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Announcer [00:00:03]:
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast, your weekly dose of knife news and information about knives and knife collecting. Here's your host, Bob the knife junkie Demarco

Bob DeMarco [00:00:15]:
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast. I'm Bob DeMarco. On this edition of the show, I'm speaking with Billy Ford of Apex Alchemy Knives. You may know Billy from his YouTube channel where he talks all things knives on discussion videos, reviews, and live streams. But recently, Billy turned that love of carrying and using knives into a passion for building them. Under Apex Alchemy Knives, Billy, with the help of a custom knife phenom, is producing 2 fixed blade models that I know of using both fully handmade and mid tech processes. We'll find out from Billy what it's like to go from enthusiast to commentator to maker.

Bob DeMarco [00:00:56]:
But first, be sure to like, comment, subscribe, hit the notification bell, and download the show to your favorite podcast app. Plus, share the show with a friend. That really helps. And, also, so does Patreon. Go to the knifejunkie.com/patreon if you wanna help support the show that way. That's the knifejunkie.com/patreon.

Announcer [00:01:15]:
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Announcer [00:01:36]:
Billy, welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast. Pleasure to see you, sir.

Billy Ford [00:01:40]:
Man, thanks for having me on, Bob. It's a it's an honor, man. It's great great to be here.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:45]:
The honor is mine. And, as is, having a couple of your knives in hand that you sent to me, I'm very impressed with what you've sent, and we're gonna talk about them, dig into them, find out all about them, and, hopefully, you have some examples on your end. But if not, I've got, I think I've got it covered on mine. Thank you for sending these over. I appreciate it.

Billy Ford [00:02:08]:
Not a problem. I, actually, I had two examples here, and I left them both with the sheath maker today. I've, I've discovered there's a leather worker, or is that what you what do you call a Leatherman? What what is it?

Bob DeMarco [00:02:20]:
I I don't know. I like Leatherman. That that works for me.

Billy Ford [00:02:23]:
Yeah. Yeah. So there was a there's a guy that works leather. He's a he's a just a little bit past Jed, and and, I'm not really happy with my Kydex. You know, making it, it's either too tight or it's too loose. Takes me 4 or 5 hours to make a sheath. I was like, man, I'm gonna I'm gonna get somebody else involved, get some good sheaths.

Billy Ford [00:02:42]:
Because, like, you gotta have a good sheath, man. If if if a knife isn't easy to carry, now you're gonna pass it up. And I got several examples around here that prove that. You know, like, I love the knife. I don't like the sheath. I don't carry it. You know?

Bob DeMarco [00:02:56]:
Like like what what knife since we're there?

Billy Ford [00:02:59]:
Oh, man. I like the company, so please don't. You know, this isn't a bashing thing, but, you know, like, I I could fix this, you know, myself, you know, now, but, like, the the black rhino. But, this is a giveaway now. I still had to get it get it out, but I'm not crazy about these, these clips that are on here. And there's the holes don't really go up high enough to, to put it on my belt where I I want it. You know, I could I could, I could utilize a a clip here, but then the knife's gonna ride so high.

Bob DeMarco [00:03:34]:
Yep. Top Snipes, they they have some great, some great sheaves, but I agree with you. I'm not a fan of that rotating spring clip. But before we go too far down that rabbit hole, because I know we could we could talk we could go down a lot of different paths, talking about knives.

Billy Ford [00:03:51]:
Absolutely.

Bob DeMarco [00:03:52]:
But, you know, we're gonna talk about your knives. But before we do, I wanna find out about you. I know, I mean, I first met you on Thursday Night Knives. You commented and you were on the road. You drive for a living and, but you're also a knife enthusiast. Have you always been a knife guy?

Billy Ford [00:04:12]:
And tell me about that. Not really. I I'm I'm, I I to be honest, I was working at the place that I'm working now. I've I've always carried a knife. Like, I I've always either had a Swiss army knife or, you know, some sort of a slip joint in my in my pocket. But I was working with a guy named Taylor. He's a friend of mine. I haven't seen him quite some time.

Billy Ford [00:04:35]:
I don't work work together anymore, but he, he pulled a Benchmade. It was a Allen Ellis with design of some sort. I don't I don't I can't remember the model, and I probably butchered Allen's name. But, he was flipping it, and he was just letting it, you know, do its thing on the access lock or whatever. And I was like, what is that, dude? And I was like, this is a Benchmade. And I was like, what is a Benchmade? And, you know, he was like, are you serious? And I was like, yeah, man. This was this was probably 2016, 2017, something like that. And he he let me handle it, and I was like, what's what's something like this cost? And he was like, I gave 250 for this night.

Billy Ford [00:05:13]:
And I was like, 250? I was like, I was like, I can't believe that you're like you'll not go that high. He said, oh, they go a lot higher than that. So, like, me and him developed a friendship and and his love for now has actually got me in and I was and I started buying them pretty quickly after that. I didn't realize I didn't realize there was a, you know, a market for for, like I would've called Benchmade a high end rack at the time, and still there's I'm not saying there's anything wrong with them, but, like, I've just kinda graduated past that now. You know? Right. Right.

Bob DeMarco [00:05:44]:
It's it's not what you, put put at the top, but, so do you think that it's, something that was inherently there? I'm trying to get to a universal theory of of knife appeal.

Billy Ford [00:05:57]:
Oh, yeah. Do you think

Bob DeMarco [00:05:58]:
it was something that was dormant in you?

Billy Ford [00:06:00]:
Absolutely, man. My my dad, my brother, my you know, both both served in the in the military and, gifts often were knives. I I remember getting a garter gater a a garter gater, from my brother when he, he got back from boot camp. That was when I was 15 or 16. I didn't really carry it. It had a pouch. It didn't have a pocket clip, I think. But, it was kinda big.

Billy Ford [00:06:23]:
I just tried to stick it in my pocket. And I remember every time I took it out of my pocket, it would flip my pocket out. But even before that, you know, my my dad, he was he always carried a ballastong. Like, always carried a ballastong. Really? That's cool. Yeah. He didn't know any tricks. Like, I I remember, like, you know, he was kind of a comedian and and people were asking him about tricks.

Billy Ford [00:06:41]:
And he was like, I know one trick with it. And they they take it out, they'd open it, you know, flip it open and but that's that's the trick I know to get it to where I need it. You know, I figured it and then I, you know, flip it back closed. It wasn't a it it it wasn't really a circus act with it, you know. Like but watching those guys play with those things is, is mesmerizing, but I I've never I've never learned any tricks either. But, yeah, man. I've had I've I've had my I've had knives I guess my first night that meant anything to me. I graduated 8th grade, and somebody gave me one of my parents one of my dad's friends gave me a Boker pre brand, and it had, like, a pearl type of handle to it.

Billy Ford [00:07:26]:
It was a it was a German made knife. It was beautiful. I carried that knife until I was, just about married, and I I I wound up losing it. I had no idea what happened to it, but I probably I I think I carried that knife for, I don't know, 12, 13 years or something like that, you know, before I lost it.

