The Knife Junkie Podcast is the place for knife newbies and knife junkies to learn about knives and knife collecting. Twice per week Bob DeMarco talks knives. Email Bob at theknifejunkie@gmail.com; visit https://theknifejunkie.com.
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[00:00:00] Announcer: Welcome to the Knife Junkie Podcast, your weekly dose of knife news and information about knives and knife collecting. Here's your host, Bob the Knife Junkie DeMarco.

[00:00:19] Bob DeMarco: Welcome to the Knife Junkie Podcast. I'm Bob DeMarco. On this edition of the show, I'm speaking with custom knife maker, Joe Watson. I had the good fortune of meeting Joe at Blade [00:00:30] Show 2024, where I could bend his ear for a while, and I got a chance to heft a few of his beautiful, and I don't use this word lightly, iconic fighting knives.

[00:00:41] Bob DeMarco: You see, Joe Watson's knives were some of the first I became aware of when I started considering fighting fixed blades for everyday carry or concealed carry. There are also some of the first knives that got me to reconsider traditionally wrapped handles, as I had dismissed the concept with the paracord wrap handle trend.

[00:00:59] Bob DeMarco: His [00:01:00] knives are as ultra refined and labored over as they are mean, lean, and nasty. So we'll talk with Joe about his career in knives and how he got here. But first, be sure to like, comment, subscribe, hit the notification bell, and share the show with a friend. Also, if you're interested, you can go check us out on Patreon.

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[00:01:48] Bob DeMarco: Joe, welcome to the show, sir. Hey, Bob. Thank you for having me. Oh, it's my pleasure. Um, yeah, it was great to meet you at blade show, especially after a few years of just kind of [00:02:00] admiring your knives from afar, uh, uh, do

[00:02:03] Joe Watson: you go to blade show every year? Typically I have some where it's just not in the cards where it's either I got other work stuff going on or my problem is, is always like making enough stuff.

[00:02:14] Joe Watson: So of course, you know, you go out there, you gotta hopefully get enough to at least break even. Um, but yeah, I, I try to, there's, there's definitely typically like more years I make it than not.

[00:02:27] Bob DeMarco: Yeah. And you were sandwiched between some [00:02:30] pretty, uh, cool makers this year and, uh, And I know that they're a part of your, your, uh, your little crew, but, um, I want to get into, uh, you posted just the other day, uh, an incredible Chris blade.

[00:02:42] Bob DeMarco: We're not going to show that right now. We're going to, we're going to save that for a minute. Um, but that is one of my absolute favorites. You have a real, um, I don't know, a real refined touch and a Chris blade is a very. Uh difficult thing to make but before we get there I want to get a little bit of [00:03:00] background on you Now, I know you were in the military and you've done a lot of security stuff Tell me about that.

[00:03:06] Joe Watson: Yeah, I went in 17 like right out of high school Kind of better or worse just everything going on with the war and I was you know Watching the movies reading the books and just kind of the idea of some some adventure mischief like the Brotherhood Stuff you see in the movies. I bought into all of it and you know got in as soon as I could [00:03:30] Yeah, and that was a period where you know Knife stuff was kind of as a whole, just, you know.

[00:03:37] Joe Watson: With the deployments and training and being gone, it's hard to have like a full fledged knife shop you can go to on a regular basis. But I started learning, you know, how to do a lot with very little. Sometimes I'd go around with, you know, hand tools and like a shoe box size container or little like cheap bench grinders.

[00:03:58] Joe Watson: And one by 30 [00:04:00] belt sanders and things like that. So that that period of time it was much more, um, like modifying existing knives, um, changing up handles, uh, reprofiling blades and then The kydex was a big part. I feel like I got a feel for that way faster than anything steel related. And it was sheets and a lot of pistol holsters and mag pouches at the time.

[00:04:27] Joe Watson: Cause now we're, we're in the golden era of [00:04:30] everything gear wise. There is so much stuff out there that if you're new to it, it's probably hard to figure out what's what, but even, you know, 15, 20 years ago, there wasn't nearly the. the quality and the selection of stuff out there.

[00:04:46] Bob DeMarco: So, uh, are you saying that you were making knives before, before 17, before you actually enlisted?

[00:04:53] Bob DeMarco: Yeah,

[00:04:53] Joe Watson: probably like 15, 16 was when I made my first one. Um, my mom had taken [00:05:00] me to this Renaissance fair in Eastern Pennsylvania and the thing was like a spectacle and there were people all over there that were just like legit craftsmen. It wasn't. Like they were selling some branded Vistaprint cups and that sort of thing.

[00:05:16] Joe Watson: Legit craftsmen. And I ended up, I remember stopping for a while and just watching and talking to this guy doing a lot of blacksmithing. Had a blade he had been working on and was working on some other tools and just seeing the hot metal move [00:05:30] and the sparks fly. I thought it was awesome. And then right after that ended up going to a bookstore and found a Wayne Goddard's 50 knife shop.

[00:05:40] Joe Watson: I don't know if they've revised it. I've wondered like with inflation now it might be like 500 knife shop. I don't know, but Oh boy, it teaches you a lot of the basics that I see. even more experienced people skip over important stuff. And it just shows you if you're [00:06:00] willing to use some elbow grease, you can, you can get by and get started with not much.

[00:06:05] Bob DeMarco: What were some of the things in that Goddard book that you think people are skipping over these days?

[00:06:11] Joe Watson: One I see, I don't do a lot of, uh, say, it's a big thing with hidden tangs where on, on a knife, you never want any kind of sharp corner. And the reason for that is as you're thermal cycling it, as you're going through heat.

[00:06:27] Joe Watson: cold and rapid transitions [00:06:30] through those. It's a stress riser, so you'll get fractures in there, which hopefully you can detect along the way, but sometimes that's difficult. Um, and also just in use if the nice taking shock bends, etcetera. Um, you know, not not a great thing. And you see a lot of the knives with those sharp corners on there or on a hidden Tang.

[00:06:51] Joe Watson: You see the Tang. And then it comes right up to the blade. And when they break, that's why they always break at the guard. Um, so I have like some, I [00:07:00] do here and it's, it's hard to explain without pictures, but when I do mine, I mean, the tang is, is only coming down a slight bit from the actual width of the heel of the blade here.

[00:07:11] Joe Watson: It is, it is very stout right here. Hey, yo. It complicates like assembly because you're running really close to the outside here when you're shaping this, you're kind of flying blind. So it takes more time and more guard [00:07:30] fitment because instead of just dropping down a straight slot. into the guard. You need the interior of the guard to swoop down in that curve.

[00:07:38] Bob DeMarco: Oh yeah,

[00:07:39] Joe Watson: but that's why, you know, hidden tanks have a reputation for being weak and prone to breaking, but they, they do not have to be that way.

[00:07:50] Bob DeMarco: That's interesting. Okay. So I have a cold steel right here. Ordinarily I wouldn't show this in a, an interview like this, but I have a cold steel here and actually it's a full tang, but you can see where the [00:08:00] shoulders are squared right up to that, um, right up to that guard.

