The Knife Junkie Podcast is the place for knife newbies and knife junkies to learn about knives and knife collecting. Twice per week Bob DeMarco talks knives. Email Bob at theknifejunkie@gmail.com; visit https://theknifejunkie.com.
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Announcer [00:00:03]:
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast, your weekly dose of knife news and information about knives and knife collecting. Here's your host, Bob the Knife Junkie DeMarco.

Bob DeMarco [00:00:16]:
Welcome to the knife junkie podcast. I'm Bob DeMarco. On this edition of the show, I'm speaking with Jess Hoffman of Jay Hoffman Knives. Jess hails from Northeast Wisconsin where he has transformed his hobby into a part time career, making heirloom quality knives from scratch for the outdoor enthusiast. His first knives were made with a file and a lot of elbow grease. But today, he's got a fully fledged shop and a much broader buying public, with his fixed blade knives just selling out at knives ship free. We'll meet Jess and find out all about how he turned his hobby and evolved it into something greater. But first, be sure to like, comment, subscribe, hit the notification bell, and download the show to your favorite podcast app.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:00]:
You see, that way, you can listen on the go. And if you wanna help support the show, quickest way to do that is to head on over to Patreon. You can go to the knifejunkie.com/patreon and check out what we have to offer, or you can scan the QR code on your screen. Again, that's the knifejunkie.com/patreon.

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Bob DeMarco [00:01:39]:
Jess, welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast, sir.

Jess Hoffman [00:01:42]:
Thank you for having me.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:43]:
It is a pleasure, and I wanna congratulate you. As I mentioned upfront, you just had a big run of knives at Kniveship Free. And, the second time I looked, you there were, like, two knives left, and now it's all sold out. So congratulations, sir.

Jess Hoffman [00:01:59]:
Excellent.

Bob DeMarco [00:02:00]:
Yeah. So that's that's a that's a heck of an accomplishment.

Jess Hoffman [00:02:03]:
Yeah. I've, I've been working with Jay since the beginning or the end of last year, over at Knife Shipfree, and he's a great great guy to work with, and it's been a it's been a beneficial partnership.

Bob DeMarco [00:02:18]:
How does one get involved? We're gonna talk all about your knife making and your career and all that. But Sure. Just since we're talking about knife ship free right now, how how do you knife makers get involved with retailers like that? How does that work?

Jess Hoffman [00:02:31]:
There's only been a couple of dealers that I've dealt with. I only deal with I'll only deal with one dealer at a time. And both times, it was me approaching them. The the, they they did show some interest at first, but the the final deal was me approaching them and and asking whether or not they'd be interested. So

Bob DeMarco [00:03:02]:
Okay. Okay. Because, I've gotten a little bit of a a view of it from a blade show where you see there are, you know, there are knife makers, obviously, there are retailers. And I see that a lot of meetings happen and, and there's a lot of and then there's, Arizona Custom Knives that comes through and and kinda cleans up and takes everything else, which I think is great too. But, it seems like as it's it's it's like a slightly less complicated version of how a filmmaker gets distribution for a movie.

Jess Hoffman [00:03:32]:
Well, I wouldn't know anything about that. So, but, yeah, I do have a couple on on, Arizona. And one of the reasons I I put some knives up on Arizona is a lot of times when you search a knife maker, that is one of the first, one of the first returns that'll show up in a in a search engine. And Arizona has they they've cataloged every knife they've ever sold pretty much, and you can go back in there and and look at stuff that's sold ten years ago. And that's that's just a a really cool thing for knife makers or enthusiasts to be able to do.

Bob DeMarco [00:04:11]:
I agree a %. I love Arizona Custom Knives. I don't think I'm I'm positive I've never gotten anything from them, but they are an endless font, for research or at least for getting the the tip of the iceberg. And then you can just see, like like you said, everything they've ever sold. You you you can just go back page after page after page. And, yeah, I do love that about them. So let's talk about your knife making. I, read on your website, and we talked we've talked a little bit before this recording, and you mentioned how you made your your first knives with files.

Bob DeMarco [00:04:48]:
And we're not talking about, the the file wasn't the wasn't the blade stock. The file was the tool you used to actually, get the knife to make the knife. Tell me what that's like. That's gotta be intense.

Jess Hoffman [00:05:01]:
Yeah. It is. It was it was lots of, lots of time down in my my basement with a I I took a a piece of ten eighty four, and, I had I had cut it out with a hacksaw and a, just a like, a four and a half inch disc grinder, kinda grounded to shape, and actually took wood screws and screwed it to a two by four and stuck the two by four into a vise and, just started filing away on it. And, yeah, that's how I that's how I made my my first knife. I still have that one. So

Bob DeMarco [00:05:41]:
So how did how did you manage to assuming that you made even ish bevels, I'm sure they're nothing like what you're making now, but how did you ensure, that with a file you're able to get even, even bevels? Because I imagine you're doing this and there's some some amount of rock. I'm I'm exaggerating here, but there there must be some amount of rocking, between the two hands and then the the fulcrum, there with the file. How did you make it so that it was, you know, a decent knife?

Jess Hoffman [00:06:14]:
Sure. So the the the easiest way to remove a a lot of material from from steel is not the conventional way of filing. It's actually if you you take the handle in one hand and the tip of the file in the other, and you draw it back and forth And, and actually push push the file and and draw the file, and you'll end up getting a lot flatter bevel. My my first one still wasn't a a flat bevel, but, it it turned out it's it was a usable knife. I used it in the kitchen for quite a while, for quite a few years, and or I finally just retired it and put it on my shelf.

Bob DeMarco [00:06:59]:
Went to the museum. So how many how many knives did you make that way before you started

Jess Hoffman [00:07:05]:
Just the one.

Bob DeMarco [00:07:06]:
Oh, okay.

