Transparent Knives’ Brian James Kim – The Knife Junkie Podcast (Episode 320)

Brian James Kim of Transparent Knives joins Bob “The Knife Junkie” DeMarco on episode 320 of The Knife Junkie Podcast.

Brian has made a name in the knife world and gained much respect for his regrinding and re-blading of popular knives like the Benchmade 940, Bugout and Demko AD20.5.

In addition to regrind and re-blade jobs, Brian makes fixed blade knives under the Transparent Knives shingle. Currently he offers models ranging from small EDC pocket fixie to larger outdoors knives.

Brian has also taken a number of knife makers to task over the heat treating and Rockwell hardness of their blades. Transparent Blades is now responding to a Cease and Desist letter sent by Hinderer Knives for making incendiary and untrue allegations about RHK heat treating of CPM 20CV.

Brian has reached out for help from the knife community, creating a GoFundMe to cover legal costs of the RHK situation.

You can find Transparent Knives online, on YouTube, and on Instagram.

Brian James Kim of Transparent Knives is this week's featured guest on episode 320 of #theknifejunkie #podcast. Kim regrinds and re-blades knives and makes knives under the Transparent Knives shingle. Click To Tweet
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Automated Transcript - The Knife Junkie Podcast (Episode 320)
Brian James Kim of Transparent Knives

Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast.
Your weekly dose of knife news and information about knives and knife collecting.
Here's your host Bob the knife Junkie de Marco.
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast.
I'm Bob DeMarco.
On this edition of the show, I'm speaking with Brian Kim of Transparent Knives.
Brian has made his name in the Knife Modification Arena, especially specifically when it comes to regrinding and even rebleeding some of the most beloved factory knives.

I've seen transparent blades of the Demco 8020.5 and Benchmade bug out that have genuinely moved me and his work on the 9:40 in my.
Opinion completely redeems the model.
Brian also designs the build designs and builds his own line of fixed blade knives, ranging from large outdoors knives to EDC pocket fixed blades.
Now key part of Brian's work is the heat treatment of blades and Rockwell testing of their hardnesses.
But recently this process has thrust Brian into conflict with a well known knife, world stalwart.
We'll hear all about it, but first be sure to like.
Comment, subscribe, hit the notification Bell and remember that you can download the show audio only.

Onto your favorite podcast apps and listen to the show while you're doing the stuff you got to do.
As always, you can go to Patreon to help support the show.
You get exclusive content.
You'll you'll see extra of this interview.
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That's the knife
Do you use terms like handle the blade ratio walk and talk, hair pop and sharp or tank like?

Then you are a dork and a knife junkie.
Brian, welcome to the show.
Hi, thanks for having me on Bob.
Hey it's a pleasure.
I want to congratulate you for.
Becoming kind of the the real bladder to the stars, so to speak.
All all of my trusted voices of YouTube have have been getting your re blades and I've been seeing them.

You send stuff to knife motors I've been seeing your re blades and like I mentioned in my intro I really like what you're doing, especially with certain models that I'm not fond of.
Like the 9:40 you have totally transformed them in my eyes.
So congratulations on your success in in that arena and the and the and the regrinding of blades.
How did you get into this?
Into knife into knives in general.
Or knife making.
Oh yeah, well, I mean knives is like really, it's a really, really short story.

Basically I had a friend in high school.
He looked at some gentlemen's quarterly, like magazines and stuff at the time and people and the magazine said, hey, you know, real real gentleman use or carry pocket knives and he's like OK I'm going to do that.
And so he bought a Kershaw Leek and then he showed it to me and he's like yo this knife is sick and I didn't know anything about knives at the time.
Like you know I didn't.
I didn't cook or anything so I didn't even use kitchen knives.
I had no experience with knives whatsoever, but I I held the leak.
I flipped it once and I was like, yeah, that's pretty cool.

So I I bought a leak of my own.
He had a completely silver one.
I got a black one and it escalated because, you know, once I got the leak I looked it up.
You know, I looked at reviews and people are like well, if you like this you gotta try this too.
And so it was a it was a gateway drug of sorts and I started getting into Spider Co and the Benchmade.
You know eventually got a Chris Reeves Sebenza and.
I don't know if I want to say went downhill from there, but definitely my spending escalated.

I did end up spending a lot of money like I. I pretty quickly bought my first custom, which was an Andre Thorburn.
I forget the number.
It's like L and then a number like he doesn't have like model names, but that's like over $800 knife right?
With like zirconium in it and like you know engraved bolsters.
And you know one question that came to my mind was I was like I appreciate the work right.
I know a lot of work went into this, but I want to know exactly how much work and I want to know why?
Knives cost how much however much they do because it's not very clear if you just join like why is this knife this exact amount of money you know?

