference in 52, 100. It's harder to sand, it's harder to finish, but the edge holding ability is, man, it's off the charts. It's really good.

Aaron Wilburn [00:34:25]:
So those little things that you do, it makes a big difference on the end quality. And for me, that's everything. If form follows function, it has to perform. It's not going to perform. I'm not going to make it. So there are some different styles. And you know, you can make a blade that looks beautiful, but if that thing can't cut or hold an edge.

Bob DeMarco [00:34:45]:
Why, you know, it's funny, it's like the beauty is lost if it can't perform. Sort of like, and I don't mean to be crass with my analogy, but it's kind of like a woman. You could see someone who's really beautiful and then they start talking. You're like, you know, it, it can be the same thing with a knife, you know, wow, that is beautiful. But knowing that it can't, you know, it can't perform well. Yeah, it loses its luster.

Aaron Wilburn [00:35:12]:
Yeah, it's like putting lipstick on a pig. It just, it's just not going to work.

Bob DeMarco [00:35:15]:
Yeah, so you showed me before. Another bowie knife in the sheath completed. Let's take a look at this.

Aaron Wilburn [00:35:22]:
Yes. I'll put it back in sheet so it has a nice look. So this is, it's a frame handled Turkish twist blade. It's about 11 and a half inches long. I actually have a video on YouTube on how I made the blade and I just finished the handle and we're going to be putting that out. But so there's the back of the sheath too. So the sheath is. I have it marked.

Aaron Wilburn [00:35:48]:
It's just 8 to 10 ounce or 8 to 9 ounce wicket and Craig leather. It's lined with kangaroo and then there's alligator over the face.

Bob DeMarco [00:35:58]:
What does the kangaroo do for you? Is that super soft or.

Aaron Wilburn [00:36:02]:
You know, kangaroo is really, it's really tough. Sometimes I use calf skin but if I can get that cognac kangaroo, that's what I like to put in there. But other times I just, you know, I'll use calfskin. It works fine but that way it, it, you're not really going to scratch your blade with good quality leather. But it gives it a lining so that there's less friction or anything that can catch on that blade. But I wouldn't have any qualms about not lining a sheet. But it just gives it a more finished look if the sheath is lined with a thinner material.

Aaron Wilburn [00:36:33]:
Man.

Bob DeMarco [00:36:34]:
Okay. And then the buoy. I don't know if you can see that Turkish twist.

Aaron Wilburn [00:36:43]:
Yeah, that is spectacular. It's amazing. Like right towards the edge you can see how it turns into stars, widens.

Aaron Wilburn [00:36:53]:
And that is dazzling. You know to the, the guys that taught me how to make Turkish twist different, different makers over the years, you know, they all, everybody has their input and how they want to do things. You know, when you go to make a Turkish twist, you're not, you're not making the, the Damascus to save steel. So this, this blade here I think was, is 14 ounces finished. But it started out as a 10 pound bar of. Yeah, 10 pound bar of steel. Everything else ended up on the shop floor ground away. So that with a Turkish twist, when you have a twisted bar, the inside one third of the steel is where you get those nice.

Aaron Wilburn [00:37:39]:
The stars so to speak. Otherwise it can just look like twisted steel on the outside. So if you're worried about, oh, it's too much steel to lose by grinding it you're kind of defeating the purpose. I'm not here to save steel. I'm here to make a Turkish twist knife. And the best, the best look is that one third that's on the inside. So you're kind of end up losing a lot of steel.

Bob DeMarco [00:38:00]:
So that's a twisted bar. You twist the bar when it's super hot and then you.

Aaron Wilburn [00:38:04]:
Yeah. Out of this 10 pound bar of steel, I drew it out into one foot pieces. They were about five, eight thick because I wanted a little bit bigger pattern for this big buoy. So if I wanted it smaller I would go probably less than half an inch or just half inch and less and then twist it tight and then you can have a real nice tight pattern. But because I'm getting folder and I like a little bit more bolder look, it shows up beautifully in this blade. And what you do is you have one blade or one piece you're going to twist left, the next piece you're going to twist right. And when they come together they make like a chevron with the twist pattern. So this have five bars in it, rear left, rear right.

Aaron Wilburn [00:38:48]:
And that gives you the chevron in the twists. Then when you surface grind just has a better look rather than them following the same direction, they're, they're going against each other and it just, it just has a beautiful look that way.

