The Knife Junkie Podcast is the place for knife newbies and knife junkies to learn about knives and knife collecting. Twice per week Bob DeMarco talks knives. Call the Listener Line at 724-466-4487; Visit https://theknifejunkie.com.
©2024, Bob DeMarco
The Knife Junkie Podcast
https://theknifejunkie.com

Transcribe Your Podcasts and Videos: https://theknifejunkie.com/magic (affiliate link)

Announcer [00:00:03]:
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast, your weekly dose of knife news and information about knives and knife collecting.

Bob DeMarco [00:00:11]:
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast. I'm Bob DeMarco. On this edition of the show, I'm speaking with Chas Fisher of Fisher Blade Company. If his name sounds familiar, maybe it's because Chas was a guest on the show a little over a year and a half ago as general manager of Boker USA. Since then, Chas left Boker, moved to Montana, and established a new knife company with brother and knife maker John Fischer. Fisher Blade Company's first release is an aggressive and practical pocket carry fixed blade, but it's not your average EDC. We'll let Chas explain and describe his experience traversing the knife landscape from huge corporate manufacturer to small batch producer. But first, be sure to like, comment, subscribe, and hit the notification bell, and, of course, download the show to your favorite podcast app so you can listen on the go.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:07]:
And if you wanna help support the show, you can do so by going to the knifejunkie.com/patreon. Again, that's the knifejunkie.com/patreon.

Announcer [00:01:23]:
Knife themed shirts, hoodies, mugs, water bottles, and more. The knifejunkie.com/shop. You know you're a knife if you plan your vacation around Blade Show. You know you're a knife if you plan your vacation around Blade Show.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:27]:
Chas, welcome to the show.

Chas Fisher [00:01:29]:
Thanks, Bob. It's great to be here.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:31]:
It's my pleasure. It's good to have you back. And under these circumstances, I wanna congratulate you for, I know you didn't just form Fisher Blades, but you're really in a in a current phase of blossoming. Congratulations, sir.

Chas Fisher [00:01:45]:
Well, thanks. It's it's been a huge amount of fun, and it's great to reengage with a bunch of the the people in the knife community, people like you, so it's it's really cool to be back at it. Slingin' blades.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:58]:
Slingin' blades. Well, Fisher Blades is doing some really cool stuff, and a lot of it is very up my alley. And, some of the some of the other, people on YouTube who like the kind of knives I like are responding, very positively, to this knife. But before we get to that and Fisher Blades, I I do wanna mention, as I mentioned in the intro, you were at Boker USA, which is a, you know, Poker is a giant, age old company, as far as corporations go. How let's let's, wrap up the chapter from the last time we spoke, and how did things go with poker?

Chas Fisher [00:02:35]:
Things were great with poker. You know, I was brought in when when Boker really needed some guidance in the US and needed some strategic planning about how to take it to the next level. The, the the founder of the company had had really built it up from nothing, done an he had done an extraordinary job, you know, taking it to where it is in the US. And, I think he needed some relief, and I think he needed, sort of an American perspective to, to lay out some plans for how Booker was gonna get to that next level. And so that was really the world that I filled. I came in and I did fill that, You know, I I created a plan that, was maybe a bit, on the bold side for them, because I think they're a bit conservative, which is fine, and and I respect that and appreciate it. And, you know, that, once that was done, it left room for me to, to move on and for them to move on, and, I I think that they're doing a great job of of fulfilling their potential in the marketplace. They're they're really very, very strong in a few categories, and I admire that a lot.

Bob DeMarco [00:03:48]:
Yeah. I I admire the company a lot too for a couple of reasons. One of which, the very first Switchblade I ever had, my brother got for me when he went to Germany when we were in high school in the eighties. That was a Boker. And, and then my all time grail folder is a Charles Marlow knife, and there's no way I'm ever gonna have a real one. So I I have the squeal, and that and that, hooks me up. So I like I like how they have their tentacles out everywhere. Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:04:16]:
It it seems like from what I've seen there, definitely, moving towards a more EDC kinda like, and I love that. Bringing as much people as many people into the knife carrying world as possible is good to me. And a lot of the times, you have to approach it in a gentle way. But I do know something about you. You are a lifelong martial artist. You're a hunter. You're an outdoorsman. We like knives for a variety of reasons, and a big one is that sort of tactical and self defense role.

Bob DeMarco [00:04:47]:
So I I feel like that's a a huge part of what you're doing now. How how was that part of your transition, away from the larger corporations and into your own company?

Chas Fisher [00:05:02]:
It's, what it does, those and I do have, you know, a few very deep interests, you know, and and, martial training, unarmed and armed, and armed. Combative training has been a part of my life for probably 30 years, you know, maybe even longer. But there are other things that I do too. Like you mentioned, you know, I'm a very keen hunter. So, I think that what, what we're trying to do with Fish of Blades is really hew very closely to a purpose first design, philosophy in the knives that we make. I think that one of the issues that bigger brands have, and I saw it at SOG, I've seen it at many brands, not even, you know, not just knife brands, one of the problems they can have as big organizations is that they compromise in order to achieve market reach. And they'll take product that might be very specialized and very, very purpose designed, and they'll start making compromises so that it will appeal to a broader group of people. And nothing necessarily wrong with that, but that's not something that I wanted to do nor that my brother wants to do.

Chas Fisher [00:06:10]:
And so we decided to make, we've got 3 pillars that Fisher Blades rests on and one of those pillars is purpose first design. So everything that we, every knife that we make really starts with defining what is that knife's purpose. Now the purpose could be one thing or it could be many things. The purpose could be EDC, which is many things, Or it could be like in the case of the Beckler covert, self defense, you know, a daily defensive daily carry knife. So, it's really informed how we're approaching the the knives that we are designing and then producing.

Bob DeMarco [00:06:47]:
Now you mentioned your brother, John Fisher, who, from what I know, man of adventure type like yourself, and a and a knife maker, making some beautiful handmade outdoors knives. Now he was the man that you partnered up with, to do Fisher blades, and, well, that's very convenient because he has the last same name. But more than that, the 2 of you must share a lot being brothers. I know my brother and I, though we're very different, just have a lot. Tell me about, the decision to partner up with him and, how that how that all came to pass.

