Chris and Elliott Williamson of Ferrum Forge Knife Works

00:00:00 - 00:52:15

first and foremost it has to function while 'em and then the challenge with everything is blending be the form and making it look cool and interesting and unique make sure it looks good and pictures whatever it is to blend that into the function 'cause we're very well aware we exist in a very digital world and the likelihood that someone is action going to touch a knife before they purchase it is ever dwindling so it has to look good in a picture if you're on a website so if it doesn't look good in a picture on a website nobody's gonna get that knife with their hand just see how useful it see how nice it is welcome to the knife junkie podcast you're weekly dose of nights news and information about knives and nights collecting here's your host june person involved the nice junkie demarco hello knife john cage and welcome to episode number thirty six of the jonky podcast i'm jumpers and bob the knife junkie demarco welcome welcome to the podcast and bob first we have to begin the show with an apology we a we missed a week that gone it we didn't deed and actually it's mostly in apology tour selves jim i know we were trying to get yeah two straight episodes and a well somewhere along the line i went on vacation then something happens life gets in the way man at least it wasn't a good way not at the horizon in a bad way right but you've already got a lot of great shows a plan for the next several weeks were not gonna give away a a who the guest or anything like that but we've got several interviews already a as they say in the canon several more plan so some a good knife makers and youtubers and the folks in the community coming up so something look forward to maybe maybe a week away willer will do our listeners good who knows yeah lots of good nice conversation coming right right what's on your show today bumped today were speaking was a elliott and chris williamson a brothers who have a who formed a fair and forge a very popular a knife outfit out west and a very interested in talking to them about their sort of multi modal production method of putting knives out they they work in their own shop but their own hands that they have some only allowing him work done and then they have some fullon collaboration with some other companies going on so they're they're covering the the there covering the gamut and it's very interesting to me all right well that's coming up on the ninth junkie podcast wanna remind you that today's episode is brought to you by quickbooks online in quickbooks selfemployed quickbooks self employed is you're year round tax solution it's a must staff for contractors freelancers self employed knife makers perhaps if you go to the knife junkie dot com slash qb thirty that's qb three zero you'll get a free thirty day trial of quickbooks selfemployed again thirty days for free go to the ninth chunky dot com slash q be thirty that interview with the williamson brothers of farren forages coming up next visit the knife junkie on line at the knife junkie dot com first of all chris elliott williamson from parents porridge thank you so much for coming on the podcast so you just came back from blade show a couple of weeks back end a you know we just were recently speaking with the epic snuggle money about what it's like to be a collector of late show i would love to know what it's like from your perspective what's it like being a nice makers and showing up late show well i gotta say are experienced this year was a very unique way different than what most people are gonna experience go this experience in a specially philly are two thousand fifteen experience because we were there in v mass drop now drop a boost so we saw it from a very different perspective than the guys tables or even more people back in the boost in the corners so well you you mentioned you're twenty fifteen experience so what what would that like in twenty fifteen we we got a booth and we brought about a hundred not with us we worked to she's off here in slaved away yeah we got we got so excited this shirt the christopher's wearing it's a fee cordial so tuxedo shirt very classy there messy we also we have foam fingers is well i mean we tried to try to keep it real classy they're so any anything you could do to bring people in now no serious well they are roof was way in the back i got to but but you guys have been kind of a making knives and kind of visible for a number of years at a i guess twenty fifteen is right back a d a at the beginning a what did you sell everything at that show or we absolutely did not suffer for years like we had been a going as voyeurs here's to the california custom show okay and i kind of seeing what that show felt like that just pretty mellow pretty small and i was like all right i i think i'm ready for for this thing 'cause all of my night maker forensic australia could go but it goes dude you could just bringing everything to you could sell everything's gonna be amazing and it was not quite that amazing a i think we had some some bad placements already are holding were very very high is well that's part of it remember we were so excited like so much money in front of a yeah yeah managing expectations in it can be difficult so you're there you're kind of creating a new paradigm of production in that a you're you're making knives and you're accustomed shop you have you're pro series 'em you you are making a lot of knives through drop her a lot of you're designs were being produced through the drop formerly known as mass drop in a it so you're you've got you're hands hands on a very broad spectrum of night making and the knife market how did you get here where where did you start what got you into making knives enormous question i don't think he knows how numbers that question may be early dancer all you okay all right so this all starts with a grandpa in debt that crazy bastard gave me a knife when i was four years old and that's just insane