[00:08:04] Bob DeMarco: They just slid the guard up. And so this is where you're talking, uh, that's where you don't want those right angles, right? Yeah.

[00:08:11] Joe Watson: Right. Where the tang meets the blade or on some knives, even like a full tang, you'll see something come up to a choil. But any of those sharp corners, everything should be radius that there should never be a, you know, like a 90 degree or something really sharp geometry wise on that.

[00:08:27] Joe Watson: Cause it's, it's definitely a stress riser. [00:08:30]

[00:08:30] Bob DeMarco: So you got the book, uh, you made a couple of knives or made your first knife. Um, were you immediately bitten by the bug to make stuff? Are you, are you a maker in general? Would you be doing something else, making something else if it weren't knives?

[00:08:44] Joe Watson: Yeah. I don't know, you know, for a living or not, but just building stuff and tinkering with stuff.

[00:08:49] Joe Watson: Yeah. I mean, I'm playing with guns, doing welding, like fabricating stuff. Um, I'm a terrible carpenter, but I like the woodworking just, yeah, I like using my hands and, [00:09:00] and making neat stuff. Just anytime I've been around a craftsman, it's just, been around forever and knows this stuff like it is like school is in session for me and it's like it's a treat and pretty inspiring.

[00:09:13] Bob DeMarco: So you got, uh, you, what, uh, what branch of the military did you go into?

[00:09:19] Joe Watson: I was in the army, which was mostly just because, you know, you walk into a recruiting office with, uh, you With all the branches in there and the, the army guy kind of got to me first. [00:09:30] And yeah, some people have stories about, uh, the recruiter kind of screwing them or car salesman or mental or something.

[00:09:39] Joe Watson: Looking back, that's not something I can blame. My dude was, uh, incredibly honest. Like when I told him, I was like, I want to do something like. You know, the war stuff like infantry or something. He's like, all right, not gonna lie to you, it effing sucks. But that's what we want to do. Here you go. And he had some good tips afterwards on stuff to, uh, [00:10:00] You know, maybe do or avoid, but he, he shot me straight on it and you know, it wasn't kidding.

[00:10:06] Bob DeMarco: So what, okay. What was the quality of the knives when you got there? I mean, you already had this love built up for knives. You're issued some knives. What were they like?

[00:10:17] Joe Watson: Um, issued, like if you ever tried to look up NSN system, basically everything that's a production company knife is in there. I mean, there is a huge variety of you name the big guns.[00:10:30]

[00:10:30] Joe Watson: The big production company knives, probably the most common I saw. Like you might get right off the bat was, uh, the M nine bayonet, which if you want to call that a knife, and I think several people make them, I know Ontario was one, but I believe there, there are, have been other contractors to making them, but it's as a knife, you know, Pretty poor.

[00:10:53] Joe Watson: The edge is, uh, extremely thick. It's made for durability and for stuff soldiers do, like they're going to use [00:11:00] it as a pry bar and beat on stuff. So you got no edge retention, really thick geometry. It doesn't cut. And a lot of guys, once they got the chance to go buy something, they're in a lot of places in the military that bayonet is like an accounted for sensitive item.

[00:11:17] Joe Watson: So it's tracked by the arms room. And if you were to, you know, lose that thing that is like serious business and consequence, it's, it can technically is the equivalent of like [00:11:30] losing a rifle or some night vision or something. Wow.

[00:11:32] Bob DeMarco: Okay.

[00:11:32] Joe Watson: So a lot of guys were like, I don't want any more crap I, I gotta worry about losing and just head down to the PX and there, you know, all your folding knives, fixed blades, not a whole lot.

[00:11:45] Joe Watson: Sometimes you'd see something like a skeletonized thrower or like a hunting kind of knife with, uh, usually some big guard, kind of belly drop point blade, and usually a good old floppy nylon sheath that A lot of times [00:12:00] has shiny silver rivets putting it together and then you know eventually when when everybody was getting on the internet and stuff too that that started to open up some.

[00:12:11] Joe Watson: But yeah, so nothing, you know, real great. The folders, a lot of people just like now do folders for the convenience. It, yep, sleep, slip it right in my pocket. It's pretty light, but I don't know how many times I'd see guys where, you know, we'd been out doing something and he goes to get his knife and he's like, [00:12:30] did I give somebody my knife?

[00:12:32] Joe Watson: And you know, what happened was like a tree branch or a strap on a pack. Like you, you take your pack off and it peels it out. Um, or a tree branch plucks it out and you may or may not realize that if you hear it hit the ground so that that was a super common problem. And then especially getting in the places in the Middle East.

[00:12:52] Joe Watson: Just the sand is so bad. They're just everything is getting antique to the sand. But a lot of the mechanisms would get so [00:13:00] fouled to where you're sitting there. You know, almost struggling to try to open the blade. And then sometimes they wouldn't immediately lock into place because there's so much dirt built in there.

[00:13:10] Joe Watson: So at that point was when I started leaning towards like, yeah, I need to find a fixed blade that's reasonably thin, not so big and wide and, you know, light enough that I can put it on my stuff or always have it with me. So I don't have to worry about. mechanical failures anymore. [00:13:30] And if I have gloves on or my hands are really cold, like when it comes out of the sheath, it's, it's ready for me to use.

[00:13:38] Bob DeMarco: Yeah. Intuitively that may, that makes sense to me that a fixed blade knife is just always kind of going to be. Um, a little bit more reliable in dire situations or in, um, you know, tough conditions. Um, so tell us about how you started making the fixed blade knives and the style of fixed blade knives you do [00:14:00] now.

[00:14:01] Joe Watson: Initially then it was, I would, guys would see the knives I had and they'd say, Hey, I got this. So can you do something with it? And it was, it was a pain, but it got my brain working on how to, you know, address some of this stuff because I'd be working on whatever knife they handed me to see what I could do with it.

[00:14:22] Joe Watson: So that, that got me looking a lot at design and thinking about that aspect. Um, what happened [00:14:30] towards the end and right when I was getting out, um, I was starting to look at, uh, There were some issues going on and a guy I've worked with, um, doing sniper stuff, went over to the base on their fight team. So those guys fight and teach combatives and they were doing studies and found out that You know, even though you got some strong, tough guys, sometimes you're doing prisoner handling or going to a room and your helmet [00:15:00] and your vest, there are handles all over you that somebody can get a hold of.

[00:15:04] Joe Watson: And it is really hard to get them off. You know, it's not as easy as you'd think to maybe crack them in the jaw and get them to let go. And if it was, you know, a lethal force situation where they're, you know, trying to use your weapon or kill you, they started looking more at using, um, Blades to do that.

