Automated Transcript
Michael Miller, Tactile Knife Company
The Knife Junkie Podcast (Episode 360)

00:05
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast, your weekly dose of knife news and information about knives and knife collecting.
Here's your host, Bob the knife junkie DeMarco.
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast.
I'm Bob DeMarco.
On this edition of the show, I'm speaking with Michael Miller of Tactical Knife Company.
Tactical hails proudly from Texas, naming its knives after the states counties.
It's also the sister company to tactical.

00:35
I'm sorry.
Tactile turn, a celebrated boutique pen brand.
Tactile is venerated in the knife world and also in the pen world for its incredible milling and lathing prowess.
The last time Michael and I sat down for a conversation about a year and change ago, the Rockwall, Tactile’s debut knife was just going into production.
And in the meantime, we've seen tactile knife company explode in popularity, especially with the Rockwall and their slip joint, the Bexar.
Michael and I will talk all about tactile knife company, and all things tactile.
But first, be sure to like, comment, subscribe, hit the notification Bell, and download the show to your favorite podcast app.

01:15
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01:49
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Michael, welcome back to the show.
How you doing, Sir?
Doing good.
Thanks for having me, Bobby.
It's my pleasure.

02:06
It's my pleasure.
Hey, congratulations on the success of the Rockwall and then the Bexar.
I know you know, we bumped into each other at Blade show and we had a chance to to talk just a little bit.
But I haven't had a chance to officially congratulate you guys on how just you took took it by storm as first with the Rockwall then with the back.
Congratulations on that.
Thank you.
What's this whirlwind been like?

02:30
What's it been like going from a company?
Last time I spoke you were like, I don't know how we're gonna manage this production.
We have all these people who want this knife because it came out to very high acclaim, you know, from from the prototypes you sent out.
What was it like tooling up and getting to the point where you could reliably make these knives?
So whenever he process we had hiccups or not really hiccups, roadblocks, and we had to find ways to overcome them and get around them, blow through them or whatever.
So.
With the most of them it was production assembly of blades, sourcing material, getting them back from from heat treat, getting them back from double disc, grinding all the steps and processes, getting them to the point where there was a fine fine-tuned machine where we were able to keep up with

03:17
production or keep up with demand.
So it's it's definitely been a long process to get everything dialed in.
We've moved into a new shop that drastically increased our output by just giving us more square footage we were at the point where.
Everyone was bumping into each other, we had no parking spots and now we've expanded to a new building that has bright future and lots of stuff coming.
Ohh man, that's exciting.
Uh, it's like kind of moving house in a way.
Except uh, you're it's much more of a moving houses with thousands of pounds worth of equipment and materials.

03:51
No doubt you're moving all of that stuff so you guys are tactile knife and turn.
But we're talking about tactile knife here.
Makes all of its produces everything in shop in house.
I think last time we spoke it was with the exception of the stop pin.
I think you bought that from somewhere else.
But is is that still the case and what's it like having a a factor, a manufacturing facility that does everything?
So it's a, it's a challenge for sure, but it also gives a lot of benefit.

04:23
It's it's a challenge in our pocketbook mostly we have to get the equipment, get the machines to be able to minimize the amount of outsourcing or outside of facility production there is.
So for example right now we even double disc grind in house.
So the only two things that we outsource as far as, as far as material are the the bearings are washers and then the stop pins and then the only thing we outsource as far as.
Manufacturing process is the heat treating, uh, so those are we've dialed it down to that level, which is really kind of unheard of in the, Umm, for the age of this brand for sure.
Yeah.
You're less than three years old, correct.
Yeah, we started in 2020. OK, wow.

05:11
That's right.
Yeah.
Very, very quickly ascended.
So you're talking about double disc grinding.
Is that putting the bevels on blades?
Signing is flatness, grinding.
So it's it's just to make it where your material is a set set thickness.

05:26
What that does is makes it where whenever we grind it, we know where the thickness is, we know where the center is.
It also makes it whenever we machine it, we know where to hide this.
Ohh OK alright so that and that allows you to maintain the Super tight tolerances that you have made your name on.
So you go, you, you, you have this one knife that you started with the Rockwall and that was that was how you started the brand.
And I know your goal was to make you know, an all arounder EDC though.
That's something that really sticks out with me.
That's because I'm an old guy, but I remember the wrigleys, chewing gum packages that you wanted this to fit inside of the little 5 stick, 5 stick chewing gum package and you really did it.

06:16
You were able to get a very capable 3 inch bladed.
And beautiful and beautifully made knife in that tiny little package.
Is that kind of what the?
What the design goals for tactile knife type knives are like making them small, very slim, like the Bexar is also very small and slim is that part of the design philosophy?
So that was part of the design philosophy, not really our our main goal, but it was us following in the footsteps of tactile torrent.
So being a classy, classy pin, being slim and sleek, we wanted to follow those parameters.
That's what we did with the Bexar and that's what we did with the Rockwall, was keeping them thin, slim, sleek.

07:00
We're always going to try and keep the thinness just because it makes a better knife.
The the sharpness of your knife is substantially better whenever you have a thin blade.
But we we are going to be expanding into a larger offering hopefully here this year.
OK, we're gonna get to that and I can't wait because I believe you have it on your desk to show off.
Yes Sir.
But before we get there I want to talk a little bit more about the Rockwall because I noticed once production was was going you you were at first offering the flipper and now looking and then at some point you introduced the thumb stud and and the thumb stud version and you and you started doing
different milling patterns and such, you know, started adding variation.