Bob DeMarco [00:07:46]:
When I lose knives and it happens every once in a while, I I hope that it gets in the right hands. That's always my hope. Yeah. It's not some dirtbag who who, who stole it or is gonna go do a crime, but it's someone who really needs it.

Billy Ford [00:07:59]:
Right. Yeah. And that's sort of like a full size congress. I didn't know that at the time, you know, but you like, and I know it now. You know, like I was you know, I I can go back and and find something identical to it or close to identical to it. But it seems like every time I find a congress, you know, made by Boker and I'm not saying that would be the one to get. I just kinda wanna replace it for for nostalgia reasons. But every every time I run across one, it's not it's not German made.

Billy Ford [00:08:26]:
It seems to be, Chinese, which I'm not saying that matters. I'm, you know, it's just I'm I'm looking for the identical.

Bob DeMarco [00:08:33]:
Well, but in terms of a poker, it does. If you want the highest quality poker, you'll you'll put the the German. So so let me ask you, you make this friend at work and, he opens your eyes. Benchmade is the is your gateway knife. What was your first, like, you know, I'm I'm laying down some serious cash for this knife. What was it?

Billy Ford [00:08:55]:
Benchmade 9 40, and it was fake. You know, I I got I got online. I got on eBay, and I was looking, like, I didn't know there was knife stores, but I started you know, I've I've always been a eBay aficionado. So, like, you know, I I got on eBay and I was looking for a 9:40. I, actually, I was just scouring BenchMates, and I I run across one of those ones designed. And I was like, I've gotta get one of these, man. This is cool. But, like, the one that I found was, like, 208 or something like that.

Billy Ford [00:09:24]:
I can't remember why.

Bob DeMarco [00:09:26]:
Because it was legit. That's why.

Billy Ford [00:09:28]:
Yeah. Because it was legit. But what you know, the the legit price back then for the the aluminum and, I think the the the 940 dash 2 had just come out in v 10. And, like, you could get either one of those models for sub 200, but the 940 dash 1 and s 90 v, correct me if I'm wrong, and carbon fiber, I wanna say that knife was, like, 250 or 260. This one just was, like, priced in between. And I, you know, still this day, I really don't know what made it special. But, I was shopping around, and I was like, you know, I found 1 I found a 9 40 dash 2 for, $75. And I was like, I'll I'll grab that one.

Billy Ford [00:10:09]:
It's used. It's it's good to go. You know? I get it. I handed it to Taylor and he was like, hey, man. If you're happy with it, you're happy with it, but it's not real. And then I found out they made fake knives. You know, like, you know, it's, it's not like that that that that sent me down a rabbit hole too, you know. So it was, it was it was kinda interesting.

Billy Ford [00:10:27]:
But then I I replaced it with a real 9 40 dash 2. I just bought it straight from, light h g. Hey. You know? Taylor sent me the light h g, and it was over from there.

Bob DeMarco [00:10:37]:
Yeah. That's funny. And it probably opened your eyes, man. A whole new market, that you're interested in, and now you find out, they make fakes, fugazis, in that in that market. It's it's kinda funny. So your your your taste grow how do you do you use knives for work?

Billy Ford [00:10:58]:
Absolutely. Yes, sir. I use knives every I will I will say every other day because typically I spend one day at my job driving to my location. I'll get down there. I'll find a spot. I'll I'll pull over. I'll, I'll stay the night. I get up the next day, and I I break down my own load.

Billy Ford [00:11:15]:
So wherever I'm delivering to, I've gotta get along with that. I've gotta cut, which is, it's shrink-wrap. It's what I would call glorified saran wrap, and it's usually a few millimeters thick. And, you know, I'll run it. And some of these pallets are 70 2 inches tall, and, I'll I'll run it from the top to the floor. And, I do that 28 to 30 times, you know, per day. And, it I my knives go through some abuse, man. But, like, that's, that's a that's about the extent of it.

Billy Ford [00:11:46]:
But it makes testing edges easy because it's always the same. You know what I mean? Like, it's Mhmm. If I wanna test one knife against another, somebody's 154 against somebody else's 154, I can be like, well, this, you know, this this knife over here with a similar edge lasted 6 weeks, or this one only lasted 2. You know? But, anyway yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:12:08]:
So was it that repetition, that that, daily or every other day repetition and kinda informally testing knives and edges that got you to start your channel?

Billy Ford [00:12:22]:
No. What got me to, start my channel was, I think the one of the second knives or real One of the first five knobs that I bought was a Benchmade Rift, and it came in and had a coating on it. But I bought it used off of eBay, and it was it was totally trash, man. It was, the the coating on it was was ridiculous. So I sent it back in the Benchmade and I got a new blade put on it. And I asked them, I said, can I just get it without the coating? I'm not really crazy about the look of the, you know, the coating being half off. And they're like, that's fine. And they charged me $30.

Billy Ford [00:12:56]:
And this was back in, I don't know, 2017, 2018, something like that. And I had, I broke my I broke the tip-off my 9 40 dash 2. Somewhere around COVID. You know, like, I I guess it was, like, 2020, 2021, something like that. I can't remember exactly. But I broke the tip-off of it. And, I went to, you know, price, you know, what was what was going on replacing the tip, the warranty. And I realized it was $90 now, so it, like, tripled in price.

Billy Ford [00:13:31]:
And after that, my first video, I was like, no. Only no subscribers. Only none of that. I'm just putting out this video to let you guys know that Benchmade has tripled the prices on a on on a blade replacement. Wow. I'm sure they have the reasons, but instead of doing that, I'm just buying a car to all length. So, like, you know, it was in 20 CV and, you know, and and the knife was okay. I just you know, I don't I learned that I don't, like, assisted opening Yeah.

Billy Ford [00:13:55]:
Very much.

Bob DeMarco [00:13:56]:
Yeah. So so that was the the birth of Apex Alchemy YouTube knife channel. Not, well, not necessarily calling out Benchmade, but, a public service announcement in a way.

Billy Ford [00:14:11]:
Public service announcement, man. I never really wanted to be a knife reviewer. You know? Like, I I always wanted to like, after that, people started watching the video and asked me when I was coming out with something else because I I it was probably 2 months. You know? Like, I've and they were like, are you ever gonna record anything else? If not, I'm gonna I'm gonna leave. And I was like, well, what I do, video's on because I don't wanna be a knife reviewer. So I've I've always tried to find something different. And some of it's not pleasant to talk about. You know? But like, I I in order to add value to the Nike community, I think we got some really great reviewers out there.

Billy Ford [00:14:46]:
And I don't really think that I ever fit the bill of being a Nike reviewer. So how do I add value? You know, and some of the stuff was like when you called that one video I made, you know, about where all these materials come from in your sugar skills. Oh, yeah. And I dig them up and, you know, Congo and stuff and you're roughly sobering. You know? And it is in a you know, it kinda it's kind of a kilo joy to share this information. So when I go down those rabbit holes and I do research

Bob DeMarco [00:15:14]:
Wait. Just, explain what you're talking about there, what that video was about.