Is it like because like you, you as you do more research you find out OK the materials cost this much.
OK. Well that doesn't account for much of the cost of the knife.
So then you start looking at, well, you know OK, if they, if they, if they're grinding higher hardness steels that cost more money, right?
Because you need more abrasives and stuff takes more time.
OK, so that explains some cost for like things like maxima, right?
Like that's why maximum it costs more than S30V, right?
So you know I there was a point.

I reached where I was like one I would like to make my own knives because I think it's cool but two when I make my own knives I want to make it clear to people why my knives cost however much they do.
And that's where the name transparent Knives really started where I was like, I want to be transparent about my process.
I want to show what I do right, like how, how much I value my time like so this takes this much time and I value my time at this much money.
So that's why this cost this much.
And then I did what I call price breakdowns where I say OK, I just list it this cost this.
I spent two hours grinding I spent blah blah blah and I just list how much each part of the process cost.
Add it all up and then that's the that's the total cost of the knife you know or the blade.

Uh, and that that's sort of where transparent and I've started is like I started off with fixed blades.
I had a I didn't.
I've always been very like iffy on like blade design because I think it's hard to make a unique design.
So the first knife I ever made, I called it the typical because I was like it's just a typical knife and I just I made a pun on it.
I spelled it IP, you know, typical whatever, and I was just like look, it's a typical knife to drop point with the normal like curvy handle that's like comfortable for the hand and like like I'm just trying to make a knife here.
I'm not trying to like, you know, make waves in the design world, right?
Like I'm just trying to start out so.

That that knife to me was like kitchen or camp.
I can't decide and that to see that seemed to be the point in that design.
Like an overall.
Yeah, I just like it.
It works as a knife.
You know it's supposed to just be a platform where I can practice the basic skills, like how to make handles or how to shape them, how to grind, how to sharpen like I needed a starting point and fixed points are a great starting point for any maker like I highly recommend if you're trying to make
your first knife.

Do a fixed blade you know, like they're much more simple than all the moving parts of a folder, and you're going to spend a lot of time.
Probably not doing all the elements of a folder very well.
If it's your first try some people just bang it out and just are perfect from the beginning, and those are very lucky people who are very talented.
I am not one of those people, so I just said look, I'm just going to.
I'm just going to make a blank and then slap some scales on and call it a day like that's where we're going to start.
So yeah, well, talent or not, it all takes hard work to to make it work so.
Uh, you know you might have to work a little bit harder without that natural talent, but you know, in the end it's it's who's willing to stick with it.

And and really.
I want to go back to the origin of transparent knives.
The name we were talking about pricing and how do you account for in this transparent model?
How do you account for?
The the intangibles of being a creator might my time as a creator.
My time as someone who or or or this as intellectual property.
This design as my design how?

How does that get priced in?
You cannot just do it by the materials and the machine time.
So like the vision and stuff and the idea right?
Yeah yeah, so I think that's you know to be honest like if it was me and I come out with my first folding knife design and I think it's unique.
I would charge like I would say like this is how much it costs to design it.
Like I you know, like this is mentally how much I think my design like the time I put in CAD or whatever to draw it all out and think about it and make it unique from everyone else is like I would put a number value on that.
The reason I don't do that for real blades though is because I feel like it's not really my idea.

Because I'm not the first person to do a redblade right and when it comes to all the different shapes that I do like, yeah, like some of them are like my own design, right?
That I made up myself.
But some of them are like customers, designs or you know, sometimes sometimes they're just generic designs like a wardcliff is a warden.
Cliff right?
You can't really change it that much.
It's still just going to be a warning Cliff at the end of the day, right?
Like it's going to have a straight edge.

The spine is going to have some sort of like you can change the spine a bit, but.
I I never really thought of it in terms of like intellectual property level.
It's not something I'm big on personally and and this is I know I noticed that this is a big thing in the native community recently where people are very big on intellectual property where they're like hey don't copy my this don't copy my that.
I've never been like that though.
Personally I've had people reach out to me saying, hey Brian, I want to do this thing, but I think it's too close to what you're doing.
Are you OK with it?
And I always tell people, do not ask me for permission like I do not.

Even if someone straight up copied me, I'm not out here complaining about it because it just doesn't matter to me.
I don't know that that's that's my take on it.
I I don't blame anyone who does want to protect their intellectual property.
I'm not saying they shouldn't, but me personally, I just feel like there's so much demand I can't even beat my demand.
You're even close anyway.
I don't see a reason why I need to care.
If someone wants to like do something similar to me, I think when it comes to real blades, yeah, that makes perfect sense to me.

