The Knife Junkie Podcast is the place for knife newbies and knife junkies to learn about knives and knife collecting. Twice per week Bob DeMarco talks knives. Email Bob at theknifejunkie@gmail.com; visit https://theknifejunkie.com.
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Announcer [00:00:03]:
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast, your weekly dose of knife news and information about knives and knife collecting. Here's your host, Bob the knife junkie DeMarco.

Bob DeMarco [00:00:16]:
Welcome to the knife junkie podcast. I'm your host, Bob DeMarco. On this edition of the show, I'm speaking with Michael Grosso of Armis knife and tool. I first heard of Michael's knives from my friend and knife maven, Dave of OG Blade Review. He got an Armas VSK one and knowing my taste in knives informed me that I must get one. Even went so far as to connect me with Michael himself. Well, Dave was right, and indeed Michael is at the helm of a great new American knife company creating useful and robust EDC fixed blades, universal sheaths, and other interesting implement. He's a career firefighter turned knifemaker whose knives and tools have a notably tactical bent.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:01]:
Easy on the eyes, great in hand, and sharp as hell, Armas knife and tools knives are a new and welcome addition in my everyday carry. We'll meet Michael and find out what it's like to go from public servant to small business owner. But first, be sure to like, comment, subscribe, hit the notification bell, and share the show with a friend. That's one of the best ways you can help the show. Another way is to go to Patreon and support us there. Quickest way to do that is to head over to the knifejunkie.com/patreon. Again, that's the knifejunkie.com/patreon.

Announcer [00:01:35]:
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Announcer [00:02:02]:
Try it free for fourteen days at the knifejunkie.com/launch. That's the knifejunkie.com/launch. There he is. I didn't time that. I didn't play that at all.

Bob DeMarco [00:02:13]:
Welcome to the show, sir. Good to see you.

Michael Grasso [00:02:15]:
Yeah. Good to see you too. Thanks for that intro. That was, that that was that was cool. Nice to

Bob DeMarco [00:02:19]:
meet you. Well, hey, man. Well well earned. I'm holding your VSK one in hand right now. And, as I was telling you before we started rolling, I really, really have taken to this knife. I I love it, and it felt great in hand and in pocket immediately. So congratulations on, the the rolling out of this knife.

Michael Grasso [00:02:41]:
Thank you. Appreciate that.

Bob DeMarco [00:02:43]:
Well, I know it's not brand new. When when did this knife come out?

Michael Grasso [00:02:47]:
Oh, man. It, maybe two years ago is when I first designed it. My brain's a little foggy at the moment, but probably two years. We've been making for a while. It wasn't our original, like, flagship knife, our Karim bite was our EK. But the VSK one has quickly become our most popular knife. Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:03:09]:
No. Why do you think that is?

Michael Grasso [00:03:11]:
I don't know. I think that the price point is right. You know? Specifically, I we get a lot of comments about that. But, I mean, speaking for myself and I guess the customer feedback is just the way it fits your hand is is it almost feels like it was made for your hand. You know? And I did spend a lot of time, trying to come up with that design, and it was like I was putting together pieces of puzzle, and, like, once, like, I had everything right, it just it just, like, felt perfect. And so I've not changed it. I've not modified it at all. I've done some shorter blade lengths for some people, but, just the ergonomics seem to work out really, really well both in the forward and reverse grip.

Bob DeMarco [00:03:48]:
Yeah. I'd, my initial thought is, some people love the ring, some people are are don't like the ring.

Michael Grasso [00:03:56]:
Right.

Bob DeMarco [00:03:57]:
Or not just the ring on your knives, but on any knife. Mhmm. And, but this will fit and work with anyone's carry style, and I would imagine it has something to do with that. This handle is crazy. I know I know that the, karambit has a very similar blade Mhmm. But this handle and, we're I guess we're jumping right into this knife. It's fine. Let's go.

Bob DeMarco [00:04:19]:
I have I am very hot and cold with, double finger partitions. Uh-huh. I usually like a a singular, finger choil and then, you know, the rest of the fingers accommodate it elsewhere. But this knife and a few others in my collection, it just feels so perfect, the way it is. So I

Announcer [00:04:40]:
I bet that the handle on this knife has a lot

Bob DeMarco [00:04:43]:
to do with that. So what was it like designing this knife? What were your your design goals for this?

Michael Grasso [00:04:49]:
So I'm a very practical guy, and there's a lot of flashy stuff out there. And I'm not particularly a big ring guy, like karambit guy, but that one for me, it was kinda fun to design, and I felt like it worked. But, I'm I'm I'm very practical. A lot of that comes from just my background, especially in my job, my former career as a fireman, keeping things really simple. And so I always kinda go back to, like, what what's the foundation of of a tool? Whatever it is, it doesn't matter. But specifically with knife, like, what's the purpose? Is this purpose, outdoor recreational use? Is the purpose self defense? And so I would just kinda funnel down and be like, okay. I want a knife that is a really great self defense tool that makes sense and is practical. Because if you it's it's one thing to design a knife that looks really tactical, but then if you go to use that knife, you know, on a training dummy or, you know, one of those Bob mannequins, I think we all have one of those with lots of slices in them.

Michael Grasso [00:05:48]:
Or once you start using it, you really figure out what the friction points are and, like, what the hot spots are and, like, what's gonna hurt your hand. Is the knife does the knife wanna fall out of your hand? Does it wanna drive itself deeper in your grip? And so all those things that were kinda on my mind. Again, I have a, a firefighting background, but the military, tactical has always been, like, a passion of mine. And, I've done lots of different trainings and whatnot, and so my focus has always kind of been more towards the self defense aspect of things. And so that's kind of the that was the true foundation of designing that knife.

Bob DeMarco [00:06:21]:
Yeah. I mean, you can tell it. I mean to me this knife has, with its blade style, first of all it's a spear point and you've got a, point that comes right down the center of the handle. Yeah. So, it's great in either either grip.

Michael Grasso [00:06:35]:
Yep.

Bob DeMarco [00:06:36]:
Or or I should say any grip.

Michael Grasso [00:06:38]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:06:38]:
You always kinda know where that point is, but it's also a very practical blade and and, it's, you know, I would imagine it's good for a lot. In the short period of time I've had this, I I haven't gotten in any fights, but I've used it for a lot of, regular sort of cutting tasks, and it's great for that.

Michael Grasso [00:06:57]:
That's great. It's funny you mentioned not getting any fights. That's amazing. I don't I actually don't wanna hear that at all, but I did have a customer reach out to me today as a police officer, and that the subject line in the email was first kill. And I was like, oh, no. Like, this could go either way. I don't know what's gonna happen. But he sent me a picture, and it was, like, a kilo of fentanyl that he had seized and he used his knife.

Michael Grasso [00:07:18]:
He was actually crammed it to cut open the package. And so he I'll send you the picture. I should've sent it to you, but it's like, you're spettenol on the tip of the blade and it's laying on the so that that was kinda neat, but, yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:07:29]:
Your mind went elsewhere first. Yeah. Well, let I I wanna get into some of your background before we talk more about about this knife and and others. You're a former firefighter. You were a career firefighter. What what was that like? How did knives fit into it, and then how did you become a knife maker?