[00:15:22] Joe Watson: Um, and then the flip side was everybody even now wants to just say, I'm gonna get this really cool knife, strap [00:15:30] it on. And now it's an asset. But at one point, there was a unit in the army that did a study on all of the, you know, knife fights that were going on in the GWAT. And what they found, there were quite a few, but not Always for the reasons people think the primary ones were happening during prisoner handling So you're trying to detain a guy and?

[00:15:54] Joe Watson: He sees that handle sticking out and says, and goes for it. And now they're in a fight over a knife. [00:16:00] So I did not want something that was like, you know, 10 inch Rambo handle sticking out where the whole world can see it. So I started trying to tuck them behind places or keep them on my belt line where I can still get to them quickly, but they're at least a little hidden from view.

[00:16:19] Joe Watson: And then back then with all your handles stuff was like. rubber injection molded plastic, all black stuff. So it stands out like a sore thumb and You [00:16:30] know, rubber and plastic, you spray paint everything, but it still doesn't hold up. So that was where I started getting into trying like tan and earth colored cords and, uh, the earth color G10 started coming out and that sort of thing.

[00:16:46] Joe Watson: So it was, it was kind of, yeah, dual purpose

[00:16:50] Bob DeMarco: kind of blending into the, the uniforms you were. Issued.

[00:16:57] Joe Watson: And some of that also came from, uh, I'd went to a [00:17:00] tracking school that was ran by a guy named David Scott Donilon, who was like one of the original, uh, Rhodesian SAS guys and the stuff I'd learned there was mind blowing.

[00:17:12] Joe Watson: Like wish I, I would have known about it years before, cause it would have helped like the effort and the, the war so much, but. On the camouflage side of things, he was like, if you're going to be a tracker, they were so strict on their camouflage where like every, every piece of [00:17:30] exposed skin has to be covered.

[00:17:32] Joe Watson: You go through your gear all the time, even if you have like a tan plastic buckle. In use and friction, it starts to get polished and shiny. So you're going all through your kit and your equipment and like getting real used to spray paint fumes and you gotta do that every time before you go out. So that, that was more not from the side of, you know.

[00:17:54] Joe Watson: Guy I'm trying to detain is going to go for it, but just camouflage in general. [00:18:00] Cause he had said when they started with things like their, their rifles and their radios, when they would, uh, take prisoners or meet friendly people, and they knew that, uh, those folks knew they were coming, they'd start asking them questions, how do you know they were coming?

[00:18:14] Joe Watson: And he said, every time they were like. I just saw this piece of black moving through the bush and it was there. Usually their FN, FAL or, uh, or, you know, a big radio antenna sticking out. So yeah, his thing was nothing, [00:18:30] you know, black belongs in nature. And some guys want to argue that like, well, Oh, there's crows or gorillas.

[00:18:38] Joe Watson: Or the point is to look like nothing. Like, I don't want to look like a gorilla, but yeah, some suspicion.

[00:18:48] Bob DeMarco: Okay. Let's take a look at, at, at some knives that will represent, uh, that sort of concept. I mean, we're talking, uh, I said in my, in my open, some of your knives were some of the first, I [00:19:00] was like, Oh my gosh, you know, I can carry a fixed blade every day. These can fit into a sort of low profile, um, look. You know, especially living in suburbia or in urban landscapes where I was at the time.

[00:19:16] Bob DeMarco: You don't want all that stuff showing. So let's see some of these examples here.

[00:19:22] Joe Watson: So real early stuff for me was almost, a lot of it was kind of Japanese style like this. Which [00:19:30] was largely just because at the time with really minimal equipment, um, this shape is pretty easy to do. You can almost find some steel that's about the right width and then kind of put a point on there and drill a hole or two and you're off to the races.

[00:19:47] Joe Watson: As far as the wraps, um, I did forget to lay out some like Ni Hanto, but for some reason I just always been into them. And that's probably like the only knives I really collect. I don't know why they just. They speak to [00:20:00] me. Yeah. The Japanese, uh, traditional blades.

[00:20:05] Bob DeMarco: Okay.

[00:20:06] Joe Watson: So at one point when I was trying to figure out handle stuff, I started looking at I have blades with several different examples and then went and found pictures of, you know, many others.

[00:20:18] Joe Watson: And it's like now what people think like, yeah, that's a Japanese rapper. That is not the truth is back then there were people who put so many different spins on things that it's more [00:20:30] like probably not that that is not a Japanese rap. It's just not one that you've seen yet. Like kind of, uh, like this style here that you see, you know, everyone doing now, but I'd started playing with it because, um, going through the woods and G 10, a lot of that can make some noise depending on what's hitting it.

[00:20:52] Joe Watson: And I wanted something to deaden that down. And also for the guys that were getting real strict on their, uh, [00:21:00] camouflage. Uh, I are light that reflects off surfaces at night, like plastic tends to be really bad. Anything black colored tends to be horrible. It Almost like a glow stick a lot of times. So just to get non reflective and something that would stay that way.

[00:21:18] Joe Watson: I started playing with the cord and for the combative knives, it was, uh, the grip also, cause you see the, the peaks you have running all up and down the handle for me, it [00:21:30] was the best mix of like, that's going to stay in my hand, but it's not so sharp that if I have it under a t shirt, it's going to start.

[00:21:38] Joe Watson: you know, eating me up or wearing holes in my shirt and fraying gear and that sort of thing. So I knew back then that a lot of those cords were things like uh, silk and they were using rice glue, stuff like that to put it together. And it, from what I gathered and reading, it used to be pretty common. If you're using that thing, you might have to get it rewrapped a [00:22:00] couple times a year and it wasn't a big deal because there was always people around that worked on blades back then, like very big blade culture.

[00:22:08] Joe Watson: So I started looking at stuff like the nylon cords and using fiberglass resins, because the stuff I made, it's like, we have so much equipment to maintain and try to check on that. I don't want to add to it. I want something that's going to last for a really long time. So, I mean, this one, and this is a fixed out piece that I, I had [00:22:30] mostly made at the time for, uh, for breaking stuff, um, more than knife stuff, but this was, you know, around 2005 and it's, it's dirty, got some fraying, but it's still, you know, serviceable for.

[00:22:45] Joe Watson: Who knows how much longer? So I know they last at least that long.

[00:22:50] Bob DeMarco: I'm a, I've become a real big fan of, I just call it loosely Japanese rap, sometimes Sukamaki. I think I've read that somewhere. Um, but I love, you were [00:23:00] showing it in cross section, those peaks and valleys. are just great. Your fingers fall in there.

[00:23:06] Bob DeMarco: The fat of your palm falls in there and you get such an amazing grip and you don't really need much of a guard or a guard at all. Did that play into your design?

[00:23:18] Joe Watson: Yeah, eventually, like when I started doing more training with the combat is in the knives and actually, um, doing like organic medium testing and, um, um, yeah, stuff with, uh, [00:23:30] Huge guards, like your, your hidden tangs.

[00:23:35] Joe Watson: This one is on the shorter side, but there's larger out there. People always say like, it's great because. My hand's not going to go up on the blade and that might be true, but there's so much stuff that can happen with that. With, um, like with trainers, we'd see guys that would come in to do something and like a piece of the, the gear or a strap or a sling gets underneath there.