And then when it comes to original ideas and making you know, actually crafting the original ideas or having them made.
To me, that's something different to me and and when I say intellectual property I that's a fancy more of a fancy term than I intend to to say.
I just mean like that personal artistic thing that you imbue that design with that no one else could do.
Yeah, that's that thing that how the hell do you charge for that?
That's always, I mean, that's a quandary.
Not just in knives, but in everything.
The way I think of it is prices are just so high in general.

That that part of it the the personal artistic part and stuff.
I don't need to put a value on it.
That's just what makes people buy my stuff over someone else's.
You know, it's just like an added special thing, but I don't think of it like I need to make profit on it.
Personally, I'm just like, yeah, This is why people like my stuff and they're like, you know, they drop a nice comment here and there.
Like I, I'm happy with that.
You know, that's good enough for me, so we'll describe what it was like the first time you took someone else's knife and and took it to a grinder to to reshape the blade.

You know you and you're going to replace something.
You can always mess up that blank and start from scratch, but sometimes you a knife you know.
What was that?
So I was.
I'm in some discord servers, right?
And so my friends in the discord servers like we're like Brian, you know you do, you?
Do you grind fixed blades?

Why can't you just grind a knife that already exists and make make it thinner?
And in my head at the time I was like, yeah, OK, that makes sense like that.
Sounds simple.
It's really not that simple.
But I was like, yeah, I'll try it.
And so you know, but I was afraid, right that I'd like mess things up because like everyone even like the really talented.
People like Josh at Razor Edge knives.

He's probably the most talented rewinder that I know of, he did, although right, although he doesn't rewind that much anymore because he's busy doing his, you know his original designs now, but but even Josh like if you ask him like he's messed up on customers knives before like no one is like able
to just never mess up right?
Even if you're the most talented.
So I knew that I would mess up, but my friends sent me like some cheaper knives.
You know they're like hey, if you messed this up I'm not going to be mad at you and I was like oh thanks and I also bought.
Deeper knives for the express purpose of just practicing.
And it was.

It was a. It was terrifying at first out, because like I was like, Oh my God, I'm gonna mess it up.
Gonna mess up and I did mess them up.
You know like and that's the thing about grinding is that if you don't go into it with confidence you're going to mess up like it's like I don't want to make it seem like some like spiritual voodoo **** but like you know but really the grinder feels when you're not confident because your hands are
shaky or they're not as steady like you're not applying consistent pressure, you know so.
The the confidence wasn't there.
I messed up a lot of stuff, you know, grounds were wonky or I blew out the edge or something because you know you're getting really thin if you go to.
If you go too much to one side, you can go into the other side right?

And you blow out your edge.
It's doomed, right?
So there are a lot of different ways you can mess up, but I I messed up in all the possible ways, but after a while I was like getting the hang of it, you know.
And and one thing I did, which I'm going to stand by it.
But some people are still mad at me over it I would buy.
Well really rare, like limited edition knives.
Right to up the pressure, you know.

And I was like OK like I'm gonna I'm gonna feel so bad if I mess this up but I'm but the way it was like sort of like simulating like how I would feel if I messed up a customer's life so I so I had like you know a Tashi barucha rowdy right, which is a limited edition knife and I was like I'm going
to try to rewind this and I and I was like I'm going to treat this as if it's a real like you know real life like simulation of what it would be if it was a customer's life.
I killed that knife.
I destroyed it.
But but once it happened, I realized to myself, like you know, there are some ways around this, like one obviously practicing every day, so that happens less and less often.
Yeah, but also just like being clear with customers look, this is an intensive modification process.
Stuff happens, I could mess up if I do mess up.

I'll buy you a new knife if it's a knife that can't be replaced, don't send it to me.
I noticed I noticed on your page it also says nothing over 500 bucks right?
Because it's like I don't want to.
I don't want to pay anyone 500 bucks if I mess it up.
So I was like don't send that to me.
Yeah, Josh Josh at Razor Edge after he he reground one I wanted to send him another one at an XM24 and he's like, Nah, that's too expensive.
I don't want to if I and I didn't think of that up until that moment.

I'm like yeah, of course, because if he messes this up, of course I would expect him to replace it, you know.
And I can understand not wanting to be on the on the rope.
For 600 bucks or whatever it is, and one thing to consider is that most of the time our pricing on regrinds is static and what that means is that no matter how expensive your knife is, the cost of the regrant is about the same, right?
But that doesn't make sense because the risk is higher with the more expensive knife.
It's sort of like how insurance works right when you ship something that's more expensive, you pay more insurance, right?
And that's why when you expect the Postal Office to reimburse you, well, you paid more insurance because you're asking for more back.
But when we do regrinds, you know whether it's a $200 knife or a $500 knife.

