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AUTOMATED TRANSCRIPT

Announcer [00:00:03]:

Welcome to the Knife Junky Podcast to your weekly dose of knife news and information about knives and knife collecting. Here's your host, Bob the knife junkie DeMarco.

Bob DeMarco [00:00:16]:

Welcome to the knife junkie podcast. I'm your host, Bob Demarco. On this edition of the show, I'm speaking with Zach Wingard of Wingard Wearables. You know Zach. He's been on the show before. Zach is the man who has turned his mind to making Tomahawks and other more traditional weapons, EDCEable weapons, and EDCEable tools. He's had a wide variety of implements sometimes I call them implements of chaos come out through his through his company, Wingard Wearables. Most notably, 3 Tomahawks. You've got variations of those Tomahawks. up a an actual pylon that you can wear and use. And coming up here soon, he might have something that we're all gonna be very excited about. even more so than Tomahawks. We'll talk to Zach and find out all about what he's got cooking. But before we do, be sure to you. Like, comment, subscribe, and share this video, you can also head on over to Patreon where you can help support the show. Just go to the knifejunky.com slash Patreon. Again, that's the knifejunkie.com/patreon.

Announcer [00:01:23]:

Do you use terms like handle to blade ratio, walk and talk, air pop and sharp or tank like, then you are a dork, and a knife junkie.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:33]:

Zach, welcome back to the show. It's great to have you here, sir. Always great to be with you, Bob. Well, it it's it's always great to have you here. You know, I I like to say I started the show because No one in my midst. No one around me wants to hear me go on and on about knives. And I I I don't know. I think maybe you started your company for maybe similar reasons, but you've got a great YouTube channel that every time you put a video on, I am one of those twelve people who watches to the end. Awesome. I love them, and I love your historical take. So, anyway, it's great to have you back. So a new product, it's new ish that you've been going to town on recently is one that is an upgrade or an upsize to something that you already had out and I see it in your hand right there. And -- Yeah. This is -- What is this? This is the original

Zac Wingard [00:02:28]:

pick pick multi tool. So we came out with a dick pic in a 2021, so it's an l shaped spike. You got a hammer face on one side, 5 bar on the other, and this spike on the other end is kinda shaped like, you know, if you're listening to the show, it looks like, when you say Grim Reaper Size kinda Yeah. Yeah. Actually, it looks a lot like a side. Yeah. And so it is a spike tool, prybar, percussive hammer tool. grimp it in a variety of ways like a push dagger or an ice pick grip, that sort of thing, for utility and defensive use. And so when we came out with the full size dick thick, it's about six and a half inches long. A few people were like, hey. You know, can you make a smaller one? And so he said, yeah. And so we made a smaller version. And the reason we call them the dick pick is you can't wear them above your grind, you know, tucked inside the waistband, but we came out with the micro dip pick. k? So it's about four and a half inches long. It's thinner, stock material, but it's still a spike, and it's a little bit harder, steel, harder hardness, more tapered and really good for, like, all, like, cast and scribe it. But while we made it, of course, you know, got a exploit that design space, you know, fully explore and see how much utility and combat abuse you can get out of it. and we were thinking, Hey. Gotta make that dick pic Magnum. When you had me on the show, I think it was back like November, December, we mentioned we're thinking about it. We didn't know what it looked like or how big it was gonna get, and it's huge. This is what it looks like in the Stafford, but it is 12 just over 12 inches long.

Bob DeMarco [00:04:16]:

Wow.

Zac Wingard [00:04:18]:

And we went with this really cool hand forged twisted group sections. It's kind of traditional, like, Medieval dagger twists. So you got -- Right. -- gripping grooves, but it also transitions the cross section instead of, like, square cross section like our previous thick fix, it ends in a a diamond cross section. And so yeah, this thing's really cool. And, actually, even though it looks large and what's in the Scabbard, it weighs less than a pay bar knife and a sheet. Mhmm. And so and the scabbers slim enough to slide through Molly House loops know, if you are wearing it at your ear, but put on these little grommets on here or brass eyelets. I put on a discreet carry concepts clip. I've actually been wearing mine above my groin, but you gotta stick the, you know, the 12 inches of, you know, scabber. down to the leg. Like -- Right. -- just offset from the wedding tackle. You know, you can't have a direct on the wedding deckle. But, you know, traditional medieval daggers, like, they call them bullock daggers. Oh, really? You know, those had Well, I wanna wanna try to use g rated language. They were you know, people in medieval times had sense of humor similar to many people today, and so they wanted a dagger that kind of looks like male genitalia. It had a and they actually would wear it. above their groin. You'd see depictions of knights and stuff where a dagger just hung in the center, handle pointed up It was a little bit of crude humor, but because daggers were a means of self defense back that they want to be able to reach to their core with either hand and draw the dagger who's a either deflect the defensive blow or, you know, stab an enemy. So those were ballic daggers. Here we got the Dick pick Now magnum size. Awesome. It is it is cruellymedieval dagger size. like that. They I've been in museums like war museums in France where they had rawdiggers and bullet daggers that were this short know they definitely had ones that were even Wingard, so you could do, like, block a sword with your forearm, you know, sort of thing. But you know, soldiers back then were were pretty practical too. If you could get away with carrying something shorter that would get the job done, you would do it. And so we think about 12 inches is probably pushing the maximum practical length there like say a soldier would carry, but it also works inside the pants. You know, your pant tightness and pant color and stuff, it could print more like if you were a denim jeans, you know, denim will wear, like, a it'll show hot spots. Yes. Yes. If you were wearing this every day with denim, I mean -- You start getting a lot of attention. Yeah. There are ladies that some men would be paying attention to. So You know, you definitely need to choose, like, with all wearable items, whether it's our Tom box spikes, quills, or just anything, like pocket knives with clips on. Yep. There are clothing types that have poor combinations with anything. So you always gotta, like, choose the right combination, both in color and in fabric period. But, yeah, we're excited. Take big magnets, and we launch these in within 25 hours. I wish I could say 24 by a truthful person. They sold out.

Bob DeMarco [00:07:48]:

Wow. That that's impressive. So so this I know is designed to be the length of a k bar. It's it's it's, you know, supposed to stay in about the same length envelope of something like that. And then it's got no edges. What are the benefits speaking of this as a weapon first because that's that's what I see. What benefits of not having an edge?

