The Knife Junkie Podcast is the place for knife newbies and knife junkies to learn about knives and knife collecting. Twice per week Bob DeMarco talks knives. Email Bob at theknifejunkie@gmail.com; visit https://theknifejunkie.com.
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Announcer [00:00:03]:
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast, your weekly dose of knife news and information about knives and knife collecting. Here's your host, Bob the knife junkie DeMarco.

Bob DeMarco [00:00:16]:
Welcome to the knife junkie podcast. I'm your host, Bob DeMarco. On this edition of the show, I'm speaking with Tate Buzzard of the Norman Tactical. I've been following Tate on Instagram for a few years now, admiring his handmade, mostly fighting blades, some of which are nods to ethnographic weapons, and others, all American tributes. His most recent recent posts feature fighting bowies with sharpened false edges that have really gotten me quite excited, as well as some sort of scalping field knife that resembles a timeless artifact. About a year ago, I had a chance to check out one of his handmade knives in person as it was on loan to me from Zach Wingard, and I was very impressed with both its refined feel and handmade touch. We'll meet Tate and find out what it makes, what makes the Norman tactical tick. But first, be sure to like, comment, subscribe, hit that notification bell, and download the show to your favorite podcast app.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:18]:
And if you'd like to, please share the show and join us on Patreon. Quickest way to do that is to scan the QR code on your screen or go to the knifejunkie.com/patreon. Again, that's the knifejunkie.com/patreon.

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Bob DeMarco [00:01:46]:
Tate, welcome to the show. It's nice to have you here, sir.

Tate Buzzard [00:01:49]:
Hello, sir. Good to good to be here. It is truthfully, an honor to be on something like this, so thank you very much.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:57]:
Well, the honor's all mine, sir, and I apologize. All sorts of things in this in this, place erupted right as I was reading your intro. We have dogs, we have all sorts of stuff happening, so

Tate Buzzard [00:02:08]:
That's okay.

Bob DeMarco [00:02:09]:
Well, anyway, it's really good to talk to you after, checking out your knives for so long and then finally getting a chance, to hold one in person. We'll talk about that in a little while. But, as I mentioned up front, a lot of really cool knives handmade that some of them are, you know, from places far flung and then some of them from right here in America in terms of their, designs. Tell me how you got into knives and what led you to actually start making them.

Tate Buzzard [00:02:39]:
Knives. Well, so, I I've been a knife collector for probably my entire real, you know, about 14 and older. Truthfully, I've always loved knives since I was little. It's something that I've I've I've was enamored with in movies and and TV, always trying to find out what exactly some somebody had in their hand or what they were carrying. And then as something like collecting knives became a thing because I had money and I had a job, I truthfully just went crazy with, trying to learn everything everything I possibly could. So when I get into something, I get in really, very deep, and I start learning history, and I start learning more than I probably should. And I get a bunch of different, bunch of different knowledge that people don't really care about other than, truthfully us, in this community. So, yeah, I I truthfully got into knives because of just media and family, you know, people in my family always carry knives like, you know, from my grandfather having a small pen knife to my dad always having a nice good Gerber on his hand or on in his pocket was or in his hand was really, you know, something I always admired.

Tate Buzzard [00:04:08]:
So then I started carrying my own stuff and collecting everything I could. After that, I had to start making something because I I truthfully can collect enough to to feed the meat. Mhmm. But, yeah, I started drawing knives. I'm not led to, needing to make them.

Bob DeMarco [00:04:27]:
Okay. I'm gonna ask you about that in a second, but, I I totally relate. I think you and I are a different generation, obviously, but, I too, from a very young age, and a lot of it had to do with media, the the like, all of the men in the shows I was watching when I was a little kid, a long time ago, They all had knives, knives on their belts, and and then my grandfather. It was it was always kind of this older generational thing that I aspire to. What do you what do you think it is about knives that's so compelling, to not just men and boys, but also girls?

Tate Buzzard [00:05:04]:
I truthfully will always believe that a knife feeds that strange connection to the ancient human side of side of people. You put a knife in your hand no matter what it is, and and it has this connection to you and and know that there's something you can do with this. No matter how that, you know, creative side comes about in whatever way you start holding that knife or whatever way you start thinking about that knife, it it unlocks this weird creative side of human beings that, you know, it was that first invention in my mind.

Bob DeMarco [00:05:47]:
Yeah.

Tate Buzzard [00:05:47]:
So it just really, gives credence to that and that's what I think is really makes people want them, you know? It makes them want more. So, yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:05:58]:
Well, yeah. I mean, I actually, I've thought about this a lot and what you're saying resonates a lot with me because, I feel like, in this modern age with the the sort of technology of that's allowing us to talk to one another, which is amazing, but still, we're alienated from a lot of our, you know, more ancient self, our animality, or whatever you wanna call it, and and knives really bring you back to that, and I I think you just you just hit on it for for real. It it is, we like to we like to call it the the first invention here, the oldest tool, the first invention here. But so, okay, you're you're grown up, you're 14 years old, you're really into it, and then at some point you start, you get a job, you start earning money and you start grabbing up knives. What are you getting? What was your collection like that evolved?

Tate Buzzard [00:06:52]:
Let's see, so it started with Cold Steel's. That was, like, the first thing that really kind of became the the thing I needed to go have and I needed to watch videos on, and I I needed to follow in some way, but I ended up with a week on Santo. Sweet, that I ruined completely because I I started grinding on it, and I it was a bad idea. But, yeah, I had I had from there, I had a bunch of different little, like, Kershaws, different things that I was just kind of learning, as I was going along and and and playing with knives. The thing that changed the way I looked at knives was, learning about Michael Janich.

