The Knife Junkie Podcast is the place for knife newbies and knife junkies to learn about knives and knife collecting. Twice per week Bob DeMarco talks knives. Email Bob at theknifejunkie@gmail.com; visit https://theknifejunkie.com.
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Announcer [00:00:03]:
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast, your weekly dose of knife news and information about knives and knife collecting. Here's your host, Bob the knife junkie

Bob DeMarco [00:00:15]:
DeMarco. Welcome to the knife junkie podcast. I'm Bob DeMarco. On this edition of the show, I'm welcoming back custom knifemaker Tom Nugent of Knives by Nuge. Tom is a long time outdoorsman with a background in law enforcement who started making knives as a hobby, then he turned that hobby into his profession. I first came across Knives by Nuge on Instagram where his crossover camp slash hunting slash EDC fixed blade knives really caught my eye. Having had the opportunity to talk with Tom in January of twenty twenty three, I met him in person at blade show that June when I bought from him what is to date my very favorite neck knife, one that I actually carry. We'll catch up with Tom and find out what's happening at our favorite New Jersey knife shop.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:04]:
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Bob DeMarco [00:01:43]:
Tom, welcome back to the Knife Junkie podcast, sir.

Tom Nugent [00:01:46]:
I appreciate you having me back. It's been a while.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:49]:
It has been a while. And, as we record this, you're just coming off a heavy weekend in Texas, from the Texas Blade Show. How did it go?

Tom Nugent [00:02:00]:
It was a blast. I mean, all those shows are so much fun. And for me, it's like, yeah, like, selling knives is an important part of it, but it's so much it's just enjoyable to meet customers, like, people that are excited or especially when they come up with one of your knives in their pockets. I have one guy who's like, I didn't know you're gonna be here. Look what I got. And it was just like he was just regular carrying. I'm like, man, that just makes you smile.

Bob DeMarco [00:02:21]:
What was he carrying? Which one?

Tom Nugent [00:02:23]:
He was carrying a wicket.

Bob DeMarco [00:02:24]:
Oh, nice.

Tom Nugent [00:02:25]:
So it would it's all and also too, you get to see all your buddies. Like, knife the knife industry is so different than, like, any other industry that I've been a part of. Everybody's so, like, helpful with each other. Like, it's not like they're in, like, the fishing or hunting worlds at all.

Bob DeMarco [00:02:40]:
Yeah. You used to work in an outdoor shop, right, kind of in your early days, right?

Tom Nugent [00:02:45]:
Yeah. I used to work at a local one that did all sorts like fishing, hunting, camping. It had everything in there.

Bob DeMarco [00:02:51]:
So that's a more, more of a cutthroat industry, if you will?

Tom Nugent [00:02:55]:
I wouldn't necessarily say, like, bat cutthroat, but they're not like, you know I could DM other knife makers, like, hey. How'd you do that? And they'd be like, sure. And, like, Shimano isn't, like, reaching out to Daiwa saying, hey. How'd you make that fishing reel? They're not they're not they're not like that. And granted, I'm sure the bigger companies are like that. But where I'm at right now is just so cool. Like, having Guy and Gully you talk to online and you get to see him in person and just, like, it's a different world in this industry, which is why it's so much fun.

Bob DeMarco [00:03:22]:
Yeah. That's that's kind of what I've ascertained is that it's probably different with the big, you know, the BenchMates and the Spydercos and such, but, amongst custom knife makers and, smaller companies, it's kind of an open open source kinda situation because, people know that, you know, even if you, Tom, share, with a younger maker your techniques, they're not gonna be making knives by nudes. They're gonna be making, knives by fabitz or whatever whoever that is. You know what I'm saying?

Tom Nugent [00:03:53]:
Exactly. And I mean, there's only so many ways to make a knife in general. Like, at least that's gonna be good and usable. And, like, I know you know because you have, like, every knife under the sun, especially some of the stuff back there on your wall. Yeah. Like, not all of those are gonna be, like, the most useful thing, but, man, are some of them cool. But, like, I was, you know Taylor Martin from Best Stand EDC?

Bob DeMarco [00:04:14]:
Yeah.

Tom Nugent [00:04:14]:
He's, working on a new knife, and, it's a bigger drop point fixed blade. And he was like, I'm sorry. This kind of the blade looks like the Lookin XL might the Lookin XL is just a drop point fixed blade. I don't know. It it looks like all drop point fixed blades. It's there's only so many ways you can make it. You know?

Bob DeMarco [00:04:31]:
Well, we are gonna talk about the Wicked XL, but before we do, I I wanna ask you about, Blade Show Texas in general. I was lamenting the fact before we started rolling that I didn't go this year, and I've never been, actually. I've been out to Texas, different knife show out there, but, everyone kind of sees all of the coverage that comes out of Blade Show Atlanta. What would you say Blade Show Texas is like?

Tom Nugent [00:04:57]:
It's a lot easier going. Blade Show Atlanta is a lot. I mean, even the way they have everything set up, like the for even for example, at the table spacing at Guaycho, Texas, there's more room from the vendor to vendor behind each other, so they're not, like, back to back with each other. And there's more space for people to actually walk through the aisles of the Texas one. So it's like, you don't feel, like, crammed in there like sardines. And since everything is in, like, one smaller room, it's not like you're trying to rush to get everywhere to see everything. You're already in it. So it's a much more intimate show, which is really nice to be a part of.

Bob DeMarco [00:05:35]:
Today, I was talking with Jim about my speculation about, Texas blade. It doesn't seem like there's much pressure, to come out with your new thing for Texas. I'm not saying that people don't introduce, knives at the Texas Blade Show, but it seems like it's SHOT Show, for bigger, companies. And then for most makers, it's Atlanta Blade Show where people kind of introduce new models and really make a big deal out of it. Is would you say that's true?

Tom Nugent [00:06:07]:
There weren't, like, a ton of new models, but there was a lot of collaborations which were cool, like small little batches and stuff. Like, L. T. Wright did one with, Jack Wolf Knives. And, so they did a fixed blade version of one of their folders, and L. T. Wright was the OEM port. And this thing was super slicey.

Tom Nugent [00:06:28]:
And I'm like, no. I love LT, but normally his flat grinds are the sliceiest things in the world, but this one I held it. I'm like, this thing's a razor. This is sweet. So stuff like that, they had a lot of, like, fun little, like, collaborations they can only get a few of.

Bob DeMarco [00:06:42]:
Yeah, I saw that. It's like a fixed blade version of his vampire jack, which I'm a huge fan of and I, oh man, I was burning with dimple envy when I saw that. I was like,

Tom Nugent [00:06:52]:
ah. Yeah, LT did it justice. It was really sweet.

Bob DeMarco [00:06:56]:
Beautiful. So let's talk a little bit about, your knife making past just in case anyone hasn't seen, the other show, the other interview we did. Tell us how you got into knife making.