Michael Grasso [00:07:50]:
Great question. Yeah. So I was a career fireman for just under fourteen years. I did some volunteer work before that, in my hometown. But, you know, I I used knives a lot throughout my career. The department I worked for in Southern Connecticut, we had we covered a large strip of, I 95, and so we were constantly up there for car accidents. We dealt with a lot of car accidents on our normal roads, but so that means cutting seat belts, cutting airbags, and so I was constantly using knives. I was really big into Emerson.

Michael Grasso [00:08:20]:
I still love Emerson knives, and so I was always buying, Emerson knives with my, my, uniform allowance. And so, I got to use a lot of knives that way. So in a very practical sense, you know, never in a self defense scenario, but but in a practical sense, I use them a lot throughout my career.

Bob DeMarco [00:08:36]:
So what led to your leaving the the the, fire service and becoming a knifemaker?

Michael Grasso [00:08:43]:
So I, in 2019, got injured at work, and, you know, a lot of times you think that especially for firemen or first responders, and you think, oh, it must have been this catastrophic thing. Well, for me, it wasn't, and it's kind of the story for for a lot of first responders is it's such a physically tough job. Mhmm. You know, cops with their duty belts and having to chase people and, you know, there's a lot of injuries that come from that. And then for firemen a lot, it's neck, shoulder, and knee issues because you're carrying so much weight. We wear heavy gear, and then we put on a backpack or an air pack, helmet, mask. We're crawling around in awkward positions. We're, you know, using hoses that are very heavy and ladders and really putting our bodies in awkward positions.

Michael Grasso [00:09:24]:
And so things break down, things fail. And typically, it's a joint injury like a shoulder or knee. But for me, it was my neck. And, and I always had neck issues throughout my career. A lot of guys do. And till one day, I was I was an officer towards the end of my career. I was a lieutenant, and I was helping train one of our our probation of probationary firefighters. And I remember just kinda pulling hose off and twisting and feeling something kinda different, not painful but different, in my neck.

Michael Grasso [00:09:47]:
My my left arm felt a little funny, but, like, just kinda weird. And so I kinda just sucked it up and dealt with it for a while. Within two weeks, I started getting intense pain in my left arm. So bad that I didn't sleep for about a week before I finally went to the hospital. They did all sorts of workups, and they found that I had, severe severe arthritis, stenosis, and, bulging disc at my c six c seven vertebrae, which is right at your shoulder line. And so that was crushing the nerve going down my left arm. And, basically, it got to a point where it just couldn't the dam couldn't hold back the water anymore. And so, I was a lot bigger guy.

Michael Grasso [00:10:20]:
I was about two hundred pounds at the time. I'm about one seventy five now. And my arm went from like this to nothing in about a week, and that's it freaked me out because I didn't know what was going on. Wow. And so finally, after all the diagnosis is that, you know, the testing, they said, hey. This is what you got what you got going on. Been pinching that nerve. If we don't do surgery, you're probably gonna have a paralyzed arm within a

Bob DeMarco [00:10:39]:
week or so.

Michael Grasso [00:10:40]:
Of course. Yeah. It was it was very or or if you hadn't come in sooner, you you might have been paralyzed forever and but, you know, with that arm. So, anyway, I had surgery, a couple months after after they did some other therapies to try. And then, I recovered. It was right at the start of COVID in 2020, and so I used that whole first half of the year of of COVID to recover and recuperate, and I felt amazing. I was home. I was sleeping well.

Michael Grasso [00:11:03]:
I was eating well. I had rehab by myself at home and gotten really strong, probably some of the best shape I've gotten, you know, in my life and throughout my career. But then once I went back to work, I mean, about July, August, just got back in the grind of things. My body started to break down again, and the permanent nerve damage that I have in this arm, my arm would just turn off on me. So if I was doing push ups or dumbbells, you get to the point where you feel like you can do a couple more, my arm would just shut off. And I dropped stuff on my face, and so it scared me. Because, you know, I thought, you know, man, if I'm in a situation where I need to help myself or help, you know, one of my brothers or sisters or a fireman or a person, you know, in the public, I'm not gonna be able to do that. And so it was a really difficult decision, but I just said, hey.

Michael Grasso [00:11:44]:
I'm gonna try to put in for a medical retirement. So that was in '20, '21 when we did that. Jeez.

Bob DeMarco [00:11:51]:
Yeah. I've I've, known a number of firefighters and police officers, but mostly firefighters, and I know there's a lot of repetitive stress, just from getting in and getting out of the truck, and having those tanks on and all of that, and the thought of having your arm fail on you. That's, that, that's terrifying. Nerve damage is, is awful. I I I mean, it's all awful, but, man, well, I'm glad you were able to recuperate and get yourself better. Yeah. How did the knives work into it? I know you were carrying Emersons and doing other, you know, using other knives for your job so you had some affinity towards them. But, I mean, making that jump to knife maker, that's a big deal.

Bob DeMarco [00:12:35]:
How did that happen?

Michael Grasso [00:12:36]:
Yeah. It's a super interesting transition, but I've always loved knives. You know, I've always had this affinity for knives my entire life. I always collected them. I was trying to find, like, one of the first folders I ever got, but I I can't find it. I don't know where it is. So I always always love knives. Always love using them.

Michael Grasso [00:12:50]:
And then, I, started training with, Bill Rapier from AMTAC, shooting and sports. Right? AMTAC blades. Phenomenal guy. Love Bill. I've done a lot of training with him over the years, and he's one of the guys that actually inspired me to to to get into this, just having him as a friend. But, it was taking his, like, integrative combatives course back in '20 I don't know. Late twenty teens. I I I don't I don't remember when.

Michael Grasso [00:13:16]:
And then, I have a carpentry background. So I was homeschooled, so that gave me the ability to, start an apprenticeship really young. I was about 12 years old, so I started a carpentry apprentice with an uncle and basically worked almost full time from the time I was 12 until I was 21 when I got hired as a career fireman. And so I had I had skills and I had knowledge and I knew how to work with wood and other materials and make things. You know, we'd make fine cabinetry and we'd build houses and trim them and frame them. So I already had a really good base of of of experience with tools. And then one day in 2019, right before I was injured actually, I remember thinking, like, holding a knife and being like, I can make this. Like, I can make this.

Michael Grasso [00:13:56]:
And my wife was like, yeah.

Announcer [00:13:57]:
I know you can make one of these. Come on.

Michael Grasso [00:13:59]:
And so I did the, you know, the old YouTube University, which is some incredible incredible blessing for so many people, to be able to just pick up new skills. So I watched a ton of videos, and then I, picked up some basic equipment, some files, made my own little file jig, and made my own little furnace with, some some some fire, fireplace bricks, you know, and and, and, a blowtorch. And I made my first knife, and I actually have it if you wanna see it.

Bob DeMarco [00:14:25]:
Oh, yeah. Let's see it.

Michael Grasso [00:14:26]:
Yeah. So this was the very first knife that I made.

Bob DeMarco [00:14:28]:
Oh my god. That is beautiful.

Michael Grasso [00:14:30]:
Yeah. It's the the very, very, very first knife. It's, I think it's 80 c r v two, is is the steel on this and some g 10 handles this in line.

Bob DeMarco [00:14:39]:
That up a little higher.

Michael Grasso [00:14:40]:
There we go.

Bob DeMarco [00:14:41]:
There we go.