Bob DeMarco [00:07:38]:
Mhmm. Yes.

Tate Buzzard [00:07:39]:
And and and finding out how he thought about a blade and something that goes in your pocket. And that kind of came from the Yojimbo and and a few other things that Janice on, few different things that I just absolutely loved. And it came with videos. Right? So it was also one of those pieces where, yeah, I kind of followed that YouTube trend of of knives being on, you know, these highlight videos that just people showed off these huge tasks that these knives would do, which definitely didn't need to be a thing, but sure made me want knives more and more. So, yeah, I after that, it was following designers. So once I learned about Michael Janich, I started following more and more designers, following where they ended up with, you know, Kershaw or, you know, some of them might end up with Benchmade or just a few of the that different class of knife that just kind of did have a fighting aspect to it, and started learning about the martial arts too, which also fed into what I started buying. So, yeah, it it really started to become this thing where I looked for as many as many martial arts, but also as many knives as I could to feed that addiction both ways, I guess, I guess the best way I can put it. Because as soon as the Michael Janish thing came in, I I started, you know, doing the movements and and and and having to just need to train in some way.

Tate Buzzard [00:09:22]:
That allowed me to just start looking at knives in a completely new way. So, you know, where I used to think Ken Onion used to be the greatest knife in the world, no longer it it it had that, you know, that prestige in my head. So there was, a big change that happened there for sure. After that, I I was in a budget range. So I was, again, I was looking for designers at Kershaw. I was looking for designers at c a CRKT. Mhmm. You know, just kind of anything I could find to give more and more stuff to feed this martial arts craze, but also feed this marsh, martial blade craze, at the same time in in in every way possible, but definitely without any money to really do it.

Tate Buzzard [00:10:14]:
So getting it to Jimbo was like a a crazy thing for me. Any anything else I I did, I I did it through basically budget CRKTs and and, and Kershaws. So once I started getting nicer jobs, and I had people who loved me to get me nice knives too. I did fall into some of the ZT's and and some of the different, nicer knives in this world, but that's definitely more of a recent thing. So I do have a bit of a wider collection now from, you know, Jack Wolf's to, to to a Spartan, Harsey now. So that's, you know, just kinda everything I can possibly have to really still feed that that collecting need because, yes, I do still make them, but I don't make anything that folds. So pretty much anything that does fold, I still I still look for and I still collect. But,

Bob DeMarco [00:11:15]:
CRKT sorry to interrupt you, but CRKT is a great company for a a couple of reasons. First of all, it's a great place to start budgetarily or budget wise, but they have, they take a lot of chance, chances design wise and they have so many different, designers that they team up with that someone can get their feet wet there and have a lot of variety. That's one thing I really respect about CRKT, you can, I mean they work with so many different designers? You know you could get a Richard Rogers from CRKT and you know, he's mostly a high end, you know, custom knife maker. So

Tate Buzzard [00:11:57]:
Yeah. And then you you mean another one that I fell in love with and not really a Marshall guy, you know, but Lucas Burnley that I I would have never known if if it didn't come from CRKT just because simply because I wasn't as in tune to a lot of the social media at that time. So it it completely changed how I was able to see a lot of that, that world. You know? If it wasn't on YouTube and I didn't see it in some of those highlight videos, it was it was difficult to see it at all at that point. So it it it changed a lot, and CRKT Inc was a was a big one in that. So I do I do really appreciate the fact that they took a lot of those chances because I would and, you know, introduce some some crazy things that still we use today. I mean, I still use static cords on just about anything I can I can get my, knives to go through? So static cords, I I found that at three c r k t too in Lucas Burnley. So

Bob DeMarco [00:13:06]:
Yeah.

Tate Buzzard [00:13:07]:
Having that that little cord and sticking a knife just right in your pants, right, easy to go. It moves around. It's easy to get to. It's always where you need it. You can ultra conceal it if you have to. It's it's a really great thing. And, yeah, like I said, I don't know how many people wouldn't have known about that without something that CRKT and Lucasfilm having.

Bob DeMarco [00:13:31]:
The time. You also mentioned Cold Steel, and Cold Steel, I still I bought one today. I love Cold Steel no matter how deep I get into this, how many custom, fixed blades I end up with because, that's been my my latest thing, but I I love Cold Steel. They were there at the very beginning, in the eighties for me. I I still can't get enough of them, and a great thing about Cold Steel, Lynn Thompson, when he was, head of it, you know, he knows a lot, not only about fighting, various different arts, but he he's got a a historic and ethnographic richness of knowledge, you know, which he draws upon. And so you want a sword, any sword from around the world, you can get it from them, you know, battle ready, whatever that means.

Tate Buzzard [00:14:19]:
Absolutely. It's it's and that's, you know, one of the best pieces that comes from from those from those companies, you know, and and we see them now and I look at them now and it is one of those things where I do kind of look at it and then watch, okay, the quality control and the different things. Right? But even still at this point, it's a they're great tools.

Bob DeMarco [00:14:40]:
So are you have you always been a maker? You said once once you kind of got into it and you realized you didn't have the budget for some of the things you wanted, you decided you'd start to make them. Have you always been a maker type?

Tate Buzzard [00:14:53]:
Yeah. It's it's kind of always been in anything I've done, truthfully. I used to take apart all of my toys, try to put them together into new things. I've always wanted to go grab a sick and grab paint and wrap it in something and turn it into the light saber or the the sword from the movie or whatever the case may have been. So, I spent hours in garages and sheds just just making different toys for myself, truthfully. There's still a box of toys in, I I travel from Arizona to Minnesota. I did it a lot as a kid, and when I was up there, I used to make a lot of these things. And there's still a box of these of these swords and knives, that I would I would make for myself to play with that are up there.