i wasn't the kind of world you wanna give a knife to what was he thinking king but he did it and then it was just knives for my entire life ever since then i've always been the guy with a knife and then in my my late teen years my a my taste denies was a growing my financial situation in so i kinda like curious about like why is this not so much more money in this like what what is going on here what's the difference go before i didn't know anything just you're grandpa gave me this what great all right that's and i'm karen moskow slipped joins on a case by case nice old timers street action in there oh yeah the classy stuff oh yeah and then through the college years ari basically learned how to research search inside a lot of research in that was research into the quote unquote community looking at a you know like high end art night makers and i was like holy shit what we get in the store is is garbage wow compared to what is being done out there in the world so that was fascinating and then as i was also asking the question of why do some of these things cost so much money that got me into some material science and i really liked that law under state and it all kinda culminated when i was taking a class on the iliad and odyssey and there were this reference united states kiki gets real he could get ready how could get there sanders this a similarly in odyssey window disuse dixie a stake into cyclops is i insist shipwrecked reference to the treatment of steel and i'm like that's weird 'cause i thought this was a bronze age were in the bronx why are they talking about the treatment of steel and so that led me on a a super nerdy a literary slash material science research paper they just got completely out of hand and the professor this is for like a of a greek classics clash and the guy was also one of my land professors amuse like what what is wrong with you you are so unbelievably weird but you go down which you're bad self i asked that question everyday is so for those of you who don't remember they odyssey odysseus just stuck in a cave he's gotta get himself out jemma only one nothing nothing only one so he he used a a a giant piece of wood into a spirit and hardens it in a fire fire and then he quences it in the giants basically that well yeah yeah and then like these these exact line is in may the sound is like when you get hot steel iron ore steel depending on translation hot steel into into water because that's what gives you the strength and other what is still in ear at this this is so this is like hundreds of years after where this is supposed to be in the timeline for literature curious turns out there's probably like seven array people in the world they're having a deep academic debate about this subject probably emails all of the gop we're so you're basically a genius don't even know it i wouldn't go that far though when the nice making start so i i was already kind of it dabbling in this is why it was so interesting though is sticking around just like shaping found pieces of metal in my garage and then it became okay i'm gonna build a a forge so i bill like a duck fought for jennifer a break rotor in a shop back and then i started hammering copies of metal do vaguely nice shaped objects all i could describe the mash not nice that's that's the best thing you you is well yeah sorry by six months is sticking around with that go this is a really hard way of making i i feel like there's just way better ways to do this and that's kind of where i got into stock removal and a and then eventually got man i'm really getting tired of like street new leaf springs springs this is stupid american just by the stuff and then i found often supply and then it was getting into steel and then a guy soup ricky he would steal a man is just starting to evolve in doing stuff on the weekends and whenever that free time man in two thousand twelve i made my first folder and that was the beginning of each so is there hey a part of the process of making a folder that obviously it captured you in a different way then attempting to forge or forging we what is it about that process that you guys find so capturing what is it that is more appealing to you then hitting stuff with a hammer 'cause i know that it's one of you're you're loves in this world so chris and i are dad's side of the family there 'em what's the right word sure what they are there a pre analytical very logic based people a there's a couple of engineers in the family you know retentive yeah well that's a nice way to put to i think 'em detail oriented that's the detail oriented yeah yeah we're gonna detail or like a part time as a professional athlete professional baseball in before he got drafted into a into the padres minor league system you will see acts of getting a degree in engineering oh we have an actual aerospace engineer uncle who does things you can't talk about 'em and then like on the other side of the family of people in aerospace you're in san diego so there's just aerospace and engineering just swirling about us all the time so there's just a little something that i really enjoy about making something that's mechanical and then being able to do that by hand is what's crazy will take the first time i made a folder that actually works because there were three well so the first one that actually work does like oh gosh it must have felt like magic yes you were very excited and now i get the pleasure of getting to see those kinds of things today suddenly all first stop and go oh wow come a long way real long way so are you are you both this is gonna be an awkward question or or or let me just let me just ask you this way in in which direction to you are you're skills divided are you both equally good at at a everything or do you have you strengths and i mean obviously you work together you're brothers you collaborate you're a kind of a part of this a tip of the spear that's turning knife making into a super collaborative process which i can relate to confirm