Automated Transcript
Colin Masonpierre, CM Knife Designs (& Divo Knives)
The Knife Junkie Podcast (Episode 332)

00:05
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast.
Your weekly dose of knife news and information about knives and knife collecting.
Here's your host Bob the knife junkie, DeMarco.
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast.
I'm Bob DeMarco.
On this edition of the show, I'm speaking with Colin Masonpierre of CM Knife designs and Devo Knives under the CM Knife Designs banner, Colin has licensed his work to the likes of Kubey Knives and two Sun Knives, and recently Colin joined forces with Kevin Johnson.
You know him as.

00:39
Kev of Lefty EDC to form Devo Knives.
Now I got the chance to check out their debut knife the stout.
A super steel sheep's Cliff blade and an awesome titanium bolster lock handle that that cut as well as it looked well, the the blade cut as well as it looked beautiful.
Beautiful knife.
And the future looks bright.
For Devo, I can say that without reservation because right here in my hot little hands I have one of their upcoming knives.
This release is a prototype right here, but it will be coming out.

01:10
Well, we'll find out all about that, but it's the growler and it's sweet.
So I'm really looking forward to watching this company grow.
We'll meet Colin.
We'll talk all about his work.
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02:09
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Colin, welcome to Knife Junkie podcast.
Sir Bob how are you?
I'm doing great, it's good to have you.
I just want to say congratulations on Devon knives and the forming of that very exciting company and the exciting work you're putting out.
Like I said I had the stout.

02:32
I have this in my hands and I checked out a couple of others at your booth at Blade show.
So congratulations on your success.
Appreciate it, it's it's my pleasure, believe me.
But before we get this to.
Two Divo I wanna talk about CM knife designs and you know I discovered a a little trove of knives that you've worked on and had produced, and they're impressive.
And I know that they're well liked, especially one in particular.
But tell me how you got started in this and and how how knives.

03:12
I mean, I've been a collector of knives for as long as I can remember.
Since I was a kid, I probably have knives around here that are 30 something years old.
And you know of course.
Throughout my childhood and and whatever I would sketch knives here and there.
And, you know, play around with designs.
And it wasn't until a couple of years ago that I. Thought I would try my hand at really.
Designing one and seeing what it took to get one in production and.

03:48
So I did I I designed what what was.
This one right here, which I has been in the works for now.
A couple of years which we'll talk about more later, but I designed it and shopped it around a little bit.
I I emailed some some folks that I admired in the community.
Got their feedback on it and.
Shop that around and it was really sort of sort of that simple and I got shot down a few times and.
You know best Tech ended up picking it up and they're they have been.

04:26
They've been wonderful and ever since then it's been.
That's all the the confidence boost I needed, and I've been, you know, designing ever since.
Best techno I've see, I I didn't even mention that in my intro and it's funny because they're one of my absolute favorites.
I love best tech, they they can produce such a wide range of things.
I I noticed that that's a lock back and that's interesting and different these days.
Yeah, that was sort of the idea.
You know, I'm sure we're all aware it's of flooded field of frame locks and liner locks and and whatever.

05:04
And and I love back locks I I. Have for a long time and you know there seems to only be a couple of places where you can get them either it's a spider Co or a A. You know cold steel, which is essentially locked back and.
You know, I wanted to try something a little different and it worked and and bestech did a really good job with it.
I'm really I'm really happy without turned out and the first.
I mean I held it for the first time when I when I met you at Blade Show.
A few weeks ago and wow.
That was, I mean, that was two years after I submitted the design to them.
Let's see it.

05:50
I mean, we're talking about it.
Let's.
So.
Here it is.
There's going to be at least this version and A and a micarta version.
Sorry, my lighting is kind of bad.
Oh no, no, it looked.

06:07
It looked good up close like that.
This has a a blue pivot collar.
The I I think the micarta one did not have a blue pivot collar and the micarta one had more of a kind of be blasted blade.
But anyways it's a. It's a lockback.
It's on bearings.
The the sort of party trick of this knife and and this was just the night, you know.
I was very I I still am.

06:32
I still consider myself very new to this, but.
When I designed it, you know the idea was like I really wanted a smooth lock back and.
You know, without this long break in period that you typically have to have.
So I designed it with this little.
Ceramic.
Obviously you can't see it, but there's a little ceramic ball bearing on the inside of this lock face here that.
Interfaces with the blade Tang.

07:01
When you when you open and close it and you may be able to see there's sort of a little track being.
Yeah, you can see that being born there.
And I sent this file the best tech in this design.
The best tech you know, with the caveat that I'm not an engineer.
This is just thought, you know, maybe maybe less sort of surface contact on a lockback would would create a smoother knife and.
And they they ran with it, and they did it and.
I'm really happy with how it turned out.

07:37
I mean, it flicks up in really nicely.
It's really sort of drops.
It's on bearings, of course, so it's really kind of the action on.
It's great.
And it's A and it's I'm going to interrupt you here because I'm excited.
It's a cool night it's a mid back lock which which makes it one hand friendly and I love the idea that you reduce the surface area you know touching the the rounded part of the Tang while it opens and and and then you put bearings and.
And that's a very unique thing to hear of bearings on a on a lock back.