Michael Grasso [00:14:42]:
Yep. So it's got some green ODG 10, some pins in there that are kinda burned. But, yeah, this was the first knife that I made, and I brought it to work. And, I remember showing the guys at work and they were like, that's really cool. Could you make me one? And I was like, yeah. Sure. And so I I ended up selling a couple knives to some different guys, and that, like, really got me excited. And then my wife was just she was amazing.

Michael Grasso [00:15:08]:
She was like, you know, you can you can do this. Like, you can definitely, like, make this, look at a hobby and turn into something, but she really encouraged me to do it. And so I started pursuing it in 2019, right before I got injured. So

Bob DeMarco [00:15:20]:
So, that first knife that you were just showing, if you're just listening to this show it's a really nice looking drop point, with a green handle, but I gotta say, that grind looks really excellent, especially for a file jig, that takes some serious time. And then to get even grinds with one of those, you know, I've noodled around with them. It's not easy, but you did an awesome job.

Michael Grasso [00:15:48]:
Yeah. I think I cleaned it up with my, I had a, like, a Harbor Freight two by 42 little grinder or something. I don't remember the make and the model, but I think I ended up getting, like, cleaning it up. But, yeah, I filed the bevels and everything by hand, cut it out with a hacksaw, like, did it, like and then I was like, I can't do this anymore. If I'm gonna do this, like, there's no way I continue to do this, and then so that obviously, I started buying some better tools, but,

Bob DeMarco [00:16:12]:
you know. So, how how many knives would you say you made in that first, sort of,

Michael Grasso [00:16:19]:
stage when you're making them for your friends right after that first knife, before you started upgrading your tools? Probably 15 or 20, maybe. Not not very many. It was only a few. And then but then what happened was I got injured and then I wanted to be careful, like, while I was out, because of, you know, just I I don't wanna want things to look wrong in the wrong lens, like, you know, because you're out injured from work and you're doing this other thing. So I kinda had to take a break for a while, in between in between there and my retirement.

Bob DeMarco [00:16:52]:
Okay. So so you start making knives, your wife encourages you, which is a blessing. Yeah. It could go either way. You know, someone could say, oh, you know, what are you gonna do for a living, you know, we can't do this, but I gotta say, well, you I've I've had a lot of guests on the show who were homeschooled. I've had a number of guests who were former firefighters, and almost all of them have the loving support of

Announcer [00:17:18]:
a wife if they have a wife. But

Bob DeMarco [00:17:20]:
And, I I don't know, I think it's interesting you start seeing patterns. But, so you start working on knives, you start making them kind of in earnest, what was the first how did you take the first, plunge into a real shop?

Michael Grasso [00:17:37]:
So I have a small shop in our hometown where we live in Northwestern Connecticut. I'm standing in it right now. As you can see, it's very small. It's about 14 by 20 or so, and I have some additional space outside of it. But, yeah, I started on my deck, and then I kinda just took over this one space that we had and, just literally just piece by piece throughout the years just added this and added that. And it was been a it's a slow process, but I'm proud of where we are now. There's other things we are where we have to move towards because we're growing so much, but, yeah, this is this is our humble little shop here. Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:18:09]:
Well let's talk about how you're growing. Now we talked about the the VSK one, we we talked about the knife Mhmm. And how excellent it is. By the way this this is, is this a d no this is AEBL, right?

Michael Grasso [00:18:22]:
Yes sir, yep.

Bob DeMarco [00:18:23]:
Okay. Yep. Well, for what what do you like about AEBL, and and how did you choose that steel?

Michael Grasso [00:18:30]:
So the simplest answer is that, it's easy to heat treat, and I don't have to quench it in oil. And so that was really exciting for me because the last thing I wanted to do was burn down my small shop. I just had that fear of, like, man, I just don't I guess being a fireman, you know, I I've seen the way things can go bad. And so, it was really came down to, okay. I just want a tough feel because I wanna make these hard use, knives. But I don't wanna do say anything too exotic because my goal was to, really get to a price point where, like, the average guy can can afford the knife. You know? Because there there's some amazing knives out there, but if you're not I mean, you're dropping a lot of money, and I have, and there's nothing wrong with that. Mhmm.

Michael Grasso [00:19:12]:
But I love knives so much that I wanted to try to get them to a

Announcer [00:19:15]:
point where I could put them in more people's hand.

Michael Grasso [00:19:17]:
And so that choice of AEBL being a great steel but not like super expensive is one one of one of the big reasons.

Bob DeMarco [00:19:25]:
AEBL is a great steel and, it's got like a lot of the things we want out of a out of a steel in terms of corrosion resistance and edge holding

Michael Grasso [00:19:34]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:19:34]:
And, toughness. It's kind of a, you know, it's been sort of rediscovered in the last, I don't know, eight years or something like that. And, it's it's awesome. Plus, it's not so expensive that you're afraid to use it, and not everyone is afraid to use their knives. But I, you know, if I spend a lot of money on a knife that has really great steel, ironically, you know, it's great for a a reason, but I might be squeamish about using it. So for, a a true everyday carry fixed blade, I think it's a great a great choice.

Michael Grasso [00:20:07]:
Yeah. It's kinda like, if you have a Ferrari. Right? You're you you you wanna drive that thing, but, man, you're gonna be so careful you don't scratch it. And so I totally respect that, and I think it's awesome. Yeah. It was just super simple, you know. And the thing is, I think I never really got bit by the seal bug, just because I'm super cracked a lot. You know, it's like, if if if if guys in I hate to use this analogy, but if guys in prison can can can inflict harm on each other with some very simple tools, like, it doesn't have to be that complicated.

Michael Grasso [00:20:35]:
You know what I mean? So good design, some good edge geometry, some good geometry on the blade. Again, what is it what it comes down to, what are you looking to do with the tool? And so, yeah, that's why that's why we chose that stool. And that that steel, and it's actually pretty interesting. Our our water, jet, and steel, supplier, I talked to them recently because I need to order steel, and they're like, yeah. We can't find any AEDL right now. I'm like, really? And they're like, yeah. It's getting really hard to source. And it's probably because another maker I know of is probably buying it all.

Michael Grasso [00:21:05]:
But but, so we might have to switch to some nitro v possibly, which is a very similar steel. It's a great steel, but we do still have a bunch of, E. Bail in stock.

Bob DeMarco [00:21:16]:
Well, I mean, you can't you can't get married to one particular issue. Yeah. You know, certain makers like Emerson, I only ever see, Emerson's in one fifty four centimeters Yep. Also a great steel. Yep. Also one that's within reach.

Michael Grasso [00:21:30]:
Yes.

Bob DeMarco [00:21:31]:
But, you know, it's not really about the steel, it's about the knife and the and the heat treat like you're saying. But also if it's a everyday carry, if it's a fixed blade, but especially an everyday carry fixed blade, it's also about the sheath. That's great. That's make or break. Yeah. I am a daily carrier of fixed blades and I have my, my collection is definitely fixed blade heavy and, and I admittedly am a collector. You know, I carry all these things, but I have a lot of them, way more than I need, and, but the ones that have sheaths that I don't resonate with, even if they're great knives, they don't get as much pocket time or

Michael Grasso [00:22:13]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:22:13]:
Or in the waistband time.