Chas Fisher [00:07:24]:
Well, you know, we've been talking about it for years. We've shared, you know, our ideas about ideal knives and, you know, of course, we've had many adventures and misadventures with each other, over the years. So I'd say that, you know, if if, my brother and I were a Venn diagram, we'd have an area of great overlap, but then some individual areas that, are unique to each of us. And, the more we talked about knives and what we wanted to do, we each wanted to do with our knives, we realized that that area of overlap was significant enough to to leverage so that we could work together and, you know, make a product that we could each buy into. But the non overlap presented opportunities for us to, leverage the whole thing. And, you know, that might sound kind of, you know, corporateese, some of that language, but it's true, right? You know, I I don't have you know, my brother is a big dual sport, adventure bike rider, and I've I've done some of it, but not, like, what he has done. He has

Bob DeMarco [00:08:26]:
done some

Chas Fisher [00:08:28]:
you go out into the backcountry, you know, with a singletrack or double track, you know, single track in his case, and do multiple day trips in the backcountry on a motorcycle. And, you know, he's he's done a lot of that, and so he's incredibly experienced in the backcountry on a a bike and a a motorcycle. And, you know, I don't have that and, you know, of course he doesn't have my martial training that I bring to it. But we each love knives and we we each are very, we're devoted to this idea that a a tool, whatever the tool is, should have a really well defined purpose. Otherwise, it's gonna be too much of a compromise. Every tool really is a compromise, but, we want to minimize that. We want to really do a good job of defining how it's going to be used and design what we think is going to be just right for that purpose. So like I said, that's one of our 3 pillars that we, operate under.

Bob DeMarco [00:09:30]:
That's the perfect segue. What are the 3 pillars?

Chas Fisher [00:09:34]:
Well, purpose first design, as I mentioned. Batch production quality is another, and I can talk about that in a minute, and made in the USA or not at all. So, the batch quality thing, and you and I have had some discussions about this before, we, in our production line, because we, you know, our brother makes handmade knives too, but in these these production knives that we're making, they are done in batches and they're fairly small batches, you know, several 100 to, you know, you know, no more than a1000 in a batch. And, what that allows us to do is really scrutinize every single knife that that that gets shipped out. I mean, it goes through both of our hands multiple times, checking it for quality, checking it for, you know, everything that we do to those blades from the laser cut to the blade grind, you know, to the the scale fit, to the edge, you know, I mean, everything. Everything gets many eyes on it many times. And so we are able to catch stuff that a big company just simply doesn't it doesn't have the resources to do that. It can't with the kind of quantities that they are they're dealing with.

Chas Fisher [00:10:48]:
So we think that batches and we're not, of course, the only ones doing that. A lot of people are doing it, and they're that's good because I think it makes for some really good quality.

Bob DeMarco [00:10:58]:
So what what's the benefit of going batch to batch?

Chas Fisher [00:11:03]:
Well, it makes for some discreet sets of knives that you don't you know, we're not making thousands of them and then then picking or or having 1,000 of them made. You know, we we, we shepherd it through the whole through the whole process. We don't do everything in house, but, we we, you know, shepherd everything through every step of the process. We're not getting thousands of knives and then pulling, say, a percentage of them, single digit percentage to check for seconds or to check for problems. And then assuming every knife in that in that batch or, you know, in that bigger batch is, is good to go. So it it gets many eyes your eyes on it many times, hands on it many times, and so we're not check yeah. We're checking a percentage of our blades, and it's a 100%.

Bob DeMarco [00:11:50]:
That's a huge difference from, where you were before. So whether it's dog or Boca, because their numbers are giant. And, yeah, I never I never really thought about that, but they're looking at a small percentage of what they're letting out the door and assuming

Chas Fisher [00:12:06]:
Yep.

Bob DeMarco [00:12:06]:
That everything in between is just as good.

Chas Fisher [00:12:09]:
Yeah. And that's always a roll of the dice. You know, it can go really well or it can go really, really wrong, and I've seen it go wrong. Of course, I've seen it go well, but, yeah, that's, that's not something we we wanna roll the dice on.

Bob DeMarco [00:12:22]:
Something I like about the batch, batch production concept is that it allows for, nimbleness in between batches. Say you discover, oh, I don't like the length of this guard, or we need to change the angle grind. Whatever it is, you can do it between batches. You're not married to 10,000 of the same type.

Chas Fisher [00:12:46]:
Yeah. You're exactly right. I I mean, I can give you an example that of of that. Beckwith Covert, you know, which you've been, had in your hands and you've been using, we were discovering that a certain amount of these sheaths had some issues with fit and, you know, not a whole lot of handle is is inside that sheath. And so for this next batch that that we're running, which is being run right now, we we just increased that dimension enough so that there's more of the, the handle inside the sheath, and we've completely eliminated that problem. And it wasn't a problem that found its way to the user, It was really a problem with rejects that we had with our sheets, which, of course, we don't want. And, you know, that benefited us. But at some point, you know, we are going to, I'm sure, make an improvement to this that will benefit the, the user.

Bob DeMarco [00:13:39]:
Okay. Well, since you just showed it, let's talk about the Beckwith covert, the first knife, from Fisher Blades in in its, current formation, let's say, with with you and John together. And, it's a beauty. It is a pocket fixed blade self defense knife. Take it from here.

Chas Fisher [00:14:03]:
Okay. So, we started with what is its purpose, and its purpose is to be carried in pocket. Its primary purpose, you know, as as a blade is to be used in self defense. And, from there, kind of all the decisions about how big it was, what kind of what kind of blade shape we were using, you know, what kind of steel, what the scales were going to be, all of that sort of radiated from that first defining of what the purpose of the knife was. We knew it we wanted a fixed blade, by the way, because we didn't wanna have to go into, into a folder right away. We might do that later, but we're not gonna do it now. So it had to be fixed. In order for it to be comfortable in the pocket and be worn every day, it can't be gigantic.

Chas Fisher [00:14:53]:
We're not talking about 4, 6 inch blade. We're not talking about handle that's enormous. We you know, it needs to fit in there. And, I was pretty adamant that the pocket not be made obsolete for other things, meaning, you know, that's not the only thing in the pocket. I wanted people to be able to use their pockets for other things because anything that's a disincentive to carrying that knife, eventually is gonna wear you down. You're gonna say, ah, that thing is too big, it's too bulky, I can't put my keys in my front pocket and that's what I want them, or whatever. And they're gonna not carry it, and that's then it's not fulfilling its purpose. Right? Its purpose, was supposed to have been, to to protect you if something went wrong.