Tom Nugent [00:07:08]:
So I got into knife making really from jujitsu. One of my buddies that I trained with there, he was telling me about this Walter Searls guy on the on the YouTube. And, I'm like he's like, you should try this one day because he knew I was handy. I like to do a lot of woodwork and stuff like that. And then I made a prison shank that looked like one of Walter Searle's knives. It did not look that close, but it resembled it. And I'm like, oh, this is pretty sweet. And I actually carried it at work for a while, and I'm like, oh my god.

Tom Nugent [00:07:36]:
It works. I mean and then it just started spiraling from onwards. And eventually, it got to the point where, like, I was getting commissions for everything, and people were asking me to make them more knives. And I was doing a whole litany of, like, culinary and, like, you know, filet knives and all the other things. And then the EDC knives started to pick up with not just my friends wanting to buy them or family members, like actual random people on the Internet. And, it got to the point where I was making knives instead of going into overtime because it was, one, I didn't have to strap on a bulb or vest and go to work, and two, I could do it from my home. And it got to the point where it's like, I think I could do this as a full time job. And, about two years ago, right after I, actually, two years ago with our podcast, I think we were on the podcast together, like, a month after I quit, which retired, quit, whichever you wanna say.

Tom Nugent [00:08:30]:
I'm pretty sure it was quit. But, so for people that don't know, I'm saying I quit for my police officer job that I was doing for about eight years. So it's been a wild ride since then, for sure, but I'm very happy with where things have been going.

Bob DeMarco [00:08:45]:
How has life been since quitting I mean, because, you know, police I the the here's my, what I imagine. Being a policeman, you know, has its certain securities in in terms of job security and insurance and that kind of stuff, but it's also kind of, well, not very dangerous, not kind of, it's a very dangerous job and every day on the job, you know, could could be your worst day. So what's it been like going from police officer to nightmaker?

Tom Nugent [00:09:16]:
It's just a different type of stress, you know, and it's a lot of learning and everything. It's not that it's stress free, but granted, nobody's came into my shop and tried to kill me yet, which is neat. So

Bob DeMarco [00:09:27]:
Yeah. That's neat.

Tom Nugent [00:09:28]:
I can't complain about that. But you know what? The biggest stress difference I've noticed is because I've been a first responder my whole life. I got my EMT cert when I was 16 and then did that up until I was a police officer. And I got very good at dealing with, like, the in the moment, like, triage style stress where I was, like, you know, process and execute, do what you have to do. But now it's different because now it's like I'm making, like, six month to year long plans, and you can overthink the hell out of it. I'm like, oh, boy. This is, it's stressful, but a different type of stress. It's not the immediacy, but it's almost the long termness that I gotta start getting used to.

Bob DeMarco [00:10:07]:
It's like you went from a tactical thinker to a strategic thinker.

Tom Nugent [00:10:11]:
Exactly. And it's learning that has been a little, you know, difficult, but, you know, so is learning how to make knives and run a business and everything else. It's so I'm figuring it out as I go though, and that's kind of been the basis of all of this.

Bob DeMarco [00:10:24]:
So how did you actually learn the skills? Because, you know, it's obvious you have them. And this is the primitive, this is the primitive wicket, the little neck knife, the first one that that I got from you. And then you just sent me something that I, man, I love it so much. Thank you, by the way.

Tom Nugent [00:10:44]:
Of course.

Bob DeMarco [00:10:44]:
I mean, I know I it's nice to thank you in person, but, these knives are great. And and what I'm showing here, this both of the ones I have, I'm a sucker for your primitive model, because they're jute cord wrapped and they kind of have a, a rough aesthetic to them. But you do really, really refined work, a lot of tall, perfect flat grinds and, really nice handle treatments and everything. How did you learn all this?

Tom Nugent [00:11:14]:
I was self taught. Very I don't have any formal training or didn't go to any schools or anything. I am very analytical at times, and, also, I tell people all the time, like, all the information is on the Internet. You we have this amazing resource with all of human knowledge in one place, and you could use it for more than 20 cat videos. You can actually use it to learn a lot. So lots of podcasts, lots of YouTube videos, lots of, like and also too, lots of just, like, looking at things and, like, how can I do it better? Like, one of the knives that I have in my desk is, I got the original primitive wicket, like, the first first one. And it's, made a lot of changes since then. I mean, the blade actually is physically smaller than the one that's out in your hand right now.

Tom Nugent [00:12:04]:
The jute isn't nearly as good. I didn't wrap it all the way back. Scandy grind, I mean, it works, but it's not the prettiest thing in the world. So it's a lot of looking at things that how can I do this make the knife better and also how can I do it more efficiently?

Bob DeMarco [00:12:18]:
So when you're when you're assessing your own designs like you were with the primitive wicket, what, what are you looking for? I mean, because you're a you're a hunter, an outdoorsman, but also a a former police officer and a martial artist, so there's a lot of different knife usage across all of those different, areas of interest. So what are you looking for, and how do you, how do you assess your work?

Tom Nugent [00:12:42]:
I I look at things, and for me, it's like, what is I mean, first and foremost, it's like, do I have a noticeable I'm using it? Because I talk the example is, like, when you got a bad pair of boots. When you have a bad pair of boots, you notice that there's a problem with them. And the same thing with using a knife. You almost want to I mean, you're using the knife to do a task. The knife is just the, like, the middle thing right there. You're not supposed to be focusing on it. Like, I mean, obviously, don't cut yourself, But you should be focusing on the task you're doing with the knife, not the knife. So if it just fits in your hand and it just works and it cuts, you're focusing on what you need to actually do and not whether if the knife is fighting you or not, if that makes any sense.

Bob DeMarco [00:13:21]:
Yeah. Yeah. It makes a lot of sense, actually. But does that have to do with how you choose grinds? I mean, because on this on the wicket, you've got a a Scandi grind, but on most of your knives, it seems, you're doing, like, tall, high flat grinds and and so is that is that part of it? How like, how do you decide what grinds to put on what knives? And

Tom Nugent [00:13:44]:
It depends on options for things because there is, I mean, there is no one perfect knife for everything. You you can't have it. It does not exist, which is good for me because that means I can make a whole bunch of models and stuff like that. But, like, the full flat grind, I personally like it on the with the model for when I'm going, like, fishing or food prep or a white EDC test and everything. Where on the primitive wicket, when it comes to the ScandiGrind, it's a more stout bloke. It's you can even baton with that little thing. I'm not saying you're gonna be batoning a tree in half with it. Yeah.

Tom Nugent [00:14:17]:
But I have more I feel safer using the ScandiGrind for harder use than I would the full flat grind. Just because, like, it's just the edge geometry behind it. And also, too, the ScandiGrind, you got so much mass of steel up there. It's like it's just gonna be a more stout knife. So it really depends on what you're doing

Bob DeMarco [00:14:33]:
with it, though. So, when you're, say, heading out to the outdoors, do you take one of each?

Tom Nugent [00:14:40]:
It's sometimes. I look like I got a golf club bag full of knives on it. It really, like it depends on what kind of tip I'm doing. Because that's the thing is I do so many different things outdoors where if I'm going, like, fly fishing or something like that, I'm probably taking, like, a wicket as a neck knife or a different model, like a chickpea with the same cigar. Something that's light, I'm just gonna be kind of aligned with it and stuff like that. But then other trips, like, I have a Wicked Big Boy that I made, which is just a jumbo size version of the thing. But I'll take that thing in the Scandi Grime, like, this is my personal one. I actually came prepared this time.

