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Announcer [00:00:03]:
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast, your weekly dose of knife news and information about knives and knife collecting. Here's your host, Bob the knife junkie DeMarco.

Bob DeMarco [00:00:16]:
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast. I'm Bob DeMarco. On this edition of the show, I'm speaking with custom knifemaker Denny Furey of Furey Urban Combat Knives Unlimited. I met Denny in Texas at the Texas Custom Knife Show, but realized quickly that I had seen his work before in tactical gentlemen's magazines. He makes and designs a broad range of knives, but with his military, law enforcement, and martial arts background, his real bread and butter are the knives that range from combat to self defense. Though we talked a good while about his knives, we ended up sharing a unique and, to me, thrilling experience with one of the guests of honor there. We'll talk about that and the experience, that we shared there and then, of course, Urban, Furey Urban Combat Knives. But first, be sure to like, comment, subscribe, and hit the notification bell and download us where you listen to podcast.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:10]:
You wanna help support the show, you can do so by going to the knifejunkie.com/patreon. Again, that's the knifejunkie.com/patreon.

Announcer [00:01:19]:
Ever strop a knife again even though it gets no real use? Face up to what you are. You're a knife junkie.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:27]:
Hey, Denny. Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast.

Denny Furey [00:01:29]:
Hey, Bob. Thanks for having me.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:31]:
Hey. It's very good to see you. Like I said, we, we met at the Texas Custom Knife Show. I spent a good deal of time, kinda came back to your, your your table quite a few times. You had some of the most tactical knives there, and, that's really the kind of stuff I'm interested in, combat knives, etcetera. And then we learned we had we had a few things in common. But, let me let me just say it was a thrill working out with Doug Markajta and doing that Cali jam.

Denny Furey [00:02:05]:
That was it was pretty pretty fun. When he, hit me up about it prior to the show, I was like, I wasn't expecting it because, I mean, I've done Cali, and I've done some stuff with him before. And then he's got another guy that was in there with us, Lee Davis, who lives down here by me. And I finally get to get in and get a little bit of Markina, Cali stuff into my background. And it was just great getting up there and having all our different backgrounds and being able to see how we flow with each other when we got in there. It was I, it was really enjoyable.

Bob DeMarco [00:02:38]:
Yeah. It was. It was really fun, and it was, you know, it was honor it was an honor, of course, to meet him. For me, I'd never met him before and and to do some of that, like, flow work or attack, you know, attack me and I'll show you what I can do kinda stuff. It was so much fun, but it was also really cool meeting you and the other guys. Oh, yeah. Like you mentioned, the gentleman who's down there in Texas, an old student of his. But, that that that's, kind of a microcosm of the whole knife world, down being down there and or or being at Blade Show and being surrounded by knives, you know, it's what guys like us love.

Bob DeMarco [00:03:17]:
Where did this love come from, for you?

Denny Furey [00:03:21]:
Early on, I mean, I grew up I actually grew up in upstate New York and, grew up hunting. So, you know, at a at a young age, dad handed you a knife and, you know, with your gun, and we went out hunting. So and I after that, I just I loved having a pocket knife or or, you know, the ballast songs, you know, all the stuff normal kids like as far as when it came to sharp objects. And then once I started on my path in the martial arts, I started off in Taekwondo early on at, like, 7, but then I found Kenpo. And my instructor had a bunch of other backgrounds he encompassed into it. And as you got into your higher belts, he started implementing edged weapons. And for the path I wanted to go on with the military and law enforcement, it it really struck a nerve with me. And I I became, like, enthralled with learning all I could about it.

Denny Furey [00:04:13]:
And I think that's what's kept feeding me over the years. And when I retired from law enforcement in 2015, I didn't know what I was gonna do with my life. As far as, we moved down to Texas. We were up in Oklahoma, and my wife's company's down here, and she took promotion. We moved down here. And, a buddy of mine, said, you know, with all your background and and edged weapons or anything, why don't you try making knives? And I was like I laughed. I was I was like, yeah. I'm not real good with with my hands.

Denny Furey [00:04:48]:
I said I can't even hang drywall straight. So eventually, I we got down here, discussed with my wife, and I started off on a section of my garage with a 1 by 30. I bought a heat treat oven right off the bat It started just, you know, diving headlong into learning the process and everything. And, apparently, I just had an app for it. And, I mean, it took off. I mean, I've been I've been making knives now for, going on 9 years, full time for 8 of that. The 1st year was just, you know, trying to get everything down. I mean, you know, my first few blades looked like polished turds.

Denny Furey [00:05:24]:
But as as I started getting in more and more involved with it, it just doors opened. I like, you know, the stuff with you meeting Doug. I got to meet him early on with him and Jay Nielsen and Dave Baker and all them. And they still keep trying to get me to go on, Forged in the Fire. I'm just, I don't have any urge to go on TV. But, and it it I mean, I'm just it it it just it tickles me that I've I'm where I'm at and able to do what I do and love what I do. And on top of that, you know, I keep adding to my knife collection. That's that's never stopped even baking.

Denny Furey [00:06:01]:
I've I've got a huge collection, that my wife doesn't particularly care for. But

Bob DeMarco [00:06:07]:
You know, it's it's funny. I I I always I frequently hear, well, I sold my entire knife collection to start making knives. And that's always, like, very admirable to me, but it's also sad. I mean, me personally, like, to me, I I look at it as future currency. You know, when civilization collapses, it's a good trading object. So Oh, yeah. I gotta keep collecting, baby. But what what I was gonna say, you talked about Kenpo Karate.

Bob DeMarco [00:06:36]:
That that was, before we started rolling, I told you that was the martial art that I took in Philadelphia at a at a place called Martial Posture in Old Town Philadelphia way back in the nineties, early nineties, and, it was awesome. I fell in love with martial arts through that place. It had a sort of, unorthodox approach to it. I thought that was great. Sort of, also like like, Bruce Lee sort of approach to it.

Denny Furey [00:07:01]:
Oh, yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:07:02]:
But when I was there, training, I became aware of Gil Hibben and the Kenpo knife, the 2 Kenpo knives. There were 2, and they were both very cool. Did that have any, influence on you when you when you, first started making?

Denny Furey [00:07:17]:
Well, the capo I started off in, it did I just start I started off in Shaolin capo. Because we're in the northeast, so, you know, you had Volaris, and you had Ed Parker and all that, and all mixed cereal. I mean, it was all encompassing the same. And my instructor studied from both both Parker system and from Volaris. So I got a taste, but we started off mostly in the Volaris system. And but then we started getting when you started getting in your ear meatballs, started getting thrown in the the Parker stuff. And that's when I first came across, you know, Gil Hibben's, Kenpo knife. And I'm like, I love it because it's like it's it's a modified fighting bowie with with with quinlins on it, you know, for trapping and and catching and stuff, and I loved it.