I'm charging you the same, but my risk is so much higher so it makes it discourages me from wanting to do that more expensive knife, you know, do you do you?
Does Blade steal type factor into the pricing?
It does, but only in very extreme cases, like the difference between like if it's like Rex 121 or maximum or something like insanely different, right?
Because like if it's like CPM 154 versus like M 390. It's like OK, whatever you know.
Like obviously there's a big difference, but it's not enough that like I really care, but if it's like if you're comparing CPM 154 to Rexel 121, it's like dude are these even?
This isn't even the same task anymore, you know.
So you go through a lot more expendable materials.

And in that kind of thing, it's just the time, mostly the time you know having to go slow, not overheat it.
If you build up too.
And the other thing is like with certain seals, you know if you're like wet grinding, right, which you should be.
You know you don't want to like have it rust or anything you know like because it's you're getting it wet and there's heat from the grinding.
You know that's like starting steels.
Are you you?
You got to be more careful, you know.

And there there's some ways around it, but it's still you got to be the more careful you have to be.
Basically the more tedious it is.
So right, right and and also obviously those materials are more expensive.
So how did the rebleeding come about?
So I have a few funny stories about that actually, so it started out with I'm I'm I. I started out on Reddit.
Reddit is where I you know joined the knife community for the first time.
That's where I got all my initial information recommendations on what knives have to try out.

That's where I learned about Benchmade and Spyderco.
Just read it.
I'm knife club, right?
And there was this person who posted on Knife Club.
This cardboard blade that he had made as a concept and he he was trying to find someone who would make it for him.
And that was what introduced me to the idea of rebleeding and specifically what he wanted was a redblade for a 940 with a Spidey hole.
And so, as you know now Josh from Resurgence actually ended up being the person he chose to make that.

And but you know.
But but that was actually a project that took a long time to actually happen, and you know, every every month or so he would post an update.
Hey guys, I changed the design a little bit.
What do you think you know?
And I would see it because I'm on Reddit and you know other people saw it and they like yo Brian like you should try to do something like that.
You know like that looks really cool like so I started, you know prototyping trying to figure out how do you do rebates right?
How do I get the locked geometry right?

You know that's the main important part.
How do I get, you know the action good and stuff like that.
And then.
And then a certain point, like I finally made a prototype, but you know, because I was just prototyping like I just did his exact same blade shape, right?
And he actually reached out to me.
He said, hey, you know, I mean, this is where you sort of like the intellectual property.
Idea comes in right?

He was like, hey, I really wanted this to be like a special thing that just like that.
Just I have and the people who like joined me in the initial order from Josh.
So I'd appreciate it if you didn't do that blade shape.
Which is why and like.
I don't personally care if people copy me, but if someone asks me not to copy them, then I'll respect it, which is why if you go through all of the 9:40 blade chips I've ever done, I've never done that exact shape that is beautiful.
That one I'm looking at.
I'm sorry to interrupt you, but but right, I get that and and I understand that if he's if he's planning on making it an exclusive small run knife for a small group of people.

Yeah, I get that.
Yeah, he would.
He just wanted to be special and I always thought that was like.
Into them, it's spent months, you know, posting here and there.
Hey, there's this project that I'm like.
You know I'm super passionate about so I was like yeah no problem I won't make I won't do your design I'll just do other blade chips so that's why you know I do a bunch of different blade shapes but that was where I came up with the idea of like wait why do I need to settle for one blade shape when
I could just have a blank that's like a rectangle and then you know just do the lock up and then I can do whatever shape I want by just grinding that rectangle into different shapes because normally when people get.

Cut their blade.
They cut it exactly the way it's supposed to be from the water jet, and I was like, well, why don't I just give myself flexibility and do a rectangle and then people can tell me what they want.
And then I'm just giving people exactly what they want.
You know, like I thought that was such a cool idea to be able to really customize and choose exactly the blade shape that you think would be cool for your 940. And yeah, oh I'm sorry, please go on no, no no.
That was it.
That was it.
Yeah, well I love that idea and and I love the approach too.

It's very sculptural, you know, it's like here's a block of stone.
Carve away everything that's not David.
And and in this case it's here's your slab of steel, you know, show me how you want me to carve away everything that's not your knife.
And and what a great I've always had I just don't like the 9:40 and I the part about the 9:40 I like is the handle.
You know, so you've solved that problem and Jim was just scrolling through your page of 940 rebates and I saw, you know, pretty much to me in my taste.
Pretty much every one of those blades was better than the original in, in my opinion, because the thing about the original that turns me off the most is how oblique the edges.
You know it's this.

It's this EDC classic.
But I'm the one I had did not cut very well and it was sharp, you know.
Yeah, reasonably sharp, but the way you broaden them out and and you know if they look like very thin grinds to me and I don't know.
Do you do you hollow grind knives as well as this?
That's the more recent thing I did.
Learn how to hollow grind recently so now I'm doing it a lot because I'm like addicted.
Once you once you learn a skill and knife making, you can't stop.