Michael Grasso [00:22:14]:
Yeah. Now let's talk

Bob DeMarco [00:22:15]:
about this really excellent sheet. This is ambidextrous. Yeah. It fits the knife fits in there either way. Let's talk about this.

Michael Grasso [00:22:23]:
Sure. Let's go. What do you wanna what do you wanna know? Where do you wanna start?

Bob DeMarco [00:22:25]:
Tell me everything about it. Well, okay. Let me let me just say this. I have a number of in pocket fixed blade knives. Mhmm. And they have, great sheaths, but they're different. They sit, way below the the pocket seam line.

Michael Grasso [00:22:40]:
Right.

Bob DeMarco [00:22:41]:
And, they're they're thinner and they're not ambidextrous at least well, actually, one of them is. I have the AmTac Northman. Yep. Great sheath. That that's ambidextrous. The, Fisher blades Beckwith Covert, great sheath, not ambidextrous, but that's due to the nature of the knife. Those are great, but they drop below the pocket line. It's a different type of sheath.

Michael Grasso [00:23:02]:
Right.

Bob DeMarco [00:23:03]:
And this is my first kind of sheath like this, and I really like it. So how did you come up with this or or decide on this type?

Michael Grasso [00:23:11]:
Yeah. I know you and I talked briefly before the show, but, that's not an original design to me. I'm gonna say that right away. There's some guys that have been making that style sheet for a while. I'm not sure where it originated. I'm gonna do a little homework now that we talked and see if I can find that out. But, I've always kind of approached things like when I I can make if I see something I like, you know, whether it's a knife or, I mean, you know, I have this carpentry background, I'm like, I can probably make that better and cheaper. Like, that's just it's not like a a prideful thing.

Michael Grasso [00:23:40]:
It's not casting any any any doubt on whatever product that is. But, that was my approach coming to knife making. And then when I saw those sheets, I'm like, those are really cool, but, like, I I I think if I I I can make those really well. I know I just know I can. And so I just, you know, did a little digging. I con I got in touch with some other guys on some Facebook groups because, you know, the hardest thing was to figure out those little rivets. You know? Those were so hard for me to find and finding the right tool, and finally, I figured out where they came from and got the tools and, and the dies in order to to set them. And so, I I make my own mold for the sheets out of MDF.

Michael Grasso [00:24:16]:
A lot of guys will have them cut. You wanna see one? I have them.

Bob DeMarco [00:24:19]:
Yeah. Sure. What's MDF?

Michael Grasso [00:24:21]:
Okay. I'll show you. So MDF is is typically used in, you know, carpentry and building construction. It's, like, compressed shredded paper or cardboard. It's it's that's, like, a really, like, generic description of it. But it's a lightweight. It's easy to use. It's easy to cut and shape.

Michael Grasso [00:24:38]:
And so what I did was I just made molds for myself. These are old molds. I have new molds now that don't have as many holes to, you know, vacuum seal seal these. But, I just figured out, oh, it's really just a front panel and a back panel, and so I came up with these molds that I use with my, my little vacuum presses over here. I've got a couple different versions. And this allows me to heat the kydex, mold it onto this, put a flat back panel on it, draw out the shape, and then do all the drilling and cutting and whatnot. And so that's the basic genesis of it, and I made one, and it was pretty good. And, I had seen somebody else put Velcro on the inside.

Michael Grasso [00:25:14]:
I'm like, that is so smart. And so I just started doing that. But I did take a lot of time to kinda get the dimensions right so that you could eliminate any rattle. You know what I mean? Because that's always disappointing when you get a really nice knife and, like, there's rattle. It's almost like the sheath is always an afterthought. And for me, that was always in, like, the front of my mind. Like, I have to accomplish, like, a solid sheath because without that, it kinda gets lost.

Bob DeMarco [00:25:39]:
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And also, during our conversation before we we were rolling, we were talking that, we're not exactly sure where these originated, but we both kind of came to know these through offensive industries.

Michael Grasso [00:25:52]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:25:54]:
I I've seen his stuff. Very cool. I'd I'm interested in his knives and his sheaths, but, like I said, this is my first exposure to this, and to see your, I mean, in in in real real life, and to see your mold, is very cool. That that so that's kinda like a particle board sort of. Yes. Sort of kind of. And it's like you sculpted it or or cut it out with a band saw and layered it, and, you were talking about the front is obviously, that sort of stepped Yes. You know, to accommodate the DCC clip.

Bob DeMarco [00:26:29]:
Nice choice on the clip, by the way.

Michael Grasso [00:26:32]:
Matt, the owner, used to be, like, my neighbor. Oh, really? Yeah. He lived, like, down the street from me, and, I didn't know that, and I always loved his clips. You know, the clips, I I thought they were amazing. I was buying them. And I remember one day, like, my package got lost, and then I noticed on my front steps. I'm like, how did how did that happen? Like, what the heck he's like, oh, I he texted me. He's like, I just dropped it off.

Michael Grasso [00:26:51]:
I'm like, he dropped it off?

Bob DeMarco [00:26:52]:
He's like, yeah. I live up the street, bro.

Michael Grasso [00:26:53]:
And I'm like, what? So

Bob DeMarco [00:26:55]:
That's awesome.

Michael Grasso [00:26:55]:
Team he's been like an awesome mentor for me. You know, he's moved out of state now and whatnot, but I his clips, in my my opinion, you know, I'm only we're only using we pretty much exclusively exclusively use those because I distrust them, and I want our gear not to fail. So

Bob DeMarco [00:27:10]:
I I love them. I know a a lot of knife makers who use them exclusively. I'm always talking about them. I love their little logo. They're the best. I mean, in in my opinion. You were talking about the flat back panel. It is not quite flat.

Bob DeMarco [00:27:26]:
How do you get that sort of, kind of, bulge? Do you do you have to put a knife in there every time, or do you have a a backside mold for it?

Michael Grasso [00:27:36]:
No. So they they start out flat, and I think I have one right here. Sorry about that. I can't just eat. Alright. Here we go. Yeah. So they start out flat.

Michael Grasso [00:27:49]:
This one is black with, like a koi fish blue back. Oh, nice. And, so what you need to do is take a knife, where's I have one right here. And you have to heat up gently the back of the kydex right here, because you can force this thing in there. But with the dimensions that I made them in the width, it's not gonna fit right. Could you you could make this opening wider to fit it so it drops in without needing, to modify the back, but I found that if you heat up the back of it and you and you put the knife in and gently mold it around it, that's what really grabs the knife and get and gives it some awesome retention.

Bob DeMarco [00:28:27]:
Okay. Alright. Yeah. I, I like it. I like the way because I feel like it's, it feels better in pocket. Now I carry mine in pocket. At at first, I attempted in the waistband. I think that this would work great in the waistband if I hadn't indulged so much around the holidays.

Bob DeMarco [00:28:46]:
I'd have extra room, but I don't have that room right now. I'm working on it. But, but you also, offer these in a dedicated in the waistband sheaths that that offer a little bit more, handle grab. Is that right?

Michael Grasso [00:29:01]:
Yep. I have one. Those are considered a standard sheath for us. This is just a training blade. So I have, obviously, this is so, this is, a mini VSK training blade. This is the standard sheath, and this is the deep carry sheath. So,

Bob DeMarco [00:29:16]:
you know, if

Michael Grasso [00:29:17]:
I had my way, I would probably only make these because they're a lot easier and they're just so much more practical in my mind, but a lot of people do like being able to get a full grip on a knife and so we do offer that option for now.