Denny Furey [00:07:58]:
And I think with that, a lot of my my blades, like, my my hidden tang ones, encompass that type of stuff. Or and it goes back to, like, you know, the the, like, the Hima type fighting where you're using, like, broad swords and things like that, but you're using it to trap blades and break the other blade and then continue to attack. And it it it really led into the stuff that I saw in Gil's knife for being used in martial arts and then even in the military aspect.

Bob DeMarco [00:08:32]:
You're you're talking HEMA. You know, people talk about, you know, the quillians and the guards on fixed blade knives and, kinda scoff at and and and I'm one of those guys, kinda scoff at the guard being used to trap blades, because it's it's kind of taking a different, kind of fighting, sword fighting, and scaling it it down. But to me, I always thought what was more realistic is using those quillion to trap more like in you know, trap your opponent's fists or arms, that kind of thing, and, more readily than the blade. But to me, all of that, I love. Like, the Bill Bagwell stuff. Yeah. You know, the the trap and okay. So so people, can have some idea what we're talking about.

Bob DeMarco [00:09:18]:
Let show us a couple of knives, so so we can get into it and see what you got.

Denny Furey [00:09:23]:
And going into that also, because, like, I'll I'll show you, like, the the production versions and my custom versions of 2 of the, blades that I currently use. And the use of, like, jimping and, the way you space out, things on the blades, like this is, now this is a production version of my cockaretta's, ring dagger. Yeah. And it's made so you have the you have the thumb ramp, you know, just like for, you know, keeping your hand there, but if you have it in reverse grip, you also have that to catch and trap the hand. Pull it in and do your trapping, you know, and then you can also flay and go in, do your extensions. Like I said, this, is a, a sorry, a production model of a blade that I had been making for a while, and I was approached by, the company Combative Edge.

Bob DeMarco [00:10:19]:
Oh, yeah.

Denny Furey [00:10:19]:
And they deal in, you know, in fighting knives and military style weapons and all that. And they they fell in love with that model, and this is like this is a, a custom version. I mean, they're relatively same, just different materials and all that. And I use mine are just a little thicker stock than what they use for their productions. And then the other one they had picked up was this one actually started off as I I thought it would be like a novelty type blade, and, it's called the Unmai. It it I I it was based off of Japanese kiridashi, you know, just for cutting leather and paper. But it wound up put a ring on it, and it does the same thing. And, I mean, I wind up with a lot of, military and law enforcement guys getting this for for, like, a quick defense knife in their kits.

Denny Furey [00:11:11]:
Because, I mean, it's made for just pulling out and getting somebody off you quick with a nice quick stab. And the same thing with this one is real deep jimping on on the back

Bob DeMarco [00:11:24]:
for traffic.

Denny Furey [00:11:24]:
For traffic. For traffic. And, you know, I do a variety of this is this is a custom model I use to bring, but I also sometimes I'll put checkering on top to add a little bit more bite for the for that type of, technique and stuff when you're when you're using it.

Bob DeMarco [00:11:43]:
So, for people who are just listening, we're talking about, the jimping on the, well, where the thumb ramp would be, basically. But when held in reverse grip and, kinda pinched against the forearm, you can use that that little triangle in there to grab someone's wrist and opponent's wrist in a quick kinda half beat sort of move. Yeah. You don't you you can't really hold on to it for too long, but, it's just though, it's called trapping. And and I see those knives, and they get me, real excited because well, for a number of reasons. I love, a well aligned ring on a knife because there are so many poorly aligned rings or or just rings that maybe aren't there necessarily for a fist grip. Maybe they're there just for retention when you're not using it, like the bird and trout knife, but that's not a tactical fighting kinda thing.

Denny Furey [00:12:37]:
But you're talking like something like a like a like a kuna kunai type deal where it's it's perfectly linear in the handle. When you're gripping it, your fingers line up the handle, but the rest of your fingers are offset to a point where it's uncomfortable.

Bob DeMarco [00:12:47]:
Right. It's almost for putting for turning sideways in the hand and putting your thumb through.

Denny Furey [00:12:52]:
As yeah. As a reinforcement.

Bob DeMarco [00:12:54]:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, combative edge, you mentioned. I I can't remember the the gentleman's name who, runs that company, but I have his m one folder from, you know, that was his very first.

Denny Furey [00:13:08]:
Yes.

Bob DeMarco [00:13:09]:
And it's such a great knife. I love that thing. And that was made by Lionsteel, back when I got it. I'm not sure if they're still making it.

Denny Furey [00:13:16]:
But No. He actually has because the the plus side the reason why I went with them is I wanted to keep everything USA made when it came to any type of production stuff. And his his manufacturer guy manufacturing guy is actually a small shop in Dallas, Texas. Oh, okay. It it was it was a plus side that, you know, everything is right here in the state for me to be able to get, you know, back and forth with this guy, and we're we're prototyping and everything else. So I sent him my my AutoCAD for him to get me copies back to see if everything lined up correctly, everything was measured out right. So it was it was it was great to have him. And but he's doing all that now.

Denny Furey [00:13:52]:
And like you mentioned, the m one, he just came out with a, an auto version.

Bob DeMarco [00:13:57]:
Yeah. The new this is the v 2. I don't mean to nerd out, but

Denny Furey [00:14:01]:
No. No. No.

Bob DeMarco [00:14:02]:
I always wanted that auto version, and I I slept on it. And I just recently saw that he kind of, did some tweaks, some design tweaks, and I love that. Love when companies update models, but keep the same models around.

Denny Furey [00:14:16]:
Yep.

Bob DeMarco [00:14:17]:
Tell me about, how Furys, Urban, Combat, Knives Unlimited, like, what what's your model? Is are you the kind of company that keeps the same models around and you add to it, perfect it, or

Denny Furey [00:14:30]:
you Oh, yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:14:31]:
Tell me how that works, your catalog.

Denny Furey [00:14:34]:
When I first started off, I mean, it was a I just tried you know, I tried to throw myself in as deep as I could and try a bunch of different styles. When it came down to it, a lot of it a a lot of this and, like, when Doug came to one of the shows, one of the other, Texas custom shows, him and I have been friends a while. He he why came over, why he see my krampits? Because with me being in law enforcement, I always had a krambit on me on my gun side behind my pistol because it's one of those quick access weapons for weapon retention. When, like, in you know, when we were doing our little our little, demo there at the last show, that's one of the things I showed was weapon retention, techniques using a knife, having your knife placed behind your your sidearm. And my my forte has become the ring ring blades. I I love ring blades just for the retention, for being able to escalate and deescalate force going from a firearm without having to drop your knife. You can resheathe it and know where to index it, and have all that. But, I mean, I go through, and when I started off, I wanted to primarily just from my background, I wanted to, like, mainstream in with the military and the first responder groups.

Denny Furey [00:15:49]:
And, right off the bat, I mean, it I it it was rough I mean, rough going. It's as for any knifemaker starting off, it's it's gonna be tough until you get your name out there. But the plus side for me is most of my college degrees were in business, so marketing was right up right up my, you know, in in my in my wheelhouse. So I just started saturating marketing my stuff once I had it to the point where, you know, it'd be something I'm I'm I wanna put out and that is, you know, somebody's gonna come back and say, this looks like, you know, crap. I I wanted to get knives in people's hands and have them, you know, test them, check their ergonomics, use them, and show that they take a beating, and then get back with me. And that way, you know, I'm putting out a a product that people are gonna wanna buy. And with that being said, I started most of my business before I even had a website or do it on Facebook, on LinkedIn. And just because I had I had, like, 10,000 contacts already on there just for the military and law enforcement private sector.