Jess Hoffman [00:07:07]:
Just the one, and I and I I knew that it was something that I was interested in and something I wanted to continue to do. And but I I knew I I didn't wanna do it that way anymore. So, yeah, I I ordered a grinder right away pretty much.

Bob DeMarco [00:07:24]:
Now would you say that, okay, you're moving on to Grindr, bigger tools, different kind of, process. But would you say you learned anything from the slowness of that file process?

Jess Hoffman [00:07:40]:
Yeah. For for me, it was really relaxing, and and there are still parts of of knife making that are very relaxing for me. And it generally, it's the grinding bevels that's, that's something that I I still enjoy doing, which was what I was doing with the filing. But, yeah. It's almost, almost a relaxing thing to, to do.

Bob DeMarco [00:08:06]:
So, well, actually, why in the first place knives? Are you a handy guy? Have you always been a maker of stuff? And and why knives?

Jess Hoffman [00:08:17]:
No. I I haven't been really. In high school, I I took some shop classes, woodshop, and, I I was good at woodshop. I enjoyed it, but it sucks when you leave the high school woodshop and you wanna go, you know, work on your own projects and you don't have the the big Powermatic planer and the big 12 inch table saw and the 36 inch band saw, you know. It it kinda sucks when you don't have the big tools to to do the job. So I I got away from that right after high school. The the one thing I really liked about making knives was that it it's really an endless learning curve. There's you're working with you're you're doing metal work, you're doing woodwork, you're doing, if you get into the fancier stuff, you're gonna get into jewelry and and stone setting sometimes or, just different techniques that jewelers use.

Jess Hoffman [00:09:19]:
You you get into the the scientific side, the metallurgy. There's just so much to learn in this craft, and there's really no, there's no end in sight as far as what you can do to a knife to embellish it or to to make it better or different.

Bob DeMarco [00:09:38]:
You know, the the the thing, to me that seems the most rewarding just in talking to many people like yourself, knife makers, is that when you're done with the process, which is I mean, I I haven't I've made a couple of knives, but I can't call certainly can't call myself a knife maker. But at the end of that process, that involved process, you've got a a tool. It's like, you're you're you're taking you're going through this, long drawn out process to get to the end. And the end is just the beginning for that thing because it's a tool, and and and it will go on for many, many years and and do work. What's it like knowing that you're making something that's actually useful and not just something that gets hung on a wall?

Jess Hoffman [00:10:21]:
That's what I like. And I I don't I I always say that I don't make safe queens. I don't make knives that I I I don't want somebody to buy one of my knives and just put it on a shelf and and look at it and never use it. I want somebody to carry that knife, and I want it to be a tool that, that performs for them and and looks good doing it. But that that to me is the biggest the biggest compliment is when when somebody's actually using the knife because, you know, anybody can make a a knife shaped object. And, but but to actually make something that that performs well, that's that's an extra step or an extra level.

Bob DeMarco [00:11:07]:
So what to you is the most critical part of the process? I hear people say, people are fond of saying the heat treat is the sole of the blade. And I like that. Yeah. Sounds very dramatic. But but, you know, in earnest, what what do you think is the most important consideration when you're making a knife?

Jess Hoffman [00:11:25]:
And I'm I'm gonna say that the heat treat is is important because if you don't have it but, another other thing too that's really important is the geometry of the the bevels. And you'll notice most of my blades are full flat grinds or full hollow grinds. They're the the the bevels go all the way up to the spine, and that's just because that that lesser angle cuts better. It just performs better, as as opposed to a more, more steep angle or not a a less than full flat grind, I guess.

Bob DeMarco [00:12:09]:
Right. And there's some there seems to be some robustness to that kind of grind also. The the full flat, is what I'm thinking of.

Jess Hoffman [00:12:20]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:12:21]:
So, Jim is scrolling through, your pages right now, and I'm noticing the theme of not completely straight across the board, but a lot of these knives are named after, counties in Ireland. What, what is that theme about?

Jess Hoffman [00:12:39]:
So that is my, that's kind of my my paying homage to my mother's side of the family. My grandfather was a % Irish. My grandmother, I believe, was 75% Irish. She died when my mom was really young. So I I I wanted to pay homage to the the Irish side of my family, And I I looked and, you know, the the Irish county names sounded pretty cool. Most of them did. There's some of them that I I have no idea how to pronounce, so I'm not naming knives after that. There's a county Mayo.

Jess Hoffman [00:13:22]:
I'm you know, obviously, Tom Mayo is a a very accomplished knife maker. I'm not gonna make a a Jay Hoffman knife Mayo model because, you know, that just be that would be very dumb of me. So yeah. So there's some of them that I I don't use, and I've I've kinda gotten away from from using the Irish names just because I've, I've run out of ones that are are easy to say, or or easy to spell. So So

Bob DeMarco [00:13:55]:
some some some family inspiration in that, some, tribute to to, your family, your mom's side of the family. What about the inspiration for the designs themselves? What are you what are you thinking of? What what inspires you in terms of their designs, and what are you hoping these kind of knives or your knives are able to accomplish?

Jess Hoffman [00:14:17]:
So I I want them all to be useful, and that's and and I want them to be comfortable. And so many knives, they they just have a a blocky handle. And quite honestly, people don't generally hold a knife like that. I I don't. And I maybe I'm maybe I'm odd, but I don't. So most of my knives, I design them to to be used with a a three finger grip kind of with the the four finger up front. And this gives you a lot of control, and it usually, the the back of my my spine is is curved and rounded down, kinda fits into your hand really well, gives you a good grip. A lot of them, you can still use them with a a full grip.

Jess Hoffman [00:15:06]:
They're still comfortable that way, but that's just it's not the way I use a knife, and I know there's a lot of people that don't use a knife that way. So the the ergonomic shape of the handle, I think, for me is important. We're getting mosquitoes in Wisconsin.

Bob DeMarco [00:15:24]:
Oh, man. Lucky me.