Zac Wingard [00:08:16]:

So I got into this on my YouTube video about it. Yeah. A big graphic, but I'll I'll spare the wars stories. But I interviewed with a couple of veterans that had to use blades in combatives. in modern or we're talking within, you know, global or terror time frame. So you know, what they found was these single edged knives that were kind of big bellied, like, k bar type knives or field knives or cold steel SRKs and other class a example. Very good utility knives. Very good in combatives facing opponents that usually aren't wearing a lot of clothes on. But in two instances, they had difficulty. These soldiers did in capacitating the target with a big belly single edge knight. Now a double edge knight, like twice the edge, it's very pointy. would have worked. Right? Especially if it was narrower, but they had issues getting through, like, layered nylon, think like a harness here, like, webbing, so the opponent isn't wearing a body armor, but they're wearing equipment on them that's connected on their body with layered nylon. Layered milspec nylon is very resistant to, like, a single edge, like, big belly knife that point getting through. And even, opposed to we're just in a cotton t shirt, and the blade on a K BAR or SRK is wide enough that your orientation isn't right, it's gonna get jammed up on the ribs, like the rib cage. But the intercostal spaces are actually very narrow and variable and angled. Like, a in a rib cage structure, you can't really like, you may have read, like, about the old school, like, Sykes Fair Van Dagger, like, oh, you you take your thumb orientations, so the blade was horizontal. Flip through the ribs. And it's like, well, If you look at a a skeleton model, you know, and you bend it and stuff, those intercostal spaces are just they're an angle. they're going -- Constantly changing. Exactly. So well, the dick pick magnum from a competitive standpoint, you know, if you're facing up on it. It wasn't, you know, wearing body armor, just getting through reaching the vitals. It's narrow. You know, it's about a half inch wide at the diamond cross section as widest point, but it's from 3 eights thick

Zac Wingard [00:10:42]:

1075.

Zac Wingard [00:10:44]:

It's point you need a, you know, a sharp somewhere for the puncture to work. And so it is going to efficiently split through and not be sensitive to orientation, and it will be able to reach areas like you went through the face and that sort of thing, which Medieval daggers did. Eventually, Medieval daggers evolved into not terribly good cutting instruments It became sort of like sharpened rods or bars, and that was because they had to, like, work in the gaps when they're facing opponents and body arvo. you know, think isolates or the joints of the plate armor and then ram at home. They weren't trying to stab through the plate armor. they were trying to work in the gaps. And when you start looking at, you know, soldiers in today's combat zones, although hand in hand combat is rare, it does happen. once they're wearing a ballistic body armor on their chest, it even covers up to the side of the back. So the classic World War 2, century removal, stuff, once they're wearing the Kevlar Helmet, plate carrier, You know, the Kevlar all over their torso, you're working with gaps again. The gaps may be larger than, you know, say at night wearing, like, medieval chain nail plate armor, but there's still gaps. You know, a lot of those come out of techniques that were proven in World War 2 using K BAR style knives. kinda go out the window when you're talking about opponent that's wearing ceramic plate, Kevlar, and then lots of magazines and stuff across their chest. Like, you're not gonna be able to to stab through it even when the dick, pick mag, it's not gonna get through for him. Like, you're not gonna find the gap and take a long way around. Like, gaps between the collar and the neck, gaps some shoulder straps, gaps under the R, or gaps, you know, in the face, the opening, and the helmet. Those are at at minimum. You're talking 7 inches or more to reach the vitals on-site. Well, you can't do that with most fixed blades that are too wide to get through them. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. It it's reminding me of the Japanese

Bob DeMarco [00:12:55]:

armor that I've seen, you know, at the at the Met museum that When you look at it, it's all laces and fabric and small, you know, small plates. It's not as overtly armor like like, Medieval West medieval European armor. But you know that that stuff was built with a purpose. It was not only absolutely beautiful to look at, but it could stop any manner of weapons, and it's kinda similar to just having layered cotton and then nylon and then some sort of a jacket and all that. you know, unless you have something that's really acute or really hooked and and and -- Yeah. I know. -- grippy. like a parameter, a hawk bill of some sort, something serrated or something. You're gonna have a lot of time hard time getting through that. So talking about the dick pic and talking about the picks in general and the and the magnum, you know, I have I have this. This is the quill. Oh, I like that. Wrap. Oh, yeah. It's a little jute jute wrap around there. I love that. So this this is another thing that you make. You make this in a number of sizes. And it started it started as a design that your wife created something that she could put around and keep, like, jewelry. But It's a a really effective weapon. Obviously, it's got a lot of this is my favorite hold. The hammer who this, but it's got a lot of really great ways you can hold it but it's also revealed itself as an incredibly useful tool for a lot of other things. We've talked about that on this show staple remover. coffee cup carburetor, you know, all sorts of also, like Oh, yeah. You could tell what a what a what a easy lifestyle I lead, but, you know, lots of things you can use this for. Where where where does the pick come in? What do you use the pick for that's not weapony? So so I'll take the I'll tell you this.

Zac Wingard [00:14:47]:

So even though we go where we'll start with Tom Box, like, it takes a special kind of person to to to own and carry a Tomhawk on them every day. Yes. Like, I think everyone should have a Tomlock list. Like, I I know, like, okay. most people are gonna think that's, like, too far for them. Right? But as far as spikes go, whether it's a a very point sharp tip spike like the dick pic or a more blunt tip spike like the quill, everyone should be carrying a spike and a blade of some kind. I don't care if it's a folding knife, with a spike or sheet a fixed blade. Just the spike and the blade pair it together so well. You know, they need to be very light, very easy to carry, especially spikes that they can be with their design light. But they're essentially like super fingers. If you look at the Wingard, you use every day. You use your nails to scrape things. You use your fingers to, like, you know, progressively, your knuckles to press into things. You use the poke using to tear things apart and a metal spike if it's done right, especially if it's like facet is, not just round. You can do all the tasks you can do with your fingers now greatly expand it because now it's, you know, thinner, stronger. It doesn't have nerves in it to feel pain. You can pry. You can pick. You can bash. You can tear things. You can do a whole bunch of tasks that normally would damage a folding knife or could damage a fixed blade. If you really have a nice slicey fixed blade edge, You know, you don't want to be prying and scraping things necessarily with it or, you know, piercing and twisting. you know, so you can do those types of motions with either the quill or the Dick picks, but our Dick picks are a harder seal and pointier, and so they do come with a carry system to protect you from the the tip. And because they're longer than the the quills, especially when you start talking about, like, the full size dick pic, of course, the backup. You get you get all kinds of problems. And, you know, the quills you can pry with, but for that hook like shape, that pry shape, it's it's a lot like it's things like, hey. I pulled out a Tupperware dish that's been in the freezer for 2 years. What the hell is in this thing so I can get that quill you know, and and pry it open like that, but, you know, you can take all kinds of frying angles with the dick pic magna. or the dick picks. You know? It's that sort of simple l shaped spike. You know, they can you know, we scaled it up and down size like a handle, just a variety of things. But I mean, even, like, regular spikes, quills, either one of these. You can percussively bash things instead of using the the hammer fist, the meat of your palm to hit things. You know, you can do just all kinds of stuff with a properly designed spike