Denny Furey [00:17:00]:
And the plus side with this is, is I got approached by, Conley, the MMA fighter and actor. And I wound up making knives for him and one for a film that he's it's in hiatus right now due to COVID. But I made him a specific knife for his, one of his movies. And then I got hooked up with the Air Force TACP Special Forces. And I have an annual contract with them now for their new recruits going downrange, and I have a specific model that's made for them, that gets issued to their guys when they graduate from their, their school.

Bob DeMarco [00:17:37]:
Well, describe it. I'm not sure if you can show it, but describe it.

Denny Furey [00:17:40]:
Yeah. I don't have a I don't have one on me, but it's it's a it's a, modified, western tanto. Now the difference with this is is instead of having, you know, a western tanto has a defined flat front with another edge that goes off, mine comes out as more rounded so you can do it's easier to sharpen. And then the point is more acute for for, for puncture. However, it's also made with, 3 quarter inch or, sorry, 3 16th inch, steel. So they can use it in the field. It can be worn on kit. It's sharp to use in combat and for any other uses they have.

Denny Furey [00:18:20]:
Wish I had thought about it. I mean, I've got, some uncut blanks downstairs because my military order is due right now for this coming year, and I just started with them. But, and they're made with removable OD green scale, so they can break them down and clean them. They're cerakoted and all that. And they're about 9 inches overall with a 4 and a half inch blade, with a deep front finger choil and and finger guard, so there's no slipping forward on the blade in any type of emergency situation.

Bob DeMarco [00:18:47]:
Denny, how did you get a military contract for your knives, and what it's what's the pressure like in getting that kinda order out?

Denny Furey [00:18:57]:
It started off, I I I from I'm I did 14 years in the Air Force under in security police and security forces. I'll date myself. I was active duty from 89 to 93. I was in Desert Shield, Storm, provide comfort. And then after 9 11, went back in and went to the reserves. So I was doing that in, you know, at the same time, I was in civilian law enforcement. So a lot of my contacts in LinkedIn were military guys and everything else, and I just happen to have a CEO of a and well, it's it's kind of an NGO, but it's it's part it's called MVR simulations. And what they do is is they do all the air strike simulation stuff for the JTAC TACVs, which are basically your tactical Ford air controllers, which call it air strikes and stuff.

Denny Furey [00:19:56]:
They embed with the seals and and green berets and all that and go downrange. And, he had seen, the model that I originally did of this blade was huge. I mean, I I made it for another guy that had ordered, something in a west Western Panto, but with, you know, without the real distinct front and all that. And it was like a 14 inch blade overall. And he was like, I'd like something like this for them, he said, but smaller. So I just redesigned it and made the finger guard, come back a little bit just below the edge line and played with the the width of the blade. So it wasn't so wide when you shrunk it down that it looked, you know, just useless. And he had me do a couple of test blades for him and sent him in.

Denny Furey [00:20:46]:
And next thing I know is a couple of weeks later, he's like, can you make me 10? I'm like, okay. So I did 10 the 1st the 1st year. And each year it's gone up. I'm doing 25 blades this year, and I'm not going to say that because I'm getting they're charging me government they're paying me government price. So it's a pretty good contract. But the thing is, is like I had their class graduates in, annually, late summer. So July, August. And, I I start I get all my stuff in order because before I was doing them all by hand.

Denny Furey [00:21:25]:
But now I when I order my steel, I do all my steel through New Jersey Steel Barren up up there in Northeast, and they water jet. So all I do is I did out I did out my CAD, sent it to them, they water jet my blanks form. I get them all set. And starting last year, I had a guy here in my guild do CNC of my card. So I had him start cutting my handles out so I can knock them all out quicker and have them done way ahead of time for them to get there. They can pick out the recipients, get them all set, and all that. So, I mean, before, when I was doing everything by hand, oh, yeah. It was it was crunch time because I was, you know, covering commissions, because I I I my books come open sporadically.

Denny Furey [00:22:07]:
I I try not I'm not the kind of guy that will get you on the books. You're gonna be on the books for 2 years. I will not have anybody on my books more than 4 months. So I won't I don't take a bunch at once. As soon as I open the spots up, they're gone.

Bob DeMarco [00:22:21]:
Right.

Denny Furey [00:22:21]:
And I get there done, and then I open them again and all that. So but these guys have been a blessing. I mean, it's, like, every year, it's like they just want they want more and more, and I've not I haven't had a complaint from them. Their guys, I'm constantly getting I've had some of their tech b guys that got the knives, call me or email me and say, can you make me some more of these? Just for, like, their family and stuff. I'm like, yeah. Not a problem.

Bob DeMarco [00:22:46]:
Well, what what are the technical requirements? Do they need something for is this survival if the plane goes down, or are they, are they

Denny Furey [00:22:56]:
Well, these guys, I mean, these guys, they're already on the ground. Oh. But they are I mean, they're they're jump they're jump certified, so, I mean, they could use it as a as a, as a shoot as a shoot knife. Because it's I mean, I I put a lanyard hole in it and everything else the whole 9 yards like any other knife like any other, like, bushcraft knife that, you know, somebody would take out. The only difference with it with it being 316, I do a real deep hollow grind on it. Okay. However, it's not through a 0 degree apex. I I keep it down to about 2 2 to 2, you know, 2 degrees, so there's still an edge on it, but it's not gonna roll on them.

Denny Furey [00:23:27]:
Okay. They can still beat the crap out of it, you know, if they have to do something survival wise out out there, but it'll also hold up if they have to take it hand to hand.

Bob DeMarco [00:23:35]:
Yeah.

Denny Furey [00:23:35]:
I mean, it's made for that ergonomic.

Bob DeMarco [00:23:38]:
Nice. Yeah. That slashiness of the of the, of the hollow grind.

Denny Furey [00:23:44]:
If you could scroll down, I think I got there's some blank ones come up, like, right here. Keep going. And underneath the important Portman announcement, that one right there. You just went past it.

Bob DeMarco [00:23:56]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Denny Furey [00:23:57]:
So If you look at the the picture, and you'll see the one just below the important announcement, that is that's the model.

Bob DeMarco [00:24:03]:
Oh, man. That the the middle left. Right?

Denny Furey [00:24:06]:
Oh, yes. Yes. The the left.

Bob DeMarco [00:24:08]:
Yeah. That is that is No.

Denny Furey [00:24:10]:
No. No. I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll the next one above it. Yeah. The next one above it. That one. Yep.

Bob DeMarco [00:24:17]:
Wow. Oh, that is sweet. Yeah. I see the hollow grind. I I could see how this could be a very useful blade all around. That front part, you know, though, there really is a secondary tip there, but but you have a half the blade is a belly up front, and then you have that nice straight.