Tate Buzzard [00:15:49]:
Many broken now, but they're they're, you know, still there. So it is one of those things that I I never stopped doing. And it it was a weird thing to start working and not making things in in a lot of ways. So once I found knife making again, it was a real passion project that I couldn't stop doing, and I needed to continue.

Bob DeMarco [00:16:17]:
So how did that happen? How did you start making knives in earnest?

Tate Buzzard [00:16:23]:
It really started it started with drawing, truthfully. I I couldn't stop drawing knives. And the thing that I couldn't stop drawing was, what I call my hummingbird, which I haven't done many of these

Bob DeMarco [00:16:39]:
in a while.

Tate Buzzard [00:16:41]:
But this is something that I thought was just so much fun, you know, for me to use in daily tool type of lifestyle. Again, I mean, this came from after a lot of the after, a lot of the Marshall stuff that had come from, any of the education that I got from that, which is a couple of places at the mental unit. But, yeah, it it really fed in a lot, especially with, like, Libre and Yeah. Ed Mastro. You know, Ed and, Fred Mastro and a few of those different people who really focus on very fast and hard striking movements and also enjoy having some type of curve in many ways to to the tool just for whether it's a grappling purpose or whether it's a tearing purpose. So, yeah, this was, the the catalyst that kind of brought all of that together. I needed to figure out how to make this. So that's what I did.

Tate Buzzard [00:17:50]:
I took me a few different knives that did not look anything like this. But it definitely came out eventually. So, the Humminbird was what turned me into a knife maker truthfully.

Bob DeMarco [00:18:05]:
Well, that's, first of all, it's a beautiful knife. I have a real soft spot for the call style knives. I love what l Ed Calderon has done for that sort of curved fruit knife, and I've done Yeah. Quite a bit of Fred Mastro style MDS, martial arts training. Not enough to, like, you know, brag about, but I I really respect his, his mode and method of no nonsense, combatives. And, but that hummingbird has a real, symmetry not not symmetry, that's not the right word, but it's got a, a great elegance to it, and, it it looks very purpose driven, but also is is quite a beautiful knife. What about the what about the actual, creative act of making it? How did you learn how to grind, how to heat treat, and all that stuff?

Tate Buzzard [00:19:03]:
So, trial and error. I I taught myself YouTube education was a was a was a fun one. I truthfully couldn't I don't know where I would have found it if I didn't start looking online and and and asking questions through Instagram and and following through just different people who were making and, you know, were starting out and were willing to just give me some advice. So it it really, truthfully, it was a it was do it do it yourself type of type of learning process. I picked up, that book, that you see on Amazon. Anytime you look anytime you look up my thinking, it's blue and yellow. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Tate Buzzard [00:19:55]:
It does everything that, I needed it to to teach me how to heat treat in a in a proper way. So that was that was a very fundamental tool in my aspect, but it was a lot of hands on learning. I just I threw a lot of steel on a grinder, threw it in a fire, and and hoped for the best. I did it a lot through Amazon. Amazon and YouTube. Yeah. Amazon and YouTube. And, you know, I we were just talking about how the technology changes the way that we do this.

Tate Buzzard [00:20:32]:
I mean, you know, many people in the past would just look at me crazy for the way I figured this out, but I used the tools that were available to me. But I yeah. I I started with a small little forge. I picked up some steel online, from Alpha Knife Supply, and I I I went for it. I tried hammering some stuff. It it was hard. And Like forging? Yeah. I tried actually forging it out.

Tate Buzzard [00:21:05]:
I tried to do a lot of different things. I found out that it it for me, stock reduction is so much more consistent in heat treat. I have tried forging a few things out. They always end up usually with some some cracking, so that's just something I'm still learning on that side. But most of the things that I do are are a stock production type of work. I do hammer some, some things and bevels in, but not many. So I learned by just doing a lot of stock reduction, angle grinder and, putting it towards a little four by 12 grinder that you get at Harbor Freight. Figured out how to use a platen and just kind of taught myself how to freehand grind too, which was hard and took a its toll on my fingers, but it was a it was yeah.

Tate Buzzard [00:22:05]:
It was worth it. It's, still a process. I will never stop learning in this world at all. But, I mean, that's the joy of doing it yourself and learning this way is that I I will never stop learning. There's always something new. There's always a process I can learn. There's always, something I can gain from from just doing something a little bit differently. But, yeah, I I made a few different knives.

Tate Buzzard [00:22:33]:
I started making, like, small batches of knives and teaching myself how to do heat treat after heat treat after heat treat and doing, you know, tempers and making sure that I knew how to finish grind and and cover up some of my my early mistakes in in many ways. So it it it was definitely a process that that didn't, didn't come easy making something like this. I ended up having to hand polish it simply because my grinds at that point, even though they look fairly even, I that's all hand, sanding back and forth just to make sure that it was even in some way. So this I mean, truthfully, you know, it was just trial and error. Let's try this.

Bob DeMarco [00:23:25]:
Before you you held up a knife, and it's the one I was referring to in my open, that reminds me kind of a scalper. You held it up before. It's it's a somewhat recent yes. This knife. So tell me a little bit about this knife and and I wanna I wanna find out about some of your, some of the knife makers you admire and and try to emulate.