07:42
I was just on the website looking.
Do you still offer the flipper, or have you?
Tell me about the decision to go to thumb stud, was this a by popular demand kind of thing?
So I've got my flipper right here.
So we went from a flipper which had cage bearings, uncaged bearings, which was really the difficulty and what was holding the the Rockwall back was just the the maintenance that is required from a closed system and then also having uncaged bearings we went from that to the Rockwall with cage
bearings and then open stop pen.
So it makes it where you have easier maintenance, you have easier to take apart clean and just take care of your knife.

08:29
So we we transition to that.
In that process we had a lot of great feedback, a lot of great response on the thumb stud and we've leaned into that and discontinued currently the flipper model.
That's not saying we won't come back to it eventually, but if this at this time we do not have it scheduled in our production as far as like a redesign to make it cage bearings.
And Umm, yeah.
So it's currently discontinued.
Will it come back?
If it does come back, it will be a different knife.

08:58
OK, OK Oh well, that's cool.
I feel privileged to have this flipper.
I really like the way it looks.
I have not experienced the the Rockwall with the thumb studs.
I always talk about looks.
It has a lot to do with what draws me to a knife, I must admit.
And I love both models of it.

09:18
So now just Jim, actually, could you scroll back up?
It the schematics part of what you guys do and pride yourself on is the actual construction.
I remember well when this when we were talking about this knife in particular the Rockwall, there was a lot of detail and construction or I should say construction details that were different from many other companies.
And you prided yourself on that.
How does that affect your?
What do you tell customers who want to take your knives apart and is that something you encourage or are they too finally done to for you to encourage that?
So the one thing that we don't really encourage is for people to take apart the liner lock.

10:05
So if you if you take the liner lock off the knife, we can switch to the top down camera real quick and I can show you better.
But if you if you take the liner lock off on the knife, you have to take apart this really small Flathead screw on this scale right here.
And it's extremely difficult and we really discourage that, because if you don't do it, put it back in, right?
If it's not tight all the way, you're gonna affect your action.
You're gonna affect your lockup, which also affects the reliability of your knife.
Other than that, we don't mind anybody taking apart our knives.
We've also moved to a captured pivot system.

10:41
If if you look closely, this is a shaped pivot.
And the one that you have in your hands is a circle on both sides, so having a captured pivot makes it where where you have.
Easier to tune, easier to get it dialed into the action you want.
Umm, trying to think if there's anything else.
One thing you're talking about is just like our process of making and and how we're different.
We really are a machine shop.
Not first, but we are just a very capable machine shop with all the machines we have at our fingertips.

11:18
We have currently 7 Swiss lace, Citizen, Swiss lays.
We have two more on the way just for our turned parts.
So every single pivot, every single.
From stud, every single screw on our knives we're making ourselves.
That.
That's definitely not the case again for companies of our age in this industry.
I I don't know this for sure, but I would venture to say that there are many companies out there who do not make their own screws.

11:49
To me, that's that's a little bit of wizardry there.
Those tiny, tiny little screws, you know, well, hats off to the the people who man that frustrating machine.
But.
So you, you the Rockwall, great success probably.
Well, no doubt you learned a lot from it because things changed the thumb stud.
But also you know the other things that you mentioned.
So you are flexible and nimble enough to change things along the way and you don't have to wait for months and months for your order overseas to to reflect those changes because you have it all in the house.

12:29
What are, what are the you know to me that's the ease of having things in houses.
You can in a way, Umm, control your schedule a little better, but what are some of the things that?
What are some of the difficulties?
So some of the difficulties are definitely material acquisition and also just flat out scheduling, making sure that your materials there on time, making sure that parts are there on time.
Again, us transitioning to a in-house surface grinding makes it where we have control over our schedule.
We have control over how things process through our shop except for heat treating and the heat treat that we use is extremely reliable and we haven't had any issues with them keeping our schedule.
So we've gotten to the point where schedule really only is.

13:12
Bound by our limitations on materials.
So as long as we keep ahead of the curve on that, we don't have a problem.
What about workforce?
What has it been like as you've been scaling up on manufacturing, you also obviously have to be scaling up on personnel and that that this is skilled labor.
This isn't just a you know something that you I would imagine something that you can just learn in a weekend.
What is it been like acquiring talent?
We've been extremely lucky being in the Dallas Fort Worth area.

13:41
It's got a lot of infrastructure, a lot of people that are willing to work.
We had a great line of people come and join our team.
The the one struggle I guess we've had.
Is an assembly team just because we're we've learned and we we've gotten to the point where we're freaking knocking things out of the park.
But that was one of our challenges was getting in assembly team trained just because we had no experience in assembling knives.
We had no experience and being a sharp, having a sharpener and then learning that skill set on the job instead of learning that skill set beforehand.
Those were kind of the the skills and the the talents that we you can't just pick out of a barrel.

14:21
Right.
So maybe that that winding up period of time that's just kind of the cost of doing business of of spooling up a business to where it can?
Run on its own or not run on its own, but run efficiently without having to worry too much about the people who are there knowing what they're doing.
Because knife making and and this kind of precision machine work isn't.
It doesn't seem like a kind of dime a dozen career.
Yeah, so we have a core team of people.
So we have Matt Palamore, who is our designer, was the designer of the Rockwall, the Rockwall Farmstead and also the Bayer as well.