Denny Furey [00:24:34]:
But even that where you see where you see the tie in at the bottom of the, front of the edge, once I put an edge on it, it's gone because it'll take it completely off, and it rolls into it. So Oh,

Bob DeMarco [00:24:45]:
I see. Yeah.

Denny Furey [00:24:46]:
Easily go, yeah, you can roll it right back when you're running it on a scrop or on a stone, and it it'll go it'll be one smooth transition.

Bob DeMarco [00:24:53]:
But that front portion is flat, right, for for penetration?

Denny Furey [00:24:56]:
Oh, no. The it's it's it's it's got a belly. It's got a slight belly on it, but I I made it like that instead of having it being completely flat

Bob DeMarco [00:25:03]:
I'm sorry.

Denny Furey [00:25:03]:
Like the original

Bob DeMarco [00:25:04]:
I mean the bevel grind on the front.

Denny Furey [00:25:07]:
Oh, no. It's it's it's it's condensed. Okay. Alright. Oh, sweet. Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:25:11]:
Oh, man. This thing, it also looks like it's set up for a double edge, if you if you wanted it to be. You know?

Denny Furey [00:25:20]:
Oh, yeah. The top the top can be I I take that down, and it's just barely off, where if somebody wanted to, they could put an edge on it. I probably think it's, 0.05 to 5.

Bob DeMarco [00:25:33]:
So what On end. When you heat treat a night like a knife like that Mhmm. For that purpose, for those guys, are you going for toughness like a camp knife, or are you going for, like, high edge retention? Or, like, what's what are your considerations there?

Denny Furey [00:25:49]:
With these, I mean, I use ADCR b 2 on these. So, I mean, it because it's an all around high carbon, but it also has a little bit more of the on the toughness because of the chromium and the vanadium in it and all that. So these things, I heat treat them up. And when they come out of, Quench, they're sitting at about 60, 61. And I take them back to anywhere between 5859 HRC. That way, you have a good solid edge on it. It's not gonna chip. And because of how beefy it is at the top, I mean, you're you're gonna have to really, you know, beat the hell out of something with it in order to break that blade.

Denny Furey [00:26:27]:
So it's gonna take a beating. And I I temper it for 2 full cycles, so it it brings it down so it's not, like, super brittle, all the way around.

Bob DeMarco [00:26:38]:
So okay. We we know that that there are some special, special military guys who get your knives. What about your other customers? Who are the kind of people who go for your knives?

Denny Furey [00:26:50]:
I'd get everything from hunters to your regular EDC, carriers, collectors. Because I I do, I mean, I do high end stuff too, like yeah. Let's see. This one here. I mean, I I think you saw this the last show. This is I I haven't sold it yet, but you get something like this one with, you know, it's it's got the turquoise. It's got, the African black wood. It's it's hard to see out here, but you can see it's got the polished hamon in it.

Bob DeMarco [00:27:20]:
Oh, yeah. Beautiful.

Denny Furey [00:27:22]:
Yeah. And, and, I mean, I I do blades like that. So all and I'll do like, this one's got custom leather. And then, like, your EDC style blades that are cheap, subpar, you know, under 200, like, something like this. A little 8 inch blade. Still pokey stabby, but, you know, it's, you know, it's got it's got, like, the dual jipping up here. So, yeah, you know, it's good.

Bob DeMarco [00:27:50]:
And Put that up close, please. I wanna see that. I remember this knife. I remember these knives. You had some of these at

Denny Furey [00:27:56]:
Yes.

Bob DeMarco [00:27:58]:
Look at the, I love that, jumping up front so you can really push down, really get some pressure with that. And that that, swedge almost looks zero ground. That's gonna that's gonna stick in.

Denny Furey [00:28:11]:
Yeah. And and same I I do a lot of these because, you know, it depends on the state where they go, and I get people that go, can you make that with a dual edge? Most cases, I can just put an edge on it for them right then before I ship it off to them.

Bob DeMarco [00:28:24]:
Nice. Well, I I wanna find out about, your your law enforcement past Mhmm. And how that, how that differed from maybe your military in terms of how you were using knives and how you, how they worked into your system and then what you thought a good knife was.

Denny Furey [00:28:44]:
Oh, yeah. No. You know, military I mean, we when we were state we first got, issued our blades and stuff like that in the military. It was usually like an m 9 bayonet. But then, like, you could carry whatever you wanted on your kit. Because the career field, when I went into it originally, wasn't wasn't just law enforcement and and security, we did everything. The the air force cops were the grunts. I mean, we because when we went through our training, we wound up going to what would they call airbase ground defense, which is basically army AIT.

Denny Furey [00:29:19]:
And mine was in Fort Nix, New Jersey. So right after we did all our weapons training, all that, we went there. And then after that, you had to go through all your, you know if you went ERT, which is, you know, the emergency response team, Air Force called it EST. But you still had those aspects. You transitioning and going into civilian law enforcement when I got out wasn't too much of a stretch. I mean, it's like being in Oklahoma, you had to learn their you had to learn, you know, their penal code, their laws, and all that. And, of course, ROEs are completely different between military and civilian. But, for me, I start

Bob DeMarco [00:29:55]:
What are ROEs? Sorry. I don't

Denny Furey [00:29:58]:
oh, rules of engagement.

Bob DeMarco [00:29:59]:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm not Yeah.

Denny Furey [00:30:01]:
Yeah. We're not oh, yeah. We're not we're not gonna frag somebody on the street. Right. But but, like, when I started I mean, I started off basic patrolman, and I worked all all the way up through I I was the chief of police when I retired. My last 10 years were in SWAT, and I was also a SWAT instructor. So I had all that, and I I actually sat on what in Oklahoma, it's called the Council of Law Enforcement Education and Training. And I sat on what they call the curriculum action board when they first started it back in the early this was early 2000.

Denny Furey [00:30:37]:
And basically, we we would write and and do all the curriculum for specific, you know, schools and stuff like that we we would do. And I rewrote, back then SWAT training and all that and put on classes. And I implemented because of my edged weapons training. I implemented that into into my SWAT training. Now, like, it's different too between SWAT and your basic patrolman. Most departments are gonna have some kind if you're allowed to carry a knife, we're gonna have some kind of policy and procedure on it, what it can be used for, what it can't be used for, and all that. Some departments, I mean, you can use it to cut a seat belt. That's about it.

Denny Furey [00:31:22]:
You can't use it for anything else. The department I was with, it could be used it it fell in the use of force continuum. So if I used it, you know, and I went to stab somebody, it's considered deadly force. I mean, you had to go through a use of force hearing. You had to fill out a use of force form and put it in your report and all that just like using a firearm.

Bob DeMarco [00:31:42]:
I I was gonna say that, well, you say just like using a firearm, but to a jury or, to the average person, it seems much more grievous. You know?