[00:23:57] Joe Watson: And, you know, as you're carrying the [00:24:00] momentum can strip the blade out of your hand and then, yeah, when you're inserting it in things and not even just fighting stuff, I mean, utility used to, I'd seen guys. Going to town on ropes to try to get through 'em quickly, and either a CHO or the uh, guard and they're not paying attention.

[00:24:18] Joe Watson: This blade goes flying. So yeah, I. I try to keep the guards on all my knives like pretty low profile, not much more than I, I think I need. [00:24:30]

[00:24:31] Bob DeMarco: Well, uh, you had a knife up before you were showing us the wrap. You left it in the sheath and, uh, we want to see it. I

[00:24:38] Joe Watson: think that was, uh, this one here, this is a early Early reverse edge knife that was one of the first prototypes I made when I was wanting to, uh, come out with one.

[00:24:50] Joe Watson: And yeah, like what we're talking now is I'm figuring stuff out. I wouldn't go to sell a single blade. to the public until around the 2012. [00:25:00] I feel like midway through the year. Um, so I was working on this stuff and doing it either for favors, barter, whatever, just for co workers and friends for a while before that.

[00:25:10] Joe Watson: And I remembered later on when a guy finally told me like, you could probably, you know, start up this company and do some of these. I'm going. That's weird. So that's how little business sense I had but when I started putting out the Japanese wraps like that did not go well in the civilian market at all because you had the [00:25:30] Nihonto collectors are purists and understandably so because they're trying to protect Blades or left.

[00:25:38] Joe Watson: Um, so they looked at something like that and thought it was just an utter abomination And it seemed like everyone else just thought it was weird. Like, why is there a Katana rap on? And then when I started doing the shows, I'd get guys come by and it seemed like pick them up and play with them or, you know, buy one and then over the years and then [00:26:00] following the internet.

[00:26:00] Joe Watson: Now you can't throw a rock without, you know, somebody doing this style rap, which they get into because it's. It's kind of one of the easier ones to figure out and get started with. So, yeah, it, it wasn't always, uh, like it is now though, but it, yeah, it works. So,

[00:26:19] Bob DeMarco: I mean, I find, I find the wrap awesome because, uh, if you like to wear it in, um, in the waistband.

[00:26:26] Bob DeMarco: Like you were mentioning it, it snugs up to the body [00:26:30] nicely. It doesn't irritate. Um, but it also keeps things relatively thin and it's so grippy. Um, but that's interesting that, that, uh, collectors of Japanese swords and knives, uh, found it to be. Um, you know, just sort of sacrilegious.

[00:26:47] Joe Watson: Yeah, I didn't worry about it.

[00:26:49] Joe Watson: Just like, okay, man, like not what I'm, not what I'm using it for, but got it. So, and then people were saying things like about the synthetic cords and the fiberglass epoxies, [00:27:00] like, oh, you're too cheap to use silk and all that. It's like, no, I just don't. Want it to last more than a few months when I'm using it all the time.

[00:27:08] Bob DeMarco: Yeah. Yeah. I can see, uh, yeah, you don't have a, your local guy. You can bring it to, to wrap it.

[00:27:15] Joe Watson: Yeah. Which was neat back then. That's I think why I liked the Nihonto cause Every blade was pretty much like a legit collaboration. Collaboration might be a term it's a little bastardized now because [00:27:30] sometimes you see big hyped up things like X and X collab and it's like they laser engraved some dude's logo on there and that's it, you know, but you talk about the Japanese blades where it had to go to five different, you know, master craftsmen to get completed.

[00:27:46] Joe Watson: Like to me, that's a co lab. We're like Faberge egg. That's a co lab.

[00:27:51] Bob DeMarco: So 2012, you sort of, uh, decided you could start actually making a go of it and selling these knives. They were starting [00:28:00] to live up to your, uh, you know, your ideas of what, what you would. Be willing to put your name on. How did that go? Uh, how did, how did it become a business?

[00:28:09] Bob DeMarco: And what were your first big knives?

[00:28:12] Joe Watson: Um, initially just first lesson learned on pretty much crash and burn. I had a couple of people I was trying to partner with that they, I always thought they had a lot more vision and, you know, business sense and that sort of thing. And then a little while into it, I was like not agreeing to some of the [00:28:30] stuff was going on or some of the stuff they wanted to do.

[00:28:33] Joe Watson: I ran into some problems that. Personally, I didn't like it all. Like they, you know, wanted to say, Hey, we'll do full, full custom orders, wherever they want, we'll make it. And that might entail somebody showing you like, here's a drawing of this knife. I came up with, can you make it? But then you learn later on, like.

[00:28:53] Joe Watson: It's somebody else's knife that they either couldn't find, or didn't want to pay for, or something like that, and I don't have the time to [00:29:00] go research every, you know, drawing or picture that comes through and figure out, like, is that someone else's, or has this guy been dead for a hundred years? No one's worried about it.

[00:29:11] Joe Watson: So I ended up dipping out of that, getting a real job again. Um, most of the equipment we're using at the time, like was gone. So I was back to having my one by 30 Sander bench grinder, that sort of thing. And the job I had, um, working a lot up in the Northeast and I [00:29:30] wasn't getting home very often. We were doing a lot of like security assessment kind of stuff.

[00:29:34] Joe Watson: So I'd be home maybe one or two weekends a month. I'd usually just come back and. Had just moved into another place beforehand of sitting on the garage floor Indian style on the craftsman grinder and just knocking out whatever I could. Um, and started picking up more on like the combatives training and like Filipino and Indonesian martial arts then because a lot of those places we were going to and not [00:30:00] only like the state city and sometimes the actual venue like pretty strict anti weapons policies.

[00:30:07] Joe Watson: So we're thinking Yeah, can't carry a gun knife, maybe depending on what it is, but could probably explain like some tradesmen tools like screwdrivers and hammers and stuff like that. So wherever we were and we were traveling, we just go look up who's local, teach martial arts and stuff and [00:30:30] go. You know, go see what they did and what they had to say.

[00:30:33] Bob DeMarco: So I know you're, you're pretty heavily influenced by, well, you, you've mentioned it a couple of times, the Japanese style of knives. Uh, but you, you also just mentioned you've done Kali and Silat or whatever Indonesian art you're, you're talking about. And I know that they have extremely blade rich cultures with a wide variety of blades.

[00:30:54] Bob DeMarco: Um, can you show off the Chris you made and, and tell us a little bit about this? [00:31:00]

[00:31:00] Joe Watson: Yes. So I should have, uh, I should have brought out a traditional one too, but it slipped my mind. Um, so this is, uh, that was the one from the picture the other day and it's polished. Objects are so difficult. Like the one I posted, I'm trying to show the tip profile, even like watches and stuff.