Bob DeMarco [00:39:02]:
Let's, let's hold that back up if you could. And let's take a look at the guard and the handle.

Aaron Wilburn [00:39:08]:
Yeah, so that is, that's just plain, desert plain. It's just twisted Damascus for the spacer and the guard. I don't know if you can see the top or not. Can we see the bottom here? So it cuts in on the top it looks like plain lines but there's different pattern on the bottom. And then of course the guard or the spacer is twisted and so is the frame.

Bob DeMarco [00:39:34]:
So a lot of people might look at that like I did before you mentioned frame and think it's a full tang knife. What's the difference?

Aaron Wilburn [00:39:40]:
Well, the frame handle. Yeah. So the thing on this, on that knife looks like this. And then what I do is I take a twisted Damascus bar, I'll twist it, bend it around and then flatten it. And then I get it wide enough so that I can put my pattern over there. And remember the pattern on a twisted bar is in the middle. So if I can get the outline of my frame to fit in the middle of that twist, then I'll cut the outside off. And now I Have good twisted pattern for the edge and that's what gives you those nice little stars.

Aaron Wilburn [00:40:16]:
And then so the handle itself, the, the handle scales fit on the frame and then that whole thing slips on the tang. And then you put some.

Aaron Wilburn [00:40:23]:
Yeah, so what I'll do is that frame will sit around here. I'll mark out this line, cut the frame. So the frame fits all the way up perfectly onto this. There's hardly any room, but just enough. And of course it'll have, at that point I'll have a guard, spacers, whatever. I'll have that figured out. And then the remainder will be the frame that will fit around this. So and then when the scales fit on it like the, this has ancient walrus ivory for the scales that kind of holds it all together.

Bob DeMarco [00:40:57]:
And then that one pen pin through the center is the mechanical connection to the tang.

Aaron Wilburn [00:41:02]:
Yeah, that's just insurance because there's, it's epoxied in here and that, that's just insurance that it's not going to come out.

Aaron Wilburn [00:41:12]:
So. Bowies. You, you love bowies? I love bowies. What, what is it about the bowie knife that's compelling to you?

Aaron Wilburn [00:41:20]:
You know, the size of it. Actually it's fun to make a big knife. I like around a 10 inch blade. They're, they're fun to build, they look good. I like to make a sheath for them. When they start getting a lot bigger than that, I've made them up to 15 inches and it just is a little too cumbersome to me at that point. Okay, six to seven inches, that looks pretty good. But if I'm going to have a big pattern, I want to show it off.

Aaron Wilburn [00:41:44]:
I want at least a 10 inch blade. There's something about holding one, you know.

Bob DeMarco [00:41:48]:
The classic Bowie size. Right.

Aaron Wilburn [00:41:50]:
Perfect.

Bob DeMarco [00:41:51]:
So you are in an ABS Mastersmith. What? Master bladesmith. What does that mean?

Aaron Wilburn [00:41:58]:
Well, you know, when I first started, when I joined and I started going to these hammer ends and I was talking to these other master smiths, I thought, you know, it's almost like the unattainable. I'm not going to be able to get to that level because their knives were just outstanding. And so I thought, well, I'll just keep, I'll keep trying. And in time, as I got my knives got a little better. Then I got encouragement from different mastersmiths. Like, wow, man, your stuff's looking good. You should try to be a journeyman. So the whole process, you know, it's kind of a, it's a commitment.

Aaron Wilburn [00:42:32]:
You know, some people may say Oh, I don't need to join the ABs. I don't need to be certified and all that. Okay, you don't, you know, the guy that taught me wasn't, you know, Corbin Newcomb, you know, Cliff Barker. They're not, they're not part of the abs and they make beautiful knives. But there's a certain standard that the ABS puts out that helps you as a maker to refine your, your, your quality of work, the craftsmanship to get to achieve the level that they're looking for. You walk away at different maker when you follow their instructions on how to become, let's say, a journeyman, what they're looking for. You may have your own particular style and your own look, but when you do, what is required of them, of the ABS to pass your journeyman test, whether it be the, the performance test is really, that's kind of a, that's kind of a kick in the shins as well. Because, you know, I was told several times you, you forge out your blade, make three or four of them to where you get to where you can break, you know, the last two.