Bob DeMarco [00:17:42]:

The spike, the the dick pic to me, seems like it would be great on a worksite. Maybe even more than the quill. I love the quill, and it is. a jack of every tray. You can do anything with this. But just in looking at at the at the at the dick pic right there, you can also open a can of paint with that, which you cannot do with this. I've tried. Yeah. We've had customers lift the floor tiles, doing floor stall installation,

Zac Wingard [00:18:07]:

you know, marking, especially marking holes for drilling and stuff like that, you know, like, doing scribing type motions for measurements. Right. It it's pretty amazing what our customers have come back to us with. And, you know, that's just one of those things. Like, if you're the designer and you're thinking like, oh, I'm gonna come up with this thing. It's gonna be a weapon. Weapons are really, really ish. You know? It's fortunate that it's rare to need a weapon, but it needs to be capable of a lot of adjacent possibilities and we're both Our quills and our our dick picks, no matter the size, they have them. The spike is just basically like a super finger. It's it's could be as at least as long as your finger and it's thinner and it's stronger and it's harder and it can be used to do all those things you're doing with your fingers every like scraping and poking and piercing and tearing only better. And it pairs all of the knife. Right? Oh, yeah. So --

Bob DeMarco [00:19:04]:

Let me see the first, let's see the carry for the regular regular dick pic, the the kydex carry. And then show us the magnum and what you went through to come up with the carry system for the magnum.

Zac Wingard [00:19:19]:

Alright. So this is the Dick pick carry system. So it consists of a taco style sheet, and you can fit the dick pick in in either orientation. And it's got four eyelet on top and 2 on the bottom at got sort of a hook like feature too. So if you wear this inside the pocket, it kinda catches as you draw it, but it's also got these shock port tethers to strong alligator plants. You can clip the clothing. So it's intended to be worn, like, tucked into your pants above your groin with with this above the belt can just easily access it. So you can wear a pocket carry. And if you don't like the elastic and the strong alligator plants, you can just Cut that off, throw it away, and get it in the aftermarket carry system like the UltiClip or discrete theory concepts clips, and put that hardware on there. make sure the pilot gaps were a space like that. And the microdictic is the exact same concept just scaled out, right, it's smaller, like, fewer mileage, shorter size. Right? And these are great. Like, HIDEX is a fantastic material for civilia contacts. And I have learned to white or tolerate working with KaiX that used to hate it. But it's like he got in the poster oven at, like, 300 to 400 degrees. He got this big wide temperature range where tightness gets soft. You can take it out. And as soon as you take it out of the oven and set it around the part, the mold, put it in the press, I mean, is dropping temperature super fast. Right? But it's still malleable. Right? It's got this huge range of temperatures where it's nice and valuable. But, you know, when we start down the road for the dick pic Magnum, it was like, hey. You know, this is kinda it's for civilians, first responders, that sort of thing. But it's also, you know, we want if a soldier feels like they need such things to take into battle. They they can buy it, you know, and use it. And I reached out to a point of contact friend of mine who works in a soldier or a quick thing and that sort of thing. And he's like, hey, can't use Kydex or elastics because of the temperature extremes, because the US military or any military has to be able to fight in a huge range of combat environments from. I think they do most of their testing of most anything at negative 65 degrees Fahrenheit. Wow. And then they go all the way up to, like, a 140 degrees Fahrenheit. And so, if you look at that temperature range, there's not many plastics that do well, and especially KIDEX, at temperatures at around, I think, a negative 20 degrees Fahrenheit. When you subject your KIDAC sheet to load, it will brittle fracture fail. It won't have like, right now, I can do some light bending and I'm bending it here. You can barely see it, but it's got flexing. Well, that flex goes away because the colder it gets the harder and more brittle it gets. and KIDEX is very similar like PVC, and PVC has all kinds of problems at cold temperature. And people might think negative 65 degrees, that's never gonna happen. what it has. And actually, in the Korean wire, I'm off this printout setting. It was a trying to remember the reservoir that they add on. big battle line. It was down at EGA 35 in my script. And soldiers, you know, aren't like, for us, we can wear even if we're walking around outside and it's like maybe a 35 degrees Fahrenheit, you're bundled up, you're wearing layers and guess where your KIDEX equipment up against your body under those layers. Yeah. It's harder to access and still access it, and it's kept warmest. you know, you're outside in that environment of that temperature but the Kydex isn't. We're in a close to your body. Well, a soldier could be wearing this on their path. or outside on their plate here to be exposed to the elements. And if there's, like, sudden incoming artillery or other reasons, they may have to hit the dirt, laying on a rock. you know, the kydex shatters. So what we did is, you know, we were like, well, what are you what are you guys using for sheets and pollsters and stuff? It's not KIDEX. This shows how little we knew about it. Right? And, you know, the reply back was layered textiles. and also polyethylene. And polyethylene is common at many aspects. One of the things that we were able to source was polyethylene tube to fit the dick pic Magnum that was used in irrigation. irrigation has to be used, irrigation to across huge temperature ranges. Like, you got, you know, you could have a record cold front temperature out in the Midwest and some farming could go, you know, well below 20 degrees below 0. and the irrigation tubing's got hold on, and so we found irrigation tubing that fit very well as a stiffener element and then we surrounded it, and tech stop, Billspec, nylon, and that required investing. Thus also a machine that was very expensive. But it I think that'll be a good capability for the business because, yeah, we did invest in that for the dick pick matchup. scabbers, but I think we're not be able to do a lot more stuff with this sort. Oh, yeah. Especially if you aim to make, you know, more and more implements