[00:31:22] Joe Watson: If you have two different light sources, it makes everything look like. off kilter and jacked up, but it's, it's not, [00:31:30] but, uh, yeah, I had seen like Jody Samson's old hand ground ballet songs. And I was kind of thinking like, why is nobody doing this anymore? Um, so I'd sat down and started figuring out how am I going to grind this?

[00:31:48] Joe Watson: And yeah, eventually it started. Um, piecing together and some of them, you know, I'll do the hand rub finish on. Cause I think it's straight up. [00:32:00] This is an art knife, like not a practical utility knife. Sure. It'll put holes and stuff and pierce things and open Amazon packages, but just to me very much an art knife.

[00:32:12] Joe Watson: Um, but the hand rub finish, you know, you could take a, A scotch brite pad or some four, four ounce steel wool and just pull it down the blade and keep it looking pretty darn decent. And then this has what I call the, the Zeno grind, [00:32:30] which is where I will take the, the rear part of the grind very high up the blade.

[00:32:37] Joe Watson: Kind of as high as I want, and the edge itself will be really thin there, but then as we get to the point, that drops down to a shorter grind, but also the tip is thickening at the point. So, this one, if I can get the angle right. The apex of the point is [00:33:00] about the stock thickness of the blade.

[00:33:02] Bob DeMarco: Bring it over to your left a little bit.

[00:33:04] Bob DeMarco: We got lost in our logo there. Yeah. And then just put your hand behind it if you don't mind. Yeah.

[00:33:13] Joe Watson: Yeah. You, if you want a strong point. That'll do it for you.

[00:33:22] Bob DeMarco: So some of your other blades, like right towards the tip, the, the medial ridge widens out, is that, is [00:33:30] that because that's what you're doing? I think maybe that's present on that Persian you're holding back.

[00:33:34] Joe Watson: Here's, uh, This is easier to see what I'm talking about. Cause it's single edge. Yeah. Can you see the, the grind bevels?

[00:33:43] Bob DeMarco: Yes.

[00:33:44] Joe Watson: So you see it comes up very high and then it drops as you're going to the point and the same thing. Also, the edge is, is thickening up. So, you know, you end up extremely broad point.

[00:33:59] Joe Watson: [00:34:00] Um, cause I wanted to do something that was Not like a tanto grind. Sometimes you see things that have sort of these steps going up the blade, and I don't like that because when you're cutting materials that kind of want to hug the blade, it's something that can stop it when you're trying to get it out.

[00:34:20] Joe Watson: And just for aesthetics too, and it was something I wanted to do when I was just pushing the limits of like, what can you do freehand [00:34:30] grinding? And it was kind of inspired by, uh, like Mick Strider's nightmare grind. Yeah. Cause at one point that was just what I was working on as my goal in knife making was I want to get as good at the freehand grinding as I can.

[00:34:46] Joe Watson: So I saw the nightmare grind and I heard like he called it that because it was a nightmare to grind and I started, uh, playing with it some, and then eventually got to where I think I. You know, mostly got it figured out. I'm relatively proud of [00:35:00] how it looks, and I, uh, went up to Mick and showed it to him.

[00:35:05] Joe Watson: I'm like, hey man, uh, Would it be okay if I maybe sold a couple of these? And he goes, yeah, I don't care. Um, so I said, awesome. Thank you. And I handed him the knife and gave it to him as a thanks. And then he goes off, screw that. And, uh, reaches in his pocket and. Hands me this. Oh my God. So, you know, because I, I asked them and [00:35:30] if you would have said no, I just would have said, yep, got it.

[00:35:32] Joe Watson: Um, no problem. But because I asked them, you know, got a cool mixed rider custom folder outfit. Oh

[00:35:40] Bob DeMarco: man, that is cool.

[00:35:41] Joe Watson: This goes. There's a letter and a pouch that this goes in, uh, for my son, just about that lesson. So it was something I remembered early on learning from like Johnny Stout and Harvey Dean and John Horrigan.

[00:35:57] Joe Watson: It seemed like if you were on the shop with them and they [00:36:00] started going to talk to you about technique or setup or something, one of the first things they would say is like, you don't do. Stuff without people's permission. You don't copy their work. And that drew me to the knife making a lot. So I was like, this is cool.

[00:36:13] Joe Watson: These guys have like a code of honor that they apparently live by. I thought it was awesome. I think now a lot of that's kind of gone out the window, but it's, uh, it's the way I still like doing things.

[00:36:27] Bob DeMarco: What I've gathered is it's gone out the window [00:36:30] when it comes to large companies, but it seems like, yeah, it seems like between, uh, custom makers.

[00:36:36] Bob DeMarco: And, uh, makers like yourself, there are a lot of shared secrets because I think the idea is like, you could show me how to do that Zeno grind and, uh, I could work at it for a long time, but I'm never making a Joe Watson knife. I might. be using some of your techniques to make my knife, but, uh, Joe Watson's knives are his own.

[00:36:57] Joe Watson: And there was stuff as [00:37:00] far as like freehand grinding the skill to me, um, a lot of the stuff that Kiku Matsuda had done for a long time, like, uh, when everybody knows, um, I don't have a Kiku out, but he will run like a hollow grind into a very Convexed front end of the blade. Um, stuff like that. I thought definitely unique, different if, and it can serve a practical purpose as long as, you know, the knife fits the bill for what you're wanting it for.[00:37:30]

[00:37:30] Joe Watson: But yeah, the freehand grinding to me, like that was one of the more like impressive skills to me that I tried to get as good as I can at. And I know you know, eventually I'll probably get to where I'm relatively happy. And then you just start getting old hands don't work or cut your finger off or who knows what, but live it up while you can.

[00:37:50] Bob DeMarco: Yeah. Well, what's what's your process now? Um, last last we checked in with your process, you were, uh, doing a lot of security work in [00:38:00] the northeast. You'd come home, you'd sit on your floor indian style with a one by 30 and, uh, and hack it out. How do you do it now?

[00:38:08] Joe Watson: So that, that ended up coming to a stop because I was just not happy with not being home so much basically.

[00:38:15] Joe Watson: And even the job itself, I, I felt like I was the weak link there. Cause a lot of people were very like tech brain oriented and some of the stuff, not our primary job, but like a secondary role. When I go in and look at like bunches of wires and things like that, [00:38:30] I'm just going, I have no clue what's going on here, but I'd see them talking about like, don't you love when you get troubleshoot like this?

[00:38:36] Joe Watson: I'm going like, no, I want to hang myself. So eventually I was talking like some friends and peers and By far and large, they're going, man, you got a really good thing going. Cause I, all my expenses were paid for like the hotels, rental cars, all the meals or, you know, getting reimbursed. Their salary was pretty much going right into the bank.

[00:38:58] Joe Watson: Good benefits, all that. [00:39:00] So naturally. just decided to go put in my two weeks and came back and thought and go work doing some shooting training and I was thinking about knives a lot and wanted to get some of that going so I went had some money socked away went and got myself like my first real grinder set up the shop just in the garage but had pretty much what I needed tool wise and then started going back to I had all kinds of drawings and wood cutouts or really crude versions of things I've [00:39:30] made and just said, Hey, let's, let's start refining these.