Bob DeMarco [00:29:27]:
Yeah. Those those look those look great too. I'm a I'm a big fan of that style of carry, especially on a knife this large and Yeah. As I was mentioning before oddly enough this to me is way more comfortable in the front pocket. And it it even, I was concerned that I would only be able to carry this in jeans because jeans have that sort of Mhmm. Horizontal pocket, seam. But even in khaki pants with that steep vertical, this works really well and doesn't, stick out of the pocket, you know, perpendicular to the leg. It's it's a really, great balance, you've got here.

Michael Grasso [00:30:05]:
That's awesome. No. Thank you. I you know, the the height of the, knife coming out of the sheath, I played around with because, you know, you wanna be able to index it when it's in your pocket or wherever it is, either forward or reverse grip, whatever you're going for. And so if it was too short, it wouldn't work. If it was too long, it'd be obnoxious. And so I found this distance that we came up with should be really, really, just works great either in the pocket or in the waistband. I have used some other knives where the knives stick out kind of at a weird angle or too far, and I I I'd catch them and deploy them on, like, a seat belt or like a jacket all the time, and I haven't done this with these at all yet, so I think I think it's a good a good balance.

Bob DeMarco [00:30:44]:
Yeah. Oh, that's yeah. You you don't want your knife to accidentally, come out of the sheath or out of your pocket. No. So before we move away from the VSK, I, the VSK1, you also offer the handle, this is sort of a standard G10 handle.

Michael Grasso [00:31:01]:
Yep.

Bob DeMarco [00:31:01]:
You also offer it in a sort of sculpted rock pattern, Oh, yeah. Let's see that.

Michael Grasso [00:31:05]:
Yep. We've got it right here.

Bob DeMarco [00:31:07]:
Yeah. My buddy Dave has one of these. Yeah. He's, like, a little kinetic green.

Michael Grasso [00:31:10]:
Got it. You know, I keep I keep joking with my friends and, like, saying, desert tan is the new black. Like, prove me wrong. You know? But, yeah, this is g 10 quarter inch thick scales that, I shape. Everything's done by hand. So these start out as, these are black but square pieces of g 10, and we've gotta trim them and form them to each, individual blade. And then on a small wheel attachment on the grinder, go ahead and grind in this rock pattern. And a lot of people do it random, but, it's not random for me.

Michael Grasso [00:31:41]:
What I do is I hold the knife in my hand, and then I take a marker and I mark where each individual finger lies when I when I grip this knife. So that way when I'm grinding in, these peaks and valleys, you can kinda see there's a pattern to it. That way your fingers fall and they actually grip the knife. It's not a random pattern. And so there's no hot spots. And, also, in the reverse grip, same thing. You can see that the fingers fall into these grooves really nice. Even in the thumb, the punyo up here, your thumb catches that.

Michael Grasso [00:32:12]:
So there is a lot of intent behind that that design.

Bob DeMarco [00:32:15]:
So, I wanna take a minute to talk about your process. You do pretty much everything in your shop. Right?

Michael Grasso [00:32:21]:
Yeah. The only thing that we have automated in quote would be the, water jet blanks because it's just not feasible or cost effective to cut them all out on a, on a, band saw.

Bob DeMarco [00:32:31]:
Yeah. You'd be you'd be, many knives behind.

Michael Grasso [00:32:34]:
And I'd have more neck injuries and problems and issues going on, and I'm trying to avoid those for the rest of my the time I have here.

Bob DeMarco [00:32:41]:
So, take us through the life or the birth of a knife.

Michael Grasso [00:32:45]:
Yeah. That's a great question. So, it pretty much starts out with a blank. I have one. I have a bunch here. Excuse my exit from the screen. I'll use the VSK as an example. This so this is the blank that comes.

Michael Grasso [00:33:00]:
We'd use New Jersey Steel Baron. I'm sure you're familiar with New Jersey Steel Baron out in New Jersey. They're phenomenal. I've used them forever, and I think they're just the best. I love working with those guys. But anyway, we get these cut and sent in and what most people don't understand is I know some people might consider doing this cheating. Okay? I don't think it's cheating at all. Right? Okay? Water jetting technology is amazing.

Michael Grasso [00:33:24]:
And what what what one of the downsides is that, like, this isn't ready to go. There's still a lot of prep work to do on a knife blade once you do it because what happens is the, the water jet there's something called the kerf. That's that's the that's the the the cut that a tool will make whether it's a saw or whether it's water jet. And the kerf on a water jet is not straight. It's actually has some taper to it. And so these, the profile is not square. It's actually you can see it probably right here. Oh, yeah.

Michael Grasso [00:33:52]:
You see that slight angle. And so you have to there's some companies that don't grind that away, and they kinda leave it, and you can kinda see there's some, like it's kind of rough. You know, it's not that pretty. Some companies leave that, but, you know, that wasn't acceptable for us. And so I decided that on all our knives, we're gonna grind that square. And so you have to take this knife blank, come over the grinder, and grind the entire profile square. That takes a little time. And then what we do on the the VSK is we add hand file jimping to this ramp right here.

Michael Grasso [00:34:24]:
So you can see there's no no jimping on this guy. Alright. But then if I take this guy that's been heat treated, you can see hopefully, you can see it. Kinda you can see the jimping there. Right? Sure. Okay. So that's hand filed in, and so that's one of the processes. And then the last thing we do before it's heat treated, we do all this we grind our bevels post heat treat, but preheat treat, gotta profile it, do the jimping, and then we have to, bore out the the, the hardware holes to make sure they're the right dimensions.

Michael Grasso [00:34:54]:
And so you take that blank, heat treat it, and then it comes out. And I set all my lines, my grind lines on the blade so I know where to grind to so you get some even grind lines. And aesthetics are are super important to me. And so if you you can have a bunch of random lines, but if they don't make sense, it's confusing. And so, like, you noticed in the beginning, you know, I designed this so that the tip line up center line in the knife. When you put the scales on, I I match the pitch or angle the bevel to the pitch of the scale. So you can see

Bob DeMarco [00:35:24]:
Oh, yeah.

Michael Grasso [00:35:25]:
If you look at the knife, these two are equal. It's a little hard maybe to tell in this picture, but they're equal. And I try to end it right where that that point is in the scale. And so everything kinda ends up being super aesthetically pleasing. Even though they're simple things, the simple things add up and they kinda have this compound effect. So yeah. So that then once that's done, heat treat, we do all our heat treating. We have an even heat kiln.

Michael Grasso [00:35:47]:
We use all the recipes from New Jersey Steel Baron. They're wrapped in foil. We get foil packs precut from Sentrico. Their backpacks are amazing. They're a couple bucks and, so we do our own heat treat following the recipe, temper them here. And once that's done, then it's moving on to scales and to sheet work.

Bob DeMarco [00:36:05]:
Wow. So, you you grind the bevels, post heat treat. Yes. Yep. Now what is the benefit of that, in in your opinion? To me, it seems like it'd be easier, as a non knife maker to do it before it's heat treated.