Denny Furey [00:31:53]:
It's it's more, it's, from personal experience, it's it's more personal. It's not like I mean, because, like, from a distance, when I put I I have to shoot a suspect. Okay? And I wind up in an officer while shooting. It's there's I mean, yeah, there's there's there's a mental aspect. You gotta deal with everything else, but it's it's more disconnected. When you're fighting for your life and somebody's on top of you and everything else and you can't pull your gun or you don't want to because they get a hold of it and you go to a blade, it's it's close. It's it's it's more personal. And the thing is, is that because I've had experiences with that and when I go to teach this and, like, when I first started teaching law enforcement guys and even military guys that have it, you know, that were in not in, like, combat, you know, career fields.

Denny Furey [00:32:51]:
Just doing the techniques and I'm, like, showing them where to actually, you know, strike. I mean, because you've done the Cali stuff and all that. You know, sticking a knife into somebody's armpit or or going into the brachial artery. So, I mean, they're like they they cringe, and it's like, you know, it's something yeah. It's not gonna be it's not gonna be pleasant. It's gonna be messy and it's gonna be personal. And the thing is too and, you know, especially if it winds up on the other hand where you don't have one in your hand, you're having to fight for your life against somebody with it. I mean, the the fight is completely different as well.

Denny Furey [00:33:24]:
So, I mean, when it comes down to a blade use and a use of force compared to a firearm use, yeah, it's it's it's it's night and day, when you put it in an aspect of how it feels and how you have to deal with it.

Bob DeMarco [00:33:42]:
Well, how did you incorporate it, into SWAT training? And I don't necessarily need specifics, but was it a part of the hand to hand, bit of the training and you just kinda put the the knife in there?

Denny Furey [00:33:56]:
Yes. Because I mean, the thing is, a lot of times when you're going in, you're gonna have have it I have, you know, some kind of a edged weapon on your kit at some place, whether it be for something at close close range and all that. Unlike in the military, you know, you'll have an affixed bayonet. You know, in in SWAT, you go through a door, and I have my my primary firearm, my rifle. And more than likely, the first thing I do, if I turn the corner and I I have to engage somebody close range, and I can't tell if they're armored, and I can't just shoot them. So most, you know, in a lot case, I'll muzzle fump them and knock them back. Now, if I knock them back and they still don't have a gun on them, but they're still coming at me, I may have to do something else. Me for me, I'll go to Blake because I know where for me, I can articulate in my training, you know, if I have to write a report, I knew where to stick the guy or what I needed to do to get him off.

Denny Furey [00:34:49]:
And this is where, like, the training where I implemented in there that these officers, once they were trained, can do that and articulate it in a report. Because when it comes down to it, like, I'll even teach when I teach civilians, VEDJ weapons, you have to you have to sit there and I tell them, you have to understand, you're standing in a you know, your 3 foot little bubble around you, your personal space. Is it worth you're I mean, you're gonna be put in handcuffs. Even in self defense, you're gonna be put in handcuffs. You're probably gonna go to jail and get booked in. It's gonna you're gonna go through court and all that, you know, in a lot of cases where and then it'll be deemed self defense. But the thing is it's a lot of a a lot of headache to go through. So is getting it down there and articulating that, you know, I was I was in fear of my life, but to an aspect where that I knew I could control the situation instead of discharging my firearm or so on that I could the guy was reaching for my firearm.

Denny Furey [00:35:46]:
I went and I did a lateral cut to his to the outside of his the muscle on his arm, causing a, you know, a psychological a psychological injury where he looks down, he sees he's bleeding, he stops, that type of stuff.

Bob DeMarco [00:36:00]:
A lot of people well, I get comments from time to time, when talking about, the effectiveness of knives as a self defense weapon or as a weapon at all. I mean, obviously, we know it's it's great as a murder weapon. But

Denny Furey [00:36:16]:
Oh, yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:36:16]:
But but you'll you'll hear people, I would just use my gun. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight. And, yes, all those things are true. But you you mentioned escalation of force. You mentioned a continuum of force

Denny Furey [00:36:28]:
and Yes.

Bob DeMarco [00:36:29]:
That there are, things change and, you know, physical confrontation is dynamic, and, you you can't tell where it's gonna go and to and to rule out not so what I'm hearing from you, an experienced military and law enforcement, officer, is that, people really do use knives, in even when guns are involved.

Denny Furey [00:36:54]:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've I've seen situations where, you know, where I go to I go to resolve. And I get there, and, you know, we get the stories from the parties and everything else. 1 guy I mean, I had 1, and this was probably and I was I was a, a patrolman at the time. And what it was a basic assault at a party. We got there, and apparently, 2 parties got into it. 1 brandished a weapon, firearm.

Denny Furey [00:37:24]:
The other guy thought he was gonna go for the gun, so he pulled a knife and stuck the dude in the arm. Well, I mean, honestly, it it it it would work. I mean and the of course, I mean, you go down we we went through the case and and and sat through it and listened to, you know, testimony of that. He wound up getting off on self defense just because, you know, brandishing, a weapon in that manner as a threat, I mean, it it it could be it could be considered an escalation of force. I mean, because, like, with law enforcement or anybody, your first level of force is verbal. Okay? And then physic and and then a physical mo physical motion or or or or hands on, like, where I have to put my hand on you to back you off. Then I go into pain compliance with with my hands. Next would be impact weapons or less than lethal taser, things like that.

Denny Furey [00:38:15]:
But the thing is, when you look at this, even going knife and firearm, all that, even the taser can be a lethal weapon. You hit the wrong person with it, it could kill them.

Bob DeMarco [00:38:23]:
Yeah. They hit the floor, hit their head.

Denny Furey [00:38:25]:
That or and then not only that, somebody's got an arrhythmia. It's you've seen it poop. I've we it's it's no joke. We've seen it happen in videos is, you know, you pepper spray a guy, and then you hit him with the hit him with the taser, and they ignite because of the alcohol in it. Yeah. Yeah. Catch their clothes on fire. And, yeah, wind up with guy winds up with burns.

Denny Furey [00:38:45]:
I mean, it happens. But it's it it some of this stuff is unforeseeable. I mean, it's you're not gonna know. You go out on you go out on somebody and, you know, you're not gonna know if they have a heart issue. You know? You you the guy's all hyped up and and, you know, you gotta tase them. You're not gonna know that that less than lethal may kill. But, you know, when it comes down to, like, blades and all that, I mean, you're you're walking a fine line of of an appropriate use of force and deadly force, if you don't know what you're using it for. And that's where it when it comes down to, you know, the things you were saying about people saying, you know, don't bring a knife to a gun fight, or I'll just use my gun.

Denny Furey [00:39:25]:
You know, in some situations, if you don't know if you don't have the training, I wouldn't pull a blade, and I wouldn't use it.

Bob DeMarco [00:39:32]:
Yeah. I mean, I mean, you would say that in probably most cases or many cases, if it's your only choice and it's your only option, you know, and and your life is in danger, yeah, go for it. But it is really easy, for someone who's trained to take well, I shouldn't say that. I should not say it's really easy to take a knife from someone. But, if you can be overpowered, you know, I've been overpowered before just in training. I've been overpowered and thought, like, my my skills were superior, but I was still overpowered. You know? Yeah. So, it can happen to anyone.