Jess Hoffman [00:15:25]:
Yeah. Lucky me. They've they've been coming into the shop today. So

Bob DeMarco [00:15:30]:
I I remember driving through, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and, maybe the Dakotas when I was real little, with my family. And I remember you could saddle and ride the mosquitoes there. They were so, friendly, we can say.

Jess Hoffman [00:15:46]:
Friendly. Yeah. Yeah. They're not they're not big, but around here, they're not big, but it's just pure numbers of them. There's there's lots of them. So I I try to keep the shop closed up, but today was a beautiful day. So I had all the windows and door open and stuff, and shouldn't have done that.

Bob DeMarco [00:16:06]:
So let's talk about well, first of all, I I really like what you're talking about in terms of the purposeful ergonomics of them and how how most people actually use knives. And and, you know, you have to know what the knives are gonna be used for. You know, if if they're hunting knives, they're probably gonna be held in a certain way. You know, and, the fact that you make them comfortable to hold to grip in a sort of standard saber grip, but recognizing that most likely, these knives are gonna be used most often with three fingers on the, handle and then, a a forefinger up on the blade to guide it through whatever the job is. I I think that's cool because it's very purposeful. And when you do that, when designs, follow the purpose, they they tend to be beautiful to me. And and it work you know, they tend to work well. So, let's let's now go through your process.

Bob DeMarco [00:17:04]:
You know, we know you're not using files now. We know you have a a beautiful shop, around you. What's your process like?

Jess Hoffman [00:17:13]:
So I start with bars of steel or sheets of steel, and I I use a lot of AEBL. I do use some, some 5,100 for high carbon. I I do use some some MagnaCut, but I I order all new steel. I never use repurposed or saw blades or anything like that. And I've got templates for for all of my models, and I just I spray Dykem on the on the the bars of steel and trace out my shape. I cut them out with a band saw and and grind them to shape. There's a couple of my models that I I have water jetted just because I have I I make so many of them that it's it makes sense for me to have them water jetted, but, 90% of the knives that I make are are all ground shaped by me. After that, I I drill my holes for my my handles, my my, Corby bolts, and then they they go into heat treat.

Jess Hoffman [00:18:22]:
I have a when I first started and and I had a grinder, I was grinding post heat treat, and I just I or I'm sorry, preheat treat. I would I would grind the bevels and everything, and then I would heat treat it. And I just I found my process was a lot better, heat treating first and then and then grinding my bevels.

Bob DeMarco [00:18:49]:
So Why? Why is that? Because to me and I'll tell you the reason I ask is it seems like it would be easier to do before the heat treat, but then I know that that also introduces the possibility of warpage and stuff. So, I'm always kinda interested to find out when people do, grind.

Jess Hoffman [00:19:06]:
So the the warpage is a big issue. And when I first started, that was that was one of the main reasons because my my grinds weren't quite even on each side. So that just, helped the warpage warp even even more so. The the other issue that you run into is these are are plate quenched. So when they come out of the, out of the kiln, they get placed between two aluminum plates to to cool them quickly. And the issue that you have is when you put them between the plates, this whole section right here is not touching the plate. Anywhere where you ground the bevel, that's not gonna touch the plate. It's not gonna cool as quickly, and it's not going to heat treat as, it it's still gonna get hard.

Jess Hoffman [00:20:00]:
It's not gonna be the same as the rest of the blade though in the the handle area or the tank. So that was another big reason for me. And and quite honestly, with the grinders and the abrasives that we have nowadays, it it really doesn't matter. The the whole thing with grinding after heat treat is to make sure that you don't burn it and take the temper out of it. If you change the color of the steel, it's, it's pretty much junk at that point. And I've just I've gotten into the the rhythm when I'm grinding that I've always got a bucket of water right next to me. I take a pass on the grinder, it goes in the water. I take a pass on the grinder, it goes in the water.

Jess Hoffman [00:20:46]:
And it's I'm just constantly keeping it keeping it cool and, preventing any, loss of temper by by grinding too hard or too fast.

Bob DeMarco [00:21:00]:
I hadn't heard that explanation of, when you're when you're using the aluminum plates to quench that, you want the most surface area of that blade or that blank, essentially, to be touching as much of that, aluminum as possible to conduct the heat away from it. And if you have bevels there, those aren't touching and it's gonna take them it's gonna take that longer to cool down and that prob well, that I'm sure that jacks up the whole heat treat. That's my technical term, jacks it up, but you know Yes.

Jess Hoffman [00:21:32]:
Correct. Yeah. That's is there well, Larry and Thomas wouldn't wouldn't go with that answer, but, yeah, it's it jacks it up.

Bob DeMarco [00:21:43]:
So okay. So once you have it out, then then you get to what? The the the handle and the and the bevels?

Jess Hoffman [00:21:49]:
Yep. So after I after I quench them, they all all of my stainless blades go into liquid nitrogen, and, they they get a cryo, and then they go into the temporary. And then then it's, after grinding after grinding the bevels, it's, picking out handles. I've got, I've got these tackle boxes that I use, and I've actually got one blade in here. And I'll fill up the tackle box. The the blade goes in the one slot. There's a, a piece of paper that is gonna have all of the the blade information as far as what steel it is, who the customer is, and then what handle is is going on. And it helps me keep track of, what what knives are where.

Jess Hoffman [00:22:39]:
And, yeah, for me, picking out handles is I I have the, I I kinda collect handle material. So it's it's kinda like going to a restaurant that has, like, a six page menu, and you're trying to find, you know, what you want for dinner and there's too many choices Yeah. As opposed to going to the hot dog stand, you know you're getting a hot dog.

Bob DeMarco [00:23:02]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Jess Hoffman [00:23:03]:
So, yeah, I I have that issue, and there's there's times I'll spend twenty minutes to a half an hour with a a blade in my hand just matching up different pieces of wood or handle material or something like that just to to try to figure out what's gonna look cool with which blade.