production and everything you know everything of value comes from a you know adding other people's perspectives at least in what i do some i'm kinda seeing what you're what you're doing we don't think you're wrong there at all we've definitely seen some wonderful results from from getting people together in what do you think getting what do you think the writers clearly an idiot so you don't get to talk no that's not how it goes nowhere inclusive and i only say that she like two times hey shut up you stuck his foot so as similar is we are i think we do have pretty different personality types 'em i'm definitely be serious one 'em if you've ever seen the movie happy gilmore the scenes with bleach you know where he shakes his head this approvingly that's basically my job putting entire business yeah definitely my conscience to like you were pretty much everything this one year so few people actually listen to in this world near the order to is chaos yeah yeah sorry but i love you bro need to most well back in the beginning when i first roped him into this stuff like it was just him coming over on the weekends helped me do things in the garage and and one of the things i like about him is that he's the closest thing i have in this world to quote so you know what i haven't columbia okay they won't let me say i knew he was gonna have like a lot of the things that i i possessed dinner or in each which he does and then he's got this whole other packaged and then i just don't have namely the ability to say no to ideas end 'em i would say the u r e a much more cognizant august into fiscal matters and i am that's a really great way of doing it well so tell us a little bit about you're process a i don't know do you have a typical process kind of car it's slightly more to so in terms be a you know the separation of duties within the company a elite is my design guy he is from day one in the garage with drawn stuff out on a piece of metal sharpie cutting out with the angle grinder shaping everything down students yes 'em some rough times he's he's definitely evolved over the years from drawing out stuff on graph paper and just kinda working it out as he went to tutti basic cat line drawings we were using once we start doing water jet and using other machine chops and now he's into full three d that there was a whole year will be accident scene here the ones that to we just have minnesota pretend to be a machinist but that stop 'cause we want we need you to be a designer 'em so elliott spends a lot of time now sitting at a computer and just clicking away insult works and coming up stuff sometimes and then i do this i do this thing right when when i think of design 'cause it has to go through some proofing by at first so it's like hey i've got an idea for some shapes and then shapes become three dimensional object then three dimensional object become engineer components it's an engineer components if they look weird jimmy i go maybe this is not one i showed her christopher one the one that i like i go all right chris check this one out and then he'll usually go ducks retarded what do you thinking and then i mean it do you i'm sorry to interrupt you is they're creating a back and forth the other than that's retarded like where where you say oh maybe you should attitude or perhaps you make me sound like such a key phrases things really nicely now he he instead of going like that's something should be here he goes can there be something here and i go yes there can be something here what do you think should go there were i think what we've learned is this part here that's an interesting looking future i bet that took a while to render but doesn't really need to be there okay maybe right crush so would you call yourselves both engineers are you both on the engineering side elliott you do a lot of the designer all of the design and chris it seems like you do a lot of implementation i don't mean like it here but i'm just trying to figure out this process so and then once that happens had where do you go from there that is that is the fifty million dollar question where's go from there so i try to a steal away hours in the day to design stuff is much as i possibly can because there is a process to the whole thing and then it becomes eight selection process at least for me and i usually try include him on this and they say one of the things that presenting minutes here's this i think this is going to work well for x either that is he from forest knife works mean california's designed for that izzy pro series designed for we should throw this off to in the air force designed category so that could go to drop good we knife it could go to a bunch of other different companies the msp for design work at this point in so it's part of trying to control troll a little bit of what we get out there in the market to make sure that we wouldn't give companies they come to us for december wanna make sure that they're getting a design that is going to be marketable and then they're going to see a return on because i to the business owner and there's nothing worse than making it designed but nobody buys and so we start from framework of we wanna we wanna design an make knives and people want to own so if you'd never fits that criteria or if it's like two out there like chew up on guard images got it's cool but really is gonna buy this besides couple of are super fans so what a in the design process what inspires you a is it a is it a lot of how it's gonna be used is it in the first thing you have a definitely design language is so great question that's a tremendous quite shocking about this all the time extra so we always start from the point of utility right a knife is a tool it has to be able to do his job scott doing shop scott come out of the pocket gotta look at open used at quarterback all safely a so first and foremost it has to function well 'em and then the challenge with everything is blending thee form arm and making it look cool and interesting and unique