Chas Fisher [00:15:37]:
So, that's where we started. It ended up being about 7 inches. We wanted full hand grip. That was important to us, because for self defense, you know, 3 fingers is just not a lot and not enough. And, it helped define, or establish or inform what blade shape we we put on it. And, you know, as you know and we've discussed, it's got a, sort of a modified I think some some folks call this an American tanto, And I do call it a tanto, not a tanto. Somebody recently on YouTube recommended me for that, but it's it's tanto, it's not tanto. And the reason for the Tanto blade is that after having done some pretty extensive pig carcass testing with different knives over the years, I just did another one the other day, by the way, I found that the intersection of the proximal edge here and the distal edge here, that's what we call those, the intersection of those is what we call the taco intersection.

Chas Fisher [00:16:45]:
And when you're using this knife the way it's designed with a thumb ramp to push as you're slashing, you get a huge concentration of force at that intersection and you get greater, greater cut depth on that. And so that's that's why the tanto blade shape came about. And then the the thumb ramp is there for that articulation. The geometry of the blade is is, there to facilitate that, right? So it's it's not just a straight across knife, right? It's got a, it goes that way, and that facilitates the articulation as well. The angle of the the distal edge to the spine is acute enough so that, you know, when required and you're having to stab into organic matter, you get good penetration there as well. The finger guard is there to protect the hands, and I think I might have discussed this with you at some point. In one of my carcass testing encounters, stabbed into a carcass, knife cut the one of the vertebrae, into a very sharp edge. My hand went all the way into that cut and, sliced my finger open to the bone, and I thought, yeah, I think I'd really like a finger guard on the next knife that I, that I might have to stab organic matter with.

Chas Fisher [00:18:08]:
And so that's why the finger guard is there. The, the quillan, so I call this, is also called quillan, and there are other other terms for this kind of hooky thing here. That's there to facilitate the draw when you draw the knife out, so you get an indexed draw on the knife, ready to go. You don't have to reposition it in your hand.

Bob DeMarco [00:18:29]:
One thing that I like about, Quillian I I always say Quillian, so I'll use that, but, the Quillian here and then this bump on the back, gives you a great pinch point. Of course, I like to pull it reverse a lot. But, either either way, it gives you something on the other side so that you're not, so that it's evened out. I like that bump here. It's a subtle, addition, but something, I I guess I haven't seen too much of, and and I think it's, valuable.

Chas Fisher [00:19:01]:
Yeah. Well, I mean, you're you're absolutely right about that. One of the things that, I tried to focus on a lot on this knife in particular was the draw. And a lot of people, you know, even combative knife guys who do a lot of training in this, do a lot of work using the blade, train a lot using the blade, with a trainer or an actual blade, and they don't put as much energy into the draw. And, I know with some of my other armed, combatives work that I have done, with with firearms that, you know, getting that thing out and in play is, that's step 1. It almost doesn't matter how well you can, it doesn't matter how well you can use that thing, whatever that tool is. If you can't get it into play, you know, it just simply doesn't matter. You're you're you're in trouble.

Chas Fisher [00:19:53]:
And so being able to draw and draw, reliably pre index so that there's no moving around on the thing after you pull it out, so you don't have to. You could if you I guess if you wanted to. That was incredibly important to me. So that's why the the knife sits at its height in the pocket. That's why the quillion is there. That's why the bump. You're exactly right for, for reverse grip draw. That turned out to be actually an important part of that when you're gripping like this, pull out or edge out reverse, or even edge in reverse.

Chas Fisher [00:20:28]:
Still, you want it there, it facilitates it. That's also why we put jimping in this area. I know it's hard to see, but in this area as well as this area so that, you you get even that added security to it as well.

Bob DeMarco [00:20:44]:
The you told me something very interesting when we were talking about this knife on the phone, and you were talking about some r and d you did with, someone that you train who's, way better at you in Brazilian jiu jitsu. You're teaching him, I'm not sure what you're teaching him, but he's he's like, oh, his expertise is BJJ. You guys got together. We're sparring. We're rolling, and you had the trainer for this in your pocket. Tell me about how that worked out and how it influenced your design after that moment.

Chas Fisher [00:21:16]:
Yeah. Well, first off, I'm a striker, not a grappler, not a submission guy. But I use this student because he is he is, he's pretty proficient at, Brazilian jiu jitsu. So and he knows how to tie me up. And, so we were playing around, and I just wanted I was curious about the access, my access to that blade. I needed to test the the whole theory of front pocket, you know, kind of laterally located front pocket. And and so I just said, hey, you know, put put me in a variety of positions that I'm gonna hate. Let me see if I can reach, reach this knife.

Chas Fisher [00:21:53]:
And I don't even honestly know what happened, but he, he got me in a position where my knee actually was up against my chest. And the the the way that that particular, that prototype sheath was for that for that trainer knife, it it it sat straight up in the pocket and it it kind of bumped right up into my hip flexor. And when my knee was at my chest, I could not access the knife. I'm like, oh, man. This is this is a problem. I gotta change that. Right? I gotta fix that. And so that's when I introduced a slight can't, you know, like on this side, if I'm paring on this side, I canted the, I canted the pommel of the knife slightly this way so that it just rides just barely outboard of the crease of my, leg to the to the pelvis, so that when my knee is at my chest now, I have access to the palm.

Chas Fisher [00:22:49]:
So that's that's why we ended up with that.

Bob DeMarco [00:22:51]:
I I absolutely love that story. I love hearing that kind of, research and development kind of story, especially when it comes out of, some sort of, organic situation like that. Oh, let's let's roll around. Let me see if I can still and then boom. Oh, I didn't think of this. I have to angle the handle. And that has been the one, nonstarter for me with the reverse grip. You know, I I've said many times I like that reverse grip parry, but that's the one thing I've become aware of is that it does angle inward.

Bob DeMarco [00:23:22]:
So Yeah. You know, maybe if I get in a jujitsu match, I better have another knife on me somewhere else if I'm carrying

Chas Fisher [00:23:30]:
that way. You know, it's, you can't solve for every problem. Right? And, I I realize that. There is, no matter what antidote you're you're designing and no. Let's face it. That's what this is. This is an antidote to to something. And that antidote is not going to to to cure every every problem that you might encounter.

Chas Fisher [00:23:52]:
And so there are a lot of different ways that people can carry this knife. There are a lot of different ways that they can utilize it, they can draw it, and, you know, really, if you if you like, reverse grip, you know, edge out or edge in, figure out a way where you can get it, the most times, the easiest way. And we're on board with that. You know, we're developing some other carry options for this knife. Some are belt, some are inside the waistband, some are appendix. So we've got some more coming in terms of sheet options for that knife, so that to accommodate just, you know, people like you.