14:59
He's really able to adapt and overcome.
Any situation he's given, he learned how to use the grinding machine that we received from Germany with a lot of a lot of skill.
And he's gotten to the point where we don't have any problems whenever it comes to grinding a new blade, new blade shape, new blade design, it's just takes a little bit of time to dial it in and then once we get it going, they're able to keep that machine running.
Same thing is with our with our grinding team, we also have EDM's run by Tim, he's he does a great job doing that.
And Kevin, like I said.
I talked about him a little bit without referring his name.
He does all of our turned programming and runs the turn department and it's it's been a lot of learning on his end to whatever idea, whatever thing we need to come up with.

15:45
He's always fast and efficient at at bringing us prototypes, bringing us what we need.
So we we've got a really capable team that's always learning the new machines, learning what we need to fill those gaps.
And we also have a great assembly team now that's linked to that as well.
Uh, I want to talk about the birth of the Bexar, but uh, first you you mentioned a couple of times the turn, the term turn and we hear that in the name tactile turn for the pen company.
We hear a lot about milling in the knife and of things we don't hear much about turning.
Can you just give a brief explanation of what you mean?
So turning you have a spindle, spindle is rotating and then you have a chain of of tools that go in and interact with the a bar of material.

16:28
So you're using round bar stock that's extremely long.
Let's shoot most time 10 feet long bars that we're putting into the machine to crank out screws and make them repeatedly making make.
That's what they use for the pins.
That's what they use for all the turn hardware that we have.
So just that's what they're they're known for their pins that's what started Tactile knife Co I was just we were built off the back of this brand here and we're extremely grateful for the for the chance to to make this happen.
That was a really cool pen you were just holding up.
Yeah late like a. Like a lathe for like we know in woodwork but for metal and OK alright I just wanted to get a little clarification on that.

17:09
OK, so the Bexar now or or as a lot of us Yanks called it the Bexar until we were learned learned good on the pronunciation.
So it's it's Bexar after Bexar County.
But so you you had the Rockwall.
Now you decide to make a slip joint.
Where did that come from?
Was that another thing where you just kind of reading?
The wind.

17:34
So in my previous brand, I worked with Jared Ozier quite a bit, and he's he was always just a really great guy, and his modern interpretation of a slip joint was always something I was intrigued by and really liked.
Same with Enrique Pinay.
I've owned both of them.
I've got a ozier about 10 feet away from me, and I was really inspired by that and kept trying to tell the team, hey, we should probably make a modern traditional slip joint.
And that's where the Bexar came from.
Yeah, it took three months to design the spring alone, just to get the mechanism to work, just iterations and designs to make it where it was a strong enough spring had a good retention.
I has that good little chirp whenever you open it.

18:19
So you hear that little snap, crackle and pop that's called that's called the talk of a of a slip joint.
And then the walk is how it how it feels and we try to get as as good of a walking and talk that as we can with a crazy thing profile.
Crazy thing.
That's very cool.
So like to get the walk and talk just right.
I mean, I've I've heard without naming names, I've heard of a very established companies who are known for their modern folding tactical knives.
Putting their, you know, trying their hand at slip joints and uh, not doing so well at it.

18:56
I have one of them and it's very expensive and and I like it, but it's not.
There is no walk and talk.
And, and that's not, that's not a reflection on how good this knife maker is because there are excellent.
But you know you can't, it doesn't.
Just because you can make a good locking night doesn't necessarily mean you can just waltz into the slip joint world.
What was it like?
You know you said you had various iterations, but was it like learning the whole thing over again?

19:25
So again, referencing Matt Palamore, the designer of the Bayer, he spent months before even trying to make the spring, figuring out, joining Facebook groups, talking.
So joint makers and asking questions, figuring out how the mechanism worked before he even started trying to prototype.
We went from there to 3D printing.
We went from 3D printing into making prototypes, doing them by hand they would fail, and then getting to the point where they wouldn't fail by hand.
So we put them on a machine and had a robot open and close it and open and close it and open and close it to see if it would fall apart or fail.
And finally got tuned interaction that we were happy with, that we at the robot was doing the equivalent of 10 years worth of worth of.
Use opening it 10 times a day, so.

20:09
So we really tried to dial in the spring and then from there we we got everything else everything else.
So that again so with the with the Bexar we really focus on how thin it was going from the thickness.
We had to have a thin spring and so we were very limited and challenged by that.
We did, we tried to try to play in a league that was a little bit above what we were supposed to at the time.
But I think I definitely think we knocked it out of the park and I think that the the Community agrees with with us.
Yeah, I I I also would as I mean I I have a pretty nice collection of pretty nice slip joints and I the the Bexar is awesome.
You know one of the things that.

20:53
Well, you were talking walk and talk, people.
You know, enthusiasts in in any realm of enthusiasm get very particular and slip joint guys like certain things and the Bexar has it all.
The flat, you know the the flat spring at the half stop, the walk and talk, the thinness, the pocket ability of it.
And then you offer this great package where you can throw that in a sweet little leather slip and throw in the little pen on the side.
And you have a full on tactile package.
I've got one over here.
One second.

21:29
Oh yeah, that is so sweet.
So I'm going to show this video to my my wife and daughters after work and say about 20 minutes in check this thing out, look at this full package that and by the way that is a very, very beautiful clip point blade.
And it had me thinking before we started rolling.
You're from Texas and you have great pride in Texas and you know how to design a beautiful clip point blade maybe sometime, just sometime in the future tactile knife company.
And make a big Bowie knife using all that.
So is in Montague County, and that's about 25 minutes from where I live.
Boy, see, OK, I grew up in Ohio and it's so hard to get Bowie out of my mind, but people, people like to tell me he's just a British singer.