Tom Nugent [00:15:14]:
I have a pile full of knives in

Bob DeMarco [00:15:15]:
the back. Oh, let's see. Let's see.

Tom Nugent [00:15:17]:
This is the big boy. So it's a much, obviously, larger size wicket, but this is a knife I pair with a full like, full flat ground wicket. I I would have the full flat iron wicket as a neck knife for a light task and walk around. You can leave this thing at camp if you want. But this is more of your processing tool, like wood, food cooking, and everything else like that. That's when you have a bigger model like this. So, really, like, we'll complement each other then. Tracks.

Bob DeMarco [00:15:46]:
Yeah. No. That tracks. So let me show this off. I've shown this off on a couple of shows so far and put out my video on it, but this is the Wicked XL, the primitive Wicked XL. Is that what you would call this? Yeah. Okay. I really love this, and you did you took special care to to make a real serious 90 degree, spine, and I did something I've never done in a video.

Bob DeMarco [00:16:11]:
I lit a fire with it, you know, scraped the ferro rod with it. It worked so well, and, it carves so nicely, and it feels just great in hand. I've been carrying this a lot in this new ambidextrous sheath. I wanna talk about the sheath, but I wanna finish talking well, we're not gonna finish talking about two knives, but, since I was asking you about flat grinds and such, do you have any on the table, you could you could show,

Tom Nugent [00:16:37]:
I do. This is one of the more production flat grinds. So nitro b stainless steel. Same in my car to handlebars. You can see behind the tip. It gets very thin. Because it's meant to be a thin slice of knife. Yeah.

Tom Nugent [00:16:49]:
So it's this is something that I've used for gear hunting, and it's because it's a great skinny model. You get your finger all the way up around the tip, that big belly. So, like, granted, I would not start batoning, like, oak with this thing because it's like it's not it's not meant for that. However, with the perimeter Wicked XL, you can. And that's why I like the XL size because it fits that middle ground between, like, the Wicked, which is, you know, more of like a neck knife in my opinion or, like, a small ABC knife. Or the big boy where it's like, if you wanna go out with one, I'm most days, I end up with a BookingXL out of my pocket.

Bob DeMarco [00:17:25]:
Wait. Did you just say that the one you were holding up is a production model?

Tom Nugent [00:17:29]:
Yes. We are starting to get into that a little bit, which is fun. It's a whole different world, but we're working on it. So the blades are ground out in Seattle, and then the handles are done on the CNC. And then I pretty much get everything together like Johnny Cash Cadillac and assemble it here in house. So it's the I'm still gonna be doing, like, fully handmade and custom stuff, but the demand has been to the point where I can't keep up. And so we're starting to introduce models like the Wicked and the Wicked XL and then hopefully a few more of my place to Atlanta, but we shall see.

Bob DeMarco [00:18:09]:
That's cool. So this is kinda mid tech, in the old school, sense of the of the term.

Tom Nugent [00:18:15]:
However you wanna argue it on the Internet because everybody's got a different definition of it.

Bob DeMarco [00:18:20]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to me, it always meant, like, you know, it's it's the maker's project and, like a like a composer or a producer, you know, you have someone that you trust doing this part, someone you trust doing this part, and then you bring it together and, you know, it's your design, you synthesize it, you sharpen it, whatever, put it together. I think that's awesome. That's brilliant and it's a great way to keep up with demand, which is a great problem to have, by the way.

Tom Nugent [00:18:48]:
Yeah. It's still a problem, though, because, I mean, it's a good thing to have, but I've also, one, never wanted to be the, like, the elusive thing you can't get. I would like to have something that's available to people. And that doesn't mean I'm not gonna still do, like, small batch stuff and everything like that and do, like, you know, only runs of 20 of certain knives. But, like, I would like to have, like, the meat potatoes of the lineup covered so people can actually get a knife because, I mean, this is happening with me. Like, if I can't buy something and I go to the website all the time, buy it, and it's never available, I just go buy something different that's close enough. Like, it's and it's I know that's probably happened with me where it's like guys can't get the knife, and there's plenty of great knife makers and companies out there. They just go buy something else.

Tom Nugent [00:19:34]:
So you need to have it available.

Bob DeMarco [00:19:36]:
So what's your model your business model been so far? Drops?

Tom Nugent [00:19:40]:
Mostly drops. Yeah. And, mainly just for the reason that I'm just randomly figuring things out as I go. I wish I could say I had a grand plan, like, all laid out and everything, but it it doesn't really exist right now. In the future, hopefully, at least with the production stuff. But it's been a lot of, like, whatever I feel like I've been wanna make or what the customers have been asking because that's been always very helpful as I like to listen to customer feedback of what they're looking for and what they want. I mean, I'll even do do Instagram videos, but, like, literally tell me what you guys want, and I'll figure it out and make it, which is always helpful to have people like that.

Bob DeMarco [00:20:16]:
You mentioned the Chickpea before. Do you have one on hand to show off?

Tom Nugent [00:20:20]:
I do. The Chickpea is a happy middle ground between the Wicked and the Wicked XL. Same blade length as the Wicked XL, same handle length, but skinnier blade than the Wicked. So very comfortable. You can get your full grip on that same thing. But with this, leather sheath, it rides in the pocket. It takes up, like, nose real estate, which is really nice.

Bob DeMarco [00:20:46]:
This is cool, the the leather sheath. Is this this is something new for you?

Tom Nugent [00:20:50]:
This is something new. These are made by, Badgical Outfitters or Badgical Leather, whichever one you find them on. It's the same guy on Instagram. But he's great. John over there does excellent work. And what we did is we added eyelets on the back. Oh, yeah. That way, like, I'm having them come standard with the VCC clip, which I like.

Tom Nugent [00:21:08]:
But if you like Ulticlip, just buy an Ulticlip and put it on there. It's like we made it modular for everybody, which is nice because there's no way I'm gonna please everybody. So might as well give them options.

Bob DeMarco [00:21:19]:
I love that. Can you can you hold that up and hold it still so we can check it out? Is that Sure.

Tom Nugent [00:21:24]:
Yeah. I love that. It was cool with Texas too because I love, like, the PyDEX ambuscutes, like, the the one that came with the permanent looking Excel, like these two. Yeah. However, it's like there's and I tell this to people with knives all the time. Most of the time, it's not a bad knife or, like, bad materials or whatever. It's just not for you. If, like, you could just have a preference that doesn't fit that.

Tom Nugent [00:21:49]:
Whereas some guys don't like the Kydex pocket sheets because it's a little chunky in the pocket, and it's when you reach in to get your car keys, you have hard plastic. Whereas with this guy, it's soft. So you reach in and you could actually get past the soft leather a little bit easier, and it doesn't beat up your knuckles going in there. However, with the Kydex ambushed sheet, it has a nice opening at the top that always stays open. Yeah. The leather can collapse down a little bit, so you just have to guide yourself in a little bit more. But, I mean, you're not really doing too many tactical operations with this leather sheath and chickpeas. So I don't think you'll have to be worried about speed that much.