Billy Ford [00:15:20]:
That video, was about, you know, where, you know, a cobalt comes from comes from the, you know, the Congo, and, it's mostly children that are digging it up out of the ground, you know, and and at point of a k 47. And it it's not just most of that cobalt's coming out of the ground for for batteries for electric cars. You know? Like, but some you know, like, eventually, that cobalt's going to make it you know, you know, some of it's gonna make it what make its way into some of your higher end steels that I love, like Rec 70 6. You know, it's the steel that I I stand behind. We got I think the I wanna say it's, like, 7.6% tungsten and, like, maybe 8% cobalt. So look at, like, both of those minerals or elements come out of the ground and and, you know, at the cost of slave labor.

Bob DeMarco [00:16:11]:
I gotcha. I gotcha. And and those are particularly exotic steels that require those elements, but if you get a a more, pedestrian steel, it won't require that and yeah.

Billy Ford [00:16:26]:
Yeah. And and I'm I'm not worried about it.

Bob DeMarco [00:16:28]:
In those in those amounts. In those amounts, I should say. Yeah. That that was that was a good so those those are kind of the discussion videos I was talking about upfront. And and I feel like a lot of, you're you're a HRC, guy. And what I've been by that is is I know that you've, it's been a topic of discussion quite a bit.

Billy Ford [00:16:53]:
I had to get a HRC tester anyway, you know, because I was I was heat treating my knives in the forge. So I figured it was a service I could offer, but that's another rabbit hole. And that's not one that we should probably go down, especially not right now. We can talk about it in private if you want to. But I I mean, I have went into it and let people know about the the variances and the and the tolerances being on on the Rockwell scale, let's go down it for a second. Can we go down?

Bob DeMarco [00:17:21]:
Yes. Let's do.

Billy Ford [00:17:22]:
For a second. I don't wanna kill anybody's joy. But we see I'm gonna use an example. Pinder come out with, you know, the Polydudex and MagnaCut. Mhmm. He was doing it at 61 or 62. People weren't happy they wanted it at 62 or 64. Alright.

Billy Ford [00:17:39]:
So my problem with that is is I've got an owner's manual to this machine, and it's the same machine that Larry and Thomas owns. And it's also the same machine that Jed owns, and it's the same machine that that Brian from Transparent Knitosomes. So trust the machine, but the owner's manual goes into it you know, the room needs to be 70 degrees. It also needs to be, well, I mean, that's about the that's about the best you can do with it. Make sure it's got oil in it, and it's gotta be 70 degrees. But the indenter that you use has a 2 point variable or tolerance. The, weights, so the machine itself

Bob DeMarco [00:18:14]:
You mean the material itself, can can, like, alter its shape depending on the hardness of what it's testing?

Billy Ford [00:18:23]:
Well, it can just be off by 2 points. You know, like the the indenture can be the indenture can be off by 2 points. That's what's penetrating the seal. Also, the the testing block, the calibration block can be off by 2 points. The machine can be off by 2 points. You you take all those those numbers, that's 6 points. You slide those those numbers over to the soft side, and whatever the number is reading, it could literally be 6 points softer than that. Or it could be 6 points harder than that.

Billy Ford [00:18:55]:
And I did a little test not too long ago. I didn't make a video. I've got a lot of people asking me to quit talking about this because it's killing joy. You know, like, people want to believe what they wanna believe, and I'm not a very good comforter. You know? The truth isn't gonna change to comfort me. It's the truth isn't gonna change to comfort you. But there's a very simple solution to this. And some people don't wanna hear it, but there's 3 different ways you can test the the the the hardness of the steel.

Billy Ford [00:19:21]:
You got the Vicker scale. That is the most accurate scale known to man for testing hardness of steel. Then you have the Brennal scale, which is probably the least accurate way of testing the hardness of steel. And then you have the Rockwell scale, which is the oldest and the most trusted way of testing the hardness of steel. This isn't a problem except for the fact that we wanna beat up companies that don't get within 2 or 3 points of what we're asking for. Mhmm. And some of these people are are HRC ing their knives in a shop that's 75 degrees. So this little test I did, you know, I I I set the thermostat at 70.

Billy Ford [00:20:04]:
I calibrated my machine. My my calibration block's at 63. So, you know, I'm I'm doing this for the knives that I am making. I don't I don't necessarily care what tops is running the rock well at as long as I can sharpen it and I hold the edge for as long as I need to. But the deal is is there's a fly in here. But the what was I saying, Bob?

Bob DeMarco [00:20:29]:
You were saying that you

Billy Ford [00:20:31]:
I'm sorry, dude.

Bob DeMarco [00:20:32]:
You put your put your stop to 70.

Billy Ford [00:20:35]:
Yeah. Yeah. I set the I set the the the thermostat to 70 degrees. I I took a scanner and I scanned the the test block. It was at 70 degrees. I had to let the room we we we generally keep around 64, 65, something like that. We we live in a in a, you know, in a orbit. But we we I I scanned the indenter.

Billy Ford [00:20:56]:
I scanned the calibration block. Everything, even the knife blade was all within 70 degrees range. Right? And we tested the knife and it was, it tested at slot 61 or something like that. Right? I go back and and turn my my thermostat back down to 65. And I give it about 8 or 9 hours. And I I when I get up in the morning, I go in there and start scanning everything. It's about around that 65 degree mark, the all the indenter, the the test block, the blade. I test it.

Billy Ford [00:21:28]:
It's testing 2 points high. Wow. Yeah. And what happens to steel when it gets cold? You know? When when steel gets cold

Bob DeMarco [00:21:37]:
It contracts.

Billy Ford [00:21:39]:
It gets hotter, man. You know? Like, so if it's negative 17 degrees outside and you drop your your knife on on a on the concrete, it's probably gonna break. It's gonna look it's gonna become more brittle. It becomes more brittle because it's harder. And so, like, I I bumped that thermostat up to 75 degrees. And then low and behold, it tested 4 points harder or 2 points hard I mean, I'm sorry. Four points softer or 2 points softer than the 70 degree benchmark. So just the variation of 10 degrees is kinda the 4 point a 4 point variance of how that machine's gonna operate.

Billy Ford [00:22:19]:
And you catch a lot of flack when the when you when you, run numbers and and people aren't they're not seeing the points that they wanna see.

Bob DeMarco [00:22:28]:
Okay. This is what I was gonna say. How can how can that be killing the joy, since joy is the word of the season? How how can that be killing the joy? It's, you know, that's that's good information to have. It's also, it's also somewhat reassuring that if a problem needs to be solved, it can be solved by changing the, you know, by reading the manual, basically. But we're guys. Lots of us don't read manuals.

Billy Ford [00:22:54]:
That's true.