08:12
Yeah you don't see it that often.
There are a few I think the.
Spyderco what's it called spy opera?
They're line still out how has that?
And I think some of the Italian lockbacks have bearings but.
You don't get the.
You know you get this really sort of.

08:33
Positive like UM thing with the thumb studs that you don't get with the with the spider holes.
I mean you can flip those you know middle finger flick those become middle middle, middle finger.
Flick these as well.
It just feels like nothing.
I've never nothing I've ever owned to be honest.
It's a really unique feeling knife.
It almost you know, the the ball bearing almost functions as a detent in a way you know.

09:01
You kind of open it to this to this point and you hit this shelf.
And if you know you can just kind of pop it open, pass that shelf and it really.
Ohh I see what you mean.
It gets around that corner and getting around that corner really shoots it out there.
So this is you better be.
I don't want to plan any.
Any ideas anyone brains, but you better be careful about this.

09:24
You better.
I mean it sounds it sounds like a maybe not.
I don't know.
Disruptive in the in the Lockback world.
Anyway, you know and we'll see I I talked to, I was chatting with Justin Lundquist who is one of one of the designers that I've admired for a long time.
And he's one of the guys that I emailed this.
Too early on.

09:47
And I, you know, got his feedback on it and he was very, very positive.
And you know, encouraging and everything.
And I ran into him at Blade show and that was this past blade show and it was the first time I'd ever met him face to face.
And I kind of chased him down.
And showed him the knife that he had given me some feedback on and he mentioned that that it's it's.
It's something that maybe worth like.
It's it's.

10:13
I'm not going to go through the you know, pain of like patenting it or anything.
I don't think it's I don't think it's worth that, but maybe naming it something or calling it, you know a you know, giving it some sort of.
You know identifiable name and I'm not going to like.
I'm not looking to charge people to use this or anything like that, but just so I you know it's a it is a new thing that I haven't seen before and.
It worked out surprisingly well.
It was really sort of a A a guess.
You know it.

10:48
In a way, it's it.
It's giving the lock back the umnumzaan treatment or the OR the you know what I'm saying with the.
Because that knife also a lot of the smoothness in that knife relies on that corner mounted ceramic ball.
Yeah totally.
It's I mean that was kind of the idea I've.
I've never handled a Sam, but I've handled a inkosi, which I think is the same same sort of thing where you know the the ball is kind of on the corner of the lock face and.
Serves as the.

11:23
Detent ball slash.
Yeah, what it rides on and.
Yeah, so that was the idea and I think it's I mean so far it seems to have worked out well.
You know, I think it's one of those kind of things that you know.
I have had this for a few weeks and I've been traveling for most of that time, so I haven't really had to had a chance to sit down and fidget with it and break it in and see how it you know how this actually works, but it feels it feels really nice and it's a really unique unique feeling knife.
So is this scheduled for release or is this still in the development phase?
As far as I know, this is scheduled for release I think.

12:13
I mean Vestec told me originally that it was going to be this month and where it's at 29,000. I don't know if that's going to happen, but.
You know, I'm I'm waiting on their response to see when exactly it's going to be released.
But as far from what I understand this is.
This is the production you know ready knife.
They just got two of them ready for Blade show.
I think the other one, the micarta one, is going to start circulating around among some reviewers pretty soon, but I'm pretty sure this is.
This is how it's going to be and.

12:49
It should be.
You know, the next few weeks.
It's exciting.
It's in the offing.
It's you.
Don't know the exact date, but oh, that's awesome alright.
OK, so so your first knife design is now starting to come to fruition, but in the meantime, there's been a bunch of others.

13:09
Yeah I have.
Like I said, you know, after the sort of.
You know edification I needed from from best tech that that this could actually happen.
I just started, you know, cranking designs out and seeing and seeing who would.
Who would pick them up and and how this whole thing worked.
So the.
Tucson actually has been pretty great.

13:36
This was the.
This was actually the first knife.
That I had hit the market.
And this is the 319 I believe.
I was just watching Jared and Eve rave about that knife in in his, you know best.
I think best utility knives that's that's right.
I got that video too.

13:58
That was that was very nice.
Yeah, I think that was and this was the knife that.
This is sort of one of the reasons why Kevin and I were introduced.
I think he he.
This was the first knife of mine that came across his desk and I think he ended up selling his to to Jared.
But yeah, I mean this has been a pretty popular knife.
You know, it's it's.

14:24
It's really cool.
It's right up my alley in terms.
Obviously I designed it, but like this is my sort of size and you know ergo.
Dream knife in a way.
It's really.
It's really thick.
And this is something that I wasn't you know, fully aware.

14:43
You know when you work on these collaborations with these companies.
There's not a lot of communication will say like between when you send them the design and when it hits the shelves you know you you, you send them the design and.
Whatever six months later it you you see, you see it on eBay or something.
Oh my gosh, really.
Well, that's been my experience.
You know, I I don't know that I can't speak for everyone else but.
You know there's not a lot of like back and forth approvals on this and that.

15:17
They're just like, OK, we're taking it.
We're running, running with it and you'll see it when it's done kind of thing and it's not released to I mean especially as a newer designer.
It probably it.
Maybe it felt like it should come out to some fanfare.
You know.
Like why are we not?
But why is the world?