Bob DeMarco [00:22:27]:
Right. Right. There's never a need to re there's never a need for speed when you're putting your knife back in the sheet. No. Maybe maybe when you're drawing it.

Tom Nugent [00:22:36]:
Like, when it comes, like, at the previous job, it's like that's when something like, say you've taken something that like, with your gun holster. You wanna be able to holster that thing without even looking at it, and I understand that. But with what we're doing here, like, cutting fishing line and going camping or cutting an Amazon package, I think we could slowed down a little bit.

Bob DeMarco [00:22:58]:
Yeah. Exactly. And leather, oh, man. I love leather. It's such a great material. Kinda like jute's, you know, I was mentioning when we were texting, I love how this how I don't wanna call it soft because it's not necessarily soft, but you might look at the jute and think that it's gonna be itchy next to your bare skin. But this, has this has been a a companion ever since I got it because it's so thin and part of that is because it's jute wrapped, but it's also very comfortable and that's for the same reason. And I really like, you know, certain materials and that happens to be one of them.

Bob DeMarco [00:23:35]:
Leather is another one. I think I'm gonna have to keep my eyes out for a chickpea drop. I I just saw and, you know, people could be listening to this or watching this anytime, but if they're watching it as it dropped, you did a pre Texas blade show, drop, which, has some chickpeas in it if I'm not mistaken, so I'm gonna have to keep my eyes peeled on that.

Tom Nugent [00:23:57]:
Yeah. It's, one of my it's actually one of my oldest knives. The chickpea has been around before the wicked. Okay. And I actually designed this knife to be a replacement to, boy scout knives. But for some reason, which drives me up a wall, fixed blades are not allowed in the Boy Scouts, which because they say they're not safe. Now granted, I'm sure if you have, like, the trench tool you got behind you with the brass knuckles and the seven inch blade, sure, don't give the Boy Scouts that. However, this little thing should is actually safer.

Tom Nugent [00:24:33]:
I wanted it to be the same size as a slip joint in the hand because that's the issue on the Boy Scouts. So nothing too crazy, nothing that's gonna pull out and have parents stop you from using what you're doing, and just a do all style knife. And then a bunch of grown men and women started liking the knife, and it just took off from there.

Bob DeMarco [00:24:52]:
I mean, you could easily argue that the slip joint that you get as a boy scout is way more dangerous because the whole thing could fold on your hand, you know.

Tom Nugent [00:25:01]:
Yeah. I've seen it many a times and, had to teach many a lessons afterwards about knife safety. But that's what the standard issue is, is a slip joint. And it's for me, it makes no sense because a fixed blade is inherently going to be safer because there are no moving parts. There is no deploying it. I mean, I even cut my hand with a slip joint pretty bad last year, which is why I don't trust myself with folding knives anymore. So it's just a much safer option, and I really do like this knife. I'm glad it's still in the lineup.

Bob DeMarco [00:25:32]:
Let's talk a little bit about the ambidextrous g 10 sheath, which I know you were working on for a little while and you perfected. What what, first of all, inspired you to make an ambidextrous sheath, and then what went into the r and d of creating this?

Tom Nugent [00:25:48]:
So I actually started using them originally when Josh from Offensive Industries was making them for me, and he does killer work with those things. And then it got to the point where I'm like, you know, Josh was getting so busy with his own knives. And then I just asked him, like, how do you like, I would look at and this is my overnight outlook on mine, but I could figure this out. But then also, I just hit up Josh, like, how do you do this? And he walked me through everything, which was super helpful, which is like what I was saying before about the knife industry being so different. Like, here's another maker showing me how to make a sheet that he's famous for. So it's it's cool that it works that way. And even with the XL specifically or the perimeter one, it was actually a little difficult to dial this one in because on the right side of the handle, that side right there, where you had different rights and lefts,

Bob DeMarco [00:26:36]:
you know,

Tom Nugent [00:26:36]:
it's actually a little bit of a hump from when the juke goes in. So it was easier to figure out the ones with the slab handle scales because they were uniform on both sides. Right. But this one, it took a lot of finagling to get it down just pat, and, that's why this one took a little bit longer. And I think I made about, like, seven or eight sheets before that all ended up in the trash, before we got dialed in on this package.

Bob DeMarco [00:27:05]:
I I love it. So this this is, I've been carrying this ever since, you sent it to me. And something I've been noticing is that that ease of return. And you said it's always open, unlike a softer leather pocket tube. But it takes very little to to find it and and put it away. It's got a very satisfying, I don't know. It's not a click like on a, like on a kydex like a like this kydex sheath where it clicks in, but it's got a really nice, gratifying feel when it you know it's in there. And part of that is you've got the Velcro, the soft side of the Velcro on the, the forward portion here, which kinda stops it from rattling.

Bob DeMarco [00:27:50]:
I I also think it probably, saves the knife from scratching against the hardware, on the inside from the DCC clip, which is a great choice, by the

Tom Nugent [00:28:00]:
way. It's one of my favorites.

Bob DeMarco [00:28:02]:
Have you been have you received a lot of, you know, accolades for this? People digging it

Tom Nugent [00:28:08]:
or or what? People like it a lot. But like I said, at Glacial Texas, this is why I love doing in person things, a lot of people were actually gravitating towards the leather pocket sheets. And I actually had a couple people that bought some knives that came with, this style sheet, and they went over to John who had a table and bought a leather sheet from him. Oh. And it's but like I said, it's people have different preferences, and I just do my best to try to meet as many of them just like, you know, these come with scandi grinds, but I also do a series with full flat grind. And it's you try to cover all the bases that you can.

Bob DeMarco [00:28:44]:
So, as the knifemaker, how much how much do you kinda listen to what the people want? Or or how much I know you listen, but, I mean, how much does it take to get you to start steering the ship in a different direction? Do you listen for, like, an overwhelming response to one idea and go with that, or is it kind of what strikes your fancy?

Tom Nugent [00:29:11]:
It makes a bold. Like, I listen a lot to customer feedback. I also look at analytics because analytics don't lock. Like I said, I'm very into the like, reading way too deep into things. However, it's like, you could see what people are requesting back in stock on my website. What do people want? Like, where do I let the customer tell you what they want? When it comes, like, doing other wall encr like, everybody always wants to have a different steal. They'll, like, hey. Can you do that in crew wear? Hey.

Tom Nugent [00:29:39]:
Can you do that in whatever steal they decided is the most popular for the day? And I'm like, okay, we would need to slow this down a little bit because that stuff that when with me, I test all these knives thoroughly. I junk a lot of them before they ever get to the market. And if I was to just use a whole bunch of different steels, I don't know where I'd find the time to test all of them. Because, I mean, I could tell you that certain steels are not going to react the same way to certain lines and everything else. So I don't know if, say, if, like, a crew wear would jive on my full flatground look. It probably would do fine, but, like, I'm not gonna sell something with the probably it will do fine as the selling port. Like, that's I'd like to know how they're going to perform, if that makes sense.