Bob DeMarco [00:24:27]:
Well, actually, I appreciate that because I who doesn't love options? But, I've also grown to love, not even grown. I mean, pretty much immediately love drawing this in this, edge in Picall reverse grip. The handle is set up perfectly for it. My hand, which is medium by all accounts, fits perfectly in the handle. So so to me, it's like like you said, you can't solve for everything and and not every you know, you buy a screwdriver, and and a regular one is not the kind that can get into that little corner under the sink. Exactly. You have a specialized tool for that. But but what you wanna do is make a tool, or in this case a knife, that fits the most amount of situation.

Bob DeMarco [00:25:13]:
And I think this with the pocket carry goes, a a great length to doing that. Describe to me why on the on your first outing you went you went pocket carry. I understand why you went fixed blade, but I wanna talk about that too. Fixed blade versus folder, but also why the pocket carry?

Chas Fisher [00:25:35]:
Well, you know, I'll reveal one of my own biases, and that is that for a knife that I am gonna have on me every day, that whose purpose is self defense, and just the way I live my life, you know, I I I really mostly spend it in urban areas, and, walking around with 2 fixed blade knives on my belt is just not it's not an easy thing for me to do. I mean, I could do it, you know, but, it would be a little awkward and stuff would get caught because I'm getting in and out of cars and seat belts and, you know, carrying a pack and and all that kind of stuff. So I wanted what I wanted was something that would not interfere with my life the way I mostly live it, and, pocket carry really was was ideal for that. And I'm not against, belt carry at all. It's, you know, I I do belt carry knives for for other reasons, but for for daily carry, it needs to be something that you're gonna be able to do literally every day. You know, you should not leave home without it, in my view. And, like I said, any disincentive to carrying it every day, you know, eventually you're gonna give into that, you're gonna leave it at home, and who knows, that might be the one day in your life that you need that thing. And, because it doesn't happen very often, you know, so it might not have ever happened to any of us, but if it happens to me, I want access to that thing.

Bob DeMarco [00:26:59]:
I've experimented, in my life recently, with carrying kind of ridiculously large knives, and and in my case, they've been concealed and and and that lasts about half a day. And then I'm like, this is totally uncomfortable. Can't make this work. But if you have it on your belt and you're the guy walking around town with 2 knives on your belt, then you're that guy. And we we also have to, you know, we're we all love knives, but we we also don't wanna alienate ourselves and other people. We wanna blend in a little various ways, but I I pocket carry for fixed blades, and I think that it is the way to normalize fixed blades because everyone carry anyone who carries a knife daily has it in their pocket most likely already. And and most likely, they have it clipped to the to their pocket. So it's a very short, distance between that and this.

Bob DeMarco [00:28:01]:
And this is not this is way more legal than people think. People have this assumption that fixed blades are less legal than folders, and, actually, it's the other way around. You can get away with this in way more jurisdictions across the country than a folder.

Chas Fisher [00:28:19]:
Yeah. That's that's true. It's it it can get kinda complex, and, you know, it's, of course, different by state and even municipality. Yep. But I think that, you know, one of the big one of the things to look out for if you're trying to follow the law is concealability is concealedness. And the knife is concealed. There are many states and jurisdictions where just it being concealed, whether it's a folder or a fixed, is a problem. And, and so, you know, for example, in Seattle, where, you know, I spend the majority of my time, fixed blades are not illegal, but a but concealed fixed blades are problematic.

Chas Fisher [00:29:01]:
And, you know, I wanted to avoid that. I, you know, I don't wanna encourage people to to break the law. So having that you know, having both the clip visible and, you know, the pommel of the knife visible, you know, automatically, well, it's not concealed. It's there. It's obvious. And so that was a consideration as well. That was another reason for that pocket carry is that if it is on your belt and you've got something covering it, well, technically, you know, you know, the the cops could get you for concealing that. And I don't, you know, I don't want that to happen to people who live in a place like Seattle, for example.

Bob DeMarco [00:29:41]:
So you're you're pretty strident in talking about how this knife is a, self defense knife. It's, for for, getting you know, for it's for the worst situation. It's a tactical thing. And let me just head this off. I gotta say it also makes because I'm not getting in fights often and because the heat treat on this is awesome and I'm not really worried about damaging it. I use it for EDC tasks. It happens to be great and I I hope I'm not disappointing in saying so. About your time.

Bob DeMarco [00:30:13]:
It does make a great everyday carry knife. I mean, the blade shape is perfect for so many things. But tell me tell me about the philosophy, like, behind the blade and and how you feel about EDC stuff.

Chas Fisher [00:30:25]:
Yeah. I'll tell you how I feel. I I'm I'm okay with it. I've come to peace with it. You're not the first person to do it. My brother has actually been EDC ing it and using it to open Bob. And, you know, I gotta shake I gotta shake my head to death. But, hey.

Chas Fisher [00:30:38]:
It's, it's how he wants to use it, and that's fine. I do think that the tanto is really cool. The the that tanto intersection makes for a great box opener

Bob DeMarco [00:30:47]:
because,

Chas Fisher [00:30:47]:
you know, you're not poking, you know, the tip of the blade in, and you just get a cup of tape and that is I I think that if people wanna use it for that, sure, go for it. If however you're serious about the self defense thing, I would encourage people at the very least to get good at sharpening it because, you know, a dull blade can still do some damage, obviously, but a really dull blade, you know, it might make the difference between, you know, what they're trying to achieve with that bad person and, you know, between achieving it and not achieving it. And so, and you know, because we've talked about this, both of my blades that are self defense blades, and, you know, these days, it's the the covert, I don't use for anything else there, you know, there I sharpened them. My brother sharpened, you know, a whole bunch of them and I sharpened a few and, they never they don't get used for anything. So I know, 100 a 100%, I'm not dealing with any sort of problem with that edge.

Bob DeMarco [00:31:51]:
On your Instagram page, you have a picture of a leather biker jacket that's been slashed up by one of these. I'm not sure if it if it was by you or by a customer, but it really shows the power of of, well, that you call it the Tanto intersection, but, you know, how well this thing slashes. And, leather is one of those materials that, you could slip off of easily, if if you've got if your edge is not in in the right condition. So I do understand your, philosophy of keeping it sharp, keeping it clean, and keeping it ready to go, so that you can do that. You know?

Chas Fisher [00:32:32]:
Yeah. That that's, that actually was a pretty thick leather jacket when we put up a pig carcass, so pig testing. And so, we were testing the Covert's ability to penetrate that leather, and how effective it was both at thrusts and stabs as well as, penetrating cuts. And it it did very, very well. It was a sharp it was a fresh edge.