Denny Furey [00:40:11]:
And that's what I mean, like, the thing I said, like that's why, like, when we did the thing with Doug, my whole thing was using the using the the knife as a, weapon retention, implement. So, you know, I'm doing it to protect my firearm. So if somebody because a lot of times, you you get a drunk suspect or a suspect that just doesn't care, he goes for your firearm. You know, you may have a triple retention holster on, but what if he breaks it loose? That or the ins the an incident that I had where the guy wound up on top of me outweighing me by a £150. You know, I don't wanna pull my gun out, drop it, still have to fight with this guy. And while I'm trying to hold on to this guy for dear life, he gets a hold of my gun and kills me. You know, I'll take I'll I'll take the chance of dropping my knife. Because then if he gets that and I feel myself get stuck with that, I know it's do or die time.

Denny Furey [00:41:02]:
I'm picking the pistol up. You know? But that's like like I said, we're talking about, like, different aspects. We're talking about a level of training that most people don't have.

Bob DeMarco [00:41:12]:
Okay. So we were talking about ring knives, and I know that that's, your forte, or or something that you love and that you put a lot of trust in. And, I I'm also presuming a lot of, people in, in law enforcement and military like them also for their retention and and for the ease of deployment. You know? You grab that ring. One of the knives one of my daily fixed blade knives, that I carry is, is a ringed knife by, it's the Night Stalker by TKEL, and I love how easily it's it's drawn.

Denny Furey [00:41:47]:
I see.

Bob DeMarco [00:41:48]:
But I can't help but think of what some people have said, and this, this one person in particular comes from experience, people that they've seen is degloving, that horrible term, where where where it pulls the skin and muscle off your finger if you're you're have you seen any of that, out there or, you know, any any concerns about that?

Denny Furey [00:42:15]:
Not with an appropriate size ring. I mean, now I've seen a lot of times with the government. That's why, like, a lot of guys in in law enforcement or or first responders don't wear wedding rings. Something that's on there tight that's gonna catch, you're gonna wind up. That is a real a real issue. The thing is, if I pull something like this, you're gonna have to twist this thing really long and more and more than likely, it's not gonna be it's gonna it'll break my finger if you get a but you're gonna be grabbing a hold of the blade to twist it like this. If it's an appropriate sized hole, and usually mine are anywhere from, 1 and 1 eighth to 1 and 3 sixteenths. So you can wear it with a glove on or or it's just but it has enough that it's not sloppy, and it's you're gonna lose control of it.

Denny Furey [00:43:06]:
But you that risk of of actually, you know, stripping your finger or winding up with an avulsion where you pull the skin right off your finger, it's highly unlikely in something like this, especially with properly made ones. I mean, I think with the teacal one you're talking about, I mean, it's almost comfort fitted on the inside. It's rounded. Yeah. It's it's smooth. Yeah. So and if it's the proper size and all that, I don't think that's a true risk when it comes to something like this. A broken finger is more is more than likely.

Denny Furey [00:43:36]:
And that's why one thing I tell like, when I'm teaching this and people want the ring, like, this this is one thing. Okay? These are this finger is really strong. I don't like this.

Bob DeMarco [00:43:50]:
Not a big fan.

Denny Furey [00:43:51]:
No. Because that finger is one of the weakest ones on the hand. And that one, I mean, it's not gonna take much just from the angle. So that's why I mean, I if you're gonna if you're gonna carry it like that, make it so your hand's on the outside of it. But, yeah, I I don't I don't really condone that because we just I mean, get I mean, it's bad enough boxing and all that. Right. You can you can box all your life, and you're still gonna wind up with boxer's fractures

Announcer [00:44:19]:
Yeah.

Denny Furey [00:44:19]:
Right. On this that side of your hand.

Bob DeMarco [00:44:21]:
The, a lot of karambits out there don't have the appropriate alignment, or they have, too small the the holes are too small. I couldn't imagine it with, with gloves. Your your point about the the hole diameter is a is a a good one. And, yeah, I always I I like I said, I went through a brief period of time where I was like, no more ringed things, and then I was like, wait a second. I love them. So have you seen, in in the past 10 years, a, infusion of karambits into the into the everyday market, like into the gas station knife and people thinking they're the ultimate weapon.

Denny Furey [00:45:04]:
Yeah. And the thing is, like and you want because you you can go on YouTube all day. You'll see these guys bashing them for for them. And, yeah, I mean, and the thing is, when it comes down to it, is is is training them. I mean, even Doug will tell you. I mean, if you don't know how to use one, I won't be sitting there flipping them around and everything else. People get them for being flashy. It's almost like the ballast song movement where, you know Yeah.

Denny Furey [00:45:23]:
You know, you so you got sport flippers. I mean and that's that's fine. But, like, you get in the street and you pull out like, this is one of my my coaches that I carry all the time. This is this is a crudo. It's got it's perfectly aligned in my hand. I still make a fist. It's got good size on

Bob DeMarco [00:45:41]:
it. Nice.

Denny Furey [00:45:42]:
But but I'm not gonna sit here and flip it around because the thing is, you wind up if you start doing it wrong, it comes back and you embed that thing in your wrist. Flails and extensions, I mean, that's a different story because you're using it to strike with the top of the blade. That, or you're using it as an extension to do your draw cut. But I'm not gonna sit there and be flipping it all around and everything else and doing it for show like, you know, like a balisong knife.

Bob DeMarco [00:46:06]:
Yeah. Yeah. The

Denny Furey [00:46:06]:
But you do see people doing it.

Bob DeMarco [00:46:08]:
The the flails yeah. Yeah. You do. The the flails could be tricky with a folding karambat, I think. Yes. It it it could might fold, but but the pulls and the and the things on the other side. What do you think of Pakal style knives?

Denny Furey [00:46:24]:
I like, yeah, I like Pakal too. I've got a a similar version that the one here, this day this daily EDC one that I showed you. Yeah. I actually have one where it's flipped over in reverse grip. Oh, nice. Nice. I have a a PCAL version of it. But, yeah, I I I like those too just because if somebody's more apt to constantly carry in reverse grip instead of having to do the unorthodox where you have, you know, the blade here where you're where you're having to hold it like this instead.

Denny Furey [00:46:50]:
Right. It feels unnatural having it on this side because it's it's just not fitting in your hand right where it would be this way and having the blade Yeah. You know, on that side drawn that way. Look. I mean, teachers don't I mean, I still do it sometimes like this. I but I if I reverse grip it, I like having it like this because most times, it's just it's a get off me move just to get somebody off.

Bob DeMarco [00:47:11]:
So, in terms of, where you see the the knife market around you. Where do you see the place for fixed blade knives and and custom and combat and self defense knives? Are they growing in popularity? Are they, Yeah. I know EDC's a real big thing, small folders and stuff. But, but just in terms of the kind of knives you make.