Aaron Wilburn [00:43:33]:
And then now you have the formula for how you're going to heat treat your knife to do, to pass the chopping, the cutting, the shave hair and the bend test. Then you have that particular knife when I went through that process, because there's four or five blades that I made that are in the garbage. So it's hard as a maker to make something you're just going to throw away. But to be able to accomplish that and then to understand the heat treating involved and what I'm looking for, I want a hard edge. I want a softer back. I don't want it to fold over like an L. I want the bow bend like a, the, the bow of an, like a bow, like a longboard recurve. You want that type of curve in the blade.

Aaron Wilburn [00:44:12]:
I don't want it just to fold over where they put it in the vise. And you bend it.

Bob DeMarco [00:44:16]:
I mean, you're talking about that pull it and bend it, right?

Aaron Wilburn [00:44:19]:
Yeah, you got to put, yeah, what it is, is you'll put a, you know, usually some type of pole on it, you know, steel pipe or whatever. And then you want to bend it down so that the tang is bent at 90 degree angle to the vise or to the flat part of the blade that's, that's in the vise and then it'll rebound and recover. You can crack the edge up to a third of the blade. But, you know, any self Respecting bladesmith. You want, you want your blade to, you know, when you look, when other mastersmiths go to judge your blade, you want them to look at that and say oh, that's the way it's supposed to look. And that's the comment I got when I showed my. Because you had them now. Now you go to one of these abs sponsored shows, whether it's going to be in Texas or Atlanta, that's usually the big one.

Aaron Wilburn [00:45:07]:
And you're going to submit your knives to a panel of master smiths to look at. You want them to look at that and recognize, oh, that guy knows how to heat treat that knife. And that the comment I got from everybody that judged my knives, it's like that's what we want to see is that type of bow not bend. A bend will, a bend will pass. Rules are if, if it goes past 90, that bend can stay there. You can have a crack one third the length of the blade in and it will still pass. But if that's the case, I would have re. Personally I would have redone, I would have read heat created a blade and, and got to where I did with mine.

Aaron Wilburn [00:45:49]:
So that way I know I have control of how I heat treat a blade. And that's really the purpose of it is they want to see that you know how to control, control how, how does he treat properly to pass that particular test. Not that you're ever going to make a knife that's going to go through that type of bend or, or torture again, but you need to know how to do it and that's really how you demonstrate it. And then. Oh, go ahead.

Bob DeMarco [00:46:12]:
Well, I was gonna, maybe I was jumping ahead but I was going to ask if the journeyman test is more about learning how to make a robust, usable, kind of bulletproof blade. And then the master bladesmith test is more about the refinements.

Aaron Wilburn [00:46:31]:
Well, the. No, it's, it's. They're, they're both really, they're both pretty. They're both about the same really as far as like because I even to be a mastersmith now I have to do that same performance blade but it has to be with 320L of Damascus. You still have to do the performance test. So each one of those Blades, you know, 10 inch blade and it has to be able to chop through a two by four twice, you know, just chopping through it. You have to be able to cut the last 6 inches of a free hanging 1 inch manila rope and then you have to be able to shave hair with Your arm after you do all the cutting and then put it in a vise and bend it that 90 degrees so that if the blade passes, and then the master smith will finally know letter, they'll enter it. Okay, you passed the performance test.

Aaron Wilburn [00:47:18]:
That particular blade now is good for six months to, to submit your panel of knives that you're going to have judged. So then you have to make five knives. And for a journeyman, there's not a specific pattern. You just don't repeat the pattern. You can make a couple different buoys, different handles, camp knife, kitchen knife, two skinners, whatever. Just don't, don't submit the same knives. You want to give them something to look at. They don't have to be perfect, but boy, they better be pretty close.

Aaron Wilburn [00:47:46]:
And you want that aesthetic look. Now at this point, five knives are going to be submitted. I never make, I never made five. I made six or seven. And that way if something happened to one of them, if there's any problem, you have a replacement knife or a backup knife by the time you get to Atlanta. And those knives, whatever you put on the table, man, I've seen guys not pass because their guards were a little clunky or, you know, maybe that was their style. But that's not what they're looking for. They want to see nice clean work, aesthetically looking, you know, balanced.

Aaron Wilburn [00:48:19]:
They want like, say for, for this. You see how the, the ricasso and the handles fit together. They can't be off centered. You want them to, you want the eye to have that draw that appeal to what's, what you're, what you're putting out. So all of that plays a factor. Straightness. I've had them take a blade and put a, put a, a business card on the table, mark the blade, turn the blade over, mark it again, and then see whether or not those two lines line up. Because then your tip is off.