Bob DeMarco [00:32:58]:
Okay. So I I have never, unfortunately and I'd like to I would love to do this at some point, but I've never done that, PIC testing, live, you know, fleshy testing kind of stuff. What did you what have you learned from that sort of testing? That is, your your stabbing and slashing knives to test them into a pig carcass that's moving and dynamic and everything. What kind of things did you learn from that, and did anything you learned from that go into the design of the Beckwith Covert?

Chas Fisher [00:33:31]:
Yeah. Well, like I mentioned, the, the finger guard is there very specifically of a mishap, with, you know, a prior test. And, what I have learned is that if you if you do have a a good edge, and I did not test it with a with a bad edge, with a with a blunt edge, and that that could be the subject of another test and, you know, another YouTube video if they let me put it up. The, what I've learned is it it's, it it does its job. The it it gets through. Yeah. That that, that jacket that you saw really cut the ribbons. Underneath that was a pretty thick, cotton, hoodie that we put underneath it as well, which probably did a little bit more to prevent penetration by the blade than even the leather did.

Chas Fisher [00:34:21]:
So, I think that what I learned is that I if if I have a clear path to what my my target is, I I would still prefer to penetrate cut versus stab, and I would prefer it because I think I can get better access to, those parts of the body where I can get pretty, a faster effect than than with a stab. A stab, you're gonna you're you can miss a lot. You your target your targeting has gotta be really, really good with a stab.

Bob DeMarco [00:34:52]:
Yeah. Right. Right. Because

Chas Fisher [00:34:54]:
Even if even if even if it's to this area.

Bob DeMarco [00:34:56]:
You basically have to pinpoint it. Whereas with a with a slash, especially with that downward raked straight edge and the the point the secondary point and all that, you can you can do a lot of damage in in this kind of long cut or or a cut that's even 3 inches or or whatever because it's gonna be sort of a sort of a thrust at the same time. It's not gonna be that's the thing about a tanto, you're piercing and cutting at the same time.

Chas Fisher [00:35:25]:
Yeah. Yeah. There are 2 things that are gonna happen with an effective thrust slash slab penetrating cut. There are 2 benefits that can be achieved. 1 is that you render that limb that is being if it's a limb that you're you're cutting, you can render that limb unusable by cutting tendon and and muscle. You can completely sever, in fact, and you can also get to, you know, where where the blood is pumping and get massive leakage. And that, of course, produces a very quick effect if you're if you're cutting, if you're severing the right, the right thing. I wanna be careful not to say too much here because I don't want you to get censored.

Bob DeMarco [00:36:08]:
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's a tool for a purpose and but sometimes, yeah, that that can, but okay. So, I also wanna talk a little bit about this thumb ramp, which, I asked you kind of about this on the phone also. And, you mentioned an interesting and surprising influence for that. Tell me about that.

Chas Fisher [00:36:31]:
Yeah. Well, I mean, I'll I'll make no I I don't wanna make any secret about, where I've gotten inspiration and gotten ideas from. I think that's the way people innovate is they take something that they've liked or disliked about something, and they do their best to improve it. And I don't I don't know that if I've done that with this, but I certainly was influenced by Spyderco's thumb ramp. They're not they didn't invent the thumb ramp, but they they have done a very good job with with some of their blades in, in the right geometry for that. And so I've grown to really like that. And so I wanted to I wanted to have that in this knife because I think it works so well for what I was trying to do with the blade, which is give it some penetration potential and to protect the thumb on, you know, on thrusts and stabs because it does help it does help to do that.

Bob DeMarco [00:37:22]:
Yeah. Definitely. I mean, that that is your, it's like your front sight in a way on this knife. And, you know, when you mentioned the Delica a while ago, and I I love that reference because we all know the Delica as a great EDC, do everything little knife. But I also think it happens to be a great, you know, in a pinch sort of knife for that kind of bad thing that you're talking about. And, the only thing it does lack, and I have experienced because I cut nearly to the bone with an Endura, it lacks the finger guard down here. You can have the the thumb engaged all day long, but in a moment of weakness, you're gonna slip past that. Your thumb will still be engaged on the ramp, but your finger can go up on so this combination here is ideal.

Bob DeMarco [00:38:15]:
But but, anyway, getting back to that ramp, the thing about this ramp that, and and maybe the Delicas that, I think makes it most effective is that the ramp ascends to the to the peak of the spine, and then the spine continues. It's not a ramp that comes up and then tips back down and then you have the spine back here. So you're you're you've got a lot of leverage when you're when you're slashing with it and and exerting any pressure on the thumb ring.

Chas Fisher [00:38:45]:
Mhmm. Yeah. Exactly right.

Bob DeMarco [00:38:47]:
So, tell me about the arc in the back of the handle here.

Chas Fisher [00:38:51]:
Yeah. Well, what we're looking for, you know, it and we haven't talked about the the flat scales part of this yet. And and I might as well because the the flat scales were really a necessary part of what we wanted because, you know, one, we wanted it to be thin enough to carry and have it not be, you know, a big bummer in your pocket all the time because it's too bulky. But I also found in an earlier prototype that we made of this that had more of a a lot more radius to the scales is that even with the indexing that I had of the finger guard and the the the crillion in the back here and the thumb, even then, and if I wasn't looking at it, there were times when I wasn't entirely sure where that edge was, you know, where it was oriented. And so, when I flattened the scales, there it just left no doubt when you when you hold this knife, where's my edge? What direction is it oriented in? You know? It's not it's not over here. Yeah. Because, you know, when I'm holding it, that flatness, orients it, and so that's why the flat scales. Once we did those, we realized that we're gonna need some volume to the to the, grip itself to make it more stable in the hand, to have it not roll as you're as you're holding on to it.

Chas Fisher [00:40:10]:
So this hump at the top and the sort of palm swell down here help, stick stabilize that in the hand so that, you get a very good grip on it. So that's why those things are there.

Bob DeMarco [00:40:21]:
Yeah. It turns it kind of into a triangle. Like, to me, the the flat scales are most valuable for, well, as you said, indexing the edge, but also, under pressure, it's not gonna turn, at least not as easily in your hand, and I you're just alluding to that. But when you add that hump, you're basically taking something relatively 2 dimensional and adding that 3rd dimension and making it kind of triangular. And, that stops it from from turning. So let's let's talk about so you said proudly made and entirely made in the United States. How are they made?