Bob DeMarco [00:30:26]:
Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I think that's a good call too because, you know, you could you could possibly be changing it up for the steal of the of the hour, but really not be very good at heat treating it for a while, and you don't want those knives to be out in the wild. Both of my wickets are ADCRV two. Is this your your primary steal of choice?

Tom Nugent [00:30:50]:
It's one of my favorites. Between that and AAVL or NitroV, the ADC RB two, I know sometimes it gets a bad rap for its egg retention, but I actually sold a knife to a customer at Blade Show Texas that was my beater knife all winter long, because we burned two fireplaces here. I got one for the shop, one for the house, and that was my go to. It was a big boy with the ADC RV two permanent finish on it, and the customer just kept wanting to buy it from me. And I'm like, no. This is my user. I've used this thing all winter long. And eventually, I'm like, fine.

Tom Nugent [00:31:26]:
I'll take your money. But and I took like, I told him, like, there was no edge damage on it. All I did was strop it back. I would clean off fat wood resin and strop it. And a couple times, you would have, like, the times when you're cut prepping the wood in the morning and you accidentally hit the rocks on in front of the fireplace, but, you know, it's still fine. It all came back with a strop. I didn't have to take it to stones or anything, which is why I love that steel, and I just know how it's gonna perform. And, also, I know it's pretty bombproof.

Bob DeMarco [00:31:56]:
It's, meaning very tough. Right? Yes. It's a high carbon steel. Right?

Tom Nugent [00:32:03]:
Yep. Okay.

Bob DeMarco [00:32:05]:
And then what do you do to make the primitive finish? I know you Cerakote some stuff, don't you? Or

Tom Nugent [00:32:11]:
Yeah. But with the primitive, that's actually the heat treat finish. Oh, okay. So that's the way it comes out of heat treat. So each time it's unique, it's different? You're never gonna I can't make two the same. It's impossible.

Bob DeMarco [00:32:23]:
Yeah. Wow. So you, you used two fireplaces to heat everything up so that oh my god. That's like a little fantasy of mine. We're actually starting a little house project here and I was really opting for a wood stove for a while, but it looks like we're not gonna be doing that.

Tom Nugent [00:32:40]:
It provides that special warmth. And it's just like being by a campfire, especially when you have the glass ones and everything. Like, it's just that warming feeling, and it's such a nice dry heat. And then two, from, like, more of a self aligned standpoint, you know, you could not get your oil tank filled and still have heat. Even if we you know, with generator and everything all set up. But, like, even if all that goes, like, we could still heat our house. We could still cook. The pipes aren't gonna freeze because we could we provide our own heat.

Tom Nugent [00:33:07]:
So and that's huge for Jersey where it just seems to be cold and wet for half the damn year.

Bob DeMarco [00:33:12]:
Yeah. You know, people have a, maybe, one dimensional idea of New Jersey, I think. Right? A lot of people think it's very urban and suburban, but I I know from experience there are some really beautiful and wild areas of New Jersey. Is that kinda where you're living?

Tom Nugent [00:33:32]:
Yeah. I live on the northern end of the state. I actually live, I mean, down the road from the Appalachian Trail. So we are about 1,800 feet up in elevation. It's I'm surrounded by three state forests. Got a bunch of lakes around me. It is gorgeous. But also Newark in New York City is still only forty five to minutes to an hour away.

Tom Nugent [00:33:52]:
So very quickly, you could end up back in the concrete jungle.

Bob DeMarco [00:33:56]:
One jungle to another. But that's pretty cool. What is it like in terms of knife laws? I mean, we know that New Jersey is a pretty strict place, for guns, that's for sure. What's it like for knives there?

Tom Nugent [00:34:09]:
It's reasonable use, which I hate because it's a gray wall. It depends on who the cop is, and it depends who the judge is and how good your lawyer is. Like and I would always explain it where it's like, if you were to walk into Starbucks with a machete, that's gonna be a no no. But if you were to go to the woods and you're clear and your deer stand out and you have that same machete on you, then that's fine. So, like, that's also where the Wicked and some other knives came out because I'm like, I could walk through suburbia and not be worried about having this offer and not be worried about, like, getting those weird books from people. And also deep carry pocket sheets are nice for that too because, you know Yeah. If they don't see it, they don't ask any questions.

Bob DeMarco [00:34:54]:
Yeah. Well, I mean, those two scenarios, you laid out seem reasonable. We have open carry where I live, but, you'd have people freaking out if you just walked around with a bowie knife on your leg, even though it's perfectly illegal. So, yeah, the grayness of the law, I I'm not so I'm not so fond of. But the fact that you're allowed to carry and buy these things is, you know, that's good enough. I know you don't have it that way with guns.

Tom Nugent [00:35:23]:
Well, it's like I wish it was like that with guns because now it's funny. Now I used to when I was a cop, I could conceal carry wherever I wanted. And now being in New Jersey, I switched professions and all of a sudden, like, nope. You can't do that anymore. I'm like, you know, it was just the same guy who was protecting children in schools, and I just changed job titles. And they're like, but that's New Jersey. I like where I live. I don't like the state so much.

Tom Nugent [00:35:49]:
And I'm sure a lot of people in the tri state area up here would agree with that statement.

Bob DeMarco [00:35:54]:
I lived in New York City for about twelve years, twelve or thirteen years, and, I I walked around with some I was so clueless. I walked around with, big knives, in my waistband, and, now when I think of it, I shudder because if I had gotten busted, I would have been, you know you we'd be talking you'd be talking to me from Rikers Island.

Tom Nugent [00:36:18]:
Well, that's also why neck knives are actually nice in New York City because I can tell you this, cops aren't looking for neck knives, not in the city. They're looking for pocket clips. They're looking for the easy things and everything. Where a neck knife, especially with the Leatherland, just looks like a necklace. Right? Yes. Nobody's gonna know it's there. Not saying doing anything illegal. I'm just saying.

Tom Nugent [00:36:39]:
No.

Bob DeMarco [00:36:39]:
Certainly not. Certainly not. But, yeah, you do have, some I wanna show this off just while while we're talking about it. A really nice leather, what do you call this? Lanyard or whatever necklace to hang this around, and you have this really cool clip on it. The WASU clip, I think it is. Yep. What inspired this as opposed to a piece of paracord?

Tom Nugent [00:37:05]:
The Wazoo spark necklace, which I keep on my primitive look and my personal one. And so what that is is a ceramic striker, and a small throw searing rod. And I was using this, and it's so comfortable. And the nice part about the leather laminate too is that it can come off of the sheet very easily. You just undo that snap and pulls right through. When I was doing the pop snaps, you would have to cut the paracord to then take it off. Or if you did it without the pop snaps, then you would have to, you know, retie it every time. But I also like personally having a failure point.