Bob DeMarco [00:22:54]:
So so to me, that shouldn't that shouldn't be a, that that that shouldn't be a killjoy. That should be like, that's good information to have. And also also, people should probably probably admit that the reason they're concerned about HRC is so that they know they're getting the most from their money, not because they notice it, in performance.

Billy Ford [00:23:18]:
Right, man. And, you know, I I I look at it as just information. You like, I I like to put the information out there and you do whatever you want to with it. I don't I'm not asking anybody to feel any kind of way about the information I put out there, I've, and I'm not asking anybody to subscribe to it. You don't have to believe what I'm saying. It's all it's all free information, you know, like if you get on Google or whatever. But it surprises me how many people get hung up on a couple of points, bro. They'll they'll they'll you know, if I tested a Kung Lou Padre, you know, it's supposed to be 61 to 63.

Billy Ford [00:23:50]:
And I think I got or or I'm sorry. It may have it may have supposed to have been higher than that. 62, 63, 64, something something like that. I think I got a 60 to 61. And my comments were full of people saying I didn't know what I was talking about, man.

Bob DeMarco [00:24:03]:
Who bought the Padre?

Billy Ford [00:24:05]:
Right. The the Padre

Bob DeMarco [00:24:08]:
Which is a beautiful knife, by the way.

Billy Ford [00:24:10]:
It is It is a beautiful knife. And it was a it I I believe that one belonged to Mitch Bullock. But, you know, he sent it in for testing. But, you know, and I I explained this to Mitch and he seemed to get it, you know, and I was trying to, you know, I I put out a video trying to explain the, the way these, these HRC machines can be off by a couple of points. It's not even that big of a deal. And and you've got a lot of people, trolls, I guess you would call them, you know, saying like, this no. That's not the way it works. You know, as long as it's calibrated, yep, yep.

Billy Ford [00:24:41]:
Like and they they there's so many there's so many variations or or or not there's so many variables that go into the the final number that it it's not just as simple as it seems. You know? Like, I've I've seen I've seen several people that do HRC testing out, you know, on YouTube that people trust, and they're doing it in their garage. And unless they live in Ecuador, it's probably not 70 degrees inside that garage. Right?

Bob DeMarco [00:25:10]:
I I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean so, basically, also what you're saying is that, Hinderer might be shipping a knife that that purports to be a certain hardness and actually is a certain hardness, but when you test it, if your room isn't set up properly, you could be wrong about it.

Billy Ford [00:25:30]:
So right, man. I could be just as wrong as anybody else. You know? And and,

Bob DeMarco [00:25:33]:
I don't mean I don't mean you in particular because I know you set up your room, but, I mean, one who is testing it and, like, you know, I am a Hinderer devotee, and I am not, though I have 4, and I love them dearly. It's like, I'm a hungerer devotee, and I know the answer I wanna find out. So I'm gonna do this test, and,

Billy Ford [00:25:52]:
I

Bob DeMarco [00:25:52]:
don't know. If it's not set up properly, it could really vary.

Billy Ford [00:25:56]:
It could. It could vary.

Bob DeMarco [00:25:57]:
And they're not where they were.

Billy Ford [00:25:59]:
Yeah, man.

Bob DeMarco [00:26:01]:
Alright. Well, no. No. No. No. I I don't mean to, I don't mean to brush that aside, but it's this kind of passionate talk. And I I know you you are also someone who's, from time to time passionate about, blade geometry. I'm assuming that it's these kind of things, these more technical, sides of things that led you to actually start making.

Bob DeMarco [00:26:24]:
Let's talk about how that happened and, how how you got off the ground.

Billy Ford [00:26:29]:
Okay. Well, man, my name is first of all, I'm I'm an infant when it comes to knife making. You know, like, I have got a great mentor, you know, but I'm simply just a protege right now. Jed Hornbeek has teach me you know, he's taught me just about everything that I know. And the things he hasn't taught me that I think I know, I probably need to forget. But the how I got started in knife making was Scab was he was hosting a a knife making competition. And he Scab asked me if I was gonna do it. And I had just met Jed, but I only met Jed as a customer.

Billy Ford [00:27:02]:
I was going over there. I I think I bought, you know, 4 or 5 of his knobs altogether, something like that. And I I asked Jed, I said, are you gonna are you gonna enter the knife making competition? He said, no, man. I think that's more for beginners, you know. He said, are you gonna join? Are you gonna enter the knife making competition? I said, dude, I wouldn't know where to start. He said, I got a piece of steel here, the 80 c r v 2, if you wanna give it a shot. And I was like I was like, dude, I don't know what these machines do. And he was like, that's okay.

Billy Ford [00:27:32]:
He said, I got you back. He said, I'll teach you how to use the machine, but you gotta do all the work. And I was like, okay. You know, like, I'll try. You know, man, it it was in me. You know what I mean? Like, whenever I left I I left that experience and it you know, a couple of weeks, I you know, that amygdala that you have that has my car to handle, I probably had 37 hours logged into that night. You know, like, I I I was trying to keep up with how long it took. And I was only I was over at Jed's house, like, 3 or 4 hours a day, sometimes 6 or 7.

Billy Ford [00:28:05]:
But it took forever to make that night. And so I was over there for, you know, several weeks, not not all at once. You know, it'd be a couple days this week, couple days that week, whatever our schedules, you know, would allow, to match. And we would, you know, it it would let me use his machinery. And, it was it was a very awesome experience. But whenever I I finished that experience, I was like, I can't just not do this, man. You know? Like, I've got to be able to continue to do this. You know? Like, so I started asking him about advice about, you know, like, what what type of 2 by 72 grinder do I need to buy? You know? And then it didn't take long to realize how expensive all this stuff is, but it didn't really stop me from Yeah.

Billy Ford [00:28:53]:
You know, like, filling up the shop full of machines. But it was it was something I knew that I wanted to do for the, you know, for the rest of my life, even if it's small scale. You know? It's it's

Bob DeMarco [00:29:02]:
You had 4 Jed Hornbeek, brand new Jed Hornbeek knives you could sell. Would you do something like I'm saying that sarcastically. I mean, because I I have one of his knives and, you know, I I don't wanna think about parting with it. You know?

Billy Ford [00:29:17]:
Right. No. Yeah. It's, my brother did end up with a couple of those. Scav has one, that may end up being his. And then once the plan ATC has my 4th one, and Courtney's got one around here somewhere like a a Hanzaki. It's one of those, a wrap handle, like, Japanese style knob. Oh, yeah.

Billy Ford [00:29:34]:
But, yeah. I don't actually even have one of my Hornbeats in the house, but my brother did buy a couple of them so I could, finance a machine. And with my brother owning it, it's, you know, like, we we have, like, this thing, like, you know, he can come get any knife he wants and, you know, and and vice versa. So it, like, didn't really leave permanently. You know, I like I said, I got visitation right, Bob. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Bob DeMarco [00:30:02]:
Yes. Yeah. It's in the family. I know exactly what you mean. It's a great way to keep knives, sort of. So, with this knife, so this is the one that you made in Jed or or a one that you made in Jed Hornbeek's shop. Is this where it started, or, you know, what it would did you okay. So I know that you are working in this shop, and you just said that you, got a 2 by 72.