Tate Buzzard [00:23:50]:
So, that's a that's a great question. So this one, is something that I don't think that, I don't know. I don't know. It's it's not one I'm comfortable making, in in mass at all because it's it's meant to be a Winkler belt nice clone, I guess, if you wanna put it that way.

Bob DeMarco [00:24:11]:
I wouldn't call it a clone, but I could see the influence.

Tate Buzzard [00:24:15]:
But yeah. So, I mean, I I again, it's one of those things that I I can't justify spending that money on on a fixed blade. So I wanted to make one, and the thing that got me here was, and and this will send me on a tangent, but, what I do for work, we talked about Lynn Thompson. I've met Lynn Thompson in in real life, and shake shook his hand and then got to see him and all of that fun stuff. He helped one of my knives. He gave me his review. Very cool. And that was at, my job.

Tate Buzzard [00:24:53]:
So, this year, I met Daniel Winkler. I showed him this knife and Oh, cool. Got to tell me, you know, hey. You know, this is where he did it a little wrong, but

Announcer [00:25:05]:
for

Tate Buzzard [00:25:05]:
the most part, he told me I did it pretty pretty right. So, yeah, he said he said the same thing. I see I said I tried to copy. He said, I don't think it's copied, but that's that's pretty good. I'll take it. But, yeah, so this is, you know, my classic '80 CRV two. This is Osage orange wood with, g 10 pins and a copper tube or sorry. Brass tube on that one.

Tate Buzzard [00:25:32]:
Yeah. It is, like you said, hunter scalper type blade, but this is a a horizontal belt knife carry for me. I use those Jeep JeepO clips. This is a cool leather sheath that I I truthfully, I'm still working on, still doing a lot, trying to figure this out. Kydex is definitely where I shine, but in sheath world, but, it is a package that has been all over the country this year. So That's beautiful. Yeah. This is a big one.

Bob DeMarco [00:26:06]:
Well, I gotta ask you. What's your job that you

Tate Buzzard [00:26:10]:
went to the Winkler? So I I work for an organization called Spark Club International. I work doing the convention. So every year, there's a national international convention. It's been held for the last four years in Nashville. It's something that I've been lucky enough to work with all of the exhibitors. So, anybody who's sat on my show floor, I've been able to talk to, you know, had a hand in making sure a few of the different knife companies had made it in, which is, like, one of those, like, things where I got giddy about. So, Hogue and Benchmade and a few of the other knife companies that, you know, we know and we use, that hunting community also definitely goes for it. So it's a hunting convention.

Tate Buzzard [00:27:02]:
It's a huge, huge hunting convention. I deal with 875 exhibitors. It's a it's a it's a big deal. It's a lot of money, but it gets me some pretty cool opportunities. Like I said, Linn Thompson is one of the guys that goes to this. He specifically goes because he does of those safaris. So many of those videos where we saw on YouTube where he was on safari with the water buffalo, for example, or, you know, any of those those tiger videos or the the, sorry, not tiger, but lion videos that he did, those those are all SCI, hunts that he went and purchased, and and went on in videotapes. So, you know, he he was, he was somebody that I, you know, I had to stop when I saw him.

Tate Buzzard [00:27:54]:
So it's it's really given me a lot of opportunity. I met some some great people. I don't know how many people know Ed Van Horgh with Damascus. He's one of those dudes that, if you don't know him, you won't quite understand that quality, but it is it is one of he's one of those men that, yeah, I've I've I've learned to admire over the past few years. He's one of those people I met at this show. He does beautiful Damascus work. He does beautiful knives. This is

Bob DeMarco [00:28:30]:
Oof.

Tate Buzzard [00:28:30]:
Mag this is MagnaCut, Damascus.

Bob DeMarco [00:28:33]:
What? I've never heard of such a thing. That is gorgeous.

Tate Buzzard [00:28:39]:
Nor have I. So he he put that Magnecut Damascus together. It's a it's a burl wood and a resin pour handle. It's absolutely gorgeous. So Ed is, somebody that I've also sat down with and just talked to and just handed knives and had him handle them and give me your opinions. Robert Carlton, if you know, like, many of the, the, gosh, AG Russell knives. Robert Carlton used to do many of the steels for AG Russell.

Bob DeMarco [00:29:20]:
Okay.

Tate Buzzard [00:29:21]:
So he made many of the Damascus that AG Russell would use it, in his in his work and and a lot of that stuff. So, Robert also, you know, was is somebody who calls himself an old fart man, and he was just an old man, but he he really, he knows his stuff, man. Like, he he was one of the, you know, one of those dudes who helped design some of the early Rambo knives and stuff like that. So

Bob DeMarco [00:29:49]:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I knew the name. Sounded familiar. Yes. Yes.

Tate Buzzard [00:29:52]:
Yeah. Yeah. He's he's a he's a great guy. Again, somebody I've met at this show. So I've had some crazy opportunities, working in this in this fun little industry, I found, and truthfully don't know how I would have done it. My wife ended up finding this place, and I ended up just luckily getting a job and it moved into this beautiful thing. So, it's a hard job. It's a very hard job, but it is definitely worth some of the things that come with it.

Tate Buzzard [00:30:19]:
So, I'll keep it for a little while longer if, unless people buy a lot more knives. We'll see how that goes.

Bob DeMarco [00:30:26]:
Well, let's let's talk a little bit about, Wingard wearables, the love handle. That's the knife Yeah. I got a chance to, to check out. And and something a little bit different for you because it's, for lack of a better term, it's a well, it's a contract or a OEM style, situation where Zach Wingard, who, I have a bunch of his stuff. I got his back ripper right here. I keep I I have a lot of Zach's stuff. I do not have the love handle, but, he designs stuff and then employs people like you and other Smiths from around the country, to to make the business end of a lot of his stuff. How did this, happen with, Wingard wearables, and what role did you have in the love handle?