Bob DeMarco [00:24:45]:

As time goes on, that's that are military or first responder relevant. Like, I I I have a friend who used to be a firefighter And when I was making knives in my shed a little more than I have been the past couple of years, I was trying to design them a knife, and I had no idea how to you know, I knew how how low the temperatures were just to cook the kydex, get it ready. I had no idea what sheath to make for him, and then the whole project fell apart anyway. But but it it occurred to me. It can't be kydex. It'll it'll soften up before you even walk through the door. Yeah. I didn't think about that. And and, Pauley, I thought I may do that too because, I mean,

Zac Wingard [00:25:27]:

everything's got an all temperature. But I mean, you know, someone must call me the other day. You mentioned in front of us used to be a firefight. I think there was someone making knife shields out of old fire hose. you know, is interesting. So that's like one of those things where textiles of their fire resistant, heat resistant, and, you know, cool resistant. You know, they're gonna do better than leather and potentially KIDEX, but just that's a learning curve for us. So, we're able to get away with it with the dick pic Magnum because the dick pic Magnum is a fairly simple shape. It's like a uniform thinness to the point where we could just get 2, we could source commercial off the shelf 2 to act as a stiff core of this and then sew around A knife is gonna be trickier. I've got ideas for it, but a knife, you know, across those temperature ranges. That's gonna be tricky. because the knife shape is so much more complex than knife could be of any shape. It's probably not gonna be in a tube. You know? Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:26:24]:

So Well, the the Filipinos used to use wood. Maybe maybe we'll we'll circle all the way back. Wood will burn a fire.

Zac Wingard [00:26:32]:

Oh, yeah. That's right. That's right. That's I hadn't thought about that. know, I I fire firefighters'

Bob DeMarco [00:26:39]:

knife scam if that's an interesting idea. So it with with all of the things you make, I have oh, I have just a few of them right here. You have an interesting process. You know, just looking at at the dick pic Magnum Scabbard and knowing that you sourced and and your wife does a a good bit of this work with you too. She did the going. Yeah. Okay. So this is this is a this is a whole other just like with with every new thing you design, you you're learning a new skill set. I I know that with the Tomahawks and I'm thinking especially of the stingray, and you you put up a cool video the other day, maybe just yesterday, of you setting the head on the shaft, which is not just a flop it on there and pound it on, you're you're making sure that the grooves and the and the long sort of flanges that are inside to grip the you're making sure it's all lined up and you're pounding it on both sides and it's a it's a meticulous process. And then you're also learning how to shape, and I tried throwing it.

Zac Wingard [00:27:46]:

Help. Yeah. I'm very much. That's it. Yeah. Learning how to shape and,

Bob DeMarco [00:27:51]:

you know, and work these woods every it seems like every new project, you learn a new skill. Yeah. Is is would you say that that's accurate and and working on these these magnums? Has it been more than just the sheet?

Zac Wingard [00:28:05]:

Yeah. I mean, I I would say we always strike the light. Apply new things that we learn to a new product and also be willing to learn new things. With the magnum, we hadn't done anything with 1075 steel before. And so with the black foot that we're working with, you know, there was a bit of a learning curve on making that twist so that it would be a predictable even though it's done by hand. a predictable angle, and we had to change the water jet cutting part that we originated with to make that process easier of like doing the twist. So, I mean, there's all sorts of little subtle things that you learn about that you don't really think about going in. But if it is like a whole new skill set, like for instance, the SCabbard in an industrial sewing machine, that sort of thing. then, you know, the dick pic magnum, which may wind up being a very niche ball. Right? It's rather big dick pic. you know, it may wind up enabling future product lines because of what we learn from. You know, it's like each product that you go through the development process on. you kinda get more powerful. Even if you learned things that didn't work, right, it's still those memories are in your mind so that we can adopt a new product. you get more powerful. You know what I mean? It's sort of like a brainpower, experience power type thing. But, yeah, it's fascinating to see it, you know, and I'm just excited about the future. But the dick big magnum is today. unfortunately. But we are -- Fortunately. Well, fortunately, I guess. But we are like, we didn't make I think we made about Who does none of them? because it was like, how many of these are we gonna sell? I don't know. We don't do our own market research. Just two dozen of, you know, 12 inch long dickpicks sound like a lot to you. I don't know. It's not like a lot to us because this is expensive. These are the most expensive large parts you ever had May, but you know, seeing them sell out at 25 hours were just so thankful for our customers, but it's encouraging. It's like, alright, We're gonna invest in a second batch, and it's gonna be bigger. And we'll not see how it goes. That was that was 1 per hour with a with a rest period in there for lunch. or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Bob DeMarco [00:30:27]:

Oh, yeah. So I wanna I wanna move on because we have something also exciting to talk about. But before we do a couple of things, First of all, every time you hold up the magnum to me, it reminds me of a piece of World War 2 kit just because of the way the sheet looks, even with the grommets,

Zac Wingard [00:30:43]:

I love the -- Yeah. And that middle spec nylon -- I I kinda hate to look at KIDEX. KIDEX is wonderful, but when I look at, like, this sheath -- Yeah. -- you know -- Mhmm. -- versus KIDEX. It's just that this just feels better to me by the eye and in the hand. My KIDEX is is and I do the KIDEX sheets by hand free hand. That's all me, and I'm covered in, like, black dust and stuff. but, like, they work. They work really well. But, yeah, this just it feels like yeah, World War 2. Like, you know -- I got that. -- and it took a lot longer to make up, like, with the guidance. That's just one of the things. You know? And it's not just us learning it, but it was like, you know, it took it took a lot longer. So -- But maybe it will last a lot longer too, maybe. Oh, yeah. It definitely will. Absolutely.