Bob DeMarco [00:30:27]:
Like, was that your first machine? And, like, tell me about these 2.

Billy Ford [00:30:33]:
Okay. So the the one with the micron handle, it's got a flat grind. Yeah. And that was actually, like, the second knife that I made. The first I'd actually started grinding the hollow grind on a, another knife, and I screwed it up completely. Like, I didn't never complete it. But I did complete one other knife, and I've got it here, but it's out of reach right now. But I completed one other knife, that I was gonna, send into the competition and, you know, at at Jed's, you know, like, advice.

Billy Ford [00:31:04]:
He was like, you gonna build another one? Other you know, because he he I think he gave me 48 inches of of bar stock. And I was like, I was like, do I need you? And he was like, man. He said for a bushcraft knife, they really don't have that long of a blade. You know? So I I actually made one with a really long handle and a little short blade, and it really wasn't, like, set up for bushcraft. Oh, neither is the amygdala. You know, really. I mean, it's not really a bushcraft knife, but I thought I was supposed to be designing something brand new. You know, like, you know, like, not trying to reinvent the wheel, but, like, coming up with my own idea of what a bushcraft knife could be.

Billy Ford [00:31:43]:
But, like, it was apparent after I I saw the other knives in the competition that it was okay just to make a, you know, a a not point knife, you know, that that that's a tried and true, you know. And, and had I known that, that's probably what I would have done. But, yeah, I'm glad I did the amygdala because I got a lot of great feedback off of it. You know, like, some some stuff to work on. Also, you know, I got a lot of positive feedback on it where, you know, some people said it was like one of the most comfortable handles they've ever held in their life, and that means the world to me because I just grew it up on steel, dude.

Bob DeMarco [00:32:18]:
Well, something about the long handle on the amygdala, it reminded me of the, the j x, from from, prepared mind 101 and, tough, WorkTough Gear, you know, with the extra long handle and the big, clip point blade. Same thing. It gives you a lot of leverage for chopping here. Obviously, up in that choil, you can get real close to what you're working on, get the thumb up there and all that. But you have a whole other like, you could have I could have 7 of my fingers on this.

Billy Ford [00:32:51]:
I could do.

Bob DeMarco [00:32:52]:
And you can come back here. You have a full handle grip for chopping if you have a a fob or a or a lanyard. I mean, you're all the way back here. So, I I thought the the handle size was a really good idea for a bushcraft knife, actually.

Billy Ford [00:33:07]:
It kinda makes it hard to carry. I'm I like, I I I need to I've you know, I that's in the works, like, getting a sheet that's made for a knife with that long of a handle. You know? That was that was the first suggestion from the leather, man, the leatherman. He, he he was like, you make a that that, that handle a little shorter, it'll be a little less heavy. And I was like, we ain't messing with that hand. But but the the second one that that you showed, the the one with the red and the the black acrylic or whatever that is. It said they call it composite. I'm I'm assuming it's gonna be acrylic resin bonded something other.

Billy Ford [00:33:42]:
But, that one, so the blade is actually water jetted, heat treated, and hollow ground, by Brad Vice or one of his employees. You know? Like, so I I don't I don't know that Brad Vice actually did it, but, you know, he owns Alabama Damascus. And, you know, so that one's a 51.60 instead of ABC RV 2. And he did offer ABC RV 2, and I don't have a problem with ABC RV 2, but I I've learned that I really like 51.60. So I wanted to I wanted to try that still. I'm sorry?

Bob DeMarco [00:34:17]:
Why do you like 5160?

Billy Ford [00:34:19]:
Man, it's as far as a tough still, it's tough. Right. It holds I mean okay. Yeah. It's it's no. You're good. I'm sorry. I'm I'm I'm probably interrupting you a lot.

Billy Ford [00:34:29]:
But the the it's a tough steel. It holds an edge pretty decent. It doesn't hold an edge as long as ADC R v 2, but it does hold 1, you know, fairly decent for a a low alloy carbon. And it's, there's just nothing wrong with it. You know, it doesn't rust as easy as 80 c r v 2 for whatever reason probably because it's a nickel compound, but or it may not be. I don't know. I I I'm not sure if 51.60 has nickel or not, but it's, it it seems to not rust as easy. But that's that's something that's never really been a a great big concern of mine, man.

Billy Ford [00:35:06]:
I I don't mind putting a little oil or, you know, some some wax, you know, on on my blades to to keep them out of the weather.

Bob DeMarco [00:35:16]:
So what's your, how how do you what's your process?

Billy Ford [00:35:20]:
Well, I don't really have a process. You know, like, I wouldn't say I have anything that's tried, true, and perfected. But I ordered 5 amygdalas from Brad, and 20 raptors, the the smaller one. Yeah. And, when I got them in, I realized, like, 11 of those raptors are gonna need to be, reground. So Saturday is gonna take care of that. You know, Saturday? Mhmm. Yeah.

Billy Ford [00:35:47]:
Okay. Today's gonna do the regrounds on those, and we're I get them back, and then I'm gonna put some handles on. You know? Like but all I'm really doing like on the raptura, I'm crowning the spine. I'm doing the finish. Whatever you know, we're gonna, bead blast it or, you know, and and stone wash it or we we may we've got a few that have a acid wash ferric chloride, and then I stone wash it afterwards. But, you know, I first thing I do is crown the spine. And then I I put the handles on and we decide what finish is gonna go on there. And then, that's about it.

Billy Ford [00:36:26]:
You know? But, I mean, I say that's it.

Bob DeMarco [00:36:28]:
Your process is you're you're you're making knives like mid tech makers make knives in a way. Like, you know, having some of the pieces made here, having them some of them made here, but you're you're producing it or you're, like, conducting the orchestra, so to speak, putting them together and and shipping them out.

Billy Ford [00:36:49]:
Yeah. I you know, Ken Onion, the term the, you know, mid tech, you know, I think he'd come up with a definition for that. And, you know, that's it's a pretty it's a simple definition, but it covers a wide range. I spend about 5 and a half hours on those handles. And since everything else is done by hand here in America, you know, like, we are getting somebody else to do it. So it's not a full custom by me. Right? But some people would still consider it to be a semi custom. I don't know the terminology, brother.

Billy Ford [00:37:22]:
You know, like, I don't I don't I'm I'm having fun with handles right now. You know, that's that that's my goal is just to get good at handles.