make sure it looks good and pictures whatever it is a blend that into the function 'cause we're very well aware we exist in a very digital world and the likelihood that someone is going to touch a knife before they purchase it is ever dwindling so it has to look good in the picture on a website so if it doesn't look good in the picture on a website nobody's gonna get that knife in their hand just see how useful it see how nice it so it's this is balanced now to it has to be struck at least my has to be struck where not only does it have to be functional and useful in all of this stuff has to be the reaction the field at sound weird anomaly so fusing you're hand but it also has to look good and sometimes that can be a challenge because sometimes they're things feel great but just look very silly or vice versa there things look amazing but when he put when you're hand this just like out why would someone do this in some of the hand designed this yeah exactly so that's interesting at v aesthetic i i have never heard anyone say i haven't heard anyone say that yeah i mean i've i've heard people say yes i designed with this that x first in mind or i decided as a tool and a strictly a buddy idea of it being design aesthetically pleasing so that it looks good on a website it's of course i i never thought of it that way but yeah the 'cause that's exactly how i how is it going to get somewhere and if you don't look at it and go look summers in your knives at the fair and forge knives across the board look look comfy i have to be totally honest i don't have any of them 'em i i am really wanting the more decks type yes a normal beautiful looking nice and a i'm a sucker for in curious about the push button thing yes yeah just put it right through the yeah yeah but it might take it you you really should you should treat yourself because it's fantastic so what is your what is your favorite of a volley design just came in is a hard question like his babies right let's see i'm worried that the jets are the crux of the dow the falcon the ford is the malice and others hutler has been my ex and i love the dow is so cool looking okay ugly ugly a drop formerly mashups designs the dow is actually my favorite i when i designed di di fuck emma dal simultaneously because i was asked to do something that had that cleave relooking shape to it and i'm like well if i'm gonna do that it's gotta be useful i hate cleaver looking knives they don't have a nice point to them i want this to still be funding and ultimately useful idiots use an asteroid design that wanna know what happens if i just take this the thing off the top there oh oh hell oh what a lovely looking cheap one clip kind of thing well let's do that one too so it it became my favorite i actually do care that one quite a bit when i don't have to have other prototypes in my pocket so you all do oh is a you guys always carrying a some fareham forge a design door produced nice just to kind of make sure it's up to snuff in that kind of thing like we actually just got a box of prototypes in today and so it's gonna be nothing but production pockets through at least the next two weeks okay so if you were carrying your own knives who's knives a would you be gearing oh that's okay lately they literally wearing her here where you're mentor is who you're harris sure i can give you some names of people that have influenced me in positive ways not to be exclusive on people then i'm friends with a but there's some guys that have a un ascetic but i always really appreciated appreciate it and there's something that i think are are underrepresented today dave mosier is a is a knife maker which i always just really appreciate it what he does critically this group we got a bunch of these we like different things a fan i really do like what tosh hebrew good does lauch i mean this is why were friends would appreciate is a static plus she's very different seasons kinetic first function so there there's some like unknown unknown people that i follow on instagram did did make a couple of designs did i just reviewed really dig in there like one guy is french i can't even pronounce what his his instagram handle is anna like he he just does this really simple elegant looking stuff but i'm sure some simple is good and then there's some things like course cutlery i appreciate for rick while those overall design capabilities and then his nephew yeah his nephew rudy law offer his car wreck like rudy is a giant piece of inspiration for my artistic carver type stuff did you say work yes of hard work 'em i've liked fabio a coma for a long time ever since i discovered him he also does some car titanium work which she used quite masterful at got those those would be the makers that really trip my trigger sound like sometimes you know kenyan in i have owned a lot of kenyan designed knives in my life i mean it's hard did not mention him in now that i know him like interesting cat oh shit that's right rj martin i always forget about him also great guy but now that i finally met he he's he's a fantastic person nizer disgustingly beautiful in like in the early days like when i was setting up how internals of a knife or gonna work like one of the people that i looked at was rj because his his stuff always he's flips gorgeous way yeah i'm a if you just really nails the emails me engineering stuff every time okay i think i think i've done it i think well i mean he he he's a he's in inspiration 'cause it's they're they're like i said they're incredibly beautiful knives and don't have a stag handled or anything but they look beautiful but also to know how how adept you know engineering is well after dozer my my modern makers like there's there's people at a maybe i don't even think that's anymore did like art makers like one of the first you'll turn my head was jim schmidt you know that i believe gyms debt now pretty sure in like two there were folders are folders chapin back in the day and charlie crap like that's credible so you've been