Michael Grasso [00:36:20]:
Yeah. No. It is easier. It's, you're not grinding hard in steel. So there's less, heat buildup. There's less, wear and tear tear on your belts. But the problem is, and the other guys do it fantastic, is that I don't want these things to warp when I heat treat them.

Bob DeMarco [00:36:36]:
Okay. Yeah.

Michael Grasso [00:36:36]:
Because I'm grinding everything by hand excuse me. You know, there's gonna be some variations on either side of the bevel, as opposed to a knife that's machined. So this the face side bevel could be slightly further forward maybe than the opposite side. And and sometimes when you're heat treating stuff, that kind of the knife will pull one way or the other depending on how much of the material is removed, especially, you know, how thin you grind. There's a lot of things that come into play there. But, for me, I decided that I don't wanna risk and and have to deal with work blades, and so I'm gonna grind post heat treat. It takes a little longer. I have to dump dunk them in in the little bucket of water over there every time I do a couple passes, keep the heat down, but, that's what I I decided to do.

Bob DeMarco [00:37:20]:
I I think it's, it's pretty impressive because, it it it almost looks like, I don't wanna say machine made, it doesn't look like a CNC knife or anything like that, but there it it's so even, it it's pretty, I mean it's very very well done and when you look at, when you look at it from all the angles and see where the grind meets the spine and everything is even and, I don't know, it's impressive that that's all I'm trying to say that these are handmade. I kind of assumed, when I first got this, when you first sent this to me, thank you very much I gotta say, that it you know, I'm like, I was looking at it, and I see the grind lines. I'm like, And, so it was very impressive to me that these are all handmade and that you're, you're getting them out. You're, you know, you I can see your heat treat oven in the back. It's not huge. No. You're not heat treating a hundred knives at a at a time.

Michael Grasso [00:38:15]:
Eight at a time.

Bob DeMarco [00:38:17]:
Eight at a time. Yeah.

Michael Grasso [00:38:19]:
Yeah. And we, I do so they're not free hand ground. I have the jig, which which listen. I like showing this stuff because I learned from watching other makers. And so, hopefully, I'm sure your other viewers will appreciate a lot of this stuff. Maybe they'll learn something, maybe they won't. But, there's there's a couple of other jigs I have. One was, this one jig, I think Origin BladeMaker makes it.

Michael Grasso [00:38:41]:
This is a phenomenal jig.

Bob DeMarco [00:38:43]:
It works

Michael Grasso [00:38:43]:
really well. But what I found was there's a company called Moen Precision Tooling, I believe, and they make this guy. This thing is incredible. And so it's a blade grinding jig, but it's got a lot more surface area. It's, it's completely stable. There's no play in it. You've got little tabs where you can adjust that when the blade goes into this clamp here, they can rest on these little arms, and it's fully adjustable. And so this top part comes down.

Michael Grasso [00:39:14]:
It has file guides. I use an additional file guide in front of that, but the knife gets clamped in here, and then you can reverse it either way. And so it's very efficient, and it's almost like having a CNC in a sense. Once if you marry, you buy this tool, and you have a good grinder with a carbide platen, you can get phenomenal grinds.

Bob DeMarco [00:39:32]:
You know, that's that's the kind of thing you have to do, it seems, or or from from what I've gathered in talking to a bunch of knife makers, this is the kind of thing you have to do, when you're making knives by hand and you wanna replicate them and make them, you know Repeatable. All pretty much the same Yeah. Repeatable. Right. And but also be able to make enough to make a living out of

Michael Grasso [00:39:55]:
it, you know? Exactly. And have them be cost effective and have good margins, all that stuff.

Bob DeMarco [00:39:59]:
Yeah. There's something else that you've been doing, that has really caught on like wildfire, and I wanna talk about this.

Michael Grasso [00:40:09]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:40:09]:
This is your universal paring knife sheath.

Michael Grasso [00:40:12]:
Yes.

Bob DeMarco [00:40:12]:
And I showed this off on Thursday night knives the other night. Okay. And we're gonna talk I'm I'll do some I'm gonna be doing close-up videos of all

Michael Grasso [00:40:20]:
this stuff. Awesome. Thank you.

Bob DeMarco [00:40:22]:
Oh, yeah. But but this is such a great idea. Tell tell us about it.

Michael Grasso [00:40:27]:
Yeah. So it's a a universal paring knife sheath, and it's funny. I a lot of things I do, I kinda just, like, I'll get an idea in my brain, and then I have to get it out. Like, I'll be I'll be grinding knives or doing something. I'll be like, idea for a quick video or or or or a new design, and I just I'll jump out. So I I I just stopped work you know, grinding one day, and I I was like I had this idea. It's like it's hard to explain. If anyone who is artistic and creative, it's almost like you get these downloads.

Michael Grasso [00:40:56]:
It's really weird. And, you know, I have my faith kinda reasons for that maybe, but, inspiration is coming from somewhere and I, like, I'd like I got it. I'm like, I should make, like, a universal hair knife sheet. You know? I've heard so much about how, you know, Ed Calderon famously made them famous. Right? You know, one of the most commonly carried fixed blade knives in the world because they're cheap and readily accessible. Right? To the, the criminal and noncriminal, I believe. Right? Everybody's carrying. And so, you know, I have traveled a bit around the country, a lot around the country, actually.

Michael Grasso [00:41:30]:
And I've traveled, once overseas to Uganda, Africa in 2017. And, I know what it's like to feel. I don't like feeling vulnerable, and I I don't use that term lightly. Like, oh, I feel vulnerable. No. I have the right to protect myself. Everyone does. I believe everyone's born with that right.

Michael Grasso [00:41:48]:
You know, unfortunately, depending on where you live, that right is either mildly restricted, not restricted, or severely restricted. And if I have the ability to protect myself, then I'm gonna take advantage of that. You know? It's kinda like, you know, wearing your seat belt. Right? Like, you drive in a car, you wear your seat belt. Why? In case you get in an accident. You have insurance, fire insurance on your house in case there's a fire. And I worked a career where, you know, I wasn't on the offensive side tactically, you know, with criminals and stuff, but I was on the offensive and defensive side with fires and all sorts of things. I saw a lot of bad things happen to really good people that were just not prepared or didn't expect it.

Michael Grasso [00:42:25]:
And so I know and understand that the potential for a car a car accident, house fire, or some sort of violent encounter with someone attacking me or loved one, the potential exists for it to happen as long as I'm living here. Doesn't matter where I'm living, that potential is there. And so just like wearing my seat belt, having insurance, I'm gonna carry a tool. And so traveling is difficult because, you know, airlines are not that reliable. My experience has been they lose my luggage, things get stolen out of my luggage. I love my knives. I love my tools, and I just don't trust them, with those things, especially when I went to Africa, man. They lost all of my luggage, and I was in the middle of Africa for ten days wearing the same socks, using underwear, doing the front, the back, the inside, the outside.

Michael Grasso [00:43:08]:
I mean, it was it was crazy. Right? And so I'm like, okay. I just I just there's an acceptable level of risk, and and and and I if I can control the many factors in in my personal safe, my family's, I'm I'm gonna do that. And so long winded answer to, this universal pairing knife. Because I thought, like, oh, well, you can bring a piece of plastic and a pea and a little metal clip on a plane. Like, they're they're gonna restrict that. You know, some countries are actually doing that, like, UK, I believe, for example. They're very, very picky.