[00:39:33] Joe Watson: And I knew from eventually with modifying the factory blades, there were points where I was just like, some of this is helping, but at some point you're kind of just, you know, Maybe trying to polish a turd a little bit and the effort's just not worth it. So yeah, I went all in on that point, just grinding away.

[00:39:52] Joe Watson: And then, uh, luckily had some folks that were a little bit of an internet [00:40:00] presence, so they'd start showing off pieces they had from me and, you know, started selling things from there and just interest started picking up and it was great because since I was selling things now I could then go buy more materials and.

[00:40:15] Joe Watson: The more I was working, the more I was, you know, improving on fit, finish, and, and my technique. So, yeah, just slowly snowballed by there, still to this day, like, haven't done. paid advertising or anything like that. And [00:40:30] if it, if it wasn't for guys that luckily like showed off and thought highly of my stuff, you know, I probably would have never sold anything really.

[00:40:40] Bob DeMarco: Well, who, who are the people that were jumping? Work.

[00:40:45] Joe Watson: I'm sorry,

[00:40:46] Bob DeMarco: who are the people who you, you mentioned there were a couple of people, uh, with an internet presence who were showing off your work and then other people started, uh, jumping in and buying. Are these collectors or are these, uh, warrior types?

[00:40:58] Bob DeMarco: Uh, who, who were the [00:41:00] people who kind of got your, um, knife selling moving

[00:41:04] Joe Watson: early on? By far and large, not much on like the knife collector side. And maybe it's still that way today. Um. Just guys, cause I was still doing the holsters and there were a couple of East Coast shooting schools that a bunch of the cadre either just got out of the military or just retired from law enforcement.

[00:41:23] Joe Watson: So those guys were buying stuff up. Um, we had a guy who wrote [00:41:30] by the pen name of, uh, Dalton fury.

[00:41:33] Yeah.

[00:41:33] Joe Watson: Um, his first book was about, uh, chasing bin Laden in Afghanistan. So very much real stuff. And then after that he was writing like fiction books that were. Inspired by stuff that happened, but fiction and he had, uh, slipped, uh, knives into some of them, you know, what this Watson knife.

[00:41:53] Joe Watson: So that was awesome. Very nice of them helped a lot. Um, it's guys like, uh, Daryl [00:42:00] bulky that had done. training for a long time and uh, then was getting into a lot of like writing for the magazines and stuff at the time, huge help. And then with the martial arts, it was like guys would have a blade that they would carry and then they'd show everybody and most of them knew like, That's what we were looking for because they were training and thinking alike.

[00:42:23] Joe Watson: And, you know, yeah, that, that alone kept me busy enough.

[00:42:28] Bob DeMarco: Yeah. I got to say, I'm not surprised [00:42:30] because it seems like you put a lot of time and energy into thinking about what makes an optimal knife, especially, uh, for fighting and for carrying, um, I know you mentioned a lot of utility in the military, but of course, you know, you're, you're thinking of things low profile, like when you were moving around prisoners and such, and that's, that's kind of more relatable to the everyday guy walking around because can't be showing off your knife.

[00:42:56] Bob DeMarco: You don't want a, someone to grab it or, or, you know, [00:43:00] pearl clutchers to call the police on you or whatever it is. And uh, so it seems like you learned a lot from all of those experiences that came through in these knives.

[00:43:09] Joe Watson: Yeah. And I, I, I wanted to just, I never thought for a minute, like I'm, I'm making something so I can make some money.

[00:43:16] Joe Watson: My, my main concern was always just this, this needs to be good and it needs to do what we need it to do. Um, cause I, I did not want to put, you know, junk out there. And sometimes to my [00:43:30] detriment, like some of the I guess the more well known models like the Magni, Kydon, uh, the CT, Rotor, all the reverse edge stuff, the push daggers, I was working on those for, several years before we ever, uh, sold one.

[00:43:46] Joe Watson: I'd sit there, prototype it out, send prototypes to guys. I know like, Hey, go try it out, put it through the ringer, see what you think. And then I'd sit there just on my own, testing it out, playing with it. And yeah, [00:44:00] always almost to paralysis by analysis. Trying to vet things and make sure that, you know, I'm not missing anything or overlooking something.

[00:44:12] Bob DeMarco: Uh, Jim is scrolling through a bunch of your knives. First of all, I want to see more in person here, but, uh, something I just saw that, uh, I don't remember seeing a pesh cobs. You did a beautiful pesh cobs. Looks like,

[00:44:26] Joe Watson: uh, do you have a picture?

[00:44:28] Bob DeMarco: Uh, I don't know. He just scrolled through. It's the [00:44:30] kind of, it has sort of a rounded pistol grip.

[00:44:32] Bob DeMarco: And, uh, if you go up from there, Jim, uh, rounded pistol grip, uh, sort of a reinforced tip, double edge, kind of upswept Persian, he kind of thing. Uh, I'll be there in a second. Keep going, keep going. I think it's. Yeah, that right there. If you don't get

[00:44:48] Joe Watson: out the Persians.

[00:44:49] Bob DeMarco: Yeah, those are out. Those are amazing.

[00:44:52] Joe Watson: Yeah. I have a buddy of mine. That's a legit archaeologist, um, [00:45:00] way into the weapons. Um, so he has turned me on to so much stuff and I mean, his places like museum and he's the books and stuff. He's turned me on to when I came across, uh, some of the traditional Persian daggers. I'm going, yeah, this is awesome.

[00:45:15] Joe Watson: So I started thinking. Looking at it from a practical standpoint, some of the handles on those that are carved jade, like beautiful, but definitely more of like a ceremonial decorative thing. So I started thinking, how [00:45:30] can I make it a full tang? Um, and like those two were definitely kind of a mix, mostly still on the art knife side.

[00:45:36] Joe Watson: But Hey, if you wanted to go use it for something that'll, it'll do it. So show us a couple of the knives you have in front of you. Here's one that talking about like the training and the she's early on. So with the Kydex, there were some guys like probably Bud [00:46:00] Neely and Mike Sastre that were real early on doing good kayak sheaths for blades.

[00:46:06] Joe Watson: Um, one thing I ended up doing, cause back then most guys would You know, try to make a belt loop out of kydex or something like that. And I knew from holsters that kydex always had been absolutely the wrong material for belt loops. All the kydex ones I'd seen on holsters would, would break left and right.

[00:46:26] Joe Watson: And then also with the holsters, everyone would [00:46:30] use the Oh six. So. Pretty thin kydex.

[00:46:32] And

[00:46:33] Joe Watson: it just would not hold up. Like some of the holsters at the time, the guys were serious. They buy three or four at a time and they just know like every month or two, I'm going to have to chuck it because it's going to crack or, or get too hot in the sun or left it in the car.