15:37
Why does the world not know you know exactly?
In fact, while we're on the subject of Tucson, this is my second Tucson design.
And I wasn't even aware that this one.
Was released when it was this.
I someone told me I forget who it was with someone.
Sent me a message on Instagram or something saying that they had seen my second knife with them come out.
This this is the.

16:04
3174 sorry.
Another cool little knife they you know.
This was one where they two son, took some some liberties in.
Throughout the engineering and design process, I think you know it looks like the one that I sent them, but they changed a couple of things that.
Let's say I was surprised when I saw it on on eBay, but I got to say I'm I'm a little stunned about the just about the I don't know the fact that it just appears you know, like I, it's interesting to me because because these things mean so much and and and also it's a I mean to us to knife people
they mean so much.
And then when it's your creation that you that you labored over, you know in your like this is a labor of your brain, and of your creativity and all that, and then and then to send it, and then have it, and.

17:04
You know it's a great thing that they make great knives, you know, because it would for all that to happen.
And then it's a lousy knife.
But yeah, wow, they they, they're just like here.
Thanks.
Thanks guy.
Essentially yeah, I mean it's it's and you know I've only worked with a few of these OEM, so obviously I'm sure they all work a little differently.
You know Tucson is.

17:26
I love their knives.
They do great work and.
You know, there's just not a lot of communication between.
You know when you send them to the design and when it when it hits the shelves.
And that's OK, you know, like I understand it, it's a two son knife and they're giving me design credit for it, and they pay me for it.
It's great.
I'm not complaining about anything, it's just how they work.

17:50
Ruby has been different.
You know they're they're way more sort of communicative.
It's not.
There's still not a lot of back and forth throughout the manufacturing process or anything like that, but.
They're they're much more likely to be like, hey, you're nice done.
Here's here.
It is.

18:08
We'll we'll send you a couple of them and it'll be ready.
You know it'll hit the shelves in a couple of weeks, you know?
Well, that's that's cool.
You can't ask for much more than that.
You can't ask them to send you progress, pictures.
Look, look.
We did the pivot today.

18:22
Like oh, thanks yeah, exactly.
It I got to say it's not surprising to me to hear that was your experience with Tucson, and the only reason I say that is there a bit of a mystery to me.
Just in general, they're knives like appear, and they're all.
They're all numbered, but they're they seem.
I thought it was just like a, you know, if it's in the three hundreds, it's the most recent, but I don't is that how it works?
I don't think so because this one because yours is a 174 or something more recent and it was 174. They're just a mysterious company, so you know it's like who are they?
That's a great question.

19:01
I don't really know.
I mean, I have communicated with a guy via Instagram, DM's and a mysterious e-mail, which is basically just like a bunch of numbers and the@gmail.com.
You know, it's like there's there is, and I don't know if maybe it's intentional on their part that there's this sort of cloak of mystery behind them, because the knives honestly are really good, and I think everyone.
Realizes that to some degree, I mean there's.
Of course there are production company.
There's going to be some lemons, but like everyone I've gotten from them has been.
Dialed in.

19:40
To my satisfaction at least, and the whole eBay thing I think throws people off a little bit, you know.
And now I think they're moving to a different.
You can buy them on Amazon, and I think white man, this one actually plug.
You can buy on White Mountain knives right now, I believe.
So I think they're trying to get out of this.
Like weird eBay bidding process to even buy buy one.
So, but yeah, are a mysterious company for sure.

20:13
Well, so now the stout.
I had the stout on loan and what a beautiful knife.
I called it a sheep's Cliff up front.
It's kind of has some sheeps, sheeps foot to it but it also has a little bit of Warren Cliff.
The tip is usable, you know you could make that an aggressive tip.
It's got a beautiful thumb Swale that's angular which I like, but it's still very comfortable.
The ergonomics are great.

20:36
I love a bolster lock.
It's that's probably right now.
Kind of.
My current favorite.
I love a bolster a lot because you get you get the perceived stoutness of a frame lock with the with the ease of use of a of a liner lock.
Tell me how this came about.
Tell me how you met Kev and decided that you were going to join creative forces.

20:57
Not an easy thing to do.
So a couple of my knives came across.
Because task, this one in particular and this one, and I think those spoke to him enough that we struck up a conversation on Instagram.
You know, I think it was me saying like hey, thanks for the kind words sort of thing and and I and I sent him my.
Personal koobi for him to review and and he loved it and.
And he had some sketch of a knife.
Uh, you know, in his back pocket or whatever that he's been.

21:40
You know, sitting on for a while and he was like, hey, I got this sketch like you know, let me know what you think about it or if you can do anything with it or whatever and he sent it to me and.
Of course it was like a rough sketch, but I saw some potential there and.
And just said, yeah, sure like I'll.
You know, run it through my my process of of designing a knife and see where it ends up, and I sent him a. A mock up of of what what eventually turned out to be the stout and.
And you know, as he always sort of puts it, he's like, well, it's sort of both of ours now, you know, obviously it's.
You know to go from the sketch to like turning it into a knife that could actually, you know, be produced as a as a process so.
That's how ultimately Diva was born.