a fulltime knife making outfits a not doing any other day jabber whatever since twenty twelve years though is that right yeah in like summertime of twenty twelve right about this time actually back in twenty twelve i've been solid years so how have you seen the knife world changed since you entered in a freshman a lot a lot a lot i would say i mean if it feels seachange level a lot we even begin with this big crush huge crush as a guy who kind of started his folder career on you i mean there's there's a couple of us would be like myself a michael gathered gecko knives a jump ball belt talk knives we'd like we were really sort of people they were doing may furry in making videos about it and putting it on you do end up the three of us her friends at this point because personal too many people never actually doing that and since then a i i think we've we've only done like one real platform change and that was to to get on instagram as they advise me exactly jeff bazo who is like you're gonna lose ground jews 'perfect frenetic makers 'cause then you could just like ticket pitcher with their phone when you're in the middle of stuff the posted boom it's cool nothing accidents pretty reasonable idea is not wrong but since more and more people now have eight miniature computer in their pocket more and more people now good just see how not production companies function so you could see a guy in his garage doing this stuff and things that make a knife and then you can follow silly people people like us and then you could see how we do it at a slightly higher level in a we've you try to be as transparent as possible so people like no like when we say hey this is made it on machine shop it's a mile down the road it really is made it through she smiled on road used like sub i think we've had guest appearances things from like they had machinist their big swings by like oh hey why since we were filming this video look there's damaging it shocked me is a but that a the opening got a pulling back the curtain a little bit has expanded the kind the interest level in knives as well as sort of this might be tough to put into words turned it from some sort of like closeted i love my knives and guns and i'm gonna go sharpen them in the basement to hey look at this thing that a person made an isn't incredible piece of art so i says you're nearing slash craftsmanship look at this thing right dish short when markets were luxurious i dunno it's also inherently appealing as a human being a knives you know it it it it does not take long to get people warmed up to to a beautiful night you pull out of skanky looking kitchen knife and threatened someone within of course they'll have a reaction you pull out of fareham forge you know some beautiful beautifully engineered beautifully designed and produced knife they're gonna wait wait a sec what's that what's that's a and i you know i mean people seriously it's not the one like my grandpa used a kerry right if that is the whole night story off of grand but some it's so funny how many nice story start start off the ground oh i have grandchildren some day and i hope they start some stories bless the grandpa's they give knives to their children absolutely it's a wonderful thing there's any grandpa's out there listening give her grandchildren knives yet teach them how to use it responsibly but given that absolutely i i think that's a tradition that will that will never ever ago we talked about your work with a drop but i wanna talk about the more dax in particular because you worked at pro tech who i have i have a couple of their knives and i'm a big fan of their automatic knives even though i can't carry a dumb where i lift us to us positively ridiculous yeah no except you can't carry the real real small ones right yes yes we we like the real smart once i'm i'm pushing unprotected maybe they should let me just on some more california's legal autos can we can we please give me the stu how i wasn't working with them there right up the street basically right like an hour and a half away from us so i had and their ceo dave wattenberg he'd be like since two thousand fourteen so none of her solid five years end he was one of the first people that i went up to the show and i was like hey i'm so and so i make knives so my garage her you know i have starting a little company and he couldn't welcome in really nice an are also own protests guys in my make you some that i didn't even realize where project knives until years down the road when i gain dave's office office going why don't you guys make that night when we did that in like a like two thousand six two thousand drivers something i looked it up and like four months ago you know who's early into those if i was like nineteen ninety eight and i think you so that came out in ninety eight 'cause i'm pretty sure i had one of those when i was in high school i'm i'm almost positive i'm like did you do have a whole sudden he's like yeah yeah that was ninety eight and i'm like i had one of those i'm like damn i've been a fan of yours kway back up but like every time i talk today you would always ask me like what's in your pocket what do you what do you guys working on and then i wish or whatever i in my pocket in two thousand fifteen one of that would be more that he went wow that's a really nice design elliott i liked that a lot and i said okay cool it's your it's your design i'm not gonna make it again in so how however gets made again it'll be you doing it anyway all right good deal so that lives in two thousand fifteen plus for now i recognize the the the pro tech makes pro technology in they are very efficient in the way they make knocks a it's it's very very cool to see how efficient they become an and they they have their lane and they stay in it in so there's some what's what's the right word there resistant to change a little bit 'em so it just so happens in two thousand seventeen or eighteen seventy whereas california's awesome show and they had just come out