Tom Nugent [00:37:42]:
I know the chances of falling down a ravine and then being caught by a branch, by your paracord necklace, and then choke him to death is very low. But there's just something about it I can't get passed. So I know

Bob DeMarco [00:37:56]:
a scissor guy.

Tom Nugent [00:37:57]:
Well, that and, you know, enough I've been a first responder for almost as, like, half my lifetime. Yeah. You you see a lot of once in a lifetime things that you just like, yeah. I've I've seen enough. So I like having a failure point.

Bob DeMarco [00:38:11]:
That's interesting you said. I never I never quite thought of that because I all of my neck knives except for this one are basically paracord or my my daughter sometimes makes these little leather braids that I like to use. But they would all totally garret me if I if they got caught. But I'm like, what are the chances? But it's interesting that you say that because as a first responder, yeah, you're seeing people at their worst on their worst day.

Tom Nugent [00:38:36]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, all those once in a lifetime occasions, you get to see them on a daily basis. So you just get a little more squirrely about things like that. But, too, the nice part is it's adjustable. It screws in. So the top of this will actually, the leather threads in. So most of these snaps it's actually that's why I get them from Wazoo because they have them made for themselves.

Tom Nugent [00:38:58]:
I'm pretty sure they have a patent on this. So they actually have the leather threaded in there. So if you want to adjust it or cut it shorter, you just unscrew it, and then you could trim it to whatever length you want. Obviously, you can't add material back. So just cut it accordingly. Don't go crazy. But you can adjust it.

Bob DeMarco [00:39:16]:
You know, I just mentioned your jiu jitsu background. You you've been training in Brazilian Brazilian jiu jitsu for a long time, and you said that that was, you know, part of, you know, a guy that you, train with is the one who suggested you start making knives. So that's kind of the beginning. When you look back from here, how much would you say, is influenced by your knowledge of, that kind of fighting?

Tom Nugent [00:39:42]:
I there actually are certain knives that I make that I just I mean, make. I haven't had the time to make them because I've been so busy and now, like, I'm a one man show. But there's certain models like, this one, which is I call the CF3, which is a karambit style knife. And, it's not I didn't make a karambit to be like, wow, crazy, flippy stuff, because I'm just not trained in that. However, I designed this knife with one of the guys I went to the police academy with. And he was actually in, one of the shooting, and he got shot in the head. And he's still here, so that's good. But the guy was on top of his hips, on top of him on mount.

Tom Nugent [00:40:24]:
He couldn't get to his handgun, and the Perp was able to get his handgun out of his waistband. So he wanted to have something as, like, a pretty much a get off the tool, which is what that would be designed for. You get your finger in there. You know where the business ends go, and you apply and reapply until applying is no longer needed. And then you have space. It's not and also too, it's meant for utility. Because most of the time, I was eating my lunch with this knife or cutting deer out of soccer nets and stuff like that. It's like like the there's stuff you don't think about or even, like, batoning this through car battery cables because you were sick and tired of listening to the alarm go twenty minutes in a wreck.

Tom Nugent [00:41:07]:
Utility knife and defensive knife and the same.

Bob DeMarco [00:41:10]:
Right. I'll hold that up for a second if you don't mind.

Tom Nugent [00:41:12]:
Sure. Oh, that's nice, man.

Bob DeMarco [00:41:16]:
So you you haven't made this one in a while. Is that what you're saying?

Tom Nugent [00:41:19]:
Yeah. And we're working on bringing them back and then hopefully with a variant of it, which, is called the Mokine, and this is actually the smaller version. So that's we'll call them a mini Mokine, and this is the CF three. Same blade profile, but this one with the bird's beak back there. So more of a universal grip, fit more hands, everything like that. But still, when you draw it, you have that hook that you could draw and grab and then still manipulate however you want. And same with a thicker blade stock than what I normally do with the wickets. You've got the swedge up there, that piercing, and utility purposes.

Tom Nugent [00:41:56]:
And this one, we're thinking about coming standard with this ambustyle sheet as you see that. And you could draw it out, just enough to get it and use it. And then, you know, when you're not doing all the crazy flipping stuff, just put it in my hand like a normal person and use this tool.

Bob DeMarco [00:42:13]:
That looks great. Sorry for oohing and aahing while you were talking. Yeah. That's beautiful. I mean, it looks really nice. I really like the blade shape of both of those, both of those knives. But that handle and with the, with that sheath, that's a that's a marriage made in heaven right there.

Tom Nugent [00:42:30]:
We're hoping to have them back. At least get a run of them going, and run of them. I have to make all these things, so I'm gonna sign up at the production facility. I'm gonna be grinding everything. Hopefully, by Blaicha Atlanta, I wanna bring these things back. Because like I said, most of my stuff is, like, hunting, camping, fishing related, but I do have this background in law enforcement and first responders. So it's like, I would like to have this in the lineup still as well.

Bob DeMarco [00:42:55]:
You know, the the one with the ring that you just had out reminds me a little bit of a bird and trout in a in a strange way. Bird and trout knife, except it's much thicker.

Tom Nugent [00:43:06]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:43:07]:
There there might be some sort of a crossover there for you.

Tom Nugent [00:43:10]:
Or Well, you could still use it. I mean, I've taken the bigger version now. This is the Moul King. I've taken this thing camping many a time, which is why there's all the rust and everything up there. Just as not because I wanted to, just to say I did. You know? It's not my go to bushcraft knife. However, it absolutely can. This one is bigger, bigger stock and everything like that, texture in the hand.

Tom Nugent [00:43:32]:
So you absolutely could use these in the field. I mean, I could clean the deal with this thing. It's just not my go to because another thing like edge geometry comes into play here, where this guy is way thicker behind the edge and more stout than, say, like, the Wicked XL or Wicked or and it like a Chickpea or something like that. Because these are designed for knuckle draggers doing stuff that you're not supposed to be doing with knives. Like, my c f three, I we were doing some training, some PCB training in school. Guys on the SWAT team was like, hey. Can I borrow a knife? No. So it's always the hesitancy.

Tom Nugent [00:44:07]:
You look them like,

Bob DeMarco [00:44:08]:
I'm

Tom Nugent [00:44:08]:
not sure about this one, but okay. And then I'm like, sure. And I gave him this one, and lo and behold, he starts crying a shell casing out of the UMP. And I'm like, you know, I have a Leatherman in my bag. You could you could have asked for that. But granted, that's why the tip is still there because it's meant for abuse, where it's not also going to have the same kind of field performance of your hunting, where you want that sliciness and effortless cutting because it's just not you can't like I said earlier in the podcast, you can't have both and you can't have everything.

Bob DeMarco [00:44:41]:
Yeah. But but you guy or you guys, you offer a lot of different things. I mean, you can get thin and slicey. You can get this, thick and robust. You can get big ones. You can get small ones. I know that the the wickets have been, a real big seller, but how how do your bigger knives work? You you held up the big, the big, Oh,

Tom Nugent [00:45:06]:
the big boy? Yeah. The big boy.

Bob DeMarco [00:45:08]:
I don't mean how do they work. I know they work well, but, I mean, how do they work in terms of sales? I I was on your website. I saw a lot of those are many of them, most of them are gone. Are these big sellers, enough that you make them regularly?