Tate Buzzard [00:31:15]:
So it was it was it was a it was an Instagram conversation. So Yeah. Truthfully, I I was a customer. I was a customer just like you. It was something that I was fascinated by just simply because I ended up with an empress. The empress is the way the way I started with Vanguard. And, again, like, I just thought it was some it was amazing. Like, I said, said, anybody who's from Arizona, I took an the empress down the Salt River tubing.

Tate Buzzard [00:31:47]:
You know, it it's it's a great tool just to know you've got something like a big a bigger stick than the other guy, I wrote really quick. It's a great one. So being able to start a conversation with him, it was truthfully just he wanted to pick my brain about about how to design how the design that he had, was gonna function in in my mind. It was something that I was like, oh, I'd be happy to talk to him. I didn't think I'd be end up making them at all, but, it was something I I got excited about. As somebody who'd been doing it for, like, two years, three years, actually, at that point. So it was something I was kind of like, I don't know if I'm ready for it, but I wanna do it. And as he showed me designs, as he gave me things that, you know, he he wanted to make, it was fun.

Tate Buzzard [00:32:47]:
It was fun to design something cool with him, and and pick his brain on that concealment aspect that he really works really very hard on. So, yeah, it was it was truthfully just an an Instagram conversation that morphed into a bunch of phone calls. And then I decided I was gonna make one. So I bought some steel, and I ended up making three because I broke one, and I wanted to make an extra. So, yeah, I just he was like, you know what? Let's let's see if it works. Let's just put it in steel and see if it works, and he kinda said okay.

Bob DeMarco [00:33:25]:
Do you have one on hand?

Tate Buzzard [00:33:27]:
I do. I have one that I hope he's Leonardo I hope he's okay with me showing, but this one is my custom. This is the way I thought the love handle should have looked, in in my head. So it's it's a it's a it's a big way.

Bob DeMarco [00:33:46]:
As you say that or before you show that, I I I've had Zac on the show a number of times, and I know that he was really, for lack of a better term, kind of agonizing over designing a knife. He wanted it to be just so and, his tomahawks, he he does endless sort of, r and d on his tomahawks, and I feel like he did the same thing with knives.

Tate Buzzard [00:34:11]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:34:11]:
Then when he when he told me that you were the guy who was gonna be making them, I had already been following you. I I was really excited. They they, it seems like two two companies, two aesthetics that really went well together.

Tate Buzzard [00:34:29]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it it was one of those things that I I didn't really think that again, I didn't think I was gonna be making them. I I truthfully thought I was just essentially helping him r and d knives. But I think the the kicker was I just went and made some. So this is one that I thought, hey. Oh, god. This is what I thought the the love handle should look like.

Tate Buzzard [00:34:55]:
I guess you can call it the wasteland version. But it it it truthfully, I was like, this is a this is a cool design. I I thought that the handle should have been a little a little longer and should have had a choil, and I should have been a little bit of humpier. You know what? I understand why he didn't like that. Truthfully, it's just simply because it this this hinders the draw. Mhmm. And and I he he knew that by looking at it. This is something he never even held.

Tate Buzzard [00:35:27]:
So he knew, he knew that it would it would somehow hinder that draw in in some way. So it would, it gives credence to how the man understands what he's what he's trying to design. So once it happened, once we figured out material, you know, I just I just I just ran with something. So I I think the first one that we made and it's you should still have it was, an ADC RB two because I was comfortable there with the heat treat, that we did with a burlap micarta, I think I did with it. I layered, black and a brown burlap micarta and and put that into, yeah, the handle the best way I could. I just kind of pinned them all up with with some more micarta bins and and, you know, did it the way I I knew. At that point, I I had not done a lot of scales, so that was kind of one of those things where I was like, ah, we could wrap it. That would be great.

Tate Buzzard [00:36:29]:
But, you know, it's, it it I I get it. Again, you know, it it it's one of those pieces where it's the scales, truthfully, they're great. You know, the paper my card, it does really well. The grooves he puts in, they're they're they're put in well. And his concept behind that was was just like trench knives, you know, or or the k bar that have those kind of grooved handles that are even they're they're broom handles, essentially, that you still have that that grip, that indexing feature that gives you, you know, a lot more comfort when you're gonna be doing a stabbing motion or gonna be doing any type of slashing motion even where where it could bind in in any way. So that way you don't lose that blade. You know, for me, I I fell in love with wrapping things simply because of, like, William designs. So he teaching me how to think about a tool without a guard on it was like, oh, well, I get it now.

Tate Buzzard [00:37:43]:
So it wasn't that daunting to me when he said, oh, I don't want I don't want this guard or anything like that. The only reason I thought that would be a thing is because I just really like prep in Detroit so I don't want my time. Yeah. But that is a personal thing. So Yeah. It's also I get it. The Hindus are drawn somewhat.

Bob DeMarco [00:38:03]:
Well that knife, the the, the love handle has a sort of Coke bottle aspect, not where our traditional finger choil is, but kind of in cross section. But what was it like as a knife maker moving into a mode where you're making, and I don't know maybe you've done this a lot before but you're trying to make each one exactly the same, or close enough to exactly the same, so that it can be one standardized product with one standardized price that he's selling. Did you have to, was there a learning curve there? Did you have to change your mode of production?