22:37
I mean, we we we kind of said, well, we have to figure out how to how to sell this and I you know, I know from doing these kind of things that like these collaborations, they're not.
Exactly like very fruitful endeavors.
You know, like you get paid, but it's not a lot, and it's more like, you know it's more for the at least.
Again, this is speaking for me, who is a very, very new at this.
I'm sure there are.
More well known designers out there that have that make great money off their collaborations, but.
It didn't make sense to like shop this around to A to a company for Kevin and I to like split the profit off of whatever we would make so so that's when and you know he has the platform to to to sort of market it and.

23:35
And I have the design chops, and that's sort of how how Diva was born.
That's great.
So I mean that those sound like very complimentary.
Skills very complementary, uh, uh, uh what do you call attributes that you're bringing to the table?
How?
How does the how does the work?
How does the designing, but how does the creative part of the process work with two people designing one knife?

24:02
Yeah, good question.
I mean like for the, for the stout it was sort of, you know.
I think people have seen this original sketch.
You put it on his Instagram at some point and it was I. I literally traced the sketch and.
You know, reworked it to the point where I I felt like it would function as a as a. You know, folding knife.
You know where we could send it off and get manufactured and.
That's kind of how things work in general.

24:34
Like you know he'll have an idea.
And and I should say, like the stout is.
You know it's not like a knife that I would have designed on my own, and I don't mean that as at all as a as a insult.
I love the way this doubt turned out, so it's been this like sort of fun.
Challenge of like you know, reaching into his mind is in terms of like what he's looking for in a knife and.
You know, putting my own twist on it, and that's sort of how every knife that we've designed has has been and it and we have, you know, a few more in the works.
I think you you have one of the prototypes and.

25:17
You know, oftentimes they're they're kind of born from a from a sketch or an idea that he has and.
I take it and run with it and of course put my own my own sort of design twist on it and.
We go back and forth and end up where we end up then.
Would you say that you have?
Well, no, I'm not going to ask that question.
I'm going to tell you it seems like you have very compatible taste in knives just from knowing what you've made and what you what you collect and what what.
Kev seems to really like on his channel.

26:01
Do you is there?
Is there an ideal you're going for in the designs like?
Because, uh, the reason I ask is the stout and this both seem very work oriented, but this one has a different I I really I I very much like this one.
For the point, I love the blade shape.
I love the broad grind of this.
I was about to tell you before we started rolling and I decided I wanted to save it to tell you here.
But this is one of the few knives that is on loan to me that I've used actually Kev loaned me this amazing evo and I'm just like like it's not a little velvet pillow over here and.

26:46
This one I used and I cut up we we had a an IKEA affair recently and I cut up some of the IKEA cardboard with this.
I I was I was careful because it is thin and it's not mine and but it's still and I know it can take it and it glided through everything and the blade itself has this beautiful luster to it that that didn't didn't get like at first I was a little worried it was going to get all it would get scarred
up but it didn't.
Like at all.
And so tell me about these prototypes and this design and what the goal the design goal was with this.
And then, in a broader sense, how that fits in with all your knives.
That's a lot of questions.

27:28
Let's just talk about.
Start with the the design of this one it.
This sort of came from a conversation that Kevin and I were having about, Umm, you know, he he wanted a. A kind of big belly.
Knife, you know to be the follow up I think to our to the style which is not.
You know, it's sort of.
It's not a traditional Warren Cliff I guess, but straighter and just, you know, Warren Cliffy sheeps footage type of thing and I think he referenced in in in regards to the Growler design he referenced the.
Bench made I think it's the hidden Canyon.

28:10
It's one of their fixed blades and it has a big.
It's a big belly.
Kind of.
You know tall blade, big belly kind of thing.
And that was essentially the inspiration for.
For the growler, that's the the start of the Growler, and we also wanted to follow up the stout with kind of an affordable thing that we wouldn't have to do another pre order for.
You know, we're we're hoping that this will hit around $100, maybe maybe a tad more.

28:38
Kind of depending on everything, but.
We wanted to an affordable knife with the with the vastly different blade profile than the one that we just came out with and.
We landed on the Growler and we're we're super happy with it.
You know it is.
Very close to being put in production.
I think Sheldon is actually the OEM that we ended up.
That's that's the one you have at the SHIELD prototype and we've been in communication with them with some.

29:17
Some tweaks that we're going to make.
Do it.
The other one that I handled at Blade was koobi.
Was that who did the other one?
OK, that one was noticeably thicker.
As I recall it was and.
That's one of those things where you you know you.

29:37
You give some real specific specs and you know.
They they weren't hit for whatever reason and.
You know, maybe they were able.
They could have sort of thinned things out, but we we felt that shieldon really nailed it and they and they gave us like 6 prototypes.
I think we had a lot and they were all really consistent in their the detents and the action centering all that kind of stuff is really dialed in on all of them so.
It was, it gave us enough confidence in in shielding to move forward with them and and we like the thinness of it, you know, and we're going to one of the changes we're making is we're going to do some chamfering.
It feels a little sort of.