Bob DeMarco [00:31:36]:

So I wanna move on to some exciting stuff, but as we do, I just wanna I just wanna show my Wingard wearable stuff just so that if anyone out there doesn't really know what we're talking about, because you haven't seen the last three times he's been with us. I I have your war club. I love this thing. This is the thumper, and and it's tested. This is obliterated a coconut. Hey. A oil battle to Amazon. Yeah. Yeah. No problem. And I also did the jute wrap there just to to Oh, I like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Little purchase. I have, as I showed you, the quill, also with a little bit of jute, on there. Just fills it out a little better for my skinny fingers. And then I have this 3 tomahawks that I love, the back ripper. which sits right here on my desk in case anyone, you know, comes in while I'm doing a podcast. I can take care of them. This one is is my dresser Tomahawk, and then this one is right next to the bed with a bunch of other stuff. But this this is my this is my nighttime disinvolvement tool. Sorry. That's a terrible word.

Zac Wingard [00:32:41]:

Yeah. You yeah. You patch them off. You'll call for you'll give them Thursday. Yeah. Exactly.

Bob DeMarco [00:32:47]:

So I if you hadn't guessed, you know, I really love these Wingard Wearables I I think they're creative and interesting, but I also just have a real thing for Tomahawks. And and you definitely encouraged some of that when talking about the the Northeast woodland period last time we spoke her a couple of times ago. And all of this is very exciting to me, but you have some even more exciting news, and please let us know.

Zac Wingard [00:33:15]:

Oh, boy. You know, knife junky. Wingard wearables have been at what since 2018, and we got this finally, this new product. It's a knife. Oh, yeah. So I'm I'm gonna have to I'm not sure because I'm tethered to a very short leash here -- Okay. -- to the connection. I'm gonna try I'm gonna make noise. You're gonna see my glorious midsection. Okay. So don't body shame me. I'm lost

Bob DeMarco [00:33:43]:

Oh, here we go. Here we go. No nobody shaving on the knife jumping podcast. We're all -- That's right. Oh my goodness.

Zac Wingard [00:33:51]:

So It is you did so this is called well, we don't have a good name for you. I wanna call this the tusk knife Right? Yeah. Because it's kinda shaped like a a cusp. Yeah. Like, I am the walrus.

Bob DeMarco [00:34:09]:

Yeah. I don't know.

Zac Wingard [00:34:11]:

And so, you know, the other couple weeks ago, you did, like, a a podcast about knives you wore scouts carry across your appendix. Right? Yep. So you're wearing them sideways. Right? Right. And and I think you said that the minimum link the maximum length you can wear comfortably was, what, 8 inches?

Bob DeMarco [00:34:34]:

Yes. Yep.

Announcer [00:34:36]:

11 inches.

Zac Wingard [00:34:38]:

That's that's one of the reasons for the curve. is think your alright. Everyone who's listening to this. Close your eyes and have a mental image of Your body. Okay? Topless. Your eyes are nipples. Your navel is a nose. The toss knife is the smiley face. It's worn we're calling it a toss knife. Remember? It's worn, like, under your your kind of belly area. around the waistline. Curved. Right? And so that that curve, that curved spine, and also the curve rest of the ball, follows the contour of your body. Someone put it back up chief. Woah. And you can sit with it? All day in it, you have to remember that you're wearing it. This is kind of important because you're wearing a big knife. Right? And you got sometimes you gotta remember. it's you know, a big knife is is a big knife. And so it the carry system, it so the KIDEX is also curved. Right? And so you got all these islet space and they're going to be I'm not showing it here, but there are 2 discrete carry concepts clips at angles along this and you can change the placements of them. It's kind of Ranger bands on. But that's what clips said to your waistline. Alright? And I've worn this just in boxer briefs. I've worn this in shorts, like swimming trucks. I've worn this in my pants I'm wearing out. Very comfortable because of that. Curve. Now, we are working with a collaboration with Tate Buzzard of the Norman Tactical. He's out in Arizona. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so this is a design we've been working with Kate over a year. This has been in the works since so he has a you know, we've got the knife blanks large as cut. but he is freehand ground these. So it's got a These are 3 16th thick blade stock. It's got a flat grind. And, yeah, it's it's big and curved. You know, Scott, this is interesting here, a coke bottle of gravel you went with. And so there isn't a coil or a guard because it really -- Yeah. -- you you might be able to get away with the coil, but then you thin down the material, which is a stress concentrated. but with a guard, I mean, that's gonna run into everything here. Alright? Yeah. So we have been testing this primarily with ergonomics. but it's like one of the things that we're doing next so we did some initial test fluid that was encouraging was up. short what I call a grip slip test because we've never done a night before. Right? Yeah. Like, with our Tom Hawks, we got Tomahawk. Right? I've got a long handle, and the sharp I'm gripping it like here. Right? The blade that can cut me is pretty far away. Like with the empress, the blade actually comes to the handle. Right? So you should not choke up on this and hit things with it. but, you know, with the stingray or with most other Tomahawks, you know, you can choke up with it, and you aren't on the blade. Right? There isn't really a grip slip, self injury concern, you know, of your hand sliding up the handle of Tom Box. But with every knife, it doesn't matter if it's a folding knife or a knife with a guard or a chil, if you were to forcefully hit something really hard with the point with this hand in your grip that's loose, you could slide up and either slam into the guard, which could injure you. or, you know, slide over the coil and then go off the blade. So one of the things that we're doing is testing We got one of these made without an etch and with a chisel tip. So I could safely stab this into a tree different stabbing orientations and test like, Hey, would that smooth my car to? It feel it looks smooth. It actually has enough. texture to it. Will my hands slip up on the blade? And this is sort of a test just to see, you know, how safe this design is. Of course, those tests are pertaining to be my hand. I'm like, you're ninety or forty years old. I got fairly grippy hands. You know? but testing it with dry grip, with wet grip. The next test we're gonna do, we're coating it with mineral oil, which simulates, you know, real either blood or really greasy. Like, I've cut up chicken carbon with this, like, with mine that I'm wearing it now. you know, I've used this in the kitchen a bunch which is why it's got the sort of, like, little patina to it. But, you know, if you're, like, one of the things I discovered, you know, using this prototype was The reverse grip is actually really good for, like, kitchen type cutting tabs. Oh, yeah. But, yeah, your hands get really greasy with a cooked chicken. you know, if you're carving it up, it's like, it's not that you're then forcefully stabbing the chicken. Right? But I just wanna do my due diligence here to test this like, hey, in that coat ball shape, it seems to be pretty promising, but are we gonna add grooves to it, you know, for extra texture or not? I don't know. So this is not final, but it's coming out hopefully this year, and it's about 11 inches long with a 7 inch plate. And It's 80 CRV 2 is what we're starting with. We may go to ABL