Bob DeMarco [00:23:22]:
Well, what what's your favorite handle material, and is it your favorite material to work with?

Jess Hoffman [00:23:29]:
I I like old micarta, and I'm not even gonna say Westinghouse because, I've gotten some some vintage current Micarta that's, I I think, just as nice as old Westinghouse. I I love that stuff. I I think it looks really cool, and it patina's really nice. I also like rich light a lot, and, that that's kinda cool because you can get different there's a lot of different colors and they've got different layered colors and there's a lot you can do with that. But I I'm I'm fortunate that my neighbor is a timber buyer, and loggers hate burls, but he throws them on his log truck and drops them off in my yard when he gets enough of them. And so I I've got quite a bit of wood drying that I send off to KNG for stabilizing. So I I do some wood. I do some there really isn't a handle material that I won't that I won't use.

Jess Hoffman [00:24:32]:
I know some people refuse to use carbon fiber or, whatever. There really isn't anything that I'm, that I refuse to use, I guess.

Bob DeMarco [00:24:45]:
That's amazing that you have a neighbor who drops off wood burl for you because I could see why a logger would hate it, but, man, knife makers and craftsmen love burl. And, that do I I don't think I have any knives in my collection. I don't have too much wood, too many wood handled knives in my collection. I would like to, but nothing no Berl, and I just find it so beautiful.

Jess Hoffman [00:25:12]:
Okay. Yeah. It it's amazing what, you know, what you'll you'll cut into sometimes. And and when you look at burls on the outside, it's the ugly part of the tree. Yeah. But when you you cut them open, they're just they're amazing. Some it's it's incredible.

Bob DeMarco [00:25:32]:
So do you work do you make all these knives in batches? I mean, I know I saw from from your, tackle box that some stuff is, custom, but do you make, big batches, or how does that work?

Jess Hoffman [00:25:45]:
So I I usually work in batches of five or six. I will I'll do my heat treat. I'll do, well, I just I just heat treated last week, and I think I did 50 blades. So I'll I'll heat treat a whole bunch of of blades and then just store them in the drawer. So if I need them or a customer wants one, I can I can quick grab one and it's ready to grind and ready to put a handle on? So that's I I kinda keep a a stock of heat treated blades, but, I I generally work in batches of four or five of the same model, and it just, it seems to work seems to work well that way.

Bob DeMarco [00:26:34]:
And, each one, you know, you touch each one of them. So just by that very nature, each one is slightly unique. But, let's take a look at some of your knives. We've been talking a lot about them. Let's let's see what these.

Jess Hoffman [00:26:49]:
So this is one of my more popular models, and this is the Donegal. And Oh, yeah. That is cool. It is what I kinda consider a cross between a Canadian belt knife and, a Ness Muck. It, just the kind of the the swoopy curve of the the back, the the spine gives me that that idea of the Canadian belt knife. It's obviously a taller blade than the the Canadian belt knife, but, it's got the full flat grind, and, this one's shredded carbon fiber with red and black g 10 liners. Knives, usually all come with leather sheaths or Kydex sheaths. Just started using the the pocket clips, the discreet carry pocket clips.

Jess Hoffman [00:27:51]:
I love these.

Bob DeMarco [00:27:51]:
So I love those too. Those are my

Jess Hoffman [00:27:55]:
I I do all the sheaths myself. The only thing I don't do in house is I don't do my own stabilizing for wood. Okay. I can't I can't do it better than K and G does it. So why why bother and and waste Potentially

Bob DeMarco [00:28:11]:
potentially waste a piece of wood. Wait. Wait. Don't put that one back yet. Okay. I want, I wanna make a comment. Sure. Would you something I really like about this and and something you mentioned before is that you work with all sorts of hand materials.

Bob DeMarco [00:28:25]:
Now I look at the blade and the the profile of the of this whole knife, and it looks to me you know, it definitely reminds me of a Nessmook, and I like your, referencing the Canadian belt knife, which are both kind of traditional outdoorsman's knives. But you have this super, you know, for lack of a better term, space age carbon fiber handle on it, and it it goes beautifully. It looks beautiful with that blade, but it's also kind of a contrast, and I really like that.

Jess Hoffman [00:28:54]:
Okay. Thank you. I yeah. It's, it it's it's a classic. I I guess, to me, carbon fiber is it's a space age material, but to me, just the the, the blackness of it is just kind of a classic. Fifty years from now, carbon fiber is still gonna look cool. And I don't I you know, I said before that there's handle materials that I there isn't a handle material I won't use, and I that's a lie, actually. I don't use hybrids.

Jess Hoffman [00:29:28]:
I I don't use, the the combination of burl that's poured with a resin. So, yeah, those I those I don't work with. And I I I I don't wanna work with something that's going to look like the olive refrigerator, you know, that your grandma had in her house. Yeah. You know? In the seventies, when she bought that, that thing was high class. You know?

Bob DeMarco [00:30:02]:
Yeah. Yeah. And

Jess Hoffman [00:30:02]:
now you look at it, go, oh my god. That thing is ugly. I don't want any of my knives in fifty years to somebody for somebody to go, oh my god. What was he thinking when he put those colors together? But

Bob DeMarco [00:30:14]:
So to you, those those the burls that have voids and they're filled in with resin colored resins and stuff, is that just ugly to you, or you you don't like the plasticiness of it?

Jess Hoffman [00:30:26]:
I no. Because I'm not afraid of plastic. I'm you know, I I will use some, I I use some Juma and I use some Kurenite. I I like the Juma better than the Kurenite, but, so I I'm not afraid of that. One of my fears is that's a fairly new process, and I'm I'm really uncomfortable with the the plastic portion that is never going to change shape. It's never gonna shrink. It's never going to expand. And the burl, which even if it's stabilized, they still expand a little bit.