22:22
So you mentioned you have a couple of prototypes that you're working on.
You've been busy collaborating with some big names.
Tell us about, tell us about the Maverick.
The Maverick is what is our next folder that we're going to be coming out with?
It's a 3.6 inch.
3.6 in change blade with a locking bar system and currently rich light handles.
I'm sure we'll do other other handles as well.

22:52
I know we've we're just prototyping some titanium versions today as well, so it's going to be a thumb stud.
It's going to have a good action, and we're also in the process of prototyping the clip.
So that's the one thing this knife is missing is the clip and dialing, dialing in what we want the mechanism to be.
We're going to be using washers, not bearings.
On this system, I think we're going to be using bearings on the titanium version and it's going to be coming out hopefully in November.
So we also this knife was designed by Richard Rogers, so we are honored to work with Richard and he's such a great dude.
His wife Sally is an amazing lady.

23:34
They they make a great team.
And as far as the design language, Richard always knocks things out of the park.
He was able to come to our shop this March and meet the team in person and spend some time with the makers.
With the owner, with me, with the team see the facility and really, really wanted to work with us and we were honored to have him him join the team.
Washers.
I love that.
Thank you.

24:00
So so most locking bar systems run on washers just because this is designed to be a utility knife designed to really take a lot of beating and to perform well doing it.
So we wanted to keep rigidity, but also we really want to try and get a really great action.
So that's that's our, our big goal is trying to get that exactly dialed in the way we want to and we'll definitely be keeping everyone updated.
As far as the as far as the progress on that, that is really important I mean you know.
50 years ago it wasn't.
But action is really important, people.
That's part of the experience, that's part of what you're paying for.

24:36
Would you mind holding that up again just so we can take a look at it, maybe hold it a little closer to camera.
And so this one you're you're holding up is rich light.
And then this is in comparison to Rockwall.
OK. So yeah, you definitely have some some size on it.
We're still going to, we're going to be sticking with magnet cut as well, so.
Definitely excited to be doing that.
So comparison open.

25:09
Pivot to pivot.
Tips.
Tip?
Sorry, look at that.
Yeah, that 3.6 inch blade is the perfect size as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah.
So as far as like enhance, you get a full, full grip.

25:24
I've got excel, Excel hands, you get a full grip with enough room to spare.
So we definitely.
Have a different, different knife coming out than the the three inch Rockwall.
Now I'm not saying the three inch Rockwell you don't get a full grip you definitely do even my big big hands.
But it's definitely a different size, different different utility, different purpose but still a great functioning knife that we really are are proud to release.
So when it came to collaborating did this happen and we're going to talk about another collaboration you have coming up but.
Just the nature of the the these two collaborations in general, do they happen sort of naturally organically or did you decide we need to pull in collaborators and kind of enter that market?

26:12
How did that work?
So we we definitely focused on production of our current models and we were looking at the future and being like, hey, we need to get something else in the works.
Now we can either try and get Matt or the designer of the Rockwell and the designer of the Bexar and also the guy that's running half the machines, making sure that they're dialed in and ready to go, doing all of our programming, making fixtures.
We can get him to do it and add one more thing to his plate or we can phone a friend kind of and talk to some makers that we already have good relationships with.
I've known Richard and Sally for years, and then I've known the next guy for just as long as well.
And we we definitely it's we're we're picky as all get out about who we work with.
We want to work with great people and we don't want to work with just Joe Blow that sketches something on a napkin.

27:01
These are really established makers that are known by the community for doing really great stuff because we don't want our name to be looked bad upon.
And then it's a very heavy, heavy weight on our shoulders to make sure that we.
Produce a great product because it's not just our name writing on it as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That would be the worst, wouldn't it?
To, to put all this effort in, have it, have it not come out right, and have someone else's name attached to it, not just yours, especially someone like Richard Rogers.
So what you were showing the other a fixed blade you showed me before we started rolling really has me excited because I love this kind of knife.

27:40
Tell us about this one.
So I'll show you the prototype real quick.
So we we started by 3D.
Printing prototypes and getting the size dialed in so we wanted to get a four full finger grip still be able to have a pocket slip so that it can it can be inside your pocket or outside your pocket on a belt.
We're we're working with a really good sheath maker.
We have to get the first one ground he's going to be making our kydex sheets and then we should be coming to market with that relatively soon.
I know we had some some being surface ground after heat treat that they're about to be ground and then go into finishing so we.

28:15
This is like really close in the works handles already made hardware has already made.
This is close to what it's going to look like.
It's not 100 percentile.
Then the both sides aren't grounds.
We're still dialing in the process, but again, we're going to probably be sticking with rich light handles, mostly our own turned hardware, a good little lanyard hole if you want to add a lanyard lanyard to it, starting off with the tanto style blade and then going from there seeing what the seeing
what people think about it.
This will be our first fixed blade.

28:45
Offering.
We have done a chef knife in the past last year, but really we want to stick with the EDC solid community.
That looks so sweet.
I'll I'll tell you.
Well first of all tell us who you collaborated with.
The I'm sorry, Matthew Christensen, really great friend of mine.
Good.

29:02
Really great dude.
One of the best makers out there in my opinion one of the greatest and kindest guys as well.
He's he's been kind enough to come on this show a couple of times and show off his work and talk about it.
And as I was saying before I would, I would there there are a lot of things I would do to have a Matthew Christensen knife.
But I do love.
Fixed blade daily carry knives.
I have a a huge collection of them and I actually carry them and I wear them inside my my waistband.