Michael Grasso [00:43:35]:
But for the most part, you can travel with that thing in your carry on bag. I had a buddy who just traveled to Florida recently. He clipped it right on his backpack and went right through and had no problems. He actually stuck it to person, which was hilarious. Okay. But it it solves a lot of problems, you know. And another thing is, you know, there's so many different paring knives. It's kinda hard to, like, make one sheath.

Michael Grasso [00:43:57]:
There are guys that made really awesome travel sheaths I think I found recently in the past for certain models, but, you know, if you don't find that one, you're kind of out of luck. So that was kind of the genesis of of that idea for the sheath.

Bob DeMarco [00:44:08]:
So just just, to clarify for the uninitiated maybe, the idea is you can't travel with a weapon.

Michael Grasso [00:44:15]:
No. Yes.

Bob DeMarco [00:44:15]:
You can travel with a sheath. Right. And you can wherever you go, say you you you travel to New York City, you can show up into New York City, not that I'm recommending you do, but show up to New York City with the sheath and go to your food emporium and buy a cheap cheap, you know

Bob DeMarco [00:44:36]:
Pairing knife.

Bob DeMarco [00:44:37]:
$5 pairing knife. Yep. And while you're there, you can carry this around. Then when you leave, you can give it to a homeless guy or whatever and but take the sheath with you.

Michael Grasso [00:44:46]:
Yes. That's right. Absolutely.

Bob DeMarco [00:44:48]:
Everyone needs a knife, including the homeless. So That's right.

Announcer [00:44:50]:
You can do you can

Bob DeMarco [00:44:51]:
do whatever you're gonna do with that knife, but it's the knife itself is not gonna be missed. Right. But the fact that you have a a sheath to carry it in now this is the the, paring knife you sent me. It's a a great useful knife, but if I lost it, it would only break my heart because you gave it to me, Michael. But, I I got another paring knife, from work, an inexpensive paring knife, fits right in there. Yep. I I have a Shun paring knife upstairs, that fit in there perfectly. Oh, great.

Bob DeMarco [00:45:23]:
And it's got a rounded handle Yep. Kind of a a d shaped handle.

Michael Grasso [00:45:28]:
Yep. The only one

Bob DeMarco [00:45:28]:
that doesn't fit in here is a is a custom that's got a wide, you know, much it's a bigger knife.

Michael Grasso [00:45:33]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:45:34]:
But basically any knife that you can pick up at the grocery store is gonna fit in here and you can walk around with it And, I think it's a it's a brilliant idea. How how have these been selling?

Michael Grasso [00:45:45]:
Man, it's like it's like taking over our business. Like, we've gotten hundreds of orders in the past couple weeks. So we went from a certain sales point last year. We did pretty well. We've already go doubled our sales, you know, as a company starting from, like, the first of this year. And so we're just like, holy crap. Overwhelmed. And so, they've really taken over a lot of things.

Michael Grasso [00:46:06]:
And so we have tons of knife orders. Oh my gosh. We have so many knife orders, but we have so many pairing knife sheath orders at the same time. And so it's really fun. It's really exciting. It's challenging. But, they, they've, you know, in I I don't like using the word viral because, like, what's the measure of viral? For us, they've gone viral, and we're just really, really excited because we've gotten so much good feedback too from people, like, just saying how awesome they are and, like, wow. Like like, why didn't I think of that? You know what I mean? And I don't know why I thought of it, but I did, and and we're happy that we did.

Bob DeMarco [00:46:36]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I'm glad you mentioned Ed Calderon before because, I had the I had the honor and pleasure of having him on this show a few years back. And, that was one of the things we talked about. You know, his his Elvia, his paring knife concept, which came from his mother who carried around a little curved fruit knife. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's his

Michael Grasso [00:46:55]:
Oh, well, I just bought this knife the other day to make sure, but this is one of our paring knife sheets and his l how do you say it? El Pinero or something. It tops makes it. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, fits perfectly inside this sheet just as it is. So if you carry one of these and you're looking for a good sheet for it, it it phenomenally well. Works really well with that.

Bob DeMarco [00:47:17]:
El Pinero.

Michael Grasso [00:47:18]:
Yeah. That's Pinero. Thank you. Yes. Right.

Bob DeMarco [00:47:20]:
Right.

Michael Grasso [00:47:20]:
Yes.

Bob DeMarco [00:47:22]:
Yeah. So I mean, and and, he's got all sorts of, ideas about how to carry knives in in different ways, and, you know, I've seen him, with a with a lighter shrink a a drinking, you know, like a water bottle around a knife and turn it. So, you know, if worse comes to worse, you can do that in the field, but why not just show up and have this with you? I think this is a great idea. I wanna in these, you know, last minutes we have here, I I wanna talk about the business aspect of it because, first of all, I know that your wife plays a a large role in your business. I love that. So, you have, you have a whole bunch of knife orders, and now you have a ton of these orders. How do you keep up, or how do you intend to keep up if this, you know, compounds?

Michael Grasso [00:48:13]:
Yeah. No. That's a phenomenal question, and I don't have the whole answer right now because this has all happened so quickly. And so and, unfortunately, because it happened so quickly, you know, I look at my brain and a brain is like a a Wi Fi, like, router. And the more things that are taking up bandwidth, right, the the harder it is to to kinda manage. And so I try to declutter my life in a way that I have bandwidth that can navigate and manage problems like this, and I love problem solving. And so, what that means is that, especially with the Sheets, we're gonna have to move towards automation, but not, like, third party outsourcing stuff. Right? I'm I'm actively learning and on a journey to learn CAD and, and and and some software.

Michael Grasso [00:48:57]:
I have, I know someone who has an engineering business in town that can give me some files and make some mold. But, basically, we're gonna be moving towards some sort of, like, CNC routers in the shop that we can, have cut the sheath. You know what I mean? Because, again, like, I've got some videos on our YouTube channel that show, like, the process it takes to make it all by hand using I don't wanna say primitive tools, but in light of automated equipment. And so that's where we're moving towards. But with the blades themselves, I mean, those we're gonna continue to do by hand as long as possible. We can probably start cutting, the the scales out on that router when when we get there.

Bob DeMarco [00:49:32]:
Right. Right.

Michael Grasso [00:49:32]:
It's gonna help a lot, but but we really feel convicted to, like, really keep this a home based USA. We're we're never gonna outsource ever. We're not gonna go to to another country. That's fine if you do, but we we wanna have a USA made product with as many USA made materials as possible, made by hand, made by people that you can relate to. And so we're still figuring it out, but we're getting there, and it's super exciting.

Bob DeMarco [00:49:56]:
Yeah. I I think, I think people really relate to that. And and I I could be mistaken, or maybe I'm just speaking for myself, but, I like the idea of having knives that are made, you know, these are custom handmade knives, because, and I say custom also because when you go to your website there are a bunch of different options you can choose for each knife, not just the sheath, but also how the handle is treated and and and a number of other, details that you can have, just spec'd out to yourself. But I'll you know, I think people like knowing, and having some connection to the person or the outfit that's making it. You know, even you were holding up TOPS, that TOPS El Nino, even even a company as big as that is still small, and and we we kinda know them through their presence on YouTube and stuff. But, but we know that stuff is made in house, and it's just nice knowing that stuff is made in house. No one's gonna care, whether this was cut out with a CNC machine or not, but but they are gonna care that it was made by you and your company and your small outfit in Southern Connecticut.