30:22
Sharp on the corners now.
So we're going to soften the edges a little bit.
You mean of the handle of the handle?
Yeah, OK, yeah, I mean, just just for the record, for people who are listening or watching, not sharp in any way that this is, there is no discomfort.
But I see what you mean.
It's it's luxurious to have a little bit of a change, but you could use this all day as is this prototype.
Anyway I feel and it would still be fine, and that's because of the broadness of the handle the the profile you know.

30:53
The overall silhouette of the handle.
And then the thinness altogether.
I mean, yeah, this is very comfortable, but I love that it has a nice point too I. I know, I know, I don't know I I just like a center line point, even even on a Warren Cliff and and that can that can be done.
And that was one thing that I really liked about the stout.
Was that I had a very nice usable tip, but it wasn't an aggressive scary tip that if you pull that thing out to cut your sandwich at work, people are going to comment.
But if you needed to ship one of them, you could heaven forbid, and I'm only making a joke, but the point is, I like a usable tip like that, yeah, but it doesn't have to be scary looking, agreed, and a lot of I think a lot of the stuff Kevin and I both do with our knives is.
More sort of geared towards a Warren Cliff Sheepsfoot style blade, you know.

31:48
And for being honest, it's like boxes and you know whatever.
It's the stuff that most of us use our knives for to be.
Let's be honest, you know.
And and this one the the the Growler does feel a little bit more like a. You know, food prep kind of thing.
You know with the big belly and the and the.
You know, if you hold it, the belly sort of is dips below your your finger line.
You know it's like a it's a it would be a good food chopper, but also the tip isn't like you know we we intentionally sort of dove the tip down towards the center line a little bit to keep it from being a really high belly on it because we don't need that necessarily.

32:33
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's.
What are you calling that blade tape?
I'm going to call it a clip point.
What are you going to call it?
Good question.
We we haven't discussed that yet.
It is sort of clip point esque, huh?

32:46
I've I haven't honestly.
Considered what?
What to call it?
And it's getting, so it's getting harder and harder to to categorize blades.
I'm working on it.
We're working on a new design right now actually, which is a which is a lock back to sort of hopefully ride the wave of the hype of this one.
And you know, it's it's sort of a tanto.

33:11
But I have all these different variations of blade shapes that are kind of a clip .10. You know there's like.
Once you're in there, just messing around, you're like man, I don't.
This is so far beyond any kind of classification of a of a typical blade shape that you know who knows, it's it's a combination of some stuff, for sure.
Yeah, it's like a blade.
Shapes lately have gone the way of martial arts.
Now, if you're a martial artist and you can't grapple, it's like you know half the game or or whatever.
You know how everything has kind of gotten mixed up everywhere.

33:45
I mean, that's that's the society we live in.
You know everything is blending together or whatever, but it's it's kind of interesting to see how blades people call people call bellied worn cliffs, reverse tantos and to me it.
It makes me bristle I'm like how can you say that?
Yeah, it's interesting and it, and I think there is some you know in designing a knife like you want to somehow differentiate it from from other stuff that you've seen.
I mean, you know.
And of course you know I've we've seen it already with knives.
We've come out with.

34:22
People are like, well, this looks like a blah blah blah blah blah.
You know, it's like you can't get away from you, know your knife falling into some category that looks roughly like something else.
But part of the challenge of.
Designing is to, like you know, make something that looks fairly unique and that doesn't at least remind yourself of of something else that you like, and it's hard to.
It's hard to not do that, but I think that that maybe has like pushed.
This whole blade shape conversation to a different place where it's really hard now to classify.
You know certain blade shapes and, and I think that's cool.

35:05
I mean, I think you know we don't need to necessarily have things fall into a category of this is a a whatever you know.
Is it a usable cool looking blade?
Great?
Well, you know.
Call it whatever you want I guess.
Yeah, right, right yeah.
Well, when you're designing like you were just saying like you, you have to you want to make sure that you're making something that doesn't really at least remind you of something else.

35:32
But that's that's got to be difficult because you know we're all kind of.
We're all unaware I shouldn't say all.
We tend to be unaware of where all of our influences come, things that we've seen that like I stare at the I, stare at the brake lights of cars, and they're all shaped like knife blades.
I swear of different sorts and so we don't know where we're getting our influences all the time.
And sometimes it's hard to know.
So let me ask you this.
When you're designing, you're sitting down at your computer designing or sketching something out.

36:06
Are you censorious of yourself?
Are you stopping yourself go?
This looks too much like a warm Cliff that I think I've seen.
Let me, or is it the sort of thing where you just kind of just go off and then and then look at it later and do editing?
Probably more the latter, I think when you're kind of in the in the zone you know you're you're just sort of trying your hardest to make something that looks good and and works, you know, and that's sort of like it's a puzzle, you know because.
Umm, you know I I do most of my designing and kind of exploration in Adobe Illustrator, so it's like kind of 2D vector stuff, but it's like.
You know you can pivot the blade, open it, close it, and you know oftentimes you're like well.

36:59
This looks really great open, but when you close it like the.
You know, tip hits the backspace or whatever.
You know there's all these like things that you're constantly correcting and sort of tweaking and and you just get in this sort of.
Zone of like correcting and tweaking and opening and closing and.
It's hard to kind of step out of that in that moment, and be like, oh, this ended up looking like something you know and we we had that happen a little bit with.
One of the prototypes we had at Blade show the mash and we got a lot of comments that looked like the.
Richard Rogers slim utility.