29:34
But something like this looks like it could comfortably drop in the pocket in a in a some some sort of a very sturdy leather slip or or a or a kydex sheath.
It also I mean not only does it look like a great little utility knife, but it also looks like a great little.
You know, last ditch tactical knife, which is the kind of thing I like, you know?
Yeah, so it looks like a great all around her.
Thanks.
Uh yeah we're we're definitely happy with it.
As far as the story of this exact knife Matthew came out with this in 2018 and I I remember in 2018 even contacting someone and saying hey y'all need to get this in as a production model because this is a great design.

30:20
This is a a really good design fixed blade that has a lot of a lot of meat behind as far as like just it's it's a really I think it's going to be a hit I think everyone's going to like the the flow of this this knife.
It feels great in the handle.
He came out with it as a folder then he came out with it as a fixed blade and I've been bugging him trying to get it into production facility.
And now that we have one, I was like, hey man, let's get, let's get the party started.
So we we definitely we've been working on this honestly longer than we've been working on the Rogers.
It's just been something that's a slow burn as far as us getting to the point where we can do it and do it efficiently.
So it it's right at the pinnacle where it's going to be happening.

31:04
Pretty much any, any week now, but we've got to just get right past that.
We've got prototype, she's already made.
So as soon as we get stuff off the machines, we don't have to wait for kydex.
It's going to be going to be really cool to to get this out there.
It's it, it, it is a more difficult market to penetrate for sure.
You know folder, especially one with an access lock especially one with the names tactile and Richard Rodgers attached to it.
I mean that's a that is obviously a slam dunk because everyone wants folders, everyone wants something by Richard.

31:35
Murders and tactical or tactile.
I do apologize.
I see the other words so much that it just comes out.
But also they like the access lock now.
The fixed blade everyday carry fixed blade knife is something you were talking about a slow burn.
That's been a slow burn in the market and I feel like now is the right time for a company like you to collaborate with the maker like him to come out with something like this because it's it's starting to Crest in popularity.
The smaller and smaller and more stylish people knife companies are making fixed blades so that they can drop in your pocket.

32:11
Not everyone can walk around in suburbia with a knife on their belt as much as I would love to.
So I think that this is an idea whose time has come.
Yeah.
Before I worked in the knife industry I was in the oil field and whenever I was in the oilfield I had a a big fixed blade about this big in my strapped to my belt every day.
But I there's this is more my style now it's able to fit inside a pair of jeans go into the city.
Nobody's like staring at you like what the hell is he doing now in Texas obviously it's a little bit different nobody really cares but it's we want to try and get something that can be can be carried in urban urban environment and still.
Look clean, classy again.

32:53
Sticking with Tactiles, Tactiles feel of a clean, classy, slender, sleek, good design.
Right.
Right and and something that isn't those things and isn't the right size, but is just cool.
We'll get left at home and not used and and so I think all of those things are important.
So now with the leather sheath and with that with the rich light handle scales, are you still planning on keeping the whole package very thin?
I know kydex can go way thinner than leather but.
The thickness is about about the same as a Rockwall.

33:25
Maybe it's a it's a tad thicker.
So it's a tad thicker, but not not too crazy much.
So.
So once you add another sleep sheet to it, it is going to get thicker again by a little bit, but it's still going to be able to fit inside a pocket and it's not going to take over the entire pocket.
You should still be able to put the knife, put the sheath and still put a phone in the same pocket.
Yeah, that.
I mean that's really thin for a fixed blade.

33:52
I mean that's, that's awesome.
That's one of my.
I have a lot of fixed blades, small fixed blade knives that I love and would love to carry more often.
But oftentimes it just comes down to how thick the handle is and how long the handle is.
And it looks like this is well.
This is going to be perfect for my needs and.
That's all I care about, so no.

34:16
Matthew Christensen, man, his design eye is just killer and you can see it in the lines of that knife.
So this is the dread eye model and that's what we're going to be calling it as well.
Do you have ideas for other makers you'd like to get linked up with in the future?
There's a long list.
So the the previous brand as a part of I was able to work with 60 different makers, a lot of customs, a lot of productions as well.
And that list is a lot of really great friends with a lot of really good talent, and I'd love to work with a lot of them.
It's just in the process of growing this brand.

34:54
When's the right time?
When's the right time to to talk to people he's talked to?
Talked to quite a few designers and have made relationships with them.
It's just not quite the time to say, hey, let's get you on the books.
Yeah.
And sometimes, you know, they might be great designers and great makers, but maybe they don't, uh, you know, mesh with the tactile brand or or whatever.
Nothing against them.

35:19
It's just not the right fit or whatever.
Like I couldn't see tactile and Emerson getting together.
Even if you liked Emerson just doesn't seem like the right fit.
I just bought an Emerson protect the the ultimate from Blade HQ.
Yeah.
OK, this is great.
Great segue because I want to talk about Ultem and and variations and and such but this morning but it's not here.

35:43
You see seven, the auto protect and ohh that's so cool.
So so you recently released the the Bexar slip joint that we were just talking about in this gorgeous amber material called ultem and you still were able to mill it and do all this and tell us about that material.
Seems really kind of exotic.
Uh, so Alton is really, really cool plastic material that's industrial grade.
Let me go get it real quick.
It's right over here.
Well, as you get that, I remember looking at it and wondering, well, knowing what tactile does, figuring that it must be milled, but I don't know plastic like that to be milled, or have I?