Bob DeMarco [00:39:58]:

later, but I'll stop by. Okay. You gotta let me give you some impressions. I'm I'm really interested and psyched about this because I've been wondering how are you gonna make a Wingard Wearables knife? And, of course, I saw the curve going against the flat of the blade, this makes a lot of sense. And and -- It does. Good. Good. And so and and I'll tell you why. because of this recent move to appendix carry, I'm very aware of like like, for instance, here's a knife This is a great knife. This is auxiliary manufacturing pocket rocket. This is a great appendix carry because the sheath is relatively shallow. The handle is relatively small. And so when I'm sitting down, you know, it's not interfering with anything, and it's it's like, I I don't even know it's there even when I'm even when I'm driving. And so when I was looking at yours, would that curve that very obviously sits right below the mail or any anyone's belly, but it but, you know, we we males have that prominent belly, and it and it It still goes in the same place, but it's curving out of the way to be trouble. Yep.

Zac Wingard [00:41:10]:

That's that's the same thing we did. with our micro pipe. You know? Yeah. But -- Except this was a thrust centric thing. Yeah. Now it's got the blade hole. I'll stop people shut up. No. No. No. You don't have to set up. But what I was thinking the way the the micropike

Bob DeMarco [00:41:24]:

is the flat is the curved part. Or You know what I'm trying to say? Yep. I was thinking it would be similar with the knife, and I have seen that, but only in art knives for for, you know, for effect. not for usage. And I was like, how is he gonna make that work? And I I started going along with that assumption. This reminds me of a Middle Eastern, you know, like a con jar or something. And and okay. Lots of things here. This is begging for a double edged version or a bayonet version. Oh, double

Zac Wingard [00:41:56]:

we we wanna I'm nervous about that because the tip. Oh, double edge. I mean, I like a strong tip. You know? And I'm like, if I if I double edge it, that's gonna be a weaker tip. Right? I know bay and neck rides could be pretty strong, though. Doesn't have to be, like, a big, like, a a a high bevel.

Bob DeMarco [00:42:14]:

Exactly. Exactly. The the back bevel can be just a steep tearing gouging split -- Yeah. -- kind of thing. -- if you're doing this edge up

Zac Wingard [00:42:23]:

type thing, like, the bluey knife? Yes. Right. Like, this right now would would be unpleasant. hit the 10th, that'd be kind of less lethal -- Yeah. -- like rating. But, yeah, if they had a a little edge on it. So that may be a a gen 2 maybe.

Bob DeMarco [00:42:38]:

So but I really like this. The the curve really man, I gotta say it really make sense the way it goes under, and then and then you've got a small handle, which is another thing that's very important. For me personally, in my daily fixed blade carry because it's always almost always under a shirt. And you've got everything rounded, which is nice because -- Oh, yeah. If it's up against the skin, which frequently it is, you know, you want it to be nice and round. This is really -- So a -- -- something.

Zac Wingard [00:43:11]:

So the inspiration I have from this, there is a political cartoon rip made in 1812. So it was in America, American political cargoes. If you can imagine political cargoes from, like, that long ago, they were force awful. but it was depicted Britain basically buying scouts from Native America, so it's not folks. woke to fiction. But that political cartoon inspired helped inspire partly the stingray Tomahawk, because the the the 2 Native American warriors they showed carry Tomahawks that were you could see similar to the space in 1, even though it was a a cartoonist in in 18 twelves, like, imagination. And then the scalping knives they were and the wobblymus carrying is super curve, and there's another depiction of a scalping. where a a warrior has this and his teeth as he pull on the scalp off someone's head. It's also super hurt. Yet, Adam, probably hundreds of scalping knives that have found either in collections or in, like, sites and stuff. None of them are curved like this. Mhmm. They were often written in descriptions as curve. I think that cartoonist was like, oh, they had curve knives in droop. head like this. But they always had straight spots on them. And so, yeah, this I'm not really sure, like you'd mentioned, What was the type of dagger that this from idea of Middle East? Conjur. Ken Condur. I'm about to look that up to to see because I'm also thinking, like, Jim Baya, if this was double as the

Bob DeMarco [00:44:57]:

Jambaya. Yeah. That too. That has a real extreme curve. Right? That is.

Zac Wingard [00:45:02]:

But, you know, we kinda got it. That was sort of the spark of a match nation that led us down the sort of ergonomics design path. But, you know, now that it's made its flight, you know, in the kitchen, it does alright. You know? And and camping tasks are not the point of a butcher or a, you know, a big bushcraft guy. But, you know, what we've been putting it through so far is doing well. I wouldn't recommend I absolutely would not throw this knife. Mhmm. It's not for throwing. And I I not a fan of the taunting. I think you used like, something like a dick pic, you know, to baton into something in private. You sound really stout. I I I look at this as more of a meat processing knife and probably, we're gotta do more testing with wood, but some wood processing One of the things here, we didn't want just make a big knife for the sake of making a big knife. We want that length so that if you're wearing, like, I think a thick leather or other fabric around the tip, you could then use this like a draw knife. Alright? Pulling the blade towards you, or and we kept the spine at heat at a sharp 90 degree edge, use it for scraping out handles, that sort of thing. So we wanted that length, not just for length. you know, which is good, you know, in combatives, you know, and also for some practicality purposes like a big knife that do small knife things. That's why you know, tension knife that the knife can use the most is the big one. Right? Yeah. But, you know, we also want to enable some the bushcraft type test. Now, I'm not gonna advocate that. I'm gonna do some more testing, but what little testing I've done? Like, I process comma handles, you know, doing like several layers of leather grippingness, you know, you gotta be careful of course, but I do think there's something to this concept that seems promising. We've got the first batch flight. Aid air quotes. I'm saying, aid air quotes. I gotta do that grip slip test to the side. You if what the final texture's gonna be. You know? But we're probably not gonna launch it on the first batch because we got you know, I think we got, like, 10 days of storms couple of them through the area, which isn't ideal for walking around and doing bushcraft stuff and stabbing trees. we're gonna have to kinda wait for the weather to clear up the new forecast and decide, you know, what's that final cribs. I'll talk about that. I was just about to ask you. You gotta stop saying that. Everything you're saying is is gold, my man.