Chas Fisher [00:41:00]:
Well, they're they're made the way most, production knives are made. You know, you start with flat stock, you get that lasered out, you know, stock removal.

Bob DeMarco [00:41:09]:
And this is 80 CRV. Right?

Chas Fisher [00:41:12]:
No. It's, 80 Yale.

Bob DeMarco [00:41:14]:
Yeah. I was

Chas Fisher [00:41:15]:
Yes. Taking my way. And, and so they get they get, you know, cut out by laser and then, we will be adding another step after that, you know, for subsequent runs, but, then they get heat treated and then they get, thickness ground and then they get blade ground and, and then they get cerakoted and then they get put, you know, sharpened and put together. So that's the very brief process of what it goes through.

Bob DeMarco [00:41:43]:
So is this I mean, does your brother put them together as the knifemaker, or do you do you farm different parts of the process out, to different

Chas Fisher [00:41:52]:
Well, we perform we do farm out the, the you know, we don't have a laser, so we're not doing our own laser cuttings. We don't have, that that we don't have the blade grind capability, you know, yet, so that gets formed out. The heat treat, we could do ourselves, but at you know, even at the small batch runs that we're doing, it is more effective for us to to, contract that out. The, you know, in Cerakote, you know, right now we're having somebody else do it, you know, that might change in the future, but we have no reason to change it. For sure, the assembly, the sharpening and assembly happens in Montana. We both do that, Both my brother and I are putting those things together.

Bob DeMarco [00:42:39]:
Yeah. This this is a model that I really appreciate, like a a business model that I really appreciate because, it takes your expertise and your brother's expertise, and then it draws in others from the local economy. And, I mean, you do enough of this, and you start creating knife making towns. You know? Like, I can never remember the name of the yeah. The the town in, the city in China that's got all the main manufacturers

Chas Fisher [00:43:08]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:43:09]:
Or like a Solingen or a a Mhmm. Seville. And, I I love that. Oh, I've spoken to a a lot of different knife companies here that are in America that are keeping it American, and they they don't have all of the capabilities in house. But they're getting the stop ins from over here, and they get they're getting the steel from here and the materials, and they're all made in America. And, I mean, to me, that that means a lot. What does it mean to you to have everything American made?

Chas Fisher [00:43:40]:
Well, it's it's important. And as I said, it's it's, you know, the 3rd pillar of of, you know, that that holds us up. And, we we feel that way not because, you know, I'm not anti, you know, other countries, you know, I'm a patriotic guy and I love America and everything, but it's, you know, I'm not, I'm not anti really any other country, certainly not, ones that are currently our strong allies. But I do have a bit of a problem with, with stuff made in China. And not because I have anything against the Chinese, I've spent a lot of time in China and I have many Chinese friends and I've trained in the Chinese martial art for 30 years, so I have an affinity for it. But what I don't like and what my brother doesn't like, what we don't like is the what's happening to the Chinese people by the government that's over there. And so I don't wanna do anything that will support that that will support that. I think it's antithetical to what we're trying to do with the United States in terms of individual freedoms and you know, civil rights.

Chas Fisher [00:44:50]:
And, so what we're trying to do is just not support that which is antithetical to that, that that those core American values. So I have no problem sourcing stuff out of Germany. I think I mentioned to you, the actual steel for this knife came from Germany. But everything else came from here and was made here, scales, the screws, we had those screws made with US Steel here in the States, as an example. So, what it means is just making a statement about that and and holding true to those values, which are which is very, very hard to do, as I'm sure you know. Yeah. It it does and I will say it very quickly, it has nothing to do with quality, really, because we all know there are some really high quality knives and other things coming out of China. I mean, they make they make the iPhone, right, and they they do a very good job with that.

Chas Fisher [00:45:53]:
They make some very good blades. So it doesn't have to do with quality, and we're not playing that game. You know, we're not doing it for that reason. We're doing it because of, I think, a values misalignment between, between that nation and what we have here.

Bob DeMarco [00:46:11]:
You know, when you say you had your screws made by US Steel, to me, that is one of the coolest things because, I mean, we think of we look at it we look at something like this or I look at something like this, and I forget that even these little tiny grommets are parts that you have to source. The screws, the grommets, the the gaskets, everything on this, you have to source. And some of it, you have made. In this case, you had the screws made, and I don't know what else. But, the point is, to me, keeping it all in house, and by in house, I mean, in the United States and even down to the hardware to the screws, to me, that's very exciting, and and I know that there are, you know, companies who make their own screws and and that kind of thing. But, yeah, I something about that is very pleasing to me, and I like supporting a company that is all that is interested in keeping things here. And not Yeah. Not necessarily as a statement against anyone, but a statement for us here.

Bob DeMarco [00:47:12]:
We have a Yeah. Proud manufacturing past that we've turned our back on for a long time, and, you know, it's time we, turn back around and embrace it. And when companies like yours do that, warms the cockles of my heart. What can I say? And and and all the materials, you've also mentioned all the materials. I mean, you could

Chas Fisher [00:47:34]:
you could easily be buying,

Bob DeMarco [00:47:35]:
Chinese G10 or whatever it is and saving a couple of shekels there, but, you know Yeah.

Chas Fisher [00:47:42]:
We won't do that.

Bob DeMarco [00:47:43]:
Making that a, making that a pillar of your business, I think, is is important. I wanna I wanna double back on some of the, self defense aspect of knives from your perspective. I I've trained a lot in Filipino martial arts, and they have their whole knife philosophy. You've trained a lot in Chinese martial arts, which no doubt has their own knife philosophy and how weapons fit in. But tell me about fixed blades versus folders for self defense. And I will caveat by saying so many of us carry folders because they're easier and or or we think they're easier and more convenient to carry. But how, in your mind, does it play out in a self defense DeMarco, having a folder?

Chas Fisher [00:48:30]:
Well, a little bit of a caveat just to to make sure that we understand each other. Yeah. I've I've trained Wing Chun, you know, for, like I said, about 30 years, kung fu, just a Chinese kung fu. And they they do have some weapons. There are obviously, there are a lot of weapons, a lot of weapons material in those systems, but that's not where I've gotten the majority of my latest stuff from. I've gotten it from more domestically sourced, sources, some former military guys that I've done a bunch of training with. And, and so that's that's where that comes. I did do a little bit of time with, with Pinchak Salat, and so I'm familiar with how they knew used knives.