Bob DeMarco [00:37:31]:
I just remember, Les George taught, what the first time I ever heard the term mid tech, he was like, oh, I'm I'm making these v sets in in the mid tech way, and and he was describing, like, having, you know, like like a producer of a film does. Have the best guy who does this do that, and then bring it together, and then you do all the, or or, like, maybe maybe a better, a more apt analogy is, like, old school painters who would make giant battle scenes, and the painters themselves would only paint the important faces and hands, and then their atelier would paint the rest of everything else. You know? Okay. It's like you're doing kind of the finishing work, like the in the beginning work, it's alpha and omega because you're designing the thing. And by the way, I've I've been using this to shave pencils. I hope you don't mind, and it's fantastic for it. It's one of my one of the things I use my knives for most. This is the Raptora.

Bob DeMarco [00:38:31]:
Let's talk about this because we were just talking about the amygdala, with the with the large handle and the large leaf shaped blade, for as an outdoor knife. This is more of well, tell us about this.

Billy Ford [00:38:43]:
I wanted to come up with something. Like, Scab asked me about when he had possession of the amygdala, he asked me, he said, man I said, Megatron was kinda wondering if you can make that handle any smaller, you know, for on a on a similar model. Just, you know, like, maybe something with a a more usable edge type or or or, you know, whatever. So I was I was just, you know, toying around with the one clip out there, you know, leave the hump back there on the back. But I made that I made the Raptora handle as small as I could to get a 4 finger grip on it without choking up. You know, like it was and and then, you know, I handed it to Courtney, and she was like, it feels really good. And Courtney's got really small hands. So I was thinking maybe that's it.

Billy Ford [00:39:32]:
You know, I could probably go a little bit smaller with it, you know, for for if if we're trying to keep females in mind. But I was having a lot of guys, a lot of friends say, I'll buy an amygdala. You know? And I was like, man, you ain't even seen them yet. You know? And and the amygdala is gonna be expensive. You know, like, I knew it was gonna be expensive. It it cost a lot of money to make a purchase. And I had a lot of people saying, I'm just gonna buy this knife to support you. You know, like, I don't really care what it was like, whatever.

Billy Ford [00:39:58]:
I was like and so I had I had a number of reasons to come out with the Rectora. Because the Rectora was a a smaller knife, a less expensive knife. You know, like, I've I've got it priced to the point where after shipping it to the customer, I'm not making anything. And that's fine. I don't I don't I don't mind being at that point. But, like, if you just want to support me, then it's a lot easier on the wallet to buy one of those than it is to buy an amygdala.

Bob DeMarco [00:40:27]:
And probably more likely that you're gonna use it just due

Billy Ford [00:40:30]:
to its

Bob DeMarco [00:40:30]:
size and its weight. It's nice and svelte, and it's beautiful, this one, with the with the sort of, teal Terra Tuff and white handle. Crown spine, it's a very luxurious feeling knife with a very thin hollow grind. Yeah, man. This is a this is a very nice EDC fixed blade.

Billy Ford [00:40:52]:
And and Malcolm Holt is the one that's doing the edges on those knives, and he's a good friend of mine.

Bob DeMarco [00:40:57]:
Oh, nice.

Billy Ford [00:40:58]:
He's been a supporter of the channel, and he's just he he he does a really good job on edges, you know, and he's just he's just now started up his YouTube I'm sorry, his Instagram page. And I wanna say he calls it the wizard's edge. So he's gonna start he's gotten to the point where he's talkable with, you know, taking taking customers. You know? So he he wants to start doing that. And he asked me, he was like, do you mind if I put some edges on some of these knives? You know? So, like, that that helps out a lot. You know? I got I can make a notch sharp, but he does it better than me. He's got a fixed angle system that he uses and

Bob DeMarco [00:41:39]:
Very consistent edge. Very nice edge on this. So, like, so you have these 2 models, and they're pretty different. You know? This one's a very fine, thin hollow ground, and this one's a big, you know, pretty stout outdoors knife. I wouldn't blink about batoning this one through wood, though I won't because it's not mine.

Billy Ford [00:42:03]:
But You can do that. You can do that.

Bob DeMarco [00:42:05]:
Okay. I will. That's only one of the that's one of the few things I do with my fixed blades that is fun.

Billy Ford [00:42:11]:
Brother, it's it's a it survived Donny b all day, and it survived scab. Oh, oh, oh. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Videos on it? Yeah. I I I urge you to use it. Or, you know, like, if you break it, I'll be honored.

Bob DeMarco [00:42:24]:
Well, after knowing what they do, it this will be a vacation. Walk in a park walk in the park

Billy Ford [00:42:29]:
for this night. But, what

Bob DeMarco [00:42:31]:
I was saying is, okay. You have one that's, like, very, svelte and thin and would be great for EDC, especially with the grind and the thinness and everything and this. You know, I you said you wanna do this now for

Billy Ford [00:42:44]:
the rest of your life.

Bob DeMarco [00:42:46]:
What where do you see it, going and, like, in terms of design? Because, I'm interested in the process that arrived at both of these designs, and and how do you, plan on maintaining your your design your your catalog, if you will?

Billy Ford [00:43:05]:
Okay. I'm, man, I'm kinda taking I'm taking a page out of the the Strider or the the Chris Reeve book. You know, I don't wanna be one of those guys that have, like, 50 models out there. I respect those guys. You know, like, it's great. Like, I mean, Jed has a lot of models that he makes. Right? But I would rather have you know, the next one I wanna do, I wanna do a a standard drop point, and then I wanna do a clip point of some sort. But I I want if I can keep it around 4 models for, you know, for a while and and just see how those models go, I mean, more than likely, one of them would die out.

Billy Ford [00:43:41]:
Like, there's there's just won't be as much interest in that knife, and it'll have to it'll have to move on. You know? Mhmm. And that's just the way it is. Right? So I don't I don't strive to be a tops, in a in in a sense of having a, you know, catalog. I'd like to have a few good useful models, that people, you know, don't mind carrying because they're comfortable to carry. And they're I wanna keep them as as an affordable price as possible. The prices can't stay the same as they are right now, but as I get better, you know, that'll come with time. And then the you know, I'm giving myself 9 years, Bob.

Billy Ford [00:44:20]:
By the time I'm 50, I would like to be able to call myself a life maker. You know, like, I mean, I'm making knives right now. Right? But by the time I'm you know, I'm 41 right now. If I can if I can do this for 9 years, hone my skills, you know, I I think it was crazy. Dustin Driver, you know, is is a good friend of mine. And, he had asked me, you know, like, I I showed him the knives, and he was like, man, you, you kinda messed up the grind on that one a little bit. And I was like, well, I didn't do the grinds on these, but I'll, you know, I'll thanks for pointing it out. He's like, who did the grinds? And I was like, Brad Bison did the grinds.

Billy Ford [00:44:56]:
No. I was like, I I got them from Alabama to Memphis. He can do them cheaper than I can, and he can do them better than I can. So it it just makes sense. I can pass those settlements on to the customer. Right? But he was like, do you wanna be a custom mic maker or do you wanna be a handle maker, Billy? And I was like at at first, I was like, well, this this this jackass, you know, is what I was thinking. But I started thinking about that question, Bob. You know? And I'm out of state 6 days a week.