Tom Nugent [00:45:23]:
They are. It's just been a a time constraint, because the Wickets and the Wicket XLs have been so popular that I've been focusing on that, and that is actually what is funding all these production runs and everything. Because, like, I wish I one day stumbled into a pile of money. However, I did not. And, so lots of twelve to fourteen hour workdays is what is funding all these projects and everything. And that's why I was hammering down on some of the more popular models. But with production and everything, like, taking some of the burden off of me where it's can get them out there a bit, I can then focus on doing these other models. Like, I've got all sorts of ideas in my heads of things that I wanna bring out that I just haven't had the ability to.

Tom Nugent [00:46:07]:
And we're trying to get back into hunting and fishing land a little bit. Because originally, that's where I really come from, like hunting, fishing, camping background. And Mini Sealand has really taken over a lot of knives, and I don't mind one bit. But for me, it's like I've designed every knife in my lineup for an Alcoratex, not necessarily for what can open up the package the best. Is that you know? It's granted. I'm sure if it could clune a trout, it could probably open up a box.

Bob DeMarco [00:46:32]:
Yeah. For sure. But I mean so this you're you're saying you wanna go more towards the hunting and fishing from this? I mean, this is pretty outdoorsy, isn't it?

Tom Nugent [00:46:41]:
So there's another model that I've released last year, which is called the Grown, which is this bigger full size model. So it's imagine like a chick a chick pea on steroids. I wanted something with a full handle grip, three and a half inch blade, maybe a little bit longer. I'd have to check my own website. But I was actually using the Wicked XL for the past two years deer hunting, and I wanted something with a little skinnier of a blade and that longer, more acute point to do those finer initial tasks and field dressing and everything. But I also wanted something that I could take camping and just have this be the one night. Where you could palm with this thing, food prep. I could probably play a trout with this thing in this style of mine.

Tom Nugent [00:47:24]:
And it's been working out great for me. So I'm hoping to push into some more of these bigger knives by, yet again, Blades to Atlanta. We're actually gonna be coming out with some production versions of this one by then, if the stars align. And, I know I said I mostly do ADC RB two and Metro v or ABL. This one's actually in three v, and I've been playing with some CPM 154. Thoroughly impressed so far. Actually, the first one of this I did, I ground it too thin by accident because it was the first one I was doing. I didn't feel comfortable selling it.

Tom Nugent [00:47:57]:
I took it actually thinner than I have I'll do my wickets. So for a knife this size with that thin of a grind, I'm like, I don't know how

Bob DeMarco [00:48:05]:
I feel about it.

Tom Nugent [00:48:06]:
So I sent it to my buddy who's broken a few of my knives and tested before. I said, do your thing, do your worst, and report back. And he must have baton this thing for a couple hours to oak and everything else and zero ice damage. And I'm like, not that I would take the models that thin all the time, but it's just nice to know that it can do that.

Bob DeMarco [00:48:25]:
And that was the three v, right?

Tom Nugent [00:48:26]:
That was a three v. And I know if I did it in Nitro v, it would have failed because I've taken Nitro v that thin before and it has. ADCR v two, it probably would have held up in that same kind of edge geometry. And not to get all, like, super nerdy and geeky and stuff like that. But I'm just saying, like, it's just good to know that these kind of steels can do that kind of work.

Bob DeMarco [00:48:46]:
Yeah. That's not nerdy and geeky. I know that, like, for out outdoors, knife users, three v has become the, the real premium steel because it's so tough. It holds a great edge. And then but, I mean, really, what I know it for is its toughness. I think, I have two or three three v blades here, and I don't I don't push my blades to the limit, certainly not. But I have batonned a, a three v Bark River knife, quite a bit just through whatever the kiln dried wood is I pick up at the grocery store. And, it does great.

Bob DeMarco [00:49:22]:
I mean, it's really awesome, especially with a convex grind. It just it pops the the little logs in half, you know, pretty easily, and it's like you don't need to just drop it up a little bit.

Tom Nugent [00:49:35]:
It's proven. It's been very proven, which is the same thing with, like, CPM one fifty four. All these steels have been around for a while, and I'm not trying to I don't like keeping up with fads. I like making stuff that works. It's like, you know, one of the things that we've been saying is, like, you know, it's timeless designs with modern precision. We're using stuff that has always worked, designs that will always continue to work, and we're bringing them into the modern world. That just makes sense. And that's why I like ADCR v two, Nitro v or ABL, and now, like, three v because, like, people before me have figured out that these things work.

Tom Nugent [00:50:10]:
I didn't need to invent it. They already did all the legwork for me. And I did my own testing, but it just now it all lines up.

Bob DeMarco [00:50:17]:
I also love 154. That's one of my favorite steels. And and it's been around a long time and it's what a lot of custom knife makers, like to use. I think it's a great balance of edge retention, corrosion resistance. I guess it's pretty tough because you'll see some, smaller fixed blade knives in it as well, but I I just love 154. It's it's great. But let me ask you this, Say three v, for instance. When you buy a three v knife, you're paying a lot more.

Bob DeMarco [00:50:50]:
In your experience, does it cost a lot more as a knife maker to buy it, or is it the incidentals like grinding it, grinding, belts and that kind of thing, that that push up the expense of a three d model?

Tom Nugent [00:51:05]:
It's it's the working of it. It's the labor. Because all these things, even when it comes to the knives, like, it's all labor cost is what you're really paying for. Obviously, like abrasives, tooling, everything else, but it's time. And, that's the most expensive part to load into these things. Like the say if you just were to put the micarta and everything else into a pile and say, alright, that's the knife. It's, like, it wouldn't be that expensive, but you have to then turn that into a knife. And you're also paying for years of experience and years of me throwing stuff in the trash, figuring these things out and learning.

Tom Nugent [00:51:42]:
So it all it's mostly labor costs and stuff like even like a seal, like, magnet cut, which I'm not I just hate grinding it. It is it fights you. It feels like it's pushing back against you on a grinder. It is that's why those normally come with those higher price tags because it's the tooling and stuff. I know manufacturers that don't even like to play around with it because it doesn't play nice with tooling.

Bob DeMarco [00:52:05]:
That's interesting. I mean, that's something we we might tend to forget as non knife makers, that we're not just paying for for the materials itself, but like anything else, we're pay paying for the labor and then the wear and tear on the tools that it takes to actually, you know, make the knives.

Tom Nugent [00:52:22]:
Yeah. It's there's so much more that goes into it. And even when it comes to, like, pricing knives, it's it's actually one of the hardest things to do out of this whole business is come up with pricing. Because it's I wish there was just some kind of formula where a plus b equals c, but it's it's not that way at all.

Bob DeMarco [00:52:38]:
Have you found that people want to pay a certain amount for a knife? Like, they feel like if it's, under $200, it's not worth it or do you run into that that kind of philosophy?