[00:46:49] Joe Watson: And now the retention's gone. So I started stepping up to thicker stuff that was going to last longer. And then my islet patterns. Um, I didn't [00:47:00] see it done at the time, but I knew most guys that are gun guys aren't professionals. You accrue like a drawer full of pistol holsters really quickly. And The holster world was way ahead on belt attachments.

[00:47:13] Joe Watson: There was already all kinds of stuff out there at the time. So I go, well, most of these guys got a pile full of holsters. They're not using, so they have a bunch of attachments they can harvest and put on. So I did my whole spacing to where what you really need to [00:47:30] get all the holster accessories is, uh, One half inch.

[00:47:35] Joe Watson: One inch and an inch and a half. If you have all three of those, you're covering most of the attachments out there. And then, yeah, thicken it up so it would last longer. And then this, this knife and the sheath was one where, there was a group I was training with that um, we're training some tier one guys and they had bought, uh, some daggers from, uh, another [00:48:00] maker.

[00:48:00] Joe Watson: Um, pretty, I'd say like mid tech kind of company. Um, and I was watching with the trainers where the she's came up pretty high and they, they had some reason for it. Like they were saying, I want to be able to put it away without looking really easily and that sort of thing. But what I'd found was. You know, they come out of the blade with a trainer, kind of like this and started, you know, working through their drill or doing their demo or whatever.

[00:48:28] Joe Watson: And I pointed it [00:48:30] out, like, you see where your hands land in there. And they kind of blew me off about it. So I go, whatever, then leave. And a couple of weeks later, I get a call and they're like, Hey, like those daggers, can you maybe do something like that, but it's only sharpened a couple inches at the point.

[00:48:45] Joe Watson: I'm like, I guess why they're going, well, some of the guys are, you know, You know, cutting themselves on the blades, as of what I mentioned, so, you know, my approach when I did it was, um, one, cut the sheath to where, for combative [00:49:00] blade, like, once I'm seated, like, that is my grip. Um, so I don't like, you see a lot of stuff now and the tactical knives, I think it's almost like good idea, Ferry, like the flared pommels, there's some benefit to that, but some of them I see out there are like full, I call them candy cane pommels, and like on the Fagny, I have some of that, which this to me is candy cane pommels.

[00:49:28] Joe Watson: Is always been kind of on the [00:49:30] cusp of pushing it. It's okay, but any longer, it would probably be in problem zone. And a lot of people like with the high cut sheaths, they want to index their draw off of that. So they're going, I'm going to hit that point and forward or reverse grip. And then that's how I index my draw.

[00:49:46] Joe Watson: And then with this high cut sheath, I'm assuming that my hand is just going to fall in where it needs to go. I've found that a lot of times that, uh, That does not pan out that way. So [00:50:00] with the hooks, you also run into, if guys got them under t shirts, some of those knives, I'd watch them try to do a quick draw on the reverse grip and the t shirt ends up wound around the hook.

[00:50:10] So

[00:50:10] Joe Watson: then they come out and they got their shirt attached to the blade. And same thing if you're wearing it externally, I'd seen guys go to drop a pack or take a rifle or something off and the strap just, you know, pulls it over as far as it'll go because it's hung up on it. So I don't like the candy cane hooks.

[00:50:29] Joe Watson: If I'm going to have [00:50:30] some kind of a bump there, I want it subtle and everything rounded over. Which is part for snagging and part for just comfort, if it's against bare skin all the time. That's people that are getting into fixed blades, like I get it, they're like, how am I going to carry something like that?

[00:50:46] Joe Watson: Um, but these guys, you know, part of getting dressed for them in the morning is strapping on a gun, so. A fixed blade is not anything, you know, larger, unbearable to them. It's just something you got to spend a [00:51:00] little bit of time on and play with it and see what's going to work for what you want. But I think it's, it's well worth, you know, spending a little bit of time to figure out.

[00:51:10] Joe Watson: So yeah, this was for that particular project, a prototype of what I came up for, which in this case, it was a CPM3V, uh, a tan PVD finish, which was when I started to learn about the problems with PVD. Like, uh, it is not very corrosion resistant. So if [00:51:30] you If you can see this closely, there's, there's rust on it and it kind of matches cause it's like brown rust.

[00:51:37] Joe Watson: But, uh, and that's with oil on it too. So it would rust through that. And then the actual ones I delivered had screw on handles. Cause I also found that the, the bond of the finish to the blade is not as strong as the epoxy. So the epoxy would peel the finish off. And if you didn't have your. your pins [00:52:00] peened, you know, you'd potentially lose a scale or have it shift on there.

[00:52:05] Joe Watson: So I went to screws and that was another problem with their, uh, daggers. They had, uh, most of them had like a rubber. I think it was maybe like a horse stall mat kind of material. And it would just sometimes like start letting go on its own or when they put it in the sheath, the mouth of the sheath would catch it and peeled up right there.

[00:52:28] Joe Watson: And they had told me that the [00:52:30] supplier had told them like, Hey, just squirt some super glue under there and hold it back down. But it wasn't, you know, working well for them. And then. The other glaring issue was, um, this is, uh, a place in the Navy. So they're, they're ocean guys too. And you have carbon steel around the ocean.

[00:52:48] Joe Watson: It doesn't pan out. And they had told me the supplier stance was like, well, you guys warriors got to maintain his equipment, but what they don't get is like. Some of the op [00:53:00] tempos these guys are doing, you come back for a mission. Maybe you haven't slept in well over 24 hours. You want to do things like maybe call home or eat, but your priorities of work are get all your equipment set up to go right back out again, if you need to.

[00:53:17] Joe Watson: So it might be a while until you get to go eat or work out. So I figure. No more maintenance, you know, anything we can do. There's something you don't got to worry about. That's that's a huge one in my

[00:53:28] Bob DeMarco: book Yeah, [00:53:30] especially like they don't want to be polishing their knives. They want to be uh Making sure their rifles are ready to go and then like you said go get something to to eat Uh, two two things i've noticed, uh, first of all that that knife that dagger has a tapered tang.

[00:53:42] Bob DeMarco: I'm interested about that Um, and also uh, just to get back to the candy cane, uh pommel for a second Um It seems like you remedy some of that with flaring it out sideways. Um, and what do I mean by that? I mean, uh, if you, if you take the knife. [00:54:00] And turn it this way. Seems like it flares out on the side a little bit, which offers that without, without having a hook to snag on stuff.

[00:54:10] Joe Watson: Yeah. And I don't, I don't always do that, but it's, it's definitely an option if it fits the bill, because yeah, then you also have some width there.

[00:54:18] Yeah.

[00:54:18] Joe Watson: Um, and some people also like that. If you were to get the blade really stuck in something and need to pull it out, that gives you a little extra stop. So you can lever it out.