36:30
I don't really know.
I've never made anything out of plastic like that.
But I always assume that.
Stuff like that.
Was molded, so I thought.
I thought that maybe milling this sort of plastic material with the friction and everything that's entailed would would would create some super challenges.
OK. O. Got it right here.

36:56
This is the ultimate slip joint.
And it's a translucent material.
It's food grade safe, but it's got really good rigidity, enough so that we can turn it into a folder.
So it's it's got enough good rigidity to be able to hold the mechanism that we need still keep the be machined which is extremely it's it's the number one issue.
It's just it has to be able to take the machining, be able to not crack not shatter, not fall apart whenever we're doing all the passes.
So this this has our signature tactile texture and it's translucent.
We also did a run of pins as well so.

37:41
So you release them at the same time, too.
It's just, it's a it's a fun, cool material.
It's an oddity in this industry to have something translucent.
So it's it's a a fun thing to work with.
Yeah.
Especially in a slip joint.
You know, we've seen the translucent scales on on, you know, modern tactical folders.

38:00
But to see it on a slip joint is cool just because it's kind of, you know, the opposite in the opposite spirit of a slip joint, which is old and opaque.
And you can't take it apart and you don't know what's in it.
Yeah.
So is this a trend that you and tactile hope to continue?
I notice you have DLC now you do a couple of things in copper, you got some special editions.
How does the, where does your appetite for variation end or are are you looking to make these as collectible as possible?
So I've got a pretty good array of kind of what we've done right now.

38:37
So we've got just standing titanium, we have the altium, we have bronze with.
Elsie Blade, we have deep full DLC.
We have rich light with standard blades.
So this is honestly this is one of my favorite.
It's just super lightweight.
It's kind of like the ultem but it it's not translucent.
I like I like adding that to my carrier quite often.

38:58
And then we also had the privilege of working with with carryology.
It really really well known really reputable bag bag community and we made a special beer for them as well.
We we plan on, we plan on leaning into it for sure.
We we want to work with new materials, we want to work with good materials and we want to make also different textures.
Speaking of that though, we really lean into that a lot with the Rockwall and worked with like our dealers.
We caught a few of our are really well and good established dealers reached out to us about getting custom textures, so we offered it to them.
So like Monkey Edge, a lot of people know about Monkey Edge.

39:42
It was right over here.
Just second ago we've done a monkey edge frag pattern.
We did a gun stock version for Knife Center, we did a Dragon scale version for knife Joy.
We did Japanese inspired version for Urban EDC.
And then we've also done what we are calling our seasonal release which is in tune with what we've done for tactile turn and done a texture that was limited release and available through our website for a certain amount of time.
And so we we definitely want to lean into offering different textures because that's our name.
Tactile textures has a has a unique feel, different different texture, different flavor for each each way of doing it.

40:25
Yeah, I mean it's endless.
The possibilities are endless.
And and also all of that milling has a purpose outside of looking so cool, which is, you know, that's the best of both worlds.
You're every, every different grip you put in there is a is a different and unique you know.
Pattern and I love that you mentioned the bag community when you're talking about carryology and that made me think of the pen community and the knife community.
I only ever really think of the knife community, but it comes up that there are enthusiasts for everything.
I'm sure there's a wrench community, you know.

41:01
Did you see that Spanner?
Oh my God.
You know, there's a community out there for everything.
So in your experience and and you've worked in well a couple of different industries, what is how would you?
Characterize the difference between, say, the pen community and the knife community.
Man, that's a that's a challenging transition.
So obviously being based off of a pin company, we had a lot of PIN collectors coming into the knife world.

41:31
Some of them didn't quite understand how it works, what to do, taking it apart just because it's it's different for them.
It's not that they're not smart or anything like that.
Just this is a new thing for them.
So transitioning somebody from a cool pen to transitioning them to a cool knife was not the easiest thing.
But we we managed to do quite a bit of that and kept a lot of the customer base and kept them happy.
I think they're they're great customers, they're a little bit different.
They're not going to be buying 15 knives just because that's they've bought 15 pins that's where, where they put their funds where.

42:14
Where.
Where their hobby is.
So it's it's a privilege and honor to be able to serve a community that's not just the knife community.
Same with Carryology, serving a community that has no not as in depth of a knowledge of of the knife industry and giving them an offering and showing them what it's about.
Good steel, good action, good feel, especially with a slip joint, the walk and talk, that's a lot of there's a first time dealing with decent slip joint.
So it's it's been a privilege and honor working with them.
I think knife enthusiasts, you know, there are a lot of adjacent hobbies like watches, pens, leather.

42:56
And I think that the common thread through all of those is an appreciation for craftsmanship and precision and.
Something.
That was around before electronics, you know?
I mean, it's just something that is craftsmanship.
Yeah, yeah, craftsmanship, but also old tech, you know, pens, watches, knives, old tech.
Like ancient tech, but still doing the job it's been doing all along.
And in this modern context, man, just looking at these.

43:31
Jim is scrolling down your Instagram page and just looking at these different setups.
I I am a sucker for seeing a beautiful knife like this, like that shot to, you know, with the notebook in the pen and and they're, and they're kind of casually piled on each other on a desk next to a watch and all that.
And these kind of knives that you guys make are perfect.
They're like gentlemen's watches.
They fit perfectly in this environment.
And I don't know for those of us who like those.
Those finer things, your knives fit in perfectly.