with see cambria button lock flipper in baton flippers have a couple of of challenges overcome to make them feel like a frame jam that snappy potential and in this one did i was already starting to think about and i remember i had all these ideas i'm gonna reengineer the government's gonna have all these little catches on is gonna be the space to do this thing just way too crazy so i mean dave i think you've got i think you've solved it in a this is a this is one of the snappy as button lock slippers ever touched congratulations and i said what yes we did the more dax as a button lot slipper and then i reach behind me and grabbed art project manager from africa was whipping up in one yes we make mash properties that perhaps you go hey you're talking and that so it was just it was a an interesting design process because they don't actually use cat all of their stuff it's done in a camp system and so i got to meet their engineer their head engine are what's camp camp computer aided manufacturing so let's see actual computer program the generations of chico goes into she so they usually have eight eight a three d design component in them because you have to look at it zine and then go how is this get made by the machine and it usually good camps will give you some idea of here's detour mapping news for this human optimize so they they run a system called master camp which is a pretty expensive program actually an so that's that's the only way we could really look at each other's work so i would send them aid fully realized through de render and then i would get back three eighty buyer drawings no solid bodies whatsoever i have to show their stuffed a mash up like the changes that have been made for engineering burst and so then i had to like completely i had to go in it like measure every single line in create a rerun during render it so i could show bashar well this is what we're doing on shark keeping your skills sharp very very much so i have a lot of notes in my in my notebook of of all the different measurements and take two to three render that thing is is true to what they were going to manufacture as possible and so there is a an interesting process but through that you know i'm emailing back and forth with this guy maybe one day is like a like like thank you i like you too and then we went and visited and we've been trying to go visit messer on the show for for years and we finally did it in a gary desk looks exactly like mine is just full of dolphin thinks should tools in parts of knives hardware calipers and it's like i might yeah i feel that gary that's exactly what my desk this looks like there's a shit show he's like yeah well you know well on my mind but we do know is there any things at once we go i understand it so that it seemed as if i were supposed to be there like taking pictures and you know doing stuff you know for the marketing team there drop an it really i just end up kicking out with an engineer for for most of the time not quite elliott elliott and i'm in his office and you shouldn't be somebody who's crazy to shrink you do look who's out on the ice texture do how long i think you do is like too long way way too long wasted so many days doing that my tech show thanks matt we should we should do you wish to work together at my eye greek we should so hopefully that will come true i would really like to do more with brought stretch i i it seems a at least from from the axe a like a natural fit i mean the design and then in like the way it looks in the way it seems to function with the button lock seems to be just right on we've talked about a at how social media has changed the knife world let me ask you this a i just got my very first custom knife a couple of weeks ago and i i went to the shop of the the man who made it for me and it's awesome and i love it attention to detail mercantile awesome a gentleman's assassin nice if if you will from from you're perspective i mean you're case since since you're dealing with production on many different levels from making them with their own hands to having the produced in designed at various manufacturers custom quality versus this insane high quality production like we knives like react and reich and those kind of companies how do they compare out is custom quality compared to this incredible production quality worse so i'll tell you i'll answer this question of so the thing that a made me email we knife co was one of our customers who has a great deal of are knives the spanning all price ranges we have dives in brought me we six oh one so elliott he's left handed to me pussy clip on me left inside from is it yeah sure i'm gonna have to drill top some holes and stop the show i get on the side of my partner i'm looking at it and i'm going oh oh hello oh my this is incredibly well jong un measuring things 'cause i freak like that measuring stuck on oh oh jeez oh wow this this company he has his figure some things out there doing some stuff is really really nice like they have attention to surface finish on the inside of ice wow you don't see that you are coming out of the far east end that precipitated me sending them a dm on instagram social social media and 'em because i knew that they follow me on instagram and then they're like oh yeah we totally do oh yeah let's talk are you see what's up in your place and then i got a chance to meet their ceo end she looks at a i d exact same way that i do like all up in its inside just way way up close and i went now i see fellow knife nerd excellent just so happens have a lot of employees ramada machinery so in the time we've been working with weeknight sick i have to say that they are down with the details just as much as we are i mean they they really are they really nice there really are an so so you get what you ask for so the more detailed you could be injure request an end say no no do this like it is and render an no no this is color at that's this crew did i want and i want to like this and that's what i