Billy Ford [00:45:24]:
You know, I don't you know, what's wrong with designing a night? Having a OEM do it if they're doing it properly, and then me being able to put the handles on there. You know? It's it's not being a full custom knife maker. That that's that's very much true. But, yeah, in the next 9 years, I would like to hone my skills on on grinding bevels, you know. That that is the most challenging part for me right now, keeping the the bevels even. There's jigs and stuff out there that make it easier, but, like, you know.

Bob DeMarco [00:45:59]:
Oh, it's like anything else. It takes lots of practice. It takes muscle memory and stuff, and that that will that will get there. But you're like a regular person like me and everyone else, and, you're out of state 6 days a week or or whatever the situation happens to be. So you're doing what you can. You're producing knives, which is cool. It's like you're I I keep coming back to other art forms, but it's like you're making a movie. And you're not doing you're not doing the shooting and the editing and the writing and the and the craft services and the transportation.

Bob DeMarco [00:46:30]:
You're finding the the appropriate people

Billy Ford [00:46:32]:
for that, but you're it's your

Bob DeMarco [00:46:34]:
vision, and you're putting it together. That's kind of, that what what I've done a little bit of dabbling with. And and, for me, I'm having other people do it all completely, but it's still my design and and, it's very rewarding. You know?

Billy Ford [00:46:50]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:46:52]:
I'd I'd much rather have my design right now made by Matt Chase than by me.

Billy Ford [00:46:57]:
Absolutely not.

Bob DeMarco [00:46:59]:
But in 9 years, yeah, I think that's a a really, generous, and I don't mean that. That's a generous amount of time to give yourself. Some people does the instinct might be, I'm giving myself 2 years, and after that, you know, not realizing that these kinda things take a long time to get great at.

Billy Ford [00:47:19]:
Absolutely. You know, if if I've only got one day that I can set aside, and obviously, I'm not gonna set aside the whole day. I've got a family. I've got 2 kids and a wife. So I'm gonna get out there for a few hours on my day off. What I do in those few hours? Generally, you know, I I make hay and eyeple, you know. And, it don't take all week to do it, man. It takes about 5 hours.

Billy Ford [00:47:41]:
So I'll get out there a couple hours in the morning, get out there a couple hours in the afternoon, finish everything up. But, or or if I don't finish it up, I'll finish it up next week and start on another one. But that's that's about the pace that I can move at, with my job. You know? Because, you know, like, I'm a I'm a truck driver. I'm I'm out there on the road. I'm not I'm not home as much as I'd like to be, which is something else I think about. They got nothing to do with maths. But as of right now, my situation allows me a specific amount of time to practice and hone my skills, And I figured 9 9 years might not even be enough.

Billy Ford [00:48:18]:
You know? Like, because I'm I'm only you know, if I guess, if you do the math, and I have not done the math. But if you take 4 or 5 hours a week, multiply that by 52 weeks, you got about 250 hours, a year. And that's, you know, by by the time 9 years gets there, that's not even a master at making handles yet. You gotta do something 10000 hours.

Bob DeMarco [00:48:41]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're part of the way there, but but at the same time, it you don't necessarily have to be a master to be No. Effective. And and as as, my wife and I will will tell our daughters from time to time, you know, perfection is the enemy of the good. Don't not do something because it's not gonna be perfect.

Billy Ford [00:49:01]:
That's right.

Bob DeMarco [00:49:02]:
You just keep doing it, and and it'll be better at some point. You know? Yes. So, you mentioned a clip point. What kinda

Billy Ford [00:49:13]:
alright.

Bob DeMarco [00:49:13]:
This is just selfish. I'm just wondering because, I love clip point blades. I love Bowie knives, and, I saw one in particular today that looked a little different, but it was the same, and it's gonna be coming out from tops and it knocked my socks off. So what what are you thinking of in terms of the clip point? What do you love in a clip point?

Billy Ford [00:49:32]:
I kinda like the bowie as well, but I'm I'm I'm not a fan of, like, the the humongous buoys. Like, I mean, don't get me wrong. They're awesome to play with. But I I would kinda like to try to make something along the buoy scale or or buoy's style on a smaller scale, maybe a 10 inch overall, length, which is pretty short for a buoy. Right? But that that's it it would probably have a taller yeah. What's in my head would be like a a taller blade with a nice with with enough real estate to work its way up a a hollow grind to to become nice and thin or whatever. You know? But the the Kershaw knockout, which I know is not a boot, but, you know, I carried the Kershaw knockout, which is an assistant that I and it's got a it's got a clip point with it's just all belly. Right? And I I realized with that knife, I was like, this belly actually comes in handy.

Billy Ford [00:50:30]:
You know, and it's one of the very few clip points that I've ever carried for an extended amount of time. But drop points shine in almost every area. But when when you get that situation where a clip point is actually helping you out, a drop point simply isn't enough. You know? I mean, I carry a drop point almost every day. You know, I got a d 15. That's my favorite carry knife. I've, actually, carrying your favorite knife in 2023. Oh, love that.

Billy Ford [00:51:00]:
Yeah. And, and I love this knife, you know, but I'm paying that today. But that is I guess, something something along the lines of a buoy with a little bit taller of a blade, you know, like, just try to come up with something unique. I was even thinking about putting a recurve on it, but I don't know. Yeah. Those that kinda makes it a little less useful. Right?

Bob DeMarco [00:51:20]:
So my my, question, has something to do with the point and the and the clip because, it seems like clip points a Bowie it's a thin line between Saxe and Bowie, and it's a thin line between Saxe and Wharncliffe. And so so what I'm getting at is some some Boies have the tip lower, and they're more utilitarian, and some of them have more of that upsweep and take more advantage of that that belly. But what I'm hearing is the belly is what you're appreciating.

Billy Ford [00:51:52]:
The belly's what I love. Yeah. Yeah. The belly is what I appreciate about them. But, like, well, the coating's got a tops, and I can't remember the name of it. The lioness elite, I wanna say. And I mean, it's it's got a thrilling point, you know, like, to the point I don't even know if you'd call it a cliff point. Like, it's it's it's coming way up.

Billy Ford [00:52:12]:
You know? But it man, that is a useful camp knife. You know? It's a it's game processing, you know, catch some fish or whatever. It's it's been an excellent night for a lot of different things. But, I don't I I don't think I'd want anything that extreme. But, you know, I'm having some belly. Nothing wrong with having some belly.

Bob DeMarco [00:52:31]:
Yeah. Yeah. I that's what I tell my wife.

Billy Ford [00:52:35]:
Me too.

Bob DeMarco [00:52:37]:
So so 4 4 to 5 models, but what kind of a comp would you like this to become a company, or would would you like this to always be a side hustle?

Billy Ford [00:52:49]:
No. I want it to be a company. Yeah. I I like I wanna build into the company thing, and I probably won't waste much time. I'll just probably have to, like I don't I don't wanna start it too soon because I know I'm gonna be making money, and you can only show losses for a couple of years before I start getting on your butt or whatever. I don't but, like, I'm I wanna start at at a time where I feel like I'm actually gonna be getting serious about it. My knives are gonna be really rare and hard to come by for a little while. I'm not gonna be you know, my my ambition is not to push out several knives a year.