Tate Buzzard [00:38:43]:
Yeah, big time because it's it's such a big knife as well. You don't realize how large it is until you start trying to until you get shipped a box of of Waterjet pylons and you're like, oh, okay. Great. So it's it's it's one of those it became extremely daunting, production wise. I'm I'm one person. I there's no one else making the love handles. I mean, other than Zach, he puts he puts in the grooves, and and he puts on the clips and all of that all of that fun stuff. He does all the real heavy QC stuff that just, you know, it's gonna it's gonna flow past me at times.

Tate Buzzard [00:39:23]:
And at times, it's been bad, and and that's kind of been, you know, where I've been very glad that he's been patient with me because it's it's hard, you know. It's not easy to try to crank out that many knives, which is why that they're the price they are. And, I, you know, it it's it's a custom tool. I mean, it really is. And from from from each part of it, truthfully, I I I touch every one. Each one gets individually heat treated. They all they all are absolutely handmade, from from start to finish. As far as getting them water jet cut, I I after that, it's it's all handmade.

Tate Buzzard [00:40:07]:
So, yeah, it is it's a daunting task. It was difficult to to learn how to do that in in any type of way that's quick or fast, but it is definitely the end result is is fun. It's a very fun blade. If you ever held it, you understand what what it does. The handle looks small. The blade looks big. The curve looks weird, but man, does the thing the thing works. No you know, and it it opened my it opened my mind to, with some of these type of grips or that edge.

Tate Buzzard [00:40:49]:
And I'd already done this with Libre, but I didn't realize that this much curve could be that that effective, in that same type of grip. And then he started talking about using it like a pizza cutter, and I'm like, no. Duh. That makes sense. And it his mind is just a crazy, like, knife blade really wonk of it. It's it's great. You know, it was fun to just be in his head for, about two years that we, you know, we were designing that thing. So it it for sure, it was it was well thought out.

Tate Buzzard [00:41:22]:
Like you said, the Coke bottle thing, that was, you know, he he zoned in on that right away. It's something that, you know, if I can do it on any other knife, I try to because it makes sense. Yeah. It's it's great. It's a great little way of using it, and it also emulates the wrapping texture, that that you get.

Bob DeMarco [00:41:47]:
The the sort of valleys. I I love Exactly. Your wrapping looks beautiful, by the way. So couple couple of the things I wanna talk about. You your tomahawks, but before we get to your tomahawks, you seem to have a real love for bowies. I definitely have a a an undying love for Bowie knives. And Mhmm. You you put up some, some I guess when I first got in touch with you, it was after I saw your, somewhat recent posting with three Bagwell style bowies that just oh my god.

Bob DeMarco [00:42:19]:
They made me swoon. They're beautiful. You and you you sharpen the false edge and, but others, you you were talking about how you've incorporated some of that, Coke bottle texturing into your handles. There's a very curvy Bowie with a very colorful handle I saw you do that on Yeah. A little bit. Tell me about your love of bowies and and your inspirations there.

Tate Buzzard [00:42:40]:
Bowie knives. Bowie knives, I mean, I'm I'm an American, man. I I love Bowie knives. There's there's there's nothing more American than than a Bowie knife. I mean, from from tip to tail, I know it many of them came from Sheffield, England. I get it. But they were used here. The stories about them come from America.

Tate Buzzard [00:43:01]:
So, you know, it it really is something that no matter how you how you swing it, that knife is is an American thing. It incorporates so many things from across the world into a small package. And, yeah, I I plus, it's just iconic looking to me. So I I can't I can't deny a clip point from from the moment I saw them. I just I just absolutely love them, and that probably comes from just being inundated with Rambo knives and cowboy knives throughout the media that I watched, as a kid. So it it it really truthfully comes from a lot of that. But as I started using Bowie knives, that's when it changed. The

Bob DeMarco [00:43:48]:
Do you have these there, in front of you?

Tate Buzzard [00:43:50]:
Yeah. For sure. Let's start let's start with this guy. So this is probably the one that many people have seen that that that definitely Oh, yeah. Got them going.

Bob DeMarco [00:43:59]:
That is so good.

Tate Buzzard [00:44:01]:
So yeah. So, I mean, this is this is my first step into a Bagwell boat. So this is something that I wanted to shrink down a Bagwell Bowie. I carry appendix, on these knives, so it does sit kind of in a sensitive area. So, I I do wanna shrink it down when I can. I have learned how to do it for much larger knives without much of a problem, but it is definitely, a package that I wanted to recreate in a, I guess, much a little bit more of a modern way and little bit more of a combat knife size. And for me, when you're talking about something like this, the coffin handle is one of those iconic things that I I love. So I had to start with that.

Tate Buzzard [00:44:58]:
And then one of those things that I learned from being at my show and talking to some of these people is, I started learning about just the tapering, which this isn't the greatest example of it, simply because I was still learning. We could definitely go a lot a lot thinner on there. But it opened my eyes in how you understand what a back cut means, and what your hand does for that back cut. So that was a big change that I couldn't I couldn't ignore once I started making Bowie knives. So I never had experience before. I've never actually held a Bagwell buoy, which actually might shock many people. It is one of those things that I I had I I needed to learn how to do it myself. So once I started carrying on with it, I know Bill Bagwell loved that bird's head style bowie, which is this guy here.

Tate Buzzard [00:46:05]:
And I did finally start to get a a taper on this, and you can see that this is patina because I carry this often.

Bob DeMarco [00:46:12]:
So what's what's the distal taper? What's the value in the distal taper?