Bob DeMarco [00:47:34]:

But I was gonna say What besides the ergonomics that are really helping you out to make this a wearable knife what were the other uses of the curve, but you you just enumerated some of them. Also, in terms of a weapon, what do you think the benefit of that curve is?

Zac Wingard [00:47:57]:

So if you when my granddad was in World War 2, he told me how he was taught, knife fighting Cabatas, and you know, they were caught with something that looked a lot like a cable. It was point forward and hammer grip. Edge up. And so it was a heave ho stab at rip. It was sort of like some historic Mexican knife fighting styles and movie night fighting styles were done that way. And so it with that curve, when you grip it like this, and the heel of the blade is really in the ulnar in quite well. See if I can. I'm just I'm making this worse. See, you know, it's like camera left camera right. You know what I'm saying? I I'm I'm old. I gotta stay in frame here. Right? Yeah. The the -- -- all those ported. But it's really in there well. Alright? because it's it's basically that short handle with a rounded butt is sitting in your palm, in your pinch shape. and that coke bottle broke here, right, and rattle. Right? So you got a point for it. It's actually really align well for accurate thrust. If you choose to do it upward trip, fine. and you could use this the the back of the spine for, you know, sort of hooking type tasks in Cabatos. But with one simple turn, Let me see if I can illustrate this. Right? Look how far that tip move with one whole motion in the heat. All I did was shifted the angle of my wrist and just turn. And I think I I love say the wrong number, but I think it moved the tip like 16 or 18 inches. Yeah. And so in combatives, if you're transitioning from bar range, like, I'm trying to, like, keep distance. It's a close range, like, even grappling range. You're able with that curve if you could imagine on in graphite rings -- Mhmm. -- right there, we are hugging each other. That curve can definitely go into the back or go around bones and things like that that you normally can't do with a straight blade knife where you're not. be really trying to get their awkward angles to get that in. So that's where I see this in Nevada is also Michael Janich, you know, he's big into the biomechanical

Announcer [00:50:17]:

-- Mhmm. -- in capacitation.

Zac Wingard [00:50:19]:

I do not see this is not like a spike like Big Bag Magna, you know, kernayanka pass a solid pass, you know, put it into the back of the brain. Right? It's a big rigid spike. It's super stiff. This is meant to seek flesh. This is a single edge knife. I wasn't hating on single edge knives when I talked about the earlier some of the challenges. Yeah. but this is not a big belly single edge. Now, if I don't describe it as big belly, it's quite a flinty tip. It's very curved. but it's quite static. We have tested this on layered fabrics like, I'm not saying Kevlar, but we did, like, layer shirting fabric and denim, and it had no problem slashing through it, like, slashing. Oh, yeah. And stamp and the slats has got big draw cuts if you're talking about targeting upper extremities, which, I mean, I'm not gonna call that less lethal, but that is a biomechanical incapacitation. I That's where I see this knife really potentially shining, is it you know, not getting caught up on a phone, but sliding off and using that phone as sort of the cutting board and sliding from one attack, like slipping off the ball to other that sort of thing. See that as really one of the benefits and commands as a slasher, although it can be used in a point. But in, you know, bushcraft, the fieldcraft, even kitchen camping pass, this reverse edge is quite good. for that. It really aligns well with the table, which is interesting. So stop stop stop. I see that curve

Bob DeMarco [00:51:53]:

really great for these sort of outside thrusts, you know, where they're coming -- Absolutely. -- they're coming like this or like this or from down below or or over top, like, the kind of dis -- -- transitioning from a a flash to know, coming on over. Yep.

Zac Wingard [00:52:08]:

Absolutely.

Bob DeMarco [00:52:09]:

Because it's so it's you know? And and it just sort of follows the natural arc of your of your look at how easily that fits in. And and the handle seems to, like, one thing I really like about this appendix carry is it's keeping me a little bit more honest. When I when I carried my knife over here at 3 o'clock, 4 o'clock, I could kind of, like, like, avoid feeling my love handle over here. But up front in appendix, you're just crushing by it all the time. Oh, yeah. I'm I'm, like, I I feel the flap. Yeah. I gotta lose £40.

Zac Wingard [00:52:44]:

because eventually, I got, like, that that North man movie I never I think I saw it. It was super unpleasant, but it was like -- I loved it. -- I got I got to be my own Viking model. I got 1st out of the frigid waters dual wielding axis you know, nipples out, but it's like, you can't do that right now. So I'm like, no one wants to see that. Dude, that's a high bar to set. That's great. It is. I gotta lose a lot, but you know, is is really comfortable here. Yeah. And, you know, your angle may be different, and that's why we have some AI less. You know? So you have space set out. Now, obviously, you could pick the wrong angle where you just draw this thing and it cuts your waste bin. Right? You gotta avoid that. Right. See, yeah, pick the right angle that works for you. For me, I think it's like pin to, like, here, basically. and then your pants is going over the top, so the the handle is open. Now I'd like to keep my shirt tucked in, you know, so I could access things more quickly. But it is very discreet, and it you just you don't feel it. It's just the wackiest thing.

Bob DeMarco [00:53:45]:

Not yeah. That can be an issue though. Now that I'm thinking about my double edged request, if you are drawing a knife like that. Like, the call style knives, if you carry them in your waistband, you gotta be careful about -- Yep. -- which way you're pulling them out. So it's gonna be single edge certainly for the 1st