It's very difficult like because it's so fun to finally succeed at something and be able to do it.
So I only did flat grounds for a while.
But once I learned how grinding like I've like I, I told you that I had one knife to show this one is a hollow grind.
Beautiful but yeah this oh I have upset yeah so this blade right?
It's hard to show with the light reflecting I guess, But anyway, this one's a hollow grind as well.
A lot of my more recent ones are holograms.
Most of the blades that I'm taking to blade show are gonna be holograms.

But yeah, I started out with block grants, but they're always thin.
That's the main thing is that the geometry is always very, very thin, and it's not because I think that thin is always better than a thicker.
You know, I think robust blades have a place you know outdoors, survival, whatever.
But when it comes to EDC, that doesn't make sense to me, especially in a pocket knife.
I'm like if you really want something robust, you know a fixed blade makes more sense.
You know, certain steels make more sense, which we can get into if you want, but like.
That that's why I grind everything.

Thing is that I think there's so many robust knives out there.
If you want a thick knife, you can buy it from any retail store you know, like there's so many thick knives out there, so I try to cater to the people who have a more what's it called a more specific taste and more specific preferences.
I am interested in your take on steels just the other day I was talking about how it makes sense to me to put super steels on smaller.
EDC knives that get the most use, uh, I I carry those big, robust knives that you were just talking about because I just out of pure enjoyment.
I feel nervous if I don't have one in my front right pocket, but then I always have a slip joint or a small flipper or something else that you know I can pull out at work if if need be, and those are the knives that get the most work, and to me it seems like those are the knives most deserving of
the Super steels.
Because they get used the most and you and and will require the least amount of sharpening.

How do you feel about choosing steels for your purposes?
Well, to add to your point that you just made, I really like that idea because what I think about an EDC, it's typically smaller because it needs to be pocketable and portable, which means that necessarily the blade is going to be smaller, right?
And because the blade is smaller, that means your edge is not as long.
And so if you want a long lasting edge, each section of that edge needs to stay sharp longer, and that's where you're super steels and your heat treats and your geometry tree comes in, because you know, if you have a. If you have a larger knife like yeah, maybe 1 section gets stalled, you can just
use another section for a while.
But let's see, your knife is 3 inches, like the blade is 3 inches.

Like how much edge do you really have?
So you need to make sure every inch of that knife, every inch of that blade is actually going to stay sharp.
You know, for as long as you need it to, so.
And also I don't like sharpening.
Personally, I don't think it's an enjoyable activity, so I I would prefer to minimize how much I have to sharpen.
And having you know those things right.
I'm good steel, good heat, treat good geometry that makes it so I have to do something I don't enjoy less often.

So yeah, So what are the steels you prefer to work with to work with so?
That's that's kind of an interesting question because I. There are a lot of things are easy to work with, right?
Like CPM 154 RW 34. Those are popular with customers or sorry with custom makers because they're easy to you know machine easy to grind, easy to you know.
Hand rub and finish and so that's why people like to work with them.
I don't think about it in those terms though.
I like to think about in terms of what is my customer going to enjoy the most right?
I don't care about me.

If I need to put in more work, then I'll charge more money.
What I care about is what is the thing that I can make that is gonna make the person I'm making it for the most happy and that's what I enjoy working with.
So for me that would be stuff like it's typically going to be hard high carbide steels.
I like steels that stay sharp for a long time.
Take very keen edges and can support a thin edge.
There's a lot of misconceptions I think in in in the knife world which Lauren Thomas, the PhD metallurgist, he's slowly debunking those.
And, you know, educating people more on on how things actually work, really.

But yeah, like what one of the main things is that people always talk about?
You know toughness versus like being chippy and stuff like that and I never like that because whether you're a knife rolls or chips damages damage, you don't want it right?
Like I don't understand why people are like I'd rather have it roll.
I'd rather have it chip.
I'm like dude.
Either way you have to resharpen it like it's not gonna cut either way.
So to me the damages damage what I care about is the size of the damage because that determines how much I have to resharpen, right?

How much material they have to remove.
And then the other thing I care about is is what is known as edge stability and edge stability is the combined you know factors that are involved in minimizing both chipping and rolling, right?
So it takes both of those factors into account, right?
What will minimize both of those things?
And that's what I care about the most.
And one thing that's important to edge stability is hardness.
You need to have sufficient strength to support a very thin edge so you know, let's say, like a knife is more likely to.