Tate Buzzard [00:46:16]:
A distal taper. Distal taper tang, essentially, what that means is many Bowie knives would have been made, by, a through tang often. So you would get a lot of, weight that would go forward towards the tip. Bill Bagwell did make full tang Bowie knives, and the thing that he harped on and the thing that most knife makers harp on is a distal taper. So it goes from the thickest part, at the hilt or the guard and then tapers down to a thinner point usually about the the biggest is about this is this is a quarter inch thick, and this goes out down to about three sixteenths, at the at the at the base of the pommel. So, what that does for you is it allows a huge amount of change in how the knife falls through that tip. And what I've learned is when you do it right with the saber grip, you create a large amount of force. You create more force than it might it it might shock a lot of more people than than you realize.

Tate Buzzard [00:47:30]:
And it's the same type of thing in Filipino martial arts that's an that's an abanico, or a floretti. When you're doing these these movements, these quick movements, what you're doing is you're allowing this this small area that does also have essentially the same type of of of edge to it as the front. You're allowing a lot of force to be put into that point. So it does need to be tipped well and distal as well towards the tip. But, man, you can fight with this thing like nothing else. It truthfully moves in your hand so well. And that is mainly because you're taking away a lot of the material that goes towards your pinky, and your pinky has a lot more function in in how the tip moves. So it it emulates the through tang, is the distal taper, and that was a very long way of explaining that.

Tate Buzzard [00:48:30]:
But, essentially, that's what it does.

Bob DeMarco [00:48:32]:
So is that why, like on, a lot of Bowie knives that have through tangs, you'll see a a sort of brass or metal collar right at the right below the guard. So there's a little extra weight there, a little less at the at the tail end.

Tate Buzzard [00:48:48]:
Yeah. So, I personally think so that comes I think that comes much from the Musso Bowie if you guys if you know what the Musso Bowie is. It is it's iconic. It does have it does have a bit of a color, and especially, in in many ways, I think that that's just kind of became something that that many people did to even out that that that weight balance because you oftentimes did get some type of pommel or you got even a stag crown. Many people don't understand understand how heavy a stag crown actually would be. And and a lot of that does counteract that weight. So you you get a little bit of this change there, so you've gotta balance it out. The truth truthful part is no matter how you do a Bowie, and this is a recent one, you if you wrap it, right, that distal taper, what it does is it does the same thing as that glutein.

Tate Buzzard [00:49:55]:
So if I put a pommel on this, I'm gonna change the way that that tip flies around. It it it wouldn't work. But since the since you've since you've taken the tip the weight away from the tip in the proper way, it can fly around with the proper amount of force. And since you've taken it away from your pinky area, the muscles in your hand can do a lot more as it moves. You can do a ton with a distal taper. And a through tang, you don't you don't need a collar, things like that because like like you would on a fruit tank just because you don't need that much, to balance it. It just finds a simple balance point. So mine was right about there on the phone.

Bob DeMarco [00:50:44]:
That is I love that. You you showed those three bowies in one photograph, and,

Tate Buzzard [00:50:51]:
I

Bob DeMarco [00:50:51]:
find it beautiful. You do you have the one with the real colorful handle that's more of a

Tate Buzzard [00:50:57]:
broader, blade? So this is like, I guess, a Mexican style Bowie, that also emulates, I guess, the Pracer War Bowie a little bit.

Bob DeMarco [00:51:09]:
Yeah.

Tate Buzzard [00:51:11]:
So this is one of my stainless steels, and I, I got lucky enough to start using stainless steel, which is, I use ABL. That's one of the favorites that I've had, as far as heat treat. Just as far as hardness goes and toughness, this has been a great one for big knives, small knives. So this is AEDL. This is, I mean, just, you know, one of those projects where I just wanted something, I wanted something big. This is not sharpened backside. It is distal tapered, but this definitely is not going to rip you apart from the from the back edge. Lynn Thompson would often talk about, you know, the tip or the back of the Bowie just being slightly sharpened.

Tate Buzzard [00:52:04]:
It doesn't need to be super sharp, but what this does is it has a very acute point. So if I do get you on a back cut, with something like this, even though this may not might not get you, it may, you know, break a bone if I hit you hard enough.

Bob DeMarco [00:52:19]:
Mhmm.

Tate Buzzard [00:52:20]:
But it will definitely open you up if I get you with that tip, and it would yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:52:26]:
So there's a gouging, there's a tearing, but also there's a there's a an actual, thrust thrust like penetration, that can happen with a with a, with a cut like that because you're also going down. So it's it's it's almost like a thrust in a way. Absolutely. Yeah. Can be in a way, theoretically. All the knife Theoretically. Gotten into, you know. Yeah.

Tate Buzzard [00:52:48]:
Absolutely. Right? I mean and that's that's the thing is it's it's theoretical, but the thing that I won't I I will say is that when we're talking about things that could be in theory, distal tapered tanks, they it it changed the way my knives heal. So I I absolutely can vouch for the fact that those are, you know, that's a that's an absolute thing that you you need to start doing if you are doing knife making in any fashion because it it really changes the way the knife feels. Something so this is one of the first bowie knives that I ever made, which many people will will probably do

Bob DeMarco [00:53:30]:
Oh, yeah. From

Tate Buzzard [00:53:31]:
this. Yeah. So this is I call this the bear I call this the bear claw. Bear claw.

Bob DeMarco [00:53:37]:
I

Tate Buzzard [00:53:37]:
thought this was gonna be something that I just I I made all the time. It's it's not. I I did I did make a lot of them. Actually, Wingard wearables has one of these.

Bob DeMarco [00:53:48]:
Wow.