Tom Nugent [00:52:50]:
There is the idea of pricing things appropriately, and I've done a lot of, like, reading and listening to, like, the whole psychological effects of everything. Like, the one of the famous studies is, like, Peloton. When Peloton first came out, it was a thousand dollars, and people thought, oh, this cheap treadmill can't be that good. But then they rereleased it at, like, 2,500 or something. They're like, oh, pretty. It was the same thing.

Bob DeMarco [00:53:14]:
Yeah. It

Tom Nugent [00:53:15]:
was but it had that effect. I'm not saying I do that with my knives. Yeah. But I'm just saying, like, if you price something too cheap, people automatically start looking at why is this cheap? Why is it because there is the whole mindset, which is true for the very majority of things. You get what you're paid for. It is in the hunting efficient way. I'm like, when you buy, like, an $800 fly rod and you've cast it next to a hundred dollar fly rod, you notice the difference. It's it does not fight you.

Tom Nugent [00:53:43]:
It works with you, everything. So you get what you pay for with these kind of things, and this should be the same way with knives.

Bob DeMarco [00:53:49]:
I I totally get what you're saying about pricing products. It's very difficult to do. Not that I have a product. I mean, I've done a couple of, custom collaborations with Hogtooth Knives, And I know what it costs to buy it from him, and then I have to figure out how much I need to charge to make it worth my while. And, I learned from the first time that, yeah, it takes it takes some doing, but I also learned that to make it worth my while makes it more expensive and then you sell fewer. Like, that was my experience. Yeah. But but I you know, that was only two different, little custom knife drop experiences.

Bob DeMarco [00:54:28]:
But, yeah, that was a kind of agonizing decision to make. Also, it seems like naming knives is kind of a difficult thing.

Tom Nugent [00:54:36]:
Yeah. And especially once you start growing and then you have to worry about trademarks and everything, like, even like the Wicket, we originally were gonna call it something like an Ewok. But then I'm like, I'm totally gonna get sued by this. I can't do that. Right. But that's actually for a deep cut. Wicket is the name of the Ewok that finds Princess Leia when I first. So that that's where the Wicket name came from because it was a small, stout little knife that could do a lot of work, and I wouldn't mess around with it.

Tom Nugent [00:55:05]:
And that's why we called Ewok at first, but I'm like, alright. We gotta go deeper so we don't get sued. And that's where Wicket came from.

Bob DeMarco [00:55:11]:
That's awesome. Okay. So you you've been saying we a bit. You work alone, basically. Right?

Tom Nugent [00:55:18]:
Yeah. But Lauren, my girlfriend, has been taking over a ton of the responsibilities. I mean, she's doing a lot of the planning at this point. She's doing certain things like assembling sheets. She's handling shipping and receiving, all the packing up and everything. She's been doing a lot to help me out with that, and we are planning on growing. I mean, right now, it's still all run out of her house, but I'm already looking at shop space. And at some point, you know, employees down the road just to keep up with growth and everything.

Tom Nugent [00:55:46]:
So things are growing, which is great. It's been like I said, it's been a wild ride, and it keeps getting wilder. But that's why when I say we, I'm like, even going to Blade Show Texas, I had no idea where it was. She planned the flights. She did everything. And, when we got to the hotel, I looked at this convention center. I'm actually like, wow. That would be a nice place for Blade Show to be.

Tom Nugent [00:56:06]:
And I she was like, I think that's where it is. I'm like, oh. So it's because I've got so much on my plate. You can only handle so much as one person. That's one thing I learned quickly is to you know, you can't do everything, and you can't be everything. I mean, you can if you wanna stay small. Like, I was talking to Scorpion Six Nies, and he's like, I love the way I do it. He's like, I only have to deal with the water generator and that's it.

Tom Nugent [00:56:31]:
I grind everything myself. I heat treat it in house. I don't have to deal with any staffing, and that's great. And he's like, you can't do volume that way, but he could do it the way he wants to do it. And he's his only bottleneck, if that makes sense for me. Like, I'm waiting on different vendors. I feel like I spent half my days now behind a cell phone or my computer. And then also I'm like, oh, wait.

Tom Nugent [00:56:51]:
I have to go work now to make money.

Bob DeMarco [00:56:53]:
And materials too. I'm sure getting your hands on materials, can be difficult from time to time.

Tom Nugent [00:56:59]:
Managing supply chains has been very difficult. Like I said, if you're smaller, it's easier, but also you can't scale smaller like that. So if I'm trying to keep up with demand and also stay small, it's not really possible.

Bob DeMarco [00:57:13]:
I I I think you're in a a good position for this. So as we wrap here, like, what advice would you give someone who wants to be where you are, who's maybe where you were, five years ago?

Tom Nugent [00:57:26]:
Do a lot of research. Do a lot of research and build a network of people that you trust. Because that, you know, I wouldn't have been able to do any of this if it wasn't for my friends and people that I met along the way. Like, even tomorrow, I have a business meeting. It's we go drinking at a pub. But, however, it's at a pub in the middle of the afternoon with a guy who writes for a bunch of different magazines, another one who does special security services and also works at coal, cracker, bushcraft. Another guy who was a lieutenant of police force, worked for the DOD, has taken every survival course possible. I am going there to show prototypes, ideas, designs, and they help me out by saying, yes, no, change this.

Tom Nugent [00:58:08]:
This is dumb. Don't do it at all. Why don't you make this size for men? You know, those kind of comments. But I wouldn't be able to come out with the designs if I didn't have their help and feedback. Because it's like you need to build a community to help you out. Because like I said, you can't do everything yourself. You need help with these things.

Bob DeMarco [00:58:26]:
Man, that makes that makes a lot of sense because as a creator of any sort, you can really get caught in your own echo chamber. I think this is cool, and I can't take that's that's a huge thing is being able to take criticism from people. And it's nice when you have, friends who will, you know, bust your chops and you know it's all in good fun and they wanna see you succeed.

Tom Nugent [00:58:48]:
Yeah. It's it's all about building a community, and that's that's my one piece of advice. Do a lot of research on your own, but then also build a good network of people you trust.

Bob DeMarco [00:58:58]:
Tom Nugent of Knives by Nuge. Thank you so much for coming back on the Knife Junkie podcast. It's a pleasure, and I gotta say I love your knives, and I plan to expand my collection, but this thing has just really done it for me. I'm I'm so happy and excited with this, as well as the neck knife. You know, I always go on and on about this. So, anyway, thanks again for coming out. I appreciate it, sir.

Tom Nugent [00:59:21]:
I appreciate you, Bob.

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Bob DeMarco [00:59:57]:
There he goes, ladies and gentlemen. Tom Nugent of Knives by Nuge. Follow him on Instagram. It's knives underscore buy underscore Nuge, and, you know, watch for his drops. I know he's changing his model. You know, it's evolving, but you can still buy you know, I I just saw a drop he put on today. So my point is, Ted will, catch up with him, check out what he's dropping, and, watch as, the company expands and his offerings expand. Alright.

Bob DeMarco [01:00:28]:
For Jim working his magic behind the switcher, I'm Bob DeMarco saying until next time, don't take dull for an answer.

Announcer [01:00:34]:
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