Michael Grasso [00:51:04]:
Yeah. I think it's really important. Well, let me back up. There's I can't explain it. I think people that are knife people understand knives know. There's something about a knife that is ancient and is primitive. It it it's it's it's so it goes so far back in history. I almost look at it as like a spiritual thing.

Michael Grasso [00:51:20]:
And so I believe when you're making something by hand, you're taking something from you and you're imparting it into that, whatever it is you're creating, whatever form of art. And for my me, my art form seem, you know, is knives. And so there's a different feel that I feel I can sense between a % machined, you know, factory made blade, which are great, but versus a handmade tool. I don't know. It's almost like I can sense something. So I kinda look at it like my hands are touching this. I'm imparting something into this that I'm passing onto you, and I think that I think that means something.

Bob DeMarco [00:51:52]:
Yeah. I think, I think that's commonly referred to as soul. You know? Yeah. Yeah.

Michael Grasso [00:51:56]:
Thank you. Yeah. It's it's true. I believe it. I believe it.

Bob DeMarco [00:52:00]:
So, in the length of time that you have been Armus and I well, first of all, actually, I gotta ask. What is Armus?

Michael Grasso [00:52:07]:
Oh, okay. Fantastic question. I'm glad you asked. So Armus is actually Latin for armor. And the original name of the company when I started first making knives in 2019 was was Bad Sun Blaze, s o n. It was kinda this identity thing that I had, you know, when I was going through some stuff, and I thought maybe if I embraced it, that would set me free. No. That's not true.

Michael Grasso [00:52:30]:
That that wasn't the case. And so walking through the retirement process, that I went through, you know, the I was very sick at the time too because I ended up getting COVID really bad in 2021. Didn't sleep, like, no sleep for almost a year. Like, it was Oh. Horrible. Like, you know, it that that's a whole another podcast. But the the just the the the things that me and my family experienced, especially on a spiritual level. Like, we just felt like we got nuked in every single way.

Michael Grasso [00:53:03]:
Physically, mentally, spiritually, you know, things, you know, you experience in your sleep. Like, there's a lot of crazy stuff that happens. And so coming out of that, you know, you know, I have a very strong faith in God and and, you know, the the scriptures talk a lot about there's this unseen enemy. Like, we're not battling with flesh and blood. There's a spiritual realm that we don't understand. Like, we don't understand it at all, but it's it's constantly happening. And it talks about putting on the armor of God and kinda like there's there's there's different descriptions of that. But for me, that was like, okay.

Michael Grasso [00:53:34]:
There's a spiritual thing that's happening. I don't know what it is, but armis is Latin for armor. And, you know, you can think of a knife or a sword as part of an part of your armor. And so kind of like, for me, if you get a tap people I don't have any tattoos, but if you get a tattoo, that's because it means something to you. They'll remind you of something. And so for me, every time I put a knife in my pocket, one of our knives specifically, or a carry knife, I'm reminded that, hey. There is this there's this unseen realm. There's this battle going on, and there was something that was trying to take me out.

Michael Grasso [00:54:03]:
And so I've known and believed that my purpose now is to have this company and where it's gonna go, what's it gonna do, I don't know. But I know that it's almost like something's trying to stop me from that. And so this is armor that we put on in order to move forward as a company, and I hope that people can relate to that message in their own lives.

Bob DeMarco [00:54:19]:
Oh, my god. That is so cool. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I concur on every point you made there. There is an unseen battle Mhmm. In my opinion and I think that there are, there are spiritual forces all around us always

Michael Grasso [00:54:35]:
That's right.

Bob DeMarco [00:54:35]:
That we just can't, we can't see and we don't, you know, maybe we have that part turned off in us that we can't perceive it or maybe that's a self defense thing, but,

Michael Grasso [00:54:45]:
yeah, I believe that

Bob DeMarco [00:54:46]:
a %. That's a that's a, that's a great explanation of what ARMS stands for. Mhmm. What what kind of advice would you give to knife makers, people who want to get into people who want to to do what you're doing?

Michael Grasso [00:55:02]:
Yeah. No. That's another great question, and I think we limit ourselves a lot. I think for some reason that's into in our part of our, not DNA, but, like, the social structure and stuff. It's like but I wanna tell people that you can do anything that you put your heart and your mind to. If you have a passion, pursue that passion. Even if it doesn't turn into, you know, another career like it did for me, I believe we were made in the image of a creator, and that means that we are creators and we're supposed to create. Right? We get these we get these things that come from somewhere.

Michael Grasso [00:55:32]:
Right? And, like, these ideas that I've had. And, the more and more that I've pursued the creative side of things, man, it's healed me in so many ways on and and just brought me to another level personally. And so I encourage everybody, whatever wherever you are, whatever you're doing, create something. Do something. You you you unlock your brain when you do that. You're connected to something when you do that, and, there's a lot of joy in that. And so, specifically, knife making, I mean, the barrier to entry has never been lower, I don't think. Especially with social media and YouTube, I mean, you can get a college education by watching YouTube videos, you know, because you're learning from people that have hands on experience, not just textual or knowledge based experience.

Michael Grasso [00:56:13]:
They they did they do they've done these things, they've made mistakes, you can learn from their mistakes. So I would encourage anyone who wants to do it, do it. You can make a knife with very basic tools. It's all on YouTube. You can reach out to me, through my website, or for any of our social media, and I gladly give you I don't hold any secrets. You know? A lot of people, I'm sure, have their methods that they don't wanna disclose, but I'm an open book. I have nothing to hide, and I think that's kind of, like, the best way to approach things for me. And so, don't be afraid.

Michael Grasso [00:56:40]:
Pursue it, and it'll change your lives in ways that are immeasurable.

Bob DeMarco [00:56:43]:
Wow. I'd well, I'm gonna leave it right there. That's that's, absolutely, and, I think your leaving an invitation out to people to reach out to you if they're interested is great. I've heard so much about how open people are, especially custom knife makers. Yeah. You don't get that from the giant companies, but how open people are to to to sharing their craft because they know what I make is gonna be different from what you make even if we're sharing a similar process.

Michael Grasso [00:57:12]:
That's right. Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:57:13]:
Well, Michael, thank you so much. Michael Grosso of Armas Knife and Tool, thank you so much for joining me on the Knife Junkie podcast. It's been awesome, sir.

Michael Grasso [00:57:21]:
Yeah, Bob. It was a pleasure. Thank you so much.

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Bob DeMarco [00:57:38]:
There he goes, ladies and gentlemen. Michael Grosso of Armas Knife and Tool. I love that explanation of the name. Inspirational. Go check him out. I know he's on Facebook and on YouTube, and I think, he's got an account on Instagram. Hasn't started filling that out yet, but once he does, you'll be able to see him there too. But reach out to Michael at and go to the website.

Bob DeMarco [00:58:01]:
That's where I've been going to check out his work. You will love what you see there. So check that out. And also, if you need to travel, there's only one way to travel, and that's with a sheath, not a knife. You get the knife when you show up. Alright. For Jim working his magic behind the switcher, I'm Bob DeMarco saying until next time, don't take dull for an answer.

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