Aaron Wilburn [00:48:57]:
I mean, there's little, there's little things like that that you got to pay attention to. And it's nice to have the instruction of a mastersmith to tell you this is, this is the correct way you do it. And now even to this day, I still do that with my knives to make sure that that tip is in the center of the thickness of the blade. Because you don't. Nice looking knife and all that, and you sharpen it. But you know, maybe it could be an eighth of an inch off when you, you hold the blade flat on a table. Take a, take your business card, scratch around the tip, turn the blade over, do it again and see if those two lines line up or not. And so it's those little details that refines or makes that knife, you know, closer to perfection.

Aaron Wilburn [00:49:40]:
I don't know. It's it you, it shows you care. Those, those details that matter. Some of the hidden details that people will never see or never notice, they matter. So to perform like say for, to do that for and abs to join and become a journeyman and any journeyman class that is passed, whether it be, I think they're doing it in Texas, there's a, they might do it at west, the blade show west and Atlanta. It used to just only be in Atlanta that you would go into the biggest blade show in the world and you submit your knives there. Usually in any class like that there's probably 14 or 15 journeymen that will pass and become journeymen. But out of that class of journeyman there may only be one that goes on to become a mastersmith.

Aaron Wilburn [00:50:31]:
And that's, that's kind of my, My class was 2010 and in my class was David Lish, Michael Quesenberry, myself and Kyle Royer. So then you have to wait two years to become, to submit to become a journey or a mastersmith and you have to do the same with the performance test with a Damascus blade. But now what you have to submit is going to be they want a 10 inch quillian dagger with a fluted handle wire, you inlay yourself and all of that. And you know, they say it don't have to be perfect, but let me tell you, I've seen grown men cry because they didn't pass this test. So you have three chances to submit those knives and pass as a journeyman and you have three chances in your lifetime to submit those to, to achieve your mastersmith test or your qualifications as well to get your certification. So it's, it's, it's not something you should take. Light.

Bob DeMarco [00:51:27]:
I gotta say a blade show, I, I love walking the tables and seeing the, the five blades of either, you know, people who pass their journeyman or people who are mastersmiths. I always love looking at the quillian dagger because the handles, to me, I mean they're a mystery how, how people can make those so perfect. It just, it, it's, it's mind boggling to me there. That seems like probably the hardest thing there. But I don't know, what do I know? I, I've never forged a blade but to me making that quillian dagger, well, I mean making dagger blades period, seems difficult to get four bevels Exactly. Perfect. And then, and then the, the, that fluted handle just seems like a great knife to, to really test the metal, so to speak of, of a, of a forager.

Aaron Wilburn [00:52:15]:
Well, you know, and the thing about it too is for most master smiths, for most guys anyway, that's probably going to be the first knife, first dagger they've ever made, because it's not. We don't typically just make, you know, you're, you're reaching out to become a mastersmith or something like that. Maybe I made three or four daggers before I made my mastersmith dagger. So I have the, had the grinding of the blade down the way I liked it. And mine was a feather, damascus, quilly and dagger as well. But yeah, to, to, to grind that knife. It's, yeah, there's a lot that goes into it. Manspur and I said for a lot of guys, that might be the first time they've made that type of dagger.

Aaron Wilburn [00:52:52]:
For myself, I've made two or three quillions since then, but it, it was, yeah, it's a pucker factor for sure that you're putting all this effort into this knife. And you hope. You know, what I did was I made my knives and I took it to a master smith shop before I put everything, you know, finished it together and I had him look at my knife. What do I need to change? What, what do you see? And you know, that's, it's, it's good to be humble. You know, a synonym for humility is teachable. So you meet somebody that you know, they know it all, you can't teach them anything or, oh, it's terrible to be around person like that. Yeah.

Aaron Wilburn [00:53:29]:
Yes.

Aaron Wilburn [00:53:30]:
Be willing to listen and learn. If somebody gives you a critique on your work, take it. I mean, I've had forged in fire champions come to my house and ask me, hey, would you look at my knives? I'll look at them and, well, you know, I would change this, this and this. And then they tell me, oh, well, that's just the way I make them. I was like, oh, okay, I fold their knives up. Here you go. See you.

Bob DeMarco [00:53:50]:
Yeah, Sounds like you have it all. All.

Aaron Wilburn [00:53:53]:
Don't waste my time.