37:44
And yeah, we see you know it's like and we and we did see that before.
You know, before we sort of went forward with the prototype, but in no way is it like oh, let's get as close as we can to this one knife.
It's like, you know, we tweak and we massage it and we finesse it.
We do all the stuff to it and you know, there's tons of I mean, I, I wish I could show you my like illustrator artboard with like thousands, not thousands.
Hundreds of variations of it.
And then you know you land on something and you're happy with it.
And.

38:22
Of course, at the end of the day, like it looks like this, you know and.
Yeah.
You know it's a funny thing about the well, the knives looking like other knives.
And you mentioned the Richard Rogers Slim utility and and I'm remembering I think I'm remembering the match.
I think I know the knife you're talking about and that that wouldn't be a direct comparison.
I would make, but what I find interesting is that, for instance, you know I have this just to illustrate.
When I. First saw the EVO when it first came out.

38:54
I was like oh that looks just like a Strider.
That's a strider.
Rip off, you know, I didn't say that to anyone, but that's what I was thinking in my mind, yeah?
And then, which is where I think everything by the way and then and then I. Actually looked at them side by side pictures and I'm like no OK, they're both folders.
They both have a A you know, large gimping and a lozenge shaped opening hole and and a task.
And a handle that widens towards the pole.
That's about it.

39:23
But to me in in in my experience with the way my visual brain works that's those are the two things I aligned and I guess people were doing that with the with the slim with the slim utility.
But it doesn't.
I don't.
That didn't occur to me.
Well, that's good to know that I'm glad it it didn't.
You know that didn't ring true to you.
And it's like I guess you know it's just going to happen.

39:50
There's so many knives out there and so many designs that.
You know it is a. I mean, it's a great time to be a a knife enthusiast and that like so many people are cranking knives out right now and these these manufacturers and these companies are just running on all cylinders and cranking stuff out and not.
And you know, like back, I think that I'm sure there was a time that you know there was.
You know a handful of companies that were like putting out their things.
They all have their sort of styles and and there wasn't a whole lot of crossover there, but now that.
Over the past, probably 10 years, you know there's just been this flood of of knives and I'm grateful for for that.
I love that that's the case.

40:37
But you're bound to run into something that feels familiar along the way.
I mean, yeah, I mean, we've only been making knives for, you know, 10,000 years I think.
Or something like that, probably more probably vastly more I don't know.
Uh, but.
What makes me worry?
You say it's a great time and I agree with you.
It's the best time so far that I've experienced, and I've been.

41:02
I've been collecting my knives the whole my whole life and I, you know, I'm.
I'm I'm half 100 so you know I've seen it and and and right now I'm like I get I get worried it's kind of like you know I'm also a father and sometimes I have irrational bouts of.
Worry thinking about every horrible thing under the sea.
I mean under the sky that could happen, you know, as as a father knife bubble.
That's what I'm thinking.
Like are we in the middle of a bubble?
Is going to burst in like the whole?

41:33
Because how much more you know.
And I think it's much more.
Yeah, I mean it's an interesting question and a interesting thought.
I've never.
It's never really occurred to me, but like I guess what?
We hope for is that the.
The people that are manufacturing these knives.

41:55
I mean, there's no shortage of people that are designing knives.
Let's be honest, like any, anyone can send a sketch to somebody and they'll be like, yeah, we'll make it, you know, pay us however much money and and that's that.
If you have the money, you can make a knife.
You have them have a knife made.
It's I think the worry that I have had before is that like the.
Quality of these manufacturers.
You know, we don't want to bog them down this stuff there.

42:21
You know some of these manufacturers that we lean on to make our knives.
You know, there's a limited amount of people there and a limited amount of you know resources to do it and and what they do is amazing.
I mean, you know, I think we can all agree that, like.
You know it's what they.
What they've done is is great and what we don't want is for them to be like overwhelmed with with people saying knocking on their door saying hey, I have a new design and and I mean, I am admittedly part of that problem, probably because I'm now knocking on lots of doors with lots.
Take it from me, you know what?
What does concern me though?

43:05
What if these companies and this is all just, you know hypothetical?
But what if?
The demand is so extreme that it becomes like OK, all they really want is to fidget with these things.
Don't worry about the heat.
Treat someone.
It's a little bit here a little bit there or or or some of the other things suffer because it's just like I mean, it's in my name.
Knife junkie, you know, like I do, I understand I have an irrational sort of pull towards the things and you know, we'll spend my money on them and they're counting on that.

43:38
And you know one thing that I think is is.
Among the many wonderful things about the knife community is that you know.
They will if if something like the heat treat or the steel composition or whatever starts to get like a little weird.
People will know people will find out really quickly, as we've seen like I think that's great.
You know you need we need.
I'm not going to be the one that's like Rockwell testing stuff in my garage.
You know, I I'm trusting that this stuff is heat treated the way it's supposed to be.