Jess Hoffman [00:31:05]:
They still shrink. I I'm more concerned about the durability of that handle than the, than the aesthetics of it. They look really cool. I'm not gonna disagree that there are some of them that that that contrast between the the bright blue, you know, plastic and and a piece of cherry burl or whatever it is. That that looks cool. But, I'm I'm very leery about the the durability of it, I guess. And until I see one of those in fifty years that looks the same as it did, you know, when it was created, I'm I'm not real comfortable using that handle material, I guess.

Bob DeMarco [00:31:50]:
Yeah. I never thought of that. That makes a lot of sense because you've got something that is, so synthetic and something that is so natural. They're gonna react differently, and you don't know you don't know how how they're going to interact.

Jess Hoffman [00:32:04]:
And there's there's ones out there that have you know, they've they've been out there for ten or twelve years on a knife and and no issues. So I'm my my thinking is maybe completely off base, but once I get something stuck in my head, I I can't get it out. So it's it's there.

Bob DeMarco [00:32:22]:
I hear that. So let's take a look at a couple of other, models. Sure.

Jess Hoffman [00:32:26]:
So that was my Donegal. And a lot of my models, the, I I make them in different sizes. So the Donegal that I I showed you, that's the full size. I also make an 85% and a 70%, which 70% makes a nice little neck knife. This is a, a new model for me just this year, and this is a Winton. And what I was setting out to do with this is I'm I'm not a hunter, so I'm kind of at a disadvantage when people come to me in the fall, and they're looking for a hunting knife for their son or for their dad or whatever. And they're they're looking for that perfect hunting knife, and I always say, well, bring me the one that they have so we can kinda, you know, know what they're what they're used to. And what I'm finding or what I was finding is that they were all bringing me that is that we're a lot bigger than what I make.

Jess Hoffman [00:33:26]:
And what my hunting friends tell me my hunting friends tell me that a smaller knife like this is is plenty big enough for, you know, gutting a deer, and they're happy to use that. But there's a lot of hunters out there that do want a larger knife. So I actually set out to make a a couple of different designs that are more of a full size hunting knife. Still has the ergonomic curve on the back. I can you know, I've got a full a full grip on it, but I can also choke up on it and and do more intricate cutting with it. And it's just it's real comfortable back in the hand, and it gives you a a really nice grip with that. This one is a full flat grind, but, the one the one that I just pulled out of the box, the the box that I showed you earlier. So this is another one, but it's the, it's a hollow grind.

Jess Hoffman [00:34:24]:
It's a 20 inch wheel hollow grind. And I've I've actually found that I kinda like the kinda like the hollow grinded hollow ground version a little better. But I'll I'll make them either way no matter, you know, if somebody wants a a specific one. But and go ahead. I'm sorry.

Bob DeMarco [00:34:44]:
Is it that you like about the hollow grind better?

Jess Hoffman [00:34:50]:
I I like the way that when you when you move it in the light, it reflects light differently. And my hollow grinds, I've got a I've got a 20 inch wheel, which is, fairly uncommon. There's only two two grinder companies in the world that make a 20 inch wheel. So back to back to this one, you can it just kinda reflects the light differently when you when you move it, but it almost looks like a flat grind just because it's such a shallow hollow grind. And I I guess I like that. It's just kind of an aesthetics thing for me. They're they're probably gonna perform about the same.

Bob DeMarco [00:35:37]:
Do you think that, you know, in cross section with that with that those concave surfaces coming together, do you think that it gives you more sharpening life as you as you say you're using that knife for years and years and you sharpen it over and over as you go up? It seems like you might have more, real estate behind the edge that remains thin if it's a hollow grind.

Jess Hoffman [00:36:05]:
Yes. I I I know what you're saying, and I I think that does make sense. But I if if you're to me, if you're sharpening enough that you're changing the the the thickness behind the edge. Either your your knife has a really bad heat treat and you're or you're one of the people that has taken it to a bench grinder to, you know, try to sharpen it. Yeah. Yeah. For me, sharpening is you're you're not taking you shouldn't be taking much much material off. But I I guess after how many years, I guess we'll see how mine have how mine have held up with with sharpening over the years.

Jess Hoffman [00:36:56]:
I I always tell all my customers I I sharpen my knives for a lifetime. You know, you just gotta get it back to me, and I'll I'll put a new edge on it and get it and send it back to you. So that's that's always an option.

Bob DeMarco [00:37:11]:
Well, how do you come up with new models? I know you have a couple of, newish models. I think the Phantom is new, isn't it?

Jess Hoffman [00:37:19]:
Yep. That was that was new last year, or late twenty three, I think, I I came out with the Phantom. And, yeah. So I I've got a let me grab one of my my pattern in a quick one.

Bob DeMarco [00:37:39]:
Sure. Oh, I always like, I always like the the reveal of the shop behind you. It looks cool.

Jess Hoffman [00:37:45]:
Okay. So these are some of the templates that I that I use. But what I what I started with on this was this arc right here, which gives me my, it gives me my my three finger grip. And this model is the Olmi, and it's got a kind of a bulbous runt. And then I came up with the cork, which is the exact same knife. It's just got a a more of a leaf blade to it. Then I have the temporary, which is, again, the exact same knife, but it's a a wharncliffe. And then finally, the the Phantom, which is Oh, that's cool.

Jess Hoffman [00:38:36]:
The same knife, but it's got the hawk mill blade to it. So, yeah, all four of these knives are essentially the the same with just a different edge. So when I come up with a new design, a lot of times I'll, I always I always try to have that that drop back so that it it fits nicely in your hand, doesn't poke into your the the palm of your hand, and you've got a good a good grip and a lot of control over that blade. So that's kinda how it is. Everything is is, I I shouldn't say everything. There there's been times where, I I've just taken a bar of steel and taken it to the grinder and just started grinding and and shaping and kinda playing with stuff that way. And, I'm I'm trying to think of what knife I I made. Just one of my models I made completely accidental because I was I was grinding something else, and it was like, oh, that's kinda cool.