Bob DeMarco [00:53:55]:
I want to change tech before we wrap here because you've made a real successful go at being a knife maker and being a bladesmith, and it seems like you already had a bit of an entrepreneurial instinct or spirit going into it. But what kind of advice would you give knife makers, especially those who are smiths, in terms of making a go at it as a business.

Aaron Wilburn [00:54:24]:
Well, you know, for me, if I could make a living making knives, I would make money doing something else and I would still make knives. It's got to be a passion. You got it? The money can't be the first thing if you're looking at this or I'm going to make a living doing this. You can. Many people do. Wait till you get those talents. Don't give up. You know, as far as a business model and a pattern and all that, you know, I.

Aaron Wilburn [00:54:49]:
I came at this thing from the perspective of an artist. My art is making knives. And I don't take orders, I don't take deposits. I make what I want to make. And I, I think I do such a good job at what I make that my art, other people enjoy buying it and using it. So whatever you do, don't cut corners. Do the best possible work you can. If you feel like you're getting underpaid, don't worry, you're going to pay your dues.

Aaron Wilburn [00:55:17]:
In time, you'll. You'll start making more money on your knives. And that's kind of what happened for me. I mean, there's people that wouldn't even. I made a good knife before I became a journeyman, then, once I became a journeyman, then some people started looking at my knives and the price started going up. There's other people that won't even touch my stuff until I became a mastersmith. And then that opens up more doors and more opportunities. So I just keep, just keep trying.

Aaron Wilburn [00:55:42]:
If you're thinking all that's, I'm just going to quit my job and become a knife maker, you might be in for a disappointment. Develop the skill first. Have something that you're proud of to sell, and then success will follow.

Bob DeMarco [00:55:57]:
It seems like some people get in over their heads. They get popular with a knife. Probably you don't hear about this as much with smiths, but then they start taking orders and then they realize I can't fulfill all these orders, and then people get hacked and they end up going out of business or whatever, I would say that's probably something to avoid.

Aaron Wilburn [00:56:17]:
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, even, you know, from a perspective of an artist, if somebody calls me and says, hey, I like this guy the way he does this, I like this guy the way he does that, and I want you to do this, I want you to do that, and could you do this? And, you know, after a while, it's like I'm a. You know, it's like he's a puppeteer. And he's got his hand up my rear trying to take cheap, know, have me make a knife the way he wants to be made. I don't compromise that way. It's. I make what I want to make. If you enjoy my art, you'll buy it.

Aaron Wilburn [00:56:44]:
If you don't, don't worry, somebody else will. I don't take deposits. I don't. I take recommendations if you like. If you want a buoy with feather Damascus and give me the parameters and I'll build something like it. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Somebody else will. But because I know I'm going to put everything that I have in my heart and soul into that knife.

Aaron Wilburn [00:57:06]:
And typically, I haven't had a customer say, no, I don't want it yet. So do the best you can is what I can say.

Bob DeMarco [00:57:14]:
I love it. I love it. That is truly like the artist's way and I appreciate it greatly. Aaron, thank you so much for coming on the Knife Junkie podcast. I really appreciate it. I love your work. Before I let you go, can you please hold up that Bowie one last time? The one with the walrus.

Aaron Wilburn [00:57:29]:
Look at that.

Bob DeMarco [00:57:30]:
My lands. That is gorgeous.

Aaron Wilburn [00:57:33]:
Yeah. Thank you.

Bob DeMarco [00:57:35]:
Yeah, any, any, any duelist would be. Would be proud to have and wield that. Thanks again for coming on the show. It's been a pleasure.

Aaron Wilburn [00:57:44]:
My pleasure. And I hope whoever listens to this that they have found some type of nugget of that they can take with them and, and further their career in the knife making. It's been my pleasure to share this with you. Thank you.

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Bob DeMarco [00:58:30]:
There he goes. Ladies and gentlemen, Aaron Wilburn of Wilburn Forge. Do yourself a favor, check out his website and definitely check out his Instagram for some serious eye candy. And then if you're serious about his work, like he just said, he works like Picasso, for instance. He's not taking orders from the crowd. He's making what he makes and if you like it, you might have a chance to buy it. So I think I know a couple of people out there, audience members of this show, who, whose ears just pricked up from that. So be sure to check him out on Instagram.

Bob DeMarco [00:59:03]:
All right? For Jim working his magic behind the switcher, I'm Bob DeMarco saying until next time, don't take Dull for an answer.

Announcer [00:59:10]:
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