want so the more specific to you could be the better overall product ended up becoming in we go through rounds approval typing before we ever say yes to production in that carried over as well when we were doing stuff with a drop for they notice master on a it was no not just typing and then will look at blood into render yeah renders it renders real is real prototype it send it over in so we go through rounds of prototype even before we were everybody was satisfied shopping and we we do that to this day like we just got a box full of prototype stuff that yeah and some things are great some things need improvement in so in the years that i've been working which way it's been about creating be a solving the language barrier and then creating they languish within the way the we worked together so that they know when i say some off the wall thing like i needed to be rounder you need to develop a shorthand they go oh you mean you need this fillets to be yeah yeah that's what i did so well i don't think they're they have they've to engineers worked there are gonna make these guys famous 'em their name calvin in odin oh yes yes they have a north got a it could be part of the reason for this excess man you don't know if he has one ira not i i look forward to meeting this person in person a but like so they don't really speak english but we definitely speak the language of cat in design and what is actually possible in manufacturing so one of the other keys did i have to making sure they were getting the best quality product that we can out of announcers manufacturer is knowing what's possible and what's not in not asking him to do something that is just over the top in it has to be an operation so nobody's gonna really love doing that job just like i would look at chuck so i never asked me to do something i wouldn't do myself and especially in production i should say because we have done a clause i production level stuff here you know where we do a two hundred piece ron and so there's not a lot of room to have immense amounts of time in products because it has to go through which prophecies in order for it to eventually become a full complete nice ninety well everything we make you're always an assignment it it's it's like okay how do we not spend an hour on each parsh right well that's i think i think you're touching on it right there a d 'em to me the difference is intangible it's a you you might get a this sick precision quality from we knives for instance but the time that you spend even if you're only spending a little less than an hour per part or whatever you're saying you know the the the time that has is that knife is spending and you're hand is this is gonna sound flaky were but it's you're you're kind of a viewing a little bit of yourself in there a you know it's like it's like a painting as opposed to reproduction monet hey you know this is also one of the reasons why we insist on quality ushering each nine the goes out the door which i can't do that with the mash up stuff but all the pro serious stuff we collectively handle each freaking knife and nausea the the pro series a tell me what that is exactly that was us going wow we have these great relationships which especially at night and we should really make sure there were capitalizing on art capabilities interact with them it was so much simpler for me it was wait a minute there's good quality we could offer customers eight silly very premium high quality products at half the cost yeah so it was just one of these things like that's what we always wanna do kind of note a dream and my offer offer people the product that we can at the lowest cost that we can so everything really came together in the the proper way in at the right time for us the launch our own production series the pro series one of the things we liked about we knife in specific was they were they were actively trying to eliminate t the notion that if it comes from china it must be it must be terrible quality they've done a happy ending job the reality is is china will make what you tell them to make so we've demanded lowest cost goods from them for so long that that's just what they got used to make an a part of like joe the ceo rena part of his story is he is he is doing that kind of thing any went wait a minute like when i go to these live shows i'm seeing these products that are just amazing and i know we can make them why don't we just try making and see what happens i mean they're gonna be more expensive in sixty dollars but why don't we try and do it see what we can do and there were a couple of other people they were doing the exact same time david dang over at a reaction the guys right and i was thinking same thing like wow we have all of this capability like we make we literally make parts dinner in outer space why can't we make a high quality or two so and then do it in such a way where it's her own desires unique designs so were not ripping off people because they're and they're actually very aware of that that has happened so much that in you know kind of there's they're still teaching there in the market from from from that era and they're still companies that are doing it i mean at this point i get reached out to by companies of all sorts overseas ended the first thing i do is go to the website and see what do they offering do they have quote shit on their sorry i can't wear sorry guys know well okay so before we let me ask you guys you're brothers you must have some stories funny ridiculous inspiring nights story will firing all right yeah i guess not quite a night but we did have an incident incident with they samurai sword in a golf ball i like it already yeah it's real special so this this is when i was in high school 'em so not real bright a not real good at making decisions and somebody gave you a like a decorative you know caetano thing that had this giant rash kober ahead paul still have the brassica rational have more deadly does it to so i was in the backyard has a chip in golf