44:06
Yeah.
So we we definitely again coming from the PIN world, we leaned in that direction a little bit.
I think the Maverick kind of leans more middle of the road knife industry and a little bit less away from that.
And I'm, I'm excited to to open up an offering for that community just because this is a little bit more of a working man's knife than or a blue collar knife.
Not working man, everyone works but it's it's a just different offering and I think we we plan on.
Trying to make something for everybody, not just people that like really high end watches.
Like I got bit by that bug a couple years ago and it was not a nice bug to be bit by.

44:47
Tutor in the shot?
Yeah, I got a tutor.
Yeah.
I really love tutors.
A great brand, really a lot of respect for them.
Cool.
I know Will's got us in.

44:58
He really loves that as well.
Matt, after I bought my tutor bought bought the exact same watch as well just because it's a a great watch.
We've the whole community at the shop just really likes high high end Craftsman stuff just because that's what we make, that's what we do.
We have a lot of respect for other industries that do it well as well.
Being a manufacturer in Texas, in the United States.
Someone who you know, a company that makes all your own work.
Um, and and you have the scale of operation that you have, what would you say from your perspective are the main hindrances to starting a more thriving United States manufacturer knife manufacturing industry?

45:48
A man, uh, labor costs.
That's the biggest, the biggest problem.
Just because we're not playing even playing field whenever it comes to that, whenever it comes to like machines, when it comes to materials, every everyone plays kind of uneven playing field.
But Labour's really what boils it down.
You can scroll back in some of the Instagram accounts on some of these Chinese knife makers and other international knife makers as well, and you have a group and a room full of people with bad lighting.
All just using stones to hand satin a finish a blade.
We can't afford to do that, nor do we want to treat our employees to those work environments.

46:27
You come to our shop, it's clean, you come to our shop, it's bright.
You come to our shop and everybody has the tools, material, space, adequate equipment that they need and we have to pay them because that's what we have to do.
So I think that the the reason why we can't offer the same offering for the same price tag.
Is because of that and it's kind of kind of sad, but it also challenges us as a knife brand to do something different and to make something unique and to also tell our story, our story of American craftsmanship, our story of the people behind behind the scenes.
We created an Instagram account, tactile Texas made just to tell the story of behind the scenes of both brands.
So we've we've enjoyed doing that and want to lean more into that as well.
Yeah, I think I think the better way to look at it is as an in as an inspiration for other companies to start up and kind of do similar things as opposed to you know.

47:33
Well, I don't know.
As opposed to hoping that some sort of OEM, you know, industry will pop up here and people will be able to have their designs made here as opposed to over there, maybe that's not the goal.
Maybe the goal is for more shops like yours to follow your suit.
Let me ask you about any successful venture, especially business, has to have a fair amount of outreach so that people know that they exist, so that people know about their new products and whether to trust them or not.
How important to have shows like Blade Show and others been for tactile getting their brand out there.
So currently tactile only does blade show and USN gathering and blade show W those are really the three shows we attend just because they're they're designed more for the production side of things.
So we we have the ability to offer and show our products to the people that are really looking for that.

48:30
So it's it's been invaluable to be able to do that.
And show them in person, meet the dealers, meet the customers face to face, shake their hands, let them see our crew.
Because our crew is the people that man our booth.
We're not paying people to go to a show and run a booth for us.
We're there ourselves and we're there in person.
You get to meet the entire team, the designers, the manufacturers, the Assembly manager, everybody like the show played West.
This weekend we're going to have me will the owner, Matt, Kevin.

49:05
Michael Palamore, who who is also the Assembly production manager and our production manager that just started, Shane, he's going to be there as well at the show.
So we're going to have a crew of seven people at the show that are all just there coming from our job at.
We leave Thursday at 9:00 to fly out and get their work Friday, Saturday, fly home Sunday, get back to the shop on Monday and it's the crew.
The people that are making your products are the people that are that are shaking your hand.
They're selling it to you.
That's cool.
Yeah.

49:40
I well, I got a chance to meet you in person.
I'm at will in person.
I met Matt and then I met some others too.
But yeah, what a great.
I even met your dad, I think.
I mean, it's so cool.
That's that's what I love about those kind of shows anyway you you really get.

49:54
You get to you get a taste of the personalities behind of these things that we love, that we collect.
So before we start rolling, you told me about a show that you guys are doing an Invitational on November 5th.
Tell me all about that.
Yeah.
So tactile knife Company just was like, hey, we have this big facility, we have a big break room.
We were gonna just host a little get together.
So I phoned some friends, was like, hey, do you want to set up and sell some stuff during this get together?

50:23
I was expecting we get like 150. hundred people.
If if we do that and I invited some friends makers all just kept saying yes.
So I was like well, let me just lean into a little bit and then it got to the point where like I had to invite pretty much everybody I knew.
So I did and we now we have a list of 25 people from cardiology to.
Monterey Bay knives production brand as well carry blades.
Peter Carey coming, Richard Rogers, Matthew Christensen's coming as well.
We've got Sharknife, Co Edison, really great dude, really great designer, great maker, Starling gear, Kinison knives, borka blades, marfione, custom knives, Hank Greenberg with black side customs, Jamie Williams with JRW gear.

51:12
We've got a a good gambit of makers.
Ardent Knives actually works.
The shopping makes knives as well.
It's it's a crazy list of of people really great guys and we're we're honored to to turn it into a show.
We're probably going to change the time slot next year and make it where it doesn't conflict because right now it's two weeks after California custom and two weeks before Nashville customized show.
So it's a it's a bad slot.
But we also do plan on trying to if this turns into an event turns into a show making it focused on USA made and having it if you don't make a knife in the United States.