Denny Furey [00:47:41]:
Yeah. And I do custom folders too, but that's like I I do them limited because they I do everything by hand on manual mills. And like you were talking about the funny thing is you were talking about the the karambits, you know, doing an extend do doing flails with them. Most of the ones I make are lock backs. So that way, it not it stops that from happening. That's like, I've got a model that I make for, karambit.com, and they have it on there. And I do that quite a bit. But, I've literally, I mean, since I've since I've found my mission in the market doing it and all that, I haven't I I mean, I stay booked, and I'm constantly selling myself out.

Denny Furey [00:48:20]:
Like, from this the the last show when you saw me, I had 3 knives, and they were all they they were 3 of my high end ones. But I sold them when I got back, and I have 2 left. And I have and and they're either, like, and then I like daggers and things of that nature. But, I mean, it the old style, like, this is more of an English style handle, but I like doing the, you know, the Fairbairn style leather handles and stuff like that. I mean, those are they're they're classics, and people are constantly going to them anyways just because they like having the it's it's a piece of history. Even though it may not be an original, it's something that was carried by, you know, guys in World War 1, World War 2.

Bob DeMarco [00:48:57]:
Yeah. The the daggers don't go out of style. They're they will always

Denny Furey [00:49:02]:
No. No.

Bob DeMarco [00:49:02]:
They will always be here. I remember, at the show, there were you had something. It it wasn't this buoy that, he's going by, but it was it was it it was reminiscent of a kind of a of a k bar, if I remember correctly, with a big fuller in the side, clip point. Had it had a sort of combat look, like an old school, but sort of modernized. And I saw a guy buying it, and I was so jealous.

Denny Furey [00:49:29]:
Yeah. And I just this is one I just made for the show, and it's it's something I used to do I used to do a lot of, and I just got back into them, but, the trench knives.

Bob DeMarco [00:49:38]:
Yes.

Denny Furey [00:49:39]:
Yeah. But, yeah, this got carbon fiber and okay. But I I I really like the old trench knives and everything. And, I mean, I did a couple, like, old 19 eighteens. I'd really like to be able to, like, do my own and, my own brass brass ones and do all that, but I don't like to smelt and do all that other stuff. So

Bob DeMarco [00:50:02]:
Wait. Wait. Let's see that.

Denny Furey [00:50:03]:
I'll give you this whole thing with

Bob DeMarco [00:50:04]:
I've been I've been watching this I've been watching this come together on Instagram, this last batch, and and, this is cool. I like the, finger break in the center.

Denny Furey [00:50:15]:
Yeah. And and I usually sometimes I'll do it all the way across.

Bob DeMarco [00:50:19]:
Uh-huh.

Denny Furey [00:50:19]:
And I'll have it all the way. But I've done different ones like that where I'll just have, like, almost like a finger the first one will have a finger ring, and these will all be open. But yeah. And I've done the classic where they're all just coming through.

Bob DeMarco [00:50:31]:
That is sweet. So how do you choose the blade for something like that? Because I'm I'm always thinking it's gotta have a back edge because, of course, when you use that knife, you're gonna come up behind someone and cut their throat like an old movie.

Denny Furey [00:50:44]:
Well, it you you they have the ones where there's there's that you know, your dagger style. Yeah. Like, the old 19 eighteens and things like that. And I I've done those too. These ones here, I mean, the thing is even if you're gonna cut their throat with it or anything else, you probably punch them in the back of the head first. Yeah. It's gonna be ringing. You can just take it, do whatever you want, and just turn it around.

Denny Furey [00:51:02]:
But, yeah, I mean, I I I've I've done every type of version using a blade. I've done a clip point, like a Bowie style. This one, I just did it because I had I started doing a bunch of the military, order ones, and I figured why not do the same blade style on the front of this one. And, like, the top of this is super thin too. So if I if there was something we wanted to, an edge could be put on it.

Bob DeMarco [00:51:28]:
So what what are the knives like, when you when you make stuff, you you you basically have indicated that you have books, but they're not, too far out because you don't want people lingering. But it also seems just like from your Instagram feed that you produce stuff and you also make it available.

Denny Furey [00:51:45]:
Yes.

Bob DeMarco [00:51:45]:
What what is the kind of stuff that you find goes quickest? Is it what you imagine it will be or what?

Denny Furey [00:51:54]:
Sometimes and sometimes, some of the weirdest crap I make sells because, like, I I'll honestly, you know, I'll be doing orders or or making stuff for shows, and I'll have scrap left. Right? And I don't I I try to make use of everything, whether it's forging Damascus or or if I it's a piece that has a unique shape, I'll make it into, see if I got because I had saved the picture. Because I wanna I thought something like this would pop up. Yes. But I I made this thing out of a scrap, and it's sold like let's see if you can hopefully pick this up in the

Bob DeMarco [00:52:32]:
Oh, yeah.

Denny Furey [00:52:33]:
It's a scrap piece, and it's got, like, an arrowhead point. It's dual edged and everything, but it's like a quick, you know, a quick little neck knife. But it's stuff like that, like, you're you're thinking, that's gonna be around for a while. It's like one of the first things to go here. So, you know, I mean, I I have pretty much everything, like, the shows I make, and I've been doing it, pretty much every show now is I'll make it available because I have people constantly while I'm building these things ask me, you know, well, how can I get that? I'll say, you know, you need to come to the show, but, you know, there's people living halfway across the country, and they can't make it. So what I usually do now is I'll open up, online sales for the stuff on the table at the same time. And that's why, I mean, like, like the last show, I had left I had 4 pieces left. And my wife's always going, you're making too much.

Denny Furey [00:53:25]:
You're making too much. And I wind up selling it. She goes, oh, okay. And I'm like, yeah. I thought it was gonna sell. And, you know, I get back, and it's like some things. Like, the one you he was showing under that survival life, I forgot to take it down. I saw that's gone.

Denny Furey [00:53:38]:
And, I mean, I that's styled after it was a dagger style, but it's styled after the old, you know, the old ones we had growing up in the 19 eighties. That had the Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:53:46]:
With the compass.

Denny Furey [00:53:47]:
Had the little compass on the back. But the thing is, you know, the tang was that big and it would break. Yeah. That's a through tang. It goes all the way to the end, and it's got a thread rod. So that bolt pulls on, pulls the blade in, but you open that thing up, there's a there's a ferro rod in there. There's fishing line, all that stuff. Because I know I I'll I'll take it to the lathe, and the handle's made of, 7072 aluminum.

Denny Furey [00:54:08]:
And I'll I'll put all that stuff in there. You have all the stuff you had when you were a kid, except that thing's not gonna break on you.

Bob DeMarco [00:54:14]:
That is cool. I did not realize that. It it I thought the handle looked a little long. I was like, what's going on with the handle? And that makes sense. That knife I think you and I are the same age, judging judging from your, email address. And, and that knife was a huge part of my, you know Yep. Teen or not teenage, but, like, adolescence. It was it was the closest thing I could get to a Rambo knife until I got a Fury, actually, a Fury survival knife.