Tate Buzzard [00:53:49]:
But and it's a great it's a great knife. It's it's a great little tool. I carried this for a long time. I still do carry it from time to time. It's just a little, you know, cross the belt style sheath. It's one of my favorite ways to carry, so, for a fixed weight. So that just sat just right across the body like that. But yeah.

Tate Buzzard [00:54:14]:
So this like I said, you know, it'd be completely changed how I how I make knives, but, this is heavy. It's it it feels heavy. Feels heavier than it is. It's three sixteenth of an inch thick, and yet it feels so, you know, just heavy. I've drilled out so much of this handle, and and we just can't can't deny that. Yeah. I I will say that, you know, it's got a thicker grind than I I would have done now. This is definitely something that's kind of like a modified Scandi.

Tate Buzzard [00:54:49]:
It's not quite a seder grind. And, again, my grinds got a lot better as we went along here, but, it it it changed once, we started getting into stuff like this, which is this is the knife that I showed the Hampton actually, which was next to do the improvement, based upon the bear claw. So this, has a slight tapered tang. It doesn't show well because it's grounded. Mhmm. But, this is this is meant to be an improvement upon, this guy here. And you can you can feel the difference. This is a much lighter, faster tool, Obviously, owing to the fact I got a high flat grind on here too, helps.

Tate Buzzard [00:55:40]:
But this this is optimal versus something like this for me, mostly because I absolutely, changed the way I started doing fixed blades and knives in a lot of ways. So once, that came up and started making, you know I also wanted to make more pocket style knives, that were a little bit bigger and a little bit easier to use. But, it it it changed. Like I said, it really did completely change the dynamic of how, my knives are made. So I absolutely owe a lot of credit to Robert Carlton, for that and showing me that, hey, you know what? You need to distillate this thing, because otherwise you're just gonna have this big, thick, heavy block of steel. Got it. Keep your knives alive.

Bob DeMarco [00:56:36]:
So, we're we're gonna talk in our, little, Patreon extras, interview about your tomahawks. But before I let you go here tonight, I I wanted to ask you a little bit about, how you see the Norman Tactical, evolving into the future. Do you have, plans for your company, that that you're willing to share?

Tate Buzzard [00:56:58]:
Yeah. So, I mean, the thing that I have been working on for a long time is just getting a website up. I know the one of the hardest things about the way I do it right now is selling on Instagram, so I need to get that website up. From there, my designs will always keep changing. You know, I will figure out a way to make some some production style bowels and and, just get them out in a kind of batch way. It wouldn't be more than five probably, but, you know, batching them in some kind of way would be definitely fun. And I I will get to a point where there there will be, some changes as far as getting some water jet, water jet cut blanks, done rather than doing all my cutting from from static blanks. But I need to settle on designs.

Tate Buzzard [00:57:55]:
I keep making more new things that are just too much fun. So, I need to settle down and and and get designs done because, you know, something like this, which I just made for a friend, is absolutely awesome. And we we we love more of this. So, you know, I I need to figure out how to get some of that stuff done and, and push that to to everybody so that way they can all enjoy it.

Bob DeMarco [00:58:22]:
Well, we'll be here for it. Certainly, I will, especially, those Bowies. So nice looking, man. All of them and, yeah. I love your work. I have since I since I saw it, so I think you've got you've got a great great thing going. And, so right now, currently, do you take custom orders if someone calls you up, says I want a Bowie? You'll talk Yeah. Kind of thing.

Tate Buzzard [00:58:45]:
The biggest thing that it needs to happen is I need to get a DM on Instagram, before we start talking. I I have a running list. I try to keep it at about 10, if I can. And then, anything that's just too interesting for me to pass up, I add to the bottom of the list, and it gets moved up once I finish and everything. So, yeah, I love taking orders. I love making make making people their knives. Truthfully, it's it's too much fun to pass up people going, Hey, do you think you could make this? And it's like, Yeah, pretty sure. So it it yeah.

Tate Buzzard [00:59:21]:
If I can, I will? If I can't, I will let you know, but I definitely need a a DM, and Instagram before I can start investing in this.

Bob DeMarco [00:59:31]:
Alright. Well, Tate Buzzard of the Norman Tactical, thank you so much for coming on the Knife Junkie podcast. It's been a real pleasure talking with you and seeing your knives and hearing about your process, sir.

Tate Buzzard [00:59:42]:
I appreciate it. This was truthfully an honor and, a fun one. I I I've watched this for a while now, so to be honest,

Bob DeMarco [00:59:50]:
cool. Well, the honor is mine, sir. Have a good one.

Tate Buzzard [00:59:52]:
Thank you, sir.

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Bob DeMarco [01:00:25]:
There he goes, ladies and gentlemen. Tate buzzard of the Norman Tactical, making some of the finest fixes for my my Bowie addiction. My lord, those things were beautiful. Do yourself a favor and check out the Norman Tactical that's, separated by underscores on Instagram, and keep up with his work there. For Jim working his magic behind the switcher, I'm Bob DeMarco saying, until next time, don't take dull for an answer.

Announcer [01:00:50]:
Thanks for listening to the ninth Junky podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please rate and review at reviewthepodcast.com. For show notes for today's episode, additional resources, and to listen to past episodes, visit our website, theknifejunkie.com. You can also watch our latest videos on YouTube at theknifejunkie.com/youtube. Check out some great knife photos on theknifejunkie.com/Instagram, and join our Facebook group at theknifejunkie.com/Facebook. And if you have a question or comment, email them to Bob@theknifejunkie.com, or call our 247 listener line at 72446664487, and you may hear your comment or question answered on an upcoming episode of the Knife Junkie podcast.