Chas Fisher [00:49:13]:
What that did for me was just make me a lot more comfortable using a knife in a dynamic environment. They're very good at that. So, to the specific question about folders versus fixed, I I'm not anti folder. I love folders. I you know you know that, I've been working with them for years.

Bob DeMarco [00:49:35]:
Yeah.

Chas Fisher [00:49:35]:
From a defensive standpoint, there is no question that a fixed blade is gonna be better for you, provided it's not an impediment in some other area, like not making you not wanna carry it or it's getting you in trouble with the law or, or maybe it's too big to kinda use in a confined space, if, if you exclude all of those factors, no question, a fixed blade is going to be better for you because you don't have to open the blade. And like I mentioned before, the draw and deployment of a blade of a blade or of any tool in a self defensive situation is the most important step. Well, it's the second most important step in that encounter. The first most important one was, trying to avoid getting in it. So you you made some mistakes or or or maybe bad luck really is is running against you and you find yourself in a bad situation. But if you made mistakes, that was sort of the first thing that you you missed doing. But then the second thing you absolutely should not fail at, is if you need to use a tool self defensively, you've gotta get it into play. And, a fixed blade is ready to go.

Chas Fisher [00:50:48]:
You do not have to open the blade, and opening the blade can be a very tough thing to do under duress. And it's not like, you know, it's not like the movies where you got a lot of space and a lot of time and you kind of it's almost like mutual combat. You whip your knife out Yeah. Because they got their their knife or whatever it is that they're doing with you. You're you're often much more pressed for time and often also pressed for space.

Bob DeMarco [00:51:12]:
Yeah. It's not like, DeMarco, I've been waiting for this knife fight all my life. Right.

Chas Fisher [00:51:17]:
Right. It's, it it's it's harrowing and it's it could be very tightly confined spaces and, having to actually, you know, not only draw it but also deploy it just adds another step to it.

Bob DeMarco [00:51:30]:
Yeah. That's that's why, for me, I mean, I have tons of folders that are way in that tactical realm, and I love them all. But, if I had go out the door knowing that I might actually really for real need it, it would be one of my Emersons with a wave or one of my Cold Steel's with their version of it because you draw it out of your pocket and there it is, and you're not fussing with it trying to open it like all,

Chas Fisher [00:51:55]:
oh my god. I'm in

Bob DeMarco [00:51:56]:
a knife fight worrying about it. It's already deployed in your hand.

Chas Fisher [00:52:00]:
I I I will say, though, that I think that there are situations that could very easily call for relying on a folder for self defense where, you know, maybe it's just really socially unacceptable for you to have a fixed blade on you. Or, you know, usually it has something to do with that. So I'm not trying to say that they shouldn't or couldn't be used for self defense. Obviously, they can't. That's right place, right time.

Bob DeMarco [00:52:29]:
Right. Right. And and, training definitely has and and by training, I even mean just practicing deploying it and pulling it out of your pants pocket and opening it. Can have a a huge part to do with it and, you know, maybe slowing yourself down a little bit. But, anyway, I also wanted to talk about something. So this is a beautiful EDC, kind of fighting fixed blade knife or self defense fixed blade knife, and it fits my hand perfectly. And I'm a 6 foot tall guy with medium sized hands. It'll probably fit most people's hands, but have you had any requests or interest in larger knives? Where are you gonna take the Beckwith, in particular from here?

Chas Fisher [00:53:19]:
That's a great question. And, yes, we have had requests. We had them almost immediately. I think some of it has to do not necessarily with how big people's hands were, although that's it's possible, but there were some people who just wanted a bigger, beefier blade, and, you know, they've got a different use profile for it than we had kind of envisioned for the Beckwith Covert, but we do have at least 2 knives that we are developing, additional knives for the Beckwith family. So there'll be 3 knives in total, and the Covert, of course, was the inaugural knife in that in that family. We will develop a slightly larger format for, for a fixed blade, and, of course, it's not just gonna be scaled up and precisely the same in every way because it's going to be carried differently. It's going to be deployed, drawn and deployed differently. And so it will necessarily have some changes made to its geometry and some of the features that we have in the knife, but it'll be recognizable as part of that Beckwith family.

Chas Fisher [00:54:24]:
Okay. And then and then, we do actually have a folder that's also in development Oh, cool. That, that we'll be coming out with, but later probably.

Bob DeMarco [00:54:34]:
But we'll I was gonna ask you about sorry. I interrupted you. I was gonna ask you, will the consequent yeah. The subsequent blades have, the same profile? Will they be Tantos and kind of have that same spirit of the original for this

Chas Fisher [00:54:51]:
Probably within the Beckwith line, probably. Not necessarily, but probably. We haven't thought beyond those 3 knives, and I don't want to you know, we've got a lot of knife ideas and it's not constrained to just the, you know, how how we're perceiving the self defense or defensive space. We've got other knives that we're going to be doing as well. And so, yeah, I think even within the Beckwith family, there's probably room for some different blade styles. I still happen to think that that tanto is ideal, but maybe there are some people who, you know, don't need to, you know, penetrate cut. You know, maybe that's not their style and that's I I'll respect that. We're gonna only do it though if we think that it still will fulfill the stated purpose of that of that blade.

Bob DeMarco [00:55:44]:
Right. We've gone this far and haven't mentioned, for those who might not know, who who is, Colonel Charles Beckwith?

Chas Fisher [00:55:53]:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. We haven't mentioned that at all. So Charlie Beckwith was a, an American soldier, professional soldier, a career soldier who, in the, very early eighties, late seventies and early eighties is when it started to come about. Some, you know, they've become quite famous, in a hushed and quiet way because they don't like to call attention to themselves, but they've done some pretty major things over the years, and they're unfortunately, one of the things that they're usually talked about in reference to is the failed, attempt to rescue our hostages in Iran when the Iran hostage crisis happened. What they don't talk about, which I think is a really great sort of way to cap that story, and, you know, that story is it resulted not in any deaths, I don't think, but it failed. And, you know, we lost some aircraft and stuff like that. But what that what that and Charlie Beckwith was in charge of Delta for that, that was their first major mission.

Chas Fisher [00:56:58]:
It caused him to re examine how we manage our special operations forces that we deploy. And his recommendation was, what basically became JSOC, which is a kind of a multi departmental, multi branch way of managing special operations that had not been done before and the various stages that go into making those operations succeed, like, you know, air support, for example. Right? Yeah. Because, you know, had been the air force's domain before that. And so those things were not very well coordinated for that particular Iran mission, and that's one of the reasons why it failed. And so he was responsible for that recommendation to form JSON. Anyway, we just, I admired what he did. I admired his tenacity, and he fought for many, many years to form Delta Force and encountered a lot of resistance, a lot of bureaucracy, a lot of not invented here notions, and, he persevered and made it happen.