44:14
Heat treated and you know, honestly, I'm not like, you know, I have lots of knives and I'm not probably pushing any of them to the point where I'm, I can tell if it's not treated to 60 or 61 or whatever, but there are people that are.
And.
And they'll let you know if you're if you're slacking on the heat treat, or if you're slacking on this.
If you're lying about the steel composition or something like that, so there's always going to be a level of like accountability, and I think I think companies know that and.
And us, like you know, myself and Kevin as as people we as a company.
You know, we try really hard to communicate that we we push for a certain Rockwell on a on a on a steel, even if it's a little bit beyond the manufacturers recommendations because that has sort of been what that's what is like the norm now you know like.
And and there's pushback on that.

45:18
So that's a battle that we that I think companies have to fight with manufacturers that it's OK if if it's if you think it's just slightly more brittle, we will accept that for a longer for a better edge retention or whatever.
So anyways, it's it's an interesting sort of conversation to be had and and and people will be will be held accountable and.
Been called out if it's not handled correctly, I think, yeah, I mean, we also saw that with you know, like Jake Hoback and getting you know people called him out for the origin of his knives.
You know, that's I think because people really take this and we'll call it right now.
A hobby for you.
It's an occupation, but people take knives seriously and get passionate about it.
Like most people get passionate about whatever their hobbies or enthusiasms are.

46:10
And and there's a certain you know, self righteousness.
I'm not calling people self-righteous.
That's not what I mean, but there's a certain feeling that you're doing good for your fellow knife lovers and and you know that that's your, you know your brother in in in knives, and you're doing them a good solid by calling this kind of stuff out.
And and I agree, you know it's self policing.
And the the Nice community has been like really good at self policing.
And you know, if something goes awry, people are aware and.
And I'm grateful for that and and you.

46:48
You said it beautifully, like I think we all want.
I mean, we're all knife enthusiasts, no ones like trying to make a quick buck necessarily, you know, like, Umm, you know, Kevin and I are just trying to make really good knives and we're not, you know, the making money is not the is not the.
Object right now it's it's let's get the best thing we can into people's hands and.
You know, build a trustworthy kind of brand and.
But yeah, I mean, I think we're all we're all knife guys, you know we're all I'm a fan of of lots of nice people that are doing the same I assume.
Yeah yeah, I mean, I think in your position it's.
People know that you're going to reputable OEM's, so it's a matter of do they like your designs and do they like who you're choosing for OEM's.

47:43
But do they like your designs and that's a that's a great position to be in, I feel because.
If it's a company that's making the work, then they're they're designing and making it and.
They, in other words, if you were starting your own knife company and you and Kev were making these knives, you would not only be making them, you would be designing them and those two things have to match up.
What am I trying to say?
I'm trying to say that you know that the OEM's that you're sending these knives to and or that you're sending your designs to are going to produce them well and it's really hinging on your designs, not on your skill with a grinder.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, we put a lot of trust in the manufacturing of these companies.

48:28
QSP did a great job we feel with the with the stout and building has done a great job with this knife.
You know, like there is a certain handoff of like look, we have a design we feel like works well.
We're trusting you guys to to do a good job in executing it, and that's admittedly the hard part.
You know they're doing the hard part.
We sort of have the easy job of making it look cool and.
I mean, it's I'm not saying it's easy to design A knife, you know it's a. It's a labor of love, but like there's a lot of sort of engineering you things that they have to figure out on their own to to make it work.
And they've you know we trust them and they do a good job, yeah?

49:13
An interesting thing about, say, the shieldon that Shieldon prototype that I'm holding right here or the OR the stout prototype from.
Oh, not koobi it just escaped me.
Who made the QSP?
Those two?
Those two knives were more luxurious than any other QSP, and this is feels, feels like way more high quality.
I shouldn't put it that way because all shield ends that I've had, and we've had a bunch.
Here are really high quality, but this feels luxurious.

49:45
It feels different and and it's it's interesting to me because I guess they pull out different stops for the OEM work.
They're like, oh wait, what we're going to do this in the materials they're asking for and and it's like they put a special Polish on it or something.
This is really feels nicer than any shield in, so thank you.
That's good to hear and we appreciate it.
And and you know, truthfully, I don't.
We don't know like what I've heard that.
You know they actually sort of rush the prototypes and the prototypes can oftentimes fall subpar of what the production would be because they have to like set up all the tooling and everything and you're you know, wasting not wasting.

50:29
But you're like spending time doing this for six knives or whatever that you could be like cranking out knives that are are actually making you money and.
So when we get prototypes I mean prototypes are really telling for us as a as a company.
You know if we have 6 prototypes that are really consistent and feel really good, that gives us a lot of confidence that the production you know they'll they'll get that really dialed in and.
And Sheldon and QSP both have have done that with the prototypes and we've yet to see the the actual production run, obviously.
But like we're confident that they're going to be really good.
So moving forward into the future about you as a designer.
Are are you maintaining?

51:23
Parallel design efforts with uh, with your own personal label for for licensing, designs and stuff like that, as well as Devo, are you kind of doing them simultaneously?
Have yet to do anything under CM since Devo has has formed.
I mean Devo has kept me really busy and you know we have.
You know four or five designs that are sort of in some stage of prototyping slash.
You know production, so I haven't had time to really focus on CM designs.
And truthfully, you know, it just feels like you know, I'll probably focus on Devo, and you know, I mean, it doesn't make a whole unless Kevin and I just don't see eye to eye at all on on a design that I really love, you know.
And in that case, I might try to get it made somewhere else.