Jess Hoffman [00:39:40]:
And I just went around with it a little bit and came up with something totally different. So

Bob DeMarco [00:39:46]:
It's like you're sketching with steel.

Jess Hoffman [00:39:48]:
Yeah. Kind of. But mostly what I do is I I sketch on paper and, and kinda kinda do it that way. And I'll make a I'll make a couple of different sketches, and I'll make a couple of different templates just to, just to feel them and and see how they how they work and how they, how they feel.

Bob DeMarco [00:40:12]:
Do do you have, I'm sorry. I forgot the name of the original, that has the real deep belly. I know I saw those on kniveship free.

Advertisement Announcer [00:40:22]:
Yeah. The only?

Bob DeMarco [00:40:24]:
The only. Yeah. Do you have a a finished copy of that, one of those?

Jess Hoffman [00:40:28]:
No. Sold them all, I don't know if I do or not. Let me, let me take a look here.

Bob DeMarco [00:40:35]:
That is always a good problem to have. You know? Oftentimes, I'll ask people, here if they have, you know, x, y, or z knife, and they're like, no. I make it, and I sell it as fast as I can. You don't walk around with your paycheck in your pocket, do you? And

Jess Hoffman [00:40:49]:
No. I I don't have one. I've I've got one in my office, but, yeah, I don't have one out here in the shop.

Bob DeMarco [00:40:58]:
That knife, when first when I was first, discovering your work, that one really stood out to me. I'm a I'm a big fan of that sort of blade shape. It's sort of a, a, you know, a real big belly, and I like the overall, arc to the back of the handle. And, you know, I look at something like this and I've, I've, I've never held one or cut with one, but a, I can tell it's gonna feel good in the hand, and b, I just know it's gonna be an incredible cutter because you have, this downward angle from the handle to the blade. And, I mentioned that that a lot on this show and in my videos. Just I love the ang when you have a blade that angles down from the from the handle. You know, a Kukri is a very extreme version of that. Sure.

Bob DeMarco [00:41:49]:
Or with these Filipino swords behind me have that extreme, angle thing. But, to me, it really just, means it's gonna be a very, very efficient cutter. Do you have any preference, yourself personally? Because you took that knife, you reduced it, and then you flattened it for the wharncliffe, and then you made it concave, for the or convex for the no. Concave for the, hawkbill. So you've got four different blades in that. Do you have a a kind of blade that you prefer?

Jess Hoffman [00:42:22]:
The the the knives that I carry are mistakes. So the the ones that I screw up, I those are the ones that I I generally carry. I I did I did carry an Oni for a while. I loved it. And, and realized after about a week that I had screwed up the heat treat and it wouldn't hold an edge. And, actually found out I had screwed up about six blades out of the batch, which none of them had left the shop yet. So I'm yeah. I was I was happy about that.

Jess Hoffman [00:42:58]:
But, yeah, it's, they're they're all they all got junked, which

Bob DeMarco [00:43:03]:
Oh, I was gonna ask you. Is is there any way to fix it?

Jess Hoffman [00:43:07]:
No. No. Not really. I could I could cut the handles off and and reheat treat it, and it's not work. It it's just you're you're better off starting with a new hunk of steel. And, the one turned out really nice. It was a, it was one of my one of my Clares. And, I I actually I did send that one off to have photographed, professionally photographed, even though it's not a not a good knife.

Jess Hoffman [00:43:43]:
It looked really nice. So so, yeah, if anybody asks if if that one ever shows up in a magazine and somebody wants to know if it's available, no. It's not available. I still have it, but, no, it's not available. So

Bob DeMarco [00:43:56]:
Well, so tell me about your business a little bit and how you I know that this started as a hobby and now it's much more than that. How do you approach it, from a business standpoint? Like, what's your model?

Jess Hoffman [00:44:11]:
This is my hobby. I don't have a boat. I don't have a camper. I sold my motorcycle. This is this is what I do for fun. It's what I enjoy. So, if I can if I can make a little bit of money, I'm looking to retire from my my real job in about, three and a half, four years. And if I can supplement my retirement with with making knives and, hopefully, go to more shows.

Jess Hoffman [00:44:39]:
I I'm kinda pushing myself on the number of shows that I'm doing next year, but, I I think it's I think it's good and, getting me ready for for when I do retire. So, I do I'm trying to think here. Right now, I am at well, let me go into my spreadsheet here real quick. I hope I didn't just screw something up.

Bob DeMarco [00:45:11]:
No. Still there.

Jess Hoffman [00:45:14]:
So I I just put number 75 for the year in my books. I I keep a all my knives are serial numbered, but there's no serial number on the knife. I I serial number from my record, and if if the knife ever comes back, it's it's there's enough information in my records that I know which serial number it is and and who originally bought it and and all of that. So but I last year, I think I did a 40 knives, and I'll I'll definitely be on, pace for doing about that, this year also.

Bob DeMarco [00:45:58]:
So as a as a man with another job Mhmm. And and this is this has always been my, you know, I've always had a job and I've always been creative and have my my creative outlets. And, you know, there's always this this nagging feeling, like and this nagging feeling, like, oh, man. You know, what it would really take to be at the top of my creative game with my outside of work pursuit would be to, like and I can't do this. I'm a family man, but would be, like, to leave my job completely and immerse myself, you know, a %, and then I would just, like, rise out of the ashes as this amazing Do you ever have that that that tension between your your hobby, which you, you know, obviously, you've gotten really good at, but but with creative things, we always want more. We always wanna get better. Is there a tension between that and what you have to do? No. Not so much.