Billy Ford [00:53:19]:
I'm gonna go on spurts of what, you know, of, of making things, you know, like batches, I guess you would say. And then I'm gonna try to work on something else, like a different design or something. That may take time. So, like, if if I if I get 40 or so knives out in a year's a year's time, I'll be happy with that. So like, that's not business to me, you know, especially if you're not making any money off of it. Sure. Yeah. Barely.

Billy Ford [00:53:44]:
You know, if you're barely breaking even, that's bad business. So I I would like to get I would I I feel like I'll know the time when it's right, Bob. I don't know if that's if that's the case, but I I feel like I'll know the time when it's right, when the, my stuff is in higher demand. And, everything well, I don't I haven't made that many, but everything is sold so far. So I don't know, I don't know if it gets any higher demand. I'm in a 100% right now. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Billy Ford [00:54:13]:
But go ahead, man.

Bob DeMarco [00:54:15]:
Well, you mean moving moving units, so to speak.

Billy Ford [00:54:19]:
That's right. That's right. Moving more units.

Bob DeMarco [00:54:21]:
But, one thing, you know, you have an advantage or a sort of an accelerated growth in in your mentorship. So, I mean, that's that's also something to to take in into mind. I I think the way, Jed does it is kind of the way I would like

Billy Ford [00:54:43]:
to do it if I were to be a knife knacker.

Bob DeMarco [00:54:45]:
He he kinda just seems to, make small batches of whatever he feels like. That's right, man. Snapped up. And if they're not snapped up immediately on Instagram, they go to, you know, Arizona Custom Knives. You know, I've seen a lot of his stuff over there.

Billy Ford [00:55:01]:
Yeah. And he's got his own website now too, and, I'm not I can't remember, but I don't know, it's jedhornby.com, but I'm not sure, like, you know, how that website's working out for him. But eventually, when I have some stock, I'd like to get a website as well. But, I I think that does, you know, help maintain things. But there's so many different crazy business things to think about whenever you're you're selling things online, you know. Yeah. 30%. You're only 30%.

Billy Ford [00:55:28]:
Almost off the top because of PayPal fees and, you know, what whatever kind of fees are you know, entail. You know? So it's a it it is it is a different world. Like, you don't have to up those prices. You don't have a you don't have a choice. The prices have to go up.

Bob DeMarco [00:55:46]:
Well, maybe that maybe you just answered this question, but, you know, as we close here, what what have you learned so far, going from knife YouTuber, knife enthusiast to maker? What what's the most valuable lesson you've learned so far?

Billy Ford [00:56:05]:
Don't be so critical, on other people's stuff, man. That's starting kinda become, like cringey to me, actually. Like, you know, now that I've made a few and I know the processes are hard, whenever I'm I'm looking at somebody else's work, you know, I used to. Like, I mean, you can go back. You don't have to go back that far. You know, you you can see me reaming knives, you know, for the processes. And now I understand the processes a little bit better, and I kinda can go back to those same knives and be like, I understand why they did it this way. I don't I may I may still not like it, but I understand why they did it this way.

Billy Ford [00:56:45]:
Yeah. But but really, dude, you know, for the most valuable thing that, you know, I've learned, you you kinda hit the nail on the head when you said I had, like, an advanced, growth with my mentor, and that is true. You know? Like, there's a lot of people, you know, like, I I wouldn't wanna imagine what my first night would've looked like without debt. You know? If I had to, like, go to Harbor Freight and just buy a grinder and Yeah. Buy buy a bunch of crap and try to make a knife out of it, then it would not have been me. I'll make a little order of that Torah. You know, like, he he allowed me to mess up. You know? He allowed me to do things wrong, you know, and he was there to to show me how to do things right.

Billy Ford [00:57:27]:
And so I guess the most valuable thing I've learned, really, is how I've kinda won the lottery when it come I'm not talking about financially. I'm just talking about, like, I've got a world class knife maker that lives 12 miles down the road from me that's willing to help me out. And he's become a great friend, and he quit making knives tomorrow, and I'd still be, like, just popping up in his house and he's selling kittens in Ohio. I'll ask him if he needs any help with it. You know? Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:57:59]:
Smell like kittens and well, that that sounds like a good fallback plan, if this whole knife thing doesn't work out, but I have a feeling, you're gonna do just fine. Billy, thank you so much for joining me on the Knife Junkie podcast. Billy, Ford of Alpek's Alchemy Knives. Where can people catch up with you, find out what's going on with you, and and your content?

Billy Ford [00:58:19]:
Well, we got the YouTube channel, Apex Alchemy Knives. We have Instagram, and I'm looking forward over there. Facebook, I've got that thing locked down, like, Fort Knox. I don't you know, some people said they can't send me a friend request. I'm not really sure what's going on with that. But you you're welcome to add me on Facebook if you if you can find me. But, yeah, in anywhere, man. You know? Call Bob and get my phone number.

Bob DeMarco [00:58:43]:
Cool. Well, I'm not giving them the the phone number to call me, so no. I'm just kidding.

Billy Ford [00:58:47]:
Oh, that's true. That's true.

Bob DeMarco [00:58:49]:
You you can have it any day. Billy, thank you so much for joining me, man. It's been a pleasure.

Billy Ford [00:58:54]:
Man, it was it was great. Thank you very much.

Announcer [00:58:58]:
Do you like the sound of the alphanumeric combinations, m 390, 204 p, and 20 c v, but bristle at 8cr13movandau westash8? You are a knife junkie, probably worse.

Bob DeMarco [00:59:11]:
There he goes, ladies and gentlemen. Billy Ford of Alpex, Apex Alchemy Knives. Do make sure to check them out on their, live. He does it with his wife sometimes. Their live Saturday, livestream and, other videos, especially if you want some lively and sometimes polarizing knife talk. We all love that. And then, keep your eyes peeled. I have a couple of videos of this so far, unboxing, but I got I got a special plan for one of these knives, and I'm gonna do a special kind of video.

Bob DeMarco [00:59:44]:
So keep your eyes peeled for that. Alright. For Jim working his magic behind the switcher, I'm Bob DeMarco saying until next time. Don't take dull for an answer.

Announcer [00:59:53]:
Thanks for listening to the Knife Junkie podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please rate and review at review the podcast.com. For show notes for today's episode, additional resources, and to listen to past episodes, visit our website, the knifejunkie.com. You can also watch our latest videos on YouTube at the knifejunkie.com/youtube. Check out some great knife photos on the knifejunkie.com/instagram, and join our Facebook group at the knifejunkie.com/facebook. And if you have a question or comment, email them to bob@theknifejunkie.com, or call our 247 listener line at 724-466-4487. And you may hear your comment or question answered on an upcoming episode of the Knife Junkie podcast.