52:22
But.
You know we have a very similar taste and and.
I don't really see that being a problem, so I I think there may be less CM designs out there and and more Devo.
That's my hope.
But we'll see there might be.
There might be a PCM, you know, slipping through here.
I do have some still in in the works actually.

52:46
So there will be a couple of others I think trickling down the line that are done and with the manufacturer, but.
We like your release valve like there's something that there's a knife.
I just wanna have made it's not right for the Devo lineup.
It's not a Devo night.
You know it's a color knife.
It's a it's a. It's a recurved double triple edge tanto.
Exactly, but it's really small and it's a frame lock.

53:17
I do like a small eyes and and no I know.
I guess Kevin likes small eyes.
I like smaller knives than Kevin does, so yeah.
So the the stout was three and a half.
This is 3 1/2 right?
This is yeah that's about 3.6 and a quarter or something like that 33.3. I think the Stouts 3.3 ish 2-3. Yeah, you're right.
Yeah, right, you're right.

53:43
I only designed the thing.
But yeah, I know how long the wait is you *******.
Alright, So what about Devo knives then?
Where do you see the company?
How do you see it evolving to its?
You know what's what are you chasing there?
As a company, I think.

54:01
We would both say that we're just gonna kind of.
Keep going and you know we have you know.
I mean we we have seen some excitement around the stouts and and around the Growler and that to us is really encouraging and and you know.
There's no.
Specific goal we're trying to reach.
I think we're just going to keep cranking stuff out and.
Seeing seeing where it goes.

54:30
I mean we both.
We're both still employed, you know, with full time jobs elsewhere.
So this is for for both of us.
Still like a part time gig and.
You know?
There's no like immediate.
I have no plan to like quit my job to do this full time, right?

54:49
You know it's going to take a while, but.
Yeah, I think we're just going to go and and I mean, we're we're.
We both love it and there's no reason to stop and we're just going to keep going.
I mean, to me that's really exciting.
And that's kind of the goal.
And that's that's why I started this show.
It's like how can I spend?

55:09
How can I spend my hobby time?
Basically doing more knife stuff without without boring all the people around me who care.
You know, like.
But but it it seems like just like you can have CM designs as your as your release valve, it seems like.
Devon Knives can can release can do things in the pre sale way or or the yeah the the presale way for more expensive projects you can you can go so you it seems like you're preparing yourselves or are already making yourselves a versatile company.
This is going to be just north of 100 bucks.
You said probably and then the stout.

55:50
I don't know.
That was probably a $300 knife.
I'm not sure what you were, what it was going for, but it was 285 ish on pre-order.
Probably to 90 something on, you know.
We'll have some extras that are.
But yeah, just South of 300, yeah, so it makes sense for you guys right to to do that kind of thing on a pre so you know that you're going to get your money for that.
You know, we just couldn't afford to do it.

56:17
Otherwise, you know we had to.
We had to raise the money to do A to pay the manufacturer to to make them, and I'm sure they'll still be more pre-orders.
Coming for for nicer knives.
It's just you know, this.
The shield and knife we were able to afford ourselves, so I think there'll be a balance of sort of.
Premium expensive preorder type of knives and you know stuff that we can just release and you know go for a 14 C, My Carta or probably not G10.
He hates G10 but like my Carta and you know and affordable good steal you'll.

56:58
You'll see more of that.
I'm sure that's what people want.
They want range Spyderco gives you range cold steel gives you range and they all you know not they all but some of the big ones and and.
Was it the popular ones?
The ones that give you a lot of options, so I that seems like a good plan.
So how can people catch up with you or or find out about Devo knives and and get on a pre order or or find out when pre-orders are coming up and that kind of thing.
Best thing is to go to devonknives.com and Scroll down to the bottom and sign up for our newsletter and you'll get blasted with emails every once in a while.

57:33
When there's a a new release coming.
Follow myself and and Kevin on Instagram.
I'm see him under score knife designs I believe.
And you know, Kevin's obviously left the EDC like we're both.
We're both posting a lot about about our upcoming vivo stuff and and follow Devo Knives on Instagram as well.
Yeah, it's a great feed and and well, it's eye candy.
What can I say?

58:01
I love Colin.
Thank you so much for coming on.
The Knife Junkie podcast.
It was a pleasure to meet you and to and to get your side of the story of Devo 9 as well.
Thanks so much for having me on it was a it was an honor and I'm a big fan so this was this was good to be on here and this was my honor.
Thanks for entrusting me with this.
Pleasure man, all right.

58:24
Take care.
Do you carry multiple knives?
Then overthink which one to use when an actual cutting chore pops up, you're a knife junkie of the 1st order.
There goes Colin.
Keep your eyes peeled for the upcoming release OEM by shielding the growler.
I'll show you one more time this thing is so cool and a great great cutter.
Join us next week for another great conversation with a knife maker or a knife luminary type and also join us on Wednesday for the midweek supplemental.

58:58
Don't forget Thursday night knives.
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I am Bob DeMarco, saying until next time don't take doll for an answer.
Thanks for listening to the Knife Junkie podcast.

59:23
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59:47
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