Bob DeMarco [00:47:00]:
Really? I'm so many of the

Jess Hoffman [00:47:04]:
the makers that I talk to nowadays, they are their goal is to become a full time knife maker. And my goal is to not become a full time knife maker. I'm I'm just the opposite. I I don't wanna depend on my hobby to to put food on the table and pay the mortgage and the car bill and and all of that. I want it to to continue to be a hobby. So when I retire, it'll supplement my my income. It'll be you know, I'll be able to do my hobby and and make a little extra money at it. So, as as far as in or enhancing, I guess, I just took, I I went to my local tech college this year and took some machining a machining course, just to learn how to use mills and lathes and and all of that stuff.

Jess Hoffman [00:48:03]:
I I had a general idea of it, but I never had any formal training in it. It's kinda weird because I'm about fifteen years older than the instructor. You know, but and yeah. There's, you know, classes full of 19 year old kids that show up late for class and are hungover and all of that. It's like, I'm I'm the old guy, but that's okay. So I'm I'm learning there, and I one of my one of my first mentors was, Peter Martin. Peter Martin's a Peter Martin can make anything when it when it comes to knives, but he mostly makes folders. And he's been after me to make folders for, I don't know how long, and it just was something that didn't didn't intrigue me, I guess.

Jess Hoffman [00:48:54]:
I I've always carried a fixed blade. Even before I started making knives, I I always carried fixed blades. So that's what that's kinda what I kinda what I liked. But, after blade show, which right now I'm in full blade show rush trying to get ready, I am gonna go visit my friend Ken Coats, and he's gonna walk me through making a slip joint. So Oh, cool. I I like slip joints. I think they're fun. And, Ken Ken Coates is he's, he's one of the better ones in the in the country making them.

Jess Hoffman [00:49:33]:
So if I've got him close and he's willing to teach me, I'd be a fool not to take those lessons. So I'm hoping to enhance that. Also consider taking some jewelry classes at the tech school too. I I have no idea how I would incorporate that, but I I think that there are certain skills that, skills or or sometimes tools. Sometimes you find out that another industry has a tool and you're like, damn it. That does what? Please. I've been doing that by hand. It's like, cool.

Jess Hoffman [00:50:10]:
There's a tool for that. So, yeah, sometimes it pays to to learn, you know, that and and learn new new skills and new trades.

Bob DeMarco [00:50:20]:
Oh, yeah. Open your eyes to so much that way. So this is gonna be, you're going to Blade Show. Is this your first time at Blade Show? Or have you not in the past?

Jess Hoffman [00:50:32]:
I think 02/2015 was my first year going, with my friend Peter, and I think I got my first table in 02/2018. Oh, wow. Okay. I, you know, everybody missed 2020, of course, but I I've been there. I've been there every year. I've been at, Table 2 Double D for the last this will be my fourth year at 2 Double D.

Bob DeMarco [00:50:58]:
I I'm wondering, if if we met or if I I know I must have seen your blades because I, I just go back and forth, back and forth at blade show. I look at everything.

Jess Hoffman [00:51:08]:
Okay.

Bob DeMarco [00:51:09]:
So I'm wondering if Matthew Yeah.

Jess Hoffman [00:51:11]:
I'm I'm right up front when you you walk in the door and you go to the left. And, I was always you you know, Sharky? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I was always, tablemates with him. He was always right behind me.

Bob DeMarco [00:51:25]:
Oh, cool.

Jess Hoffman [00:51:26]:
With his bright purple jacket, and, I guess I'm getting a new new table neighbor this year. But

Bob DeMarco [00:51:35]:
so what what would you recommend? I mean, you've been so you're kind of a veteran blade show taking your knives there. What advice do you have for makers who are maybe going there for the first time?

Jess Hoffman [00:51:50]:
Comfortable shoes, and and I guess it's it's really good to have somebody that can watch your table for you because otherwise, you're gonna miss Blade Show. And Yeah. It's really cool to to, you know, get to, get to see everybody that comes walking by your table, but you miss a lot of people not if you're not able to go out and walk around a little bit too. So, have somebody that you trust, you know, whether it be a spouse or a friend or whatever that can can watch your table for a little while so that you can go out and and see stuff. So that's, there's there's I've been in other industries, and there's nothing quite like blade show as far as, as far as trade shows go?

Bob DeMarco [00:52:45]:
I love it. I mean, for me, it's I feel I feel every time I leave Blade Show, which, you know, this will be my fifth year, I feel like, why am I not doing this full time? Why am I not in the like, these are my people. I love, just like and and, you know, people like to talk about diversity these days. And you go to play to to Blade Show, that's true diversity there. All sorts of different people from all walks of life with that one thing in common, their love of knives, and it's such a good good feeling or it's as the kids say, such a great vibe. You know? Everyone, like knife makers, y'all might be a very solitary, pursuit, but when you get to blade show, you have to be you have to be ready to press the flesh and just kind of draw people into your table. You know? Yeah. Invite people to pick stuff up.

Jess Hoffman [00:53:43]:
Yeah. And I'm, I'm I'm a I'm a good knife maker. I'm a horrible salesman, and that is that is one of my one of my downfalls. You know, it it it seems like there's times that somebody will come by and they'll pick up a knife and look at it, and they'll go, okay. I'll take that. And I go, really? I'm like, shot. I'm like, wow. Cool.

Jess Hoffman [00:54:08]:
You know, and I've I've sold hundreds and hundreds of knives, but, it's still it's still a it's it's a rush. And and there's so many times that you get to meet, you know, if you're selling knives online and you're shipping them to people and stuff, you never you never get to meet them. And and actually talk to them and the the one thing is is that they never look like what you were imagining, you know, they were gonna look like. But, yeah. It's it's really cool to just be able to to put a face with with some of the customers. And, yeah, there's just there's so much going on at Blade Show. It's it's hard to hard to see everybody, I guess.