Bob DeMarco [00:54:42]:
I don't know if you remember that company from way back then.

Denny Furey [00:54:44]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I had we had I got because I remember we because when I got my first one and they we ordered it had to have dad get it, but, you know, you ordered it out of a out of a out of a comic book. Yeah. And I got one of those one of them came in a cheap leather sheet with a little with a little sharpening stone in the front pouch, and then, you know, you had the little the little water filled compass on it. And I was like, I always wanted to make something that's gonna stand up to it.

Denny Furey [00:55:07]:
And I've done 3 of those, some of some of the saw backs on them and everything. And, yeah, those thing those are another ones that, yeah, go that I think I'll hang on so far, and then they're gone. And it's usually the nostalgia guys like us that wind up buying them.

Bob DeMarco [00:55:20]:
Yeah. So, like, I I always wanted one that's good, and finally, someone's making one. Denny, b before I let you go here, and and I hope you're you're free for another 10 minutes, on the other side Oh, yeah. Do an interview, little, extra bit that we can give to Patreon, members. That'd be great. But, and I'll ask you some other stuff there. But but here, I wanna ask you, just in general, what are your impressions of, running a small or what is your experience in running a small business in knives in this day and age, and what advice would you give, someone who's embarking on that?

Denny Furey [00:56:01]:
Well, when I started, luckily, I had a couple guys. I mean, nobody was local, but I had a couple good mentors. And I never honestly, never thought I'd be I'd be doing this. And sitting here now, you know, having this interview with you is, like, being where I'm at. But the thing is, if you have the drive and and and you you really wanna do something like this, don't just jump into it and go willy nilly. I mean, the thing is just do as much, you know, research and studying. And that's why, I mean, before I even started selling my stuff to general public, most of most of the stuff that I sold were to friends, military buddies. That they 22 guys that I one of my troops and then one of my supervisors have my first two knives.

Denny Furey [00:56:42]:
They're always wanting he goes, you want this back? I'm like, no. I wanted I want you to have it. I want you to hang on to it. I was like, because I don't wanna look at it again. It's it's it's horrifying. But, you get all these guys. And the thing is, I've talked to Doug about this too and even to Jay. It's like, you know, a lot of people see it's it's been a it's been a a godsend and a devil, forcing fire.

Denny Furey [00:57:06]:
It's made all these people think they could be knife just going, I can do what they're doing. You know, you're but you're seeing a portion of what they do, and they go out and try it. They burn their house down. Mhmm. That or you're you're you're not using the right steel, and you're constantly seeing this in these groups. And my thing is is, like, I like being I got into a guild where everybody helps everybody. It's great. And once I got in, some of these guys that I go to shows with now, they're like, when we first saw the stuff you were making, we didn't think you were gonna make it.

Denny Furey [00:57:36]:
He goes, but you he goes, but you're stuck with it. He goes, I said, that's the whole thing. And then I constantly once you guys start telling me it was great when guys I I don't mind people coming up and telling me, you know, even being an ass about it and telling me, that looks like crap. You know, even now, if it looks like crap to somebody, I'll take into consideration, get their feedback, and see if it needs to be refined. That's like you were talking about, you know, making making blades and stuff that you constantly I'm constantly finding I'm constantly redrawing stuff or redoing it in CAD and making tweaks on it, just to, you know, I'll I'll look back at it and say, now I'll pick it up and I'll feel it doesn't it doesn't feel right and try something different with it. But the thing is, is that with these new guys coming out is is find somebody you can mentor under. Honestly, I mean, now I constantly got guys now asking me to teach class. I just don't have the space or the ability to do it, but I'll I'll mentor.

Denny Furey [00:58:32]:
I mean, guys in the guild I mean, I've got a guy now. This kid, he he threw himself into her heart and soul, and he listens to he listened to everything I told him. I'm like, look. I said and and I told him, just don't get advice from me. I said, you got master Smiths in our booth. I said, talk to them too and get their feedback. And, you know, and you're gonna get, you know, you're gonna talk to 50 different people. You're gonna get 50 different ways to do something.

Denny Furey [00:58:56]:
But you're gonna you you may take a a portion of each thing that you've heard from them and make it your way, and it's gonna come out the way you want it. It's gonna come out the way your customer likes it. And it's the thing is is you if if you're that passionate about it, you you you gotta keep keep learning. And it's the same thing I do. I like teaching, like, martial arts, law enforcement, or even and I the thing is is the day and it seemed true today is I yeah. I've only been doing this 8 years, and I you know, I'm friends with guys like, you know, like Gil Hibben or or Stanley Bussbeck and stuff. These guys have been making for 30 years, and they are they'll constantly say, I'm still learning today. And the thing is, the the day you think you've learned it all, pack it up.

Denny Furey [00:59:41]:
Because, you know, first of all, your ego is getting involved. And second of all, you're wrong because there's always more to learn. Always. And this whole thing is just I mean, it's everything is a learning a a a learning progression. And I mean, if that was if if it wasn't the case for me, I wouldn't be I wouldn't be sitting here having this conversation with you because I wouldn't see you at a show. I wouldn't have been doing the stuff I've been doing. I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't be actually making a living off of me because you hear all the knife makers going, how do you become a millionaire as as a knife maker? Start off with $2,000,000. You'll be down to a1000000 in the 1st year.

Denny Furey [01:00:20]:
Yeah. And that's the whole thing is like but the thing is, it's all about learning your audience. Like we just discussed is like, you know, I do a lot of everything, hunting knives, kitchen knives, all that. But my my my main group that that I made for that is causing hit me up are the military and the first responders, you know, and and the the self defense martial arts aspect of it.

Bob DeMarco [01:00:45]:
There it is. Denny Fury, thank you so much of Fury Urban Combat Knives Unlimited. Thank you very much, sir. It was awesome to catch up with you and find out about, about your company and and your career in knives. It's been a pleasure.

Denny Furey [01:00:59]:
Thanks for having me, Bob. It's great to keep catching up with you. It was great to meet you, and hope to

Bob DeMarco [01:01:04]:
see you again. Absolutely. Take care.

Denny Furey [01:01:05]:
You too. .

Announcer [01:01:06]:
Wanna start a podcast? You'll need podcast hosting, the knifejunkie.com/podhost. If you search Google for the best knife podcast, the answer is the Knife Junkie podcast.

Bob DeMarco [01:01:17]:
There he goes, ladies and gentlemen. Denny Furey of Furey's Urban Combat Knives Unlimited. Do check him out on Instagram, and also go to his website. He's got a great, website with beautiful photography of, ton of knives that he's made. And, I know a lot of people here have similar taste in knives and fixed blade knives and fighting self defense knives, And, it's a treat. Go do yourself a favor and check out his work. All right. Be sure to join us on Wednesday for the midweek supplemental Thursday or Thursday night knives, live 10 PM Eastern Standard Time right here on YouTube, Facebook, and Twitch.

Bob DeMarco [01:01:56]:
For Jim, working his magic behind the switcher. I'm Bob DeMarco saying until next time, don't take dull for an answer.

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