balls into a bucket or attempting to an l e comes in the store and he's like dude i sharpened it hit the golf ball at me i'm gonna cut in half so much high school dumb ass me goes yeah this is gonna be great what could go wrong will go wrong all right in my defense i had there is a wall but i was ready to dive in i prepared a little bit but to really sure why not so i hit a couple apple adam swinging amiss a baseball is are dead sport elliot's new not 'em he connected with one in a dispute over the fence i let me hit another one you got it stayed in the yard and it didn't quite cut all the way through all the way through so he was like all right on on come on it now forty two in a row let's do this for those listening elliott has never been a small fella a at that point in time six five to fifty obviously well in my twenties in well into college athletics so i was not small i would have been a two sixty plus you have to go through a two eighty yeah so he puts it being he has into the swing bomb oh yeah so the ball not so much but a the blade of the sword come out of the handle and just start helicopter into they are oh in like fortunately it kind of went out away from me a sore both standing there watching the slave flies through there so i ask you something had gone wrong terribly wrong wendy kober head fell to the ground in front of me and i that's oh the kids gone the blade is no oh it's okay we didn't hit any house is there anything it just hit the back fence a nobody was harmed during this incident she then i got a solid a like a hundred yards of travel out of that i well one further in the boy real good real farther let me go so that was a really special brother moment and i think that was one of the things that set the tone from each be serious more responsible brother you're gonna have to expect that when you when you buy a sam rice or a sub par sam rice or but we didn't know at the time i love it i love it because who among us didn't have one of those or d m a the one i had was d a a a highlander who is the same thing and had a ridiculously long help it with the dragging on in never winked at my brother but a man i throw well guys i i wanna thank you for coming on the the nice jesse podcast i think what you're doing is really interesting you're like truly diversified knife outfit a you know from from the stuff that that that everyone can afford to the stuff that you're making by hand it's really impressive and i'm glad you were able to come on the show thanks very much guys it's been around and there's more to come excellent well we've got a lot more end when i get the more tax which i will i will bragging carry it around and yes you absolutely should get it yes russia it's breathtaking andy already guys take care thank you thank you you're listening to the night jokey podcast if you've got questions or comments call the twenty four seven nights junkie listener line seven two four four six six four four eight seven welcome back to the knife junkie podcast a man i'm telling you buy when an interview the brothers they're fair and forge a you've got brothers you know how it is so that kind of playing off each other kind of thing yeah yeah for sure they they are a tour to force and i do have a brother and i was i was wondering the whole time we were talking what would it be like if i were sitting here talking to someone and it would probably look abouts right you know there's a lot of shorthand a lot inside jokes and a lot of history there but right i gotta say talking to them really got me excited because they're they're kind of a a what do you wanna say blazing their own trail you know they're doing they're doing things that have been done before in a way that have never been done before they're bringing together all these different a production modes and well just to make it about me for a second being an artist enough drunk you bust joe hey being an artist a my whole life but also being someone someone who is always cycling through interests i i could really relate to how they've kind of spread themselves out and allow them to keep knife making a this exciting activity if they get tired of making knives in their shop well they can they can shift their work to design work for a for their midtech line and if they get tired of that well they call a pro tech or or drop in and say hey let's let's do another collaboration so they they've built in options to their career it i think it's very interesting interesting yeah a lot of a not not i don't wanna say i guess first worthy came to mind was pigeonholed but that's not the right word but it's not just solely one niche they've got a several areas they can spread out right right exactly i'm no master investor a master investor but they do say the diversified and he's getting you in that yeah well that's gonna be a the what do they call the ramp on another episode of the podcast but i do wanna remind our listeners that a a bob does eight newsletter almost every week we tried to get it out on mondays are maybe tuesday start the week off with some nights junkie news and information so if you wanna get on the knife junkie a newsletter list just go to the ninth junkie dot com slash subscribe and you can enter your email address and i will send you the newsletter we promise we won't spammy with any other kind of stuff they knife jackie newsletter knife junkie dot com slash subscribe bob anything to finish up the show with a well i know i buried this one in the ground to but i hope to have that a fair and forge slash drop slash pro tech more tax in my pocket as soon as the next round comes out and i'll i'll let everyone know and you hear me clicking it and probably have to do video on it to their thanks everybody for listening thanks for listening to the ninth junkie podcast if you enjoyed the show please rate and review review the podcast dot com for show notes for today's episode additional resources and listen to past episodes visit our website nights junkie dot com you can