Role right when it's when it's softer, the role will sometimes if it's soft enough, be bigger than any chip you could have made right?
So that's why I consider it to be worse.
Just because the size of the damage is so much worse and sometimes people say, oh, if it rolls, you can just hone it back to yeah, that's that.
That's that's kind of what you naturally think.
Like, oh, it's better to roll because at least the material still there and you constraint, well, you're not going to be.
It's like you think your you take your paper clip, right?
And you bend it and you bend it again and you bend.

It's getting weaker and weaker and it's going to snap off eventually.
That's that's how roles are in a sense, right?
You've already basically, you know it's already basically messed up, like it's fatigued.
You're not just going to fix it, and like you know it's not going to be brand new, just can you bring it back over.
So what?
Well, what OK. So what have been the most requested steals then?
If it doesn't matter in terms of working with it, I'm guessing it's the Prestige steals M390 Magna cut I'm sure is a big big one, you know?

Speaking of Larrin Thomas, but what?
What are people ordering?
What do people like the best?
So in terms of what people ask the most?
Because I don't always have steals in stock like in my shop, but what people ask for the most one is definitely magnet cut.
Just because you know hype and it is a good steal.
I really do like it.

Two would be stuff like people want stuff like SDV.
They want stuff like they asked me for ZDP 189, but I don't know how to get it, so I can't offer it.
They asked me for things like Rex 121 just cause like they're like I want to go all the way, you know?
And then the most the most asked for steel, which unfortunately is hard for me to get because you have to order it in such large quantity is vanex.
That's probably the most popular steal that people ask for, and it makes sense because Van Ex has that you know the cool doesn't, you know, doesn't rust factor right?
And it also has very very good attention and you know one of the appeals of van next to me in a production capacity.
Which is why I wish it was more popular and more like available.

Is that bad?
Actually caps out at 61 HRC, which sounds very low, right?
Like that number does not sound very high when you think about like, well, maximum, it can get to like 6970 HRC.
Why would I want a 61 HRC steel?
And that's because the HRC value means different things for each steal.
So you know 61. It's not like 61 HSE.
Maxima is going to cut the same as 61 HE van Axe because that number means different things for different steels.

Explain so the heart.
So the hardness is like when you when you take an indent of the hard like or I should start from the beginning when you use a Rockwell hardness testing device to test how hard a material is, it makes an indent in the steel and it measures how deep it penetrates right?
And all that's telling you is giving you a macro view of how hard it is.
But it doesn't tell you the microstructure of the steel.
It doesn't tell you what specific types of carbides have formed in the steel right?
Because obviously the chemical composition of these steels is different, so they're going to look different under a microscope.
And those little differences matter a lot.

So for Ventex, it's actually very.
It's pretty.
It's pretty like the edge retention is pretty freaking good.
Like for like you know for 61HR C steel like it's it's actually going to cut really, really well to put it in perspective.
And I think this is probably the best way to like explain it to people who aren't familiar with like edge retention numbers, and you know comparing them.
Let's say you know you're looking at like S 35 yen.
Just some normal S 35 yen, right?

And that's a pretty common steal.
People like it.
If a tea treated decently at a in a factory, it'll cut per inch about like 140 hundred fifty 160. You know around that ballpark feet of cardboard.
You're some good vanex at 60 to 61 injury that can cut like 343 sixty like almost double right, but it's also completely more corrosion resistant than 35 yen.
And it's pretty tough.
You're not going to notice really a difference, unless you're, you know, using it like a fixed blade, like in a more robust setting where you're like subjecting it to impact and so it's like it's tough enough for you to use.
I've never seen anyone complain about the toughness of annax, but you get that really good edge retention and that super cool.

You know, corrosion proof factor, which is like.
Any time something is 100% anything?
Yeah, it's cool right?
Well, what what's the catch with vanex?
There's gotta be a compromise there.
It's so they're well there it's just like it's not that there's a catch per se it's more just that the balance is so good of the factors.
There's really not that many compromises, which is why I like it so much as well, and probably why it's so popular is like you you consider like banks to like something terrible, like 8 CR 13 MOV.

There's no catch.
There's no, there's no situation right there, where eight CR is better, right?
Just overall worse.
And so vanness is overall better than a lot of these steels, so all right.
So you you were talking about heat treating.
Obviously that's a big part of what you do in the rebleeding and and I don't know, maybe even in the regrinding.
Do you reheat?

Treat, I don't reheat, treat it's reheat.
Treating is a lot more annoying than people that people know really, I would imagine it would be a lot trickier.
Yeah, please do so there are.
There is one person I know who has done reheat treating before, and that's canine Switzerland who was like one of the most knowledgeable people in the knife industry.
You know, he's actually been like asked, like you know.
How Boulder is a manufacturer of steels he's been invited to bowler to like help them work on steels like he's very knowledgeable on these subjects and so he can do that kind of stuff.
Me I'm good and some of the complications are.