51:47
If you don't make a product in the United States, then you're not going to be invited to this show and really highlight and showcase the best that we can do.
Wow.
I mean that that guest list is insane.
That sounds like a great party my God.
And a great place to be a fly on the wall too and just hear the conversations between the luminaries.
Also good, good chance for you to to to to start getting some future projects lined up, no doubt.
And we'll have shop towards as well for anybody that attends so you can come and see the shop.

52:24
We're going to actually have some machines running so you can kind of see the.
Process of what it takes to do what we do.
So this is something that's 100% open to the knife public.
Uh, we're gonna have to sell tickets just because of the venue space.
We don't, we don't wanna get overrun, but they will be available in the tactile knife companies website.
They that listing should go up this week, which should be before this video is uploaded.
So as a company that is so community oriented and and you know a large part of your identity is is based in your home and in your locality, what does does your company feel?

53:04
Do you do you do anything publicly?
Is there like a a feeling of what am I trying to get at civic?
Do you have civic engagement beyond just the knife world?
Do you, do you, is there some sort of?
Protexis thing do you, do you, do you understand what I'm getting at?
Well, we are all are all living in Texas and most of us are are Texas through and through, but we don't have any like specific thing that we do at the moment.
Right now we're still in the process of trying to get this brand up and off the ground.

53:34
Whenever we do, whenever we get to the point where we have the ability to, we do plan on being more involved in those aspects.
I mean you already are, I mean as a as I was asking the question, I was just thinking well there they are a manufacturer they're bringing.
Clubs they're bringing and then you're bringing well you've just increased your space so you're adding to the tax roll you're bringing this big so you're already doing it.
It's a it's a question I'm used to asking in my in my other job because it is a big part of what people do.
It's like how do they interface with the community in in in a way that they get what they want IE customers but also they're they're they're presenting and I would say that you are offering more to the community and the knife community than.
Then they give back, if you will, because you're you are offering these other things like this Invitational and everything made in the United States, and it's inspirational, thanks.
We also try and be as active as we can on Facebook.

54:35
Facebook being kind of weird Facebook groups is a is a really great part of the knife community that gets overlooked by a lot of people's instagrams.
Not really a community aspect as much as it was anymore as it used to be.
And it's kind of moved over to Facebook.
So we've got to really.
Back to Facebook group for both the knives and the pens.
So what's the next big move for for tactile you're like hey, we just started and we just moved into a giant factory.
What, what next move, but I mean what where do you want to see the brand head in the next five years.

55:07
So whenever Will bought the the building that we're in currently, he bought the whole building and we're only using about 27,000 square feet of it, it's 40,000 square feet.
So we we plan on expanding and just growing as we can and growing at as far as our team as far as our equipment as far as.
Our ability and trying our best again to limit the amount of outsourcing or outside work that we have to have done on our materials.
So we're we're looking at trying to innovate and bring as much of it as we can inside, inside of our our four walls, inside of our building and to get people working for us that are skilled and able to manage those tasks.
As you move forward and and more and more products are added to your lineup and you're trying more and more new things and collaborations.
Will the Rockwall and Bexar always kind of be there as you're standing as standards or is that's unknown.
Yeah.

56:05
So as everyone like just look at every every other production brand in the knife industry like the the core knives that they started off with may not be the knives that they're selling right now.
You do end up having cores like for example Chris Reeves has the sebenza.
Is the sebenza ever going to be not produced?
I doubt it.
Well the number change probably but we we don't know if the Rockwall.
We don't know if the Bexar are those iconic designs that are going to stick and stick with us forever.
I hope that they do.

56:38
It's funny because that's that's what I was thinking of.
So bend this, this to me has that quality.
Like other knives you could make come and go for for whatever reason, we want to try this out or we we're working with this designer for a little while.
But this seems this does to me seem like a core product because it's so.
It's simple, beautiful.
It's a perfect little EDC and I even have the old flipper version.
So yeah I it just feels like like that kind of a timeless knife.

57:08
So nicely done.
Nicely done, Michael.
Well I want to thank you for coming on the Knife Junkie podcast again and bringing us up to date on tactile Knife Company.
I I for 1:00 AM really excited about Matthew Christiansen's fixie but also the Maverick looks very cool as that's I'd like to see that that the folders.
Have gotten a little bit larger there and and are a little less and I don't mean this as an insult, but precious than this.
You know with the rich light handle and the and and and the washers and a little bit more of a of a working class knife.
It's very exciting to me.

57:42
So great things coming.
Congratulations on all your success thus far.
Thank you.
It's it's a team effort.
I couldn't, we couldn't do anything without the entire team that we have.
We really blessed with that.
All right.

57:55
Well, thanks, Michael.
Take care and say hi to will for me.
Thank you.
Alright.
Got a question or comment?
Call the knife junkies listener line at 724-466-4487. There he goes.
Ladies and gentlemen, Michael Miller of the Tactile Knife Company.

58:14
Really looking forward to checking out some of the new things coming out from them.
And frankly I'd love to check out a a thumb stud version of the Rockwall.
I haven't.
I've kind of checked out everything else they have, but I've never held that one in hand.
I look forward to it.
So please join us next week for another great interview with another awesome Knife luminary and join us on Wednesday.
For the midweek supplemental and Thursday for Thursday night Knives right here, 10:00 PM Eastern Standard Time.

58:46
All right.
For Jim working his magic behind the Switcher, I'm Bob DeMarco saying until next time, don't take dull for an answer.
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59:29
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