[00:54:29] Joe Watson: [00:54:30] Um, and this may come at an expense for some people. Like if you're trying to concealed carry it under a t shirt, you got to work on your placement and tucking it in a little better. Else you're gonna have a little knob sticking out, but yeah, it's, it's an option and one of the things that can be, can be done

[00:54:48] Bob DeMarco: that, that knife you're holding is another example of your ethnographic sort of influence.

[00:54:52] Bob DeMarco: That's a, a skin do a Scottish knife.

[00:54:55] Joe Watson: Can

[00:54:56] Bob DeMarco: you hold that up for us to look at?

[00:54:59] Joe Watson: And I've done a [00:55:00] couple of different ones. One has a more of an pretty much symmetrical handle mirrored on both sides. This one I just called the round back mod where it's rounded over. Um, and this was mostly before, cause something I always liked to was just being able to feel easily, like which way is the edge facing and for me.

[00:55:22] Joe Watson: You know, asymmetrical handle helps out with that a lot. And when you are doing utility cutting, I [00:55:30] think having, having some good palm support back there helps. That's that was another thing why I didn't like the folders. Like I love and folder guys talk. Ergonomics. I think it's like gun guys talking about trigger reset.

[00:55:42] Joe Watson: Like it's only something you really notice when you're on the couch, but older to me in a lot of ways, if you're doing serious like bushcraft stuff or out in the cold, working with that thing in your hand for a while, it's almost like the antithesis of ergonomics. Cause you usually have [00:56:00] gaps in the blade that if they're not super well dehorned are going to start making blisters and hotspots.

[00:56:05] Joe Watson: You have a piece of metal clip sticking out of the side of the thing, which is Usually going to be against your palm, same thing blisters. And you know, when you, when you are working a lot of utility stuff or it's cold, you kind of want folders usually thin because they want them to be nice in the pocket.

[00:56:23] Joe Watson: But you know, I usually want to handle for serious utility work. That's pretty [00:56:30] wide. I'm going to like support the palm. So you probably know up there when it gets cold out, your hands cramp way easier. Everything in your hands just tends to hurt more faster, so I find having something like this just supports it better.

[00:56:44] Joe Watson: Um, and it's more comfortable if I'm seriously sitting there working on wood or carving or, or splitting things, feather sticks, all that, even I see it in the wintertime sometimes now, like skinning animals, where if I got a really thin knife and I'm trying [00:57:00] to hold like several times throughout it, I'm just like, ah, cause my hands starting to cramp up and it's probably some starting to discover age too, but yeah.

[00:57:10] Joe Watson: So me. Custom knives, you know, is not so much about I picked this color and that handle material. It's My designs, I think have always been more concepts like living, breathing than just a product. So you could look up like a Magni or something and probably go find on the [00:57:30] internet over a hundred variations.

[00:57:31] Joe Watson: Cause it's things that are set up for different tasks or to Excel for different purposes, better sometimes just personal taste aesthetics. But to me having the ability to do the options to make it Excel at different tasks is like. That's what makes custom knives cool to me.

[00:57:51] Bob DeMarco: All right. So Joe, we're, we're getting to the end of our time.

[00:57:54] Bob DeMarco: And before we wrap, uh, I would love you to hold up that Chris again. And, and just [00:58:00] let me take a good look at this beauty. Uh, I'm a sucker for, for Chris, but I also love, uh, knives that you can carry every day that have that sort of historical and ethnic, uh, influence. I even like, uh, how you did the wrap on that handle.

[00:58:16] Bob DeMarco: It looks a little more primitive. Then say, oh yeah, that's beautiful. Then say, uh, some of the, the Japanese, more Japanese rap where you can see the race skin and all of that. Um,

[00:58:29] Joe Watson: There are [00:58:30] wraps. Uh, if we ever get on again, I'll bring some, some ancient blades out, but some of these wraps, uh, I discovered, I was trying to figure out how they did some of the wraps because there's really fine cords, probably like 16th of a, of a diameter, but to me on some of them, it looks like there's like 6 to 8 of them that they're working with at a time, and then eventually I learned that what they would do is they take all those cords and a piece of thread and [00:59:00] gently sew them all together before they even wrap the blade, so you're talking spending hours sewing multiple strands of cords together.

[00:59:08] Joe Watson: So yeah, it's, it's pretty interesting.

[00:59:11] Bob DeMarco: That's amazing. All right. Well, so tell people how they can keep up with you, how they can acquire a knife from you and, uh, all that kind of stuff people want to know.

[00:59:20] Joe Watson: Yeah. Website is a Watson knives. com. Um, I have an email list on there. I work with a few dealers throughout the year from time to time.

[00:59:29] Joe Watson: Um, [00:59:30] Then try to do a couple shows. Usually it's the blade shows right now, especially like Texas and Atlanta. I'm looking at trying to get the Utah and then outside of that. I also understand, you know, some of the level of work I'm trying to do and what it costs is not totally feasible for folks. So we're also.

[00:59:49] Joe Watson: Starting the plan and explore getting some stuff out there that are a little more affordable and obtainable. So hopefully, you know, I get a lot of lower enlisted cops or just [01:00:00] folks don't want to or can't show up the money for a custom. And I also like stuff to be a little more available because I understand that having to track stuff down, but Also, I don't feel terribly bad because some of my Japanese blades, it's like I hunted for them.

[01:00:15] Joe Watson: There's some I'm still looking for and I don't know if I'll ever find them because the guy's been dead for 300 years, you know, so it's not that bad. But yeah, we do want to try to get more out there and I'm working on some form of scaling. So, yeah.

[01:00:28] Bob DeMarco: Awesome, man. Well, we'll [01:00:30] look forward to it and we'll keep in touch.

[01:00:32] Bob DeMarco: And when you have that effort lined up, we'll let everyone know. Cause I

[01:00:37] Joe Watson: appreciate that.

[01:00:38] Bob DeMarco: Your work is awesome. And I know that a lot of people who follow this show have similar tastes to mine. And, um, you know, I know that, that, uh, you'll get a lot of reaction, a lot of interest, Joe Watson. Thank you so much for joining me on the knife junkie podcast, sir.

[01:00:53] Bob DeMarco: It's been a pleasure.

[01:00:54] Joe Watson: Thank you. Likewise. I appreciate you having me on good talking with you, Bob.

[01:00:58] Bob DeMarco: All right, man. Take care.[01:01:00]

[01:01:10] Bob DeMarco: There he goes. Ladies and gentlemen, Joe Watson, uh, go check him out. If you go to any of the blade shows, especially, uh, Texas and, uh, Atlanta in June, uh, stop by, say hi to him and, uh, pick up one of his, it will transform you as did the, uh, the Chris I picked up. It had some sort of ivory handle. Don't [01:01:30] remember exactly, but.

[01:01:31] Bob DeMarco: Man alive. Was it gorgeous? Just as that black handled one was that he was just showing off. And also it's really cool to see, uh, that Zeno grind up close. It's pretty amazing. All right. For Jim working his magic behind the switcher. I'm Bob DeMarco saying until next time, don't take dull for an answer.

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