Let's say you haven't.
Let's pretend this is a factory knife, right?
It's already ground.
It's already heat treated well.
First I'm going to have to anneal it right?
Take it back to its soft form, right?
And that's a lengthy that takes a lot of time.

But then when I reheat, treat it.
I have to make sure that since it's already ground, it won't warp right because what the thinner something is, the more likely it is to warp heat distribution and you know the different rates of cooling, especially for a hollow grind like a thin hollow grind like that's 100% going to warp unless you
know some special techniques to make it not warp.
The other thing is that your blade is probably the exact thickness it's supposed to be already, right?
So when you when you reheat treat it, you need to make sure that you don't need to remove any material because sometimes you get things something called decarburization.
Which is when the, UM, the carbon on the surface of your blade reacts with oxygen in the atmosphere and basically you're losing carbon to the atmosphere, and so the surface of your blade becomes softer.
And that's not something that we want, and so you need to find ways to minimize that as well.

So there's it's not only a time consuming process, but if you mess up in any part of it, then you've messed up the blade.
So it's like it's it's.
Yeah, I don't know.
I think it's actually sometimes.
Cheaper to make a whole new blade than to reheat.
Treat one and stuff.
Yeah, it seems tricky, complicated, risky, and I I don't.

It might not be the same with high carbon steels like like the makers use on forged in fire, but I do know that heat treating and then reheat treating can be probably, you know, troublesome to to grain structure.
And who knows how you might Jack that normalize and stuff?
Yeah, there's there's definitely more processes.
I don't know all of them.
I've never been interested in learning though, just I'm like I'd rather just make a whole new blade.
Like, right?
I don't.

I don't want to like start tinkering with something else.
You know, so you've done Rockwell testing of manufacturers blades?
Yes, that already exists.
Tell me about that, yeah, so.
The reason to start this actually.
So first of all, I used to send out my own knives to be heat treated, which a lot of people do.
I used a company called True Grit and they and.

And there was actually a little bit of drama about this.
It's it's its own whole story, which to summarize basically.
One time I sent in a batch and it came back and I I test because I didn't have a Rockwell tester at the time.
The only way I could test my knives in any capacity was through primitive means.
And so one thing I would do is something I called the hammer and bolt test where I would hammer the edge of the knife into a bolt at a specific geometry and just see how it holds up.
And and I see like and then like you know, based on having done it to so many knives, I sort of had a ballpark idea of how knives should perform on the test.
One time I got my knife back from heat treat, I hammered it into a bolt and the knife folded inside up like this.

Entire area folded up into the into up all the up here.
And I was like that is not a proper heat treat.
Something went wrong, right?
And you know the reason it became drama is because I reached out to the heat.
Treater, I was like yo you messed something up and then they didn't want to read like reimburse me blah blah blah.
But whatever that got settled that's fine now.
But what I learned from that is I need a way to instantly verify whether or not my knife was he treated properly.

And one of the best ways to do that is to test the hardness right?
So I invested in a Rockwell Hardester, which is the same one I used today.
It's a grizzly G9645 for anyone who's wondering.
It's the same Rockwell hardness tester that Blair and Thomas uses, for example, and I was just like, OK, Now I now I can test my hives right?
And I also got 2 ovens to heat treat my own knives because I I I don't like outsourcing, I've had a lot of bad luck outsourcing like people just let me down.
You know I'm paying them.
What they asked me to pay them for the service and then they don't deliver and I get frustrated.

You know, I'm like I wish I could just do this myself.
You know, I wish I could just heat treat my own knives, test my own knives and anything that happens it's my fault so I can't be mad at anyone but myself.
So I got into testing other knives because people started saying, hey, you have a hardness tester.
I want to know how hard my knife is.
You know, I'm just curious so people started sending me knives and it's such an easy test to perform.
I didn't charge anything for it and I still don't so but I I would test people's knives and this is around the time when the whole Lion Steel controversy was happening is around the same time I got my hardness tester and stuff like that.
If you're familiar with that whole thing.

Lynn Steele know I was thinking of.
Who was it?
Well, it was like when Steve, the Super Steel Steve was calling out someone I can't remember who it was.
Maybe it was lion Steel.
Yeah, there.
I mean, there were definitely more than one company involved in that, but this is around two or three years ago when people are finally starting to realize that hardness matters.
And so we people are.

Third parties were testing other people's knives and finding that companies were not delivering on what they were promising on what was advertised.
Which is problematic because I mean, well, that's just, you know, it's just natural right?
Like false advertising is never a good thing, so that was the point at which I was like.
Yeah, like you know, if you guys are, if anyone who's in this discord, or you know in the community, wants to send me their knife and pay me to ship it back like so.
I'm not going to charge for the service of doing it, but you just pay for shipping because shipping adds up if I'm paying.
If I'm if if if 12 people send me their knives and I pay $10.00 each to ship it back, that's 120 bucks.
So I was like look.