Zac Wingard [00:54:03]:

batch or several. I'll have to think about double edge. And, I mean, down the road, I mean, we see this super curved shape. Like, I'm talking, like, years down the road I can see a family of knives based on it. So it doesn't have to be shaped by that. It could be a blue knight or other thing, but, like, really curve Yeah. I think we're gonna explore that more. Actually, we are exploring that more sketched up some concepts, but it's just gonna take so long because this is like Over a year, we've been working on this, and I have been having nightmares about waking up in some other nightmare, coincidentally, coming out with this. because it would take so long. You know? And when -- Yeah. -- we're still we're talking about it. It's not out yet. You know, it's gonna be weeks, maybe months, You know? We don't even have a name for it. Like, I I type in Tusk knife in Google. There's, like, 14 different knives named Tusk. it's not as bad as googling dick pic. Right? Right. Right. Yeah. -- problematic as that. You gotta be a great fan to Google image. search dick pic. Yeah. Yeah. That's -- But, you know, tusk knife is like there's a lot, but it looks like a tusk. You know? It's like all these other knives named tusk don't look like a tusk. You know? This looks like exactly a tusk profile. They don't deserve the moniker. Yeah. It's -- I know. So we may hold a naming contest or something because it's like, I don't wanna need where a bunch of people are confused. Like, they hear about us, like, the type it in. It's like, who knows? I don't know. But knife naming is tough. If we do a naming contest, you know, it's it's been a harder years to make, expensive. It's so in machine. Yeah. You know, So we're not gonna have a grant prize. It'll probably be one of our wonderful T shirts, which are very nice. I was wearing mine earlier today, but they got dirty at work. So I know I actually shower I showered for you, Bob. Ah, thank you. I had to put on a you know? So, anyway, we may hold a name in contest, and you may win a t shirt and the t shirt looks great. It's got a man's hand with a dick pic going through it. That is a cool t shirt. -- bodily fluids. I mean, you got a wholesome t shirt right there. Alright. Let's let's bring this all back. You you mentioned the dick pic, and that that is a very cool t shirt. I do need to get myself 1, and I know my -- -- win it. It you win the night night gaming contest, if you do that.

Bob DeMarco [00:56:24]:

So I I wanna bring it back full circle to the the magnum dick pic. I First of all, thank you so much for showing off the knife here. I think maybe for the first time -- It's exclusive.

Zac Wingard [00:56:34]:

You guys got the -- I am Stope. I am gonna applaud the the show when I go on Instagram. When does this show come out?

Bob DeMarco [00:56:41]:

I believe this will come out on on this coming Sunday. and I will tell you the date after after -- So whenever that's coming Sunday, I'll plug it, and I'll be, like, exclusive.

Zac Wingard [00:56:51]:

You wanna see what the knife looks like? Oh, man. You know, okay. And the few people at CRO post will will come right to your podcast. We don't have that many people that see it. Damn. That's another.

Bob DeMarco [00:57:04]:

I I want you to I want you to relate story you were telling me before we started rolling without you know, without going into whatever detail, but how you actually used this magnum tool, not for combat, not for anything but for a very practical use.

Zac Wingard [00:57:23]:

So, yeah, I basically was having to dig through I was using it to probe and bust apart, rubberized rubbles. It was just a a bunch of bits of rubber that were convince. It was a day job related, dirty task. It was just so condensed that you couldn't break it apart, hitting it with a rake, with a shovel because it was like, bits of rubber that were compressed with a big ball. Wow. And so when you hit it with like a mallet or a rake, or whatever. It just kinda bounced off because it was it was really dense, but it was also a little give to it. So using that dick pic with two hands just like the like slam on that point in it or, you know, striking with two hands and getting that chisel, that pry bar chisel in that raking. at prime. You know, I was able to bust chunks off this thing. And so, you know, it was one of those things where you you use the tool they had on you, and it worked. And so, yeah, you know, it did pick magnum. also good for trash picking up, you know -- Yeah. -- on that. And, yeah, I mean, it is large. You can With the right pants selection, you can wear it inside the waistband light. So above the groin, obviously, I got deep a flip because I've got a tough knife. Yeah. But it is compatible with those aftermarket carry systems. So you can carry it, but it is a lot. It is you know, the dick pick, full size is not being probably the more practical option for vast majority of people. But if you got any big crying cast,

Bob DeMarco [00:59:03]:

you know, big piercing cast, big probing cast. Yeah. Get the magnum. Get the magnum. I need to get my hands on the on the regular full size. I think that's the one that fits my lifestyle currently.

Zac Wingard [00:59:14]:

That's right. But we can still talk about the math. Oh, yeah. It's still fun. Hammering tasks. It does work. So if you can grip it right on those facets there, use it for hammering, percussive frying, busted apart pallets with it, it's pretty fun.

Bob DeMarco [00:59:29]:

Zach always coming up with really cool, creative, useful, and weapony interesting things. Thank you so much for coming again on the Night junky podcast. Thank you for having me, but it's always been great. Always a pleasure. And thank you thank you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for using this platform to show off your new tough. Thank you for giving a platform. I am. I'm totally psyched. Alrighty, sir. I thank you. Take care.

Zac Wingard [00:59:54]:

Bye.

Announcer [00:59:55]:

Don't take dull for an answer. It's the knife junkie's favorite sign off phrase, and now you can get that tagline on a variety of merchandise. Like a t shirt, sweatshirt, hoodie, long sleeve tee, and more, even on coasters, tote bags, a coffee mug, water bottle, and stickers. Let everyone know that you're a knife junkie and that you don't take dough for an answer. Get yours at the knifejunkie.com/dough. and shop for all of your life junkies merchandise at thelifejunky.com/shop.

Bob DeMarco [01:00:27]:

There he goes, ladies and gentlemen, Zach Wingard of Wingard Wearables Yep. You saw it here exclusive. He showed off his knife here, tusk. We're not sure. You know? But It does look like a tusk. And you know what? There are plenty of knives out there. I know there are a couple of knives out there called the Victor. I know there are a couple of knives out there called Well, there are a bunch of knives out there with double names, Sofia, like Tufts, Zach. Hold on to it. Be sure to join us next week for another great interview, and, of course, Thursday night knives on Thursday where we just kick back and chat knives. So your wives, girlfriends, and significant others don't have to hear it. For Jim, Morgan is magic behind the switcher. My name is Bob DeMarco. Until next time, Don't take dull for an answer!

Announcer [01:01:12]:

Thanks for listening to the 9th Junky podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please rate and review it review the podcast .com. For show notes for today's episode, additional resources and to listen to past episodes, visit our website, the knifejunkie.com. You can also watch our latest videos on youtube at the knifejunkie.com/YouTube. Check out some great night photos on the knifejunkiedot com slash Instagram, and join our Facebook group at the knifejunkie.com/facebook. And if you have a question or comment, Email them to bob at the knifejunkie.com or call our 247 listener line at 7244-664 8:7, and you may hear your comment or question answered on an upcoming episode of The Knife Junkie podcast.