Bob DeMarco [00:54:54]:
Well, I wanna ask you one more question before we wrap, but I I would like to I would like to make a comment on on your salesman comment. Like, if you have beautiful knives and you're just a nice dude, you don't need to be like a sales guy or one doesn't need to be a sales guy. They could just meet you and chat with you. Oh my gosh, I like this guy and I love his knives and, because everyone there is ready to buy knives. That's that's Yeah. That's the beauty of of that. You in a way, it's just, you know, you just have to bring your personality. And, obviously, you do.

Bob DeMarco [00:55:28]:
You've you're an old hat at this. But, I always feel I always feel kinda badly for for the the the guys who are kinda sitting there quietly. And, you know, I just I just wanna say get up, like, shake some hands and, you know, tell people to pick up your knives and and, you might might be you know, might have more fun. But I also understand some people just are mortified by crowds. So

Jess Hoffman [00:55:54]:
Yeah. Well, one of my one of my, one of my drawbacks is I'm getting old and losing my hearing. It's not quite what it used to be, but I'm too stubborn to buy hearing aids. So for a lot of time a lot of times, I sometimes have a hard time hearing people. It, it works for me. I'm kind of on the end of the the row so I can get out and get on the other side of the table Yeah. And and talk with people. Something that I did last year now it the whole thing is that only knife makers can view this secret.

Jess Hoffman [00:56:36]:
I don't want anybody that buys knives to know what I'm gonna tell them right now. But, what I what I started doing last year was every time somebody buys a knife, I get a picture with that person. Oh, cool. Holding the knife. And as soon as I get that picture of that person and they walk away, I put what their name was and what they bought and save that to the photo. So now this this year, on my way down to Atlanta, I'm gonna be going through those photos so that I I can I can when that person walks by, I'm gonna know their name, and I'm gonna know what they bought from me last year? And to them, it's a, oh my god. This guy remembered me. To me, it's just it's a way for me to try to connect better with the customer, I guess.

Bob DeMarco [00:57:28]:
That's a really cool idea. I I like that. I like that. I mean, it means something because people have have, decided that their hard earned money, they would rather have your hard made knife than their hard earned money, and that means something to both of you. And and that's that's cool for you to learn their name. I think that's Yeah.

Jess Hoffman [00:57:49]:
The the people that amaze me are the ones that are there on, like, Monday waiting outside. And, you know, the last couple of years, the our our hotel room has overlooked the line, and it's just, you know, 09:00 at night when I'm ready to go to bed, I'm looking out the window, and it's like, oh my god. I can't believe all these people are, you know, here just to see me. You know? Not Yeah. But, yeah, the the enthusiasm of the the customers is is incredible. That's it's it's really unbelievable, and I guess I don't I I love knives, but I don't get that enthused about them that I I have to be there, you know, waiting four days for the doors to open.

Bob DeMarco [00:58:35]:
Alright. Let me ask you one last question and and, before I let you go, and that is, to to someone who thinks they wanna make knives, a newbie, so to speak, what kind of advice would you give them?

Jess Hoffman [00:58:48]:
I I'm gonna give them the advice of use new materials. Don't try to repurpose. Find find a local knife maker. There are there are knife makers all over the place, and there are guilds all over the place. I'm one of the founding members of the Midwest Knife Maker's Guild, which is just a it's a teaching guild. So they've got different classes and different events throughout the year. You're you're never gonna learn as much watching YouTube videos as you are working hands on side by side with somebody and and learning from them. So that's gonna be my my, my main advice, I guess.

Bob DeMarco [00:59:39]:
So cultivate mentorship, basically.

Jess Hoffman [00:59:41]:
Yeah. And knife makers are are an odd breed in that with the exception of a couple people, there there really are no secrets in this industry. People are are very free about sharing knowledge and how they do things and, you know, if if I were to call up, you know, somebody and and wanna know how they do something on a on a slip joint or something, They're they're gonna they're gonna take the time usually to talk you through it or, send you pictures of how they do it or whatever. So Yeah. It's there's there's no other no other hobby that I know of that that is as open as knife sprayer

Bob DeMarco [01:00:24]:
king. That's great. And that's a great note to end on. Jess Hoffman of Jay Hoffman Knives. Thank you so much for your time.

Jess Hoffman [01:00:31]:
Having me. I appreciate it.

Bob DeMarco [01:00:32]:
My pleasure, sir. Take care. Thanks.

Advertisement Announcer [01:00:35]:
Adventure delivered. Your monthly subscription for handpicked outdoor, survival, EDC, and other cool gear from our expert team of outdoor professionals. The knifejunkie.com/battlebox.

Bob DeMarco [01:00:48]:
There he goes, ladies and gentlemen. Jess Hoffman of J Hoffman Knives. I look forward to meeting Jess, in just a couple of weeks here, and I feel like maybe, maybe I have met him, along the way, on the last table, to the left. But, I look forward to meeting him and getting some of his knives in hand. Be sure to join us for the Thursday night knives. Coming up soon, we're gonna be giving away a new knife for, for the gentleman junkies. And, well, it's always just a pleasure meeting you guys there. But if you do see me at Blade Show and you recognize me, come up and introduce yourself.

Bob DeMarco [01:01:27]:
I would love to meet you in person. Alright. For Jim working his magic behind the switcher, I'm Bob DeMarco saying until next time. Don't take dull for an answer.

Announcer [01:01:35]:
Thanks for listening to the ninth Junky podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please rate and review at reviewthepodcast.com. For show notes for today's episode, additional resources, and to listen to past episodes, visit our website, theknifejunkie.com. You can also watch our latest videos on YouTube at theknifejunkie.com/youtube. Check out some great knife photos on theknifejunkie.com/Instagram, and join our Facebook group at theknifejunkie.com/Facebook. And if you have a question or comment, email them to Bob@theknifejunkie.com, or call our twenty four seven listener line at (724) 466-4487. And you may hear your comment or question answered on an upcoming episode of the Knife Junkie podcast.