Chas Fisher [00:58:02]:
And so I just we wanted to we named it after him in tribute. Yeah. Right? And to honor him.

Bob DeMarco [00:58:09]:
Something I always thought was, I read that book we talked about, by him or about him. I can't even remember who it was, an autobiography. But, something I always liked about Delta Force was the fact that, and we know that the the military branches are very, what can I say, tribal in a way, I guess? And he reached out to the best in all the different branches to form that. And to me, I think that's cool because that's, that's going outside of that tribalism, which even even today our law enforcement, agencies are prone to and just really getting the best of the best for the mission. And I always appreciated that, and I think that's a good spirit to imbue in the in this knife, this knife in particular, because of what its mission is. I before we wrap, I have to ask you about the unicorn editions. What are the unicorn editions?

Chas Fisher [00:59:05]:
Well well, our batches, you know, we have the batches and and additions are kind of used interchangeably. So we, you know, we we talk about doing batches. And, as you know, because you have a blade, every batch is is, indicated on the blade in its laser etching. So you know what batch you got, and you know which knife number within that batch you got as well. So we're gonna do 2 kinds of batches. 1 is what will be reruns, like this Beckwith Covert we've been talking about. Batch 1 is the inaugural batch or edition. We'll do reruns of that steel and that that knife and that steel and that, that that, Cerakote color, that that scale material and color, that'll be a rerun batch, and it'll just it'll be a different batch, batch number.

Chas Fisher [00:59:51]:
Like, it'd be batch 2 if we did 1 right now. But we will also do some what we call unicorn batches, which are rare and precious and lethal. And, they will be makeups that will not be repeated. So that could be a color Cerakote that will only be one time done with the combination of of scale materials. It could be scale material difference. It could be something different and unique about it that will not be that we don't intend to ever do again, and and, you know, we're gonna stick to that. You know, there's a tendency to say you're gonna do it. Like, they do this in the watch, world

Bob DeMarco [01:00:31]:
All the time.

Chas Fisher [01:00:32]:
Yeah. And then they they go back on that, and they end up making it a production.

Bob DeMarco [01:00:36]:
Like, seems we actually made a lot of money on this. We're gonna do this

Chas Fisher [01:00:40]:
again. Yeah. Yeah. So we're we're not gonna do that. We if we do a unicorn run, we actually do have a unicorn batch of the coming right now. It's in production right now.

Bob DeMarco [01:00:49]:
So I was We will Sorry. Go ahead.

Chas Fisher [01:00:52]:
Well, we'll only do that that, that combination of materials and color, once, and then it's done.

Bob DeMarco [01:00:58]:
I was looking at your, one of the pages where you describe how to kinda decipher the markings and on the blade. And it's cool. You have the batch number. You have the, the addition number, you know, out of how many and that kind of thing. And it looks like on the unicorn edition, you might have a little inscription of, like, a a unicorn on it.

Chas Fisher [01:01:20]:
Oh, hell yeah. We've got a unicorn.

Bob DeMarco [01:01:21]:
We have a unicorn edition. I love it. Okay. Because that unicorn I have 2 daughters, and I've looked at unicorns a lot in the last, 14 years. So I saw that, and I was like, I gotta have that on my knife somewhere, that that unicorn looking so looking so friendly and happy, deceptively deadly. Alright. So, Chas, as we wrap here, what do you and John foresee as the future of Fisher blades? How do you want this to grow?

Chas Fisher [01:01:49]:
Well, we just wanna keep making knives that have, purpose behind them and, that, you know, have the quality that we're that we're aiming for and that are made in the US, or, you know, or close to it. And, we wanna keep solving people's problems. I mean, we're really in the problem solving business, and you know, that's what knives do, they solve problems and it could be any sort of problem. And so as long as we are helping people solve their problems, helping them, as we say, survive and thrive, then, then we're pretty psyched. So that's what we're gonna aim to keep doing.

Bob DeMarco [01:02:24]:
Outstanding. Well, I'm I, wanna let everyone know that now that we've had this interview, you are gonna be coming on Thursday night knives in one of the, coming episodes and helping, to give away one of these. You sent you sent me very generously a package that we will be giving away,

Bob DeMarco [01:02:41]:
to a viewer on Thursday night knives, with a Beckwith and a couple of other things that you threw in there. Very cool, including my favorite snack of all time, beef jerky. So, very cool. We will announce I'll make a video announcing when you'll be on and and can't wait to be giving one of these away to to a lefty viewer. Chas, thank you so much for coming on and talking about Fischer Blades. It's been a great pleasure, sir.

Chas Fisher [01:03:09]:
Thank you, Bob. Likewise. I look forward to the next one.

Announcer [01:03:12]:
Visit the knife junkie at the knife junkie.com to catch all of our podcast episodes, videos, photos, and more.

Announcer [01:03:18]:
Discover the number one reason why the shockwave torch is the most shocking self defense torch ever. The knifejunkie.com / shockwave.

Bob DeMarco [01:03:28]:
Well, there it goes, ladies and gentlemen. Chas Fisher of Fisher Blade Company. I am loving the Beckwith Covert, and I can't wait to see how this particular line evolves, and and we'll see what that unicorn edition looks like. No doubt it will be cool and very special with that little unicorn

Bob DeMarco [01:03:46]:
on it. That's what I call cognitive dissonance. Like, no, sir. It's for work. That unicorn, it's just a friendly unicorn. Alright. Be sure to join us on Thursday night knives tomorrow, this week Wednesday for the midweek supplemental, and, keep your eyes peeled for some shorts coming up. For Jim working his magic behind the switcher, I'm Bob DeMarco saying until next time.

Bob DeMarco [01:04:12]:
Don't take dull for an answer.

Announcer [01:04:13]:
Thanks for listening to the 9th junkie podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please rate and review at review the podcast dot com. For show notes for today's episode, additional resources, and to listen to past episodes, visit our website, the knifejunkie.com. You can also watch our latest videos on YouTube at the knifejunkie.com/youtube. Check out some great knife photos on the knifejunkie.com/instagram, and join our Facebook group at the knifejunkie.com/facebook. And And if you have a question or comment, email them to Bob at the knifejunkie.com or call our 247 listener line at 72 4466-4487. And you may hear your comment or question answered on an upcoming episode of the Knife Junkie podcast.