Pay me shipping right and I'll test it for you, right?
And as I kept testing more and more knives, I kept seeing this knife is not inspect.
This knife is not in spec, you know.
And I was like why?
Why are these knives not what they're promised?
Did you see this across a broad range of brands?
Yes, and also more specifically with certain steels like M 390, right is a big one that is very commonly done poorly and you know.

And I you start noticing.
Friends like and at the end of the day, the only company that never really let me down like like big production company was Spider Co, which is actually why I made a video today.
Like talking about all the things I like about Spider go on my Instagram page.
I was just like yeah, like Spyderco good company like they're actually delivering, you know.
Actually that's the irony.
They don't tell you the HRC.
Spider code does not tell you the HRC range, they just quietly do a good job.

Whereas other companies are like we do it to 60 to 62 and then it's not 60 to 62 and we're just like what like so well what happened with Hinderer's Rick Hinderer knives.
So this is just a normal day in my life.
At least I thought it was going to be.
So I I actually really like hinders designs.
I've talked about them, I've owned hinders before several or sorry I've owned one hinder before and and handled or tested several and so one of my customers actually, who's really really nice and really generous, said hey, I know you liked the XML 18. I don't have the exact version you want because
I wanted to specific version with a fuller and no flipper but he's like so I don't have the exact version you want, but I have a pretty cool one and I'm willing to give it to you as a gift for free just because you know I had a good experience.
With you buying a redblade and I just want to, you know, do something nice for you so he gave it to hinder for free.

God that's and I was like dude I was stoked right?
I was like Oh my God like that is so awesome right?
And then I used it for like 2 months and because I had tested so many hinders before, I just assumed that it was going to be in spec because all the other hinders I've ever tested were in spec.
They were all around 60 HRC are like slightly below like 59.8 which is in spec.
Because they're spec is 59 to 61, so I did not test this one for like 2 months, but as I kept using it I was like yo this is not staying sharp like I was like.
This is not cutting like I I've had other hinders.
I've cut with other hinders.

This is not cutting like my other hinderers that I've tested.
You know so I said OK. Well I'm going to try sharpening it right because sometimes you have burnt edges right which is you know he belt sharpened so that's always a possibility.
You can overheat the edge, fatigue the steel so it doesn't cut as long.
So if you sharpen it.
You remove the bad steel and expose good steel so it's OK to sharpen it.
OK, sharpen it still doesn't do well.
And then I was like, OK, well, that's clearly not enough.

So I tried other things I tried, you know, regrinding it and that you know.
And obviously you know regret it getting it thinner and changing the edge angle will change performance because geometry is a huge factor in performance.
But I'll still like this is not like my other hinderers so you know, I test when I tested it, it was it came out to the first Test was 58.6 and then I tested it like a bunch of other times.
The average was 58.8. And then that's like the lower end of his spec.
Cause 59 is 61 is suspect, so 58.8 is like basically the same as 59. And so I said on Instagram I was like, OK, I think I figured out why it's not performing a small right.
It seems to be on the softer side, right?
And I posted like look, I said I said a bunch of things like I said, like personally, I would prefer if you know he just used other seals because like it's a it's a. It's a it's a hard use knife.

Like you said, these bigger robust steel or knives.
Are hard use knives.
That's what they're marketed as.
So if you're going to have these hard use knives, I don't understand.
Using a high carbide steel that's not very tough, right?
So I was like so I was like either run it harder so that I can actually cut things or use a different steel so I can like beat on it and have fun with it right like but like right now I can't do anything with it like it's just not a fun knife for me to own even though I got it for free, which is

I was just like look like I'm not that happy with this one.
I and then what happened is so I posted that and then I posted this all the time.
Like I just posted my results.
I just go OK. This is the result.
Like I move on with my life.
But what happened that made me really angry was that hinder had his shot manager, whose name is Sam or something like that post on the official Facebook group that no one should trust the results referring to me of someone who's like has an uncertified uncalibrated hardester.

And I was like, whoa, like where did that come from like like because I'm like you don't even know he said he doesn't even know who I am.
So I was like how do you know my heart assessor isn't calibrated or certified?
But you know, if you don't cause he said to people he's like I don't even know this guy.
So I'm like you can't just make that claim and try to delegitimize the test result without even knowing who I am or knowing if it's actually true.
So what I did is I posted an angry message.
Basically what I did is I showed a calibration and then I also showed my certification papers.
And I said, look like I have the papers to prove that my hardness tester is calibrated like that.

It reads properly.
And I so I gave proof right and I was and I was really upset.
So like I said some things that I don't stand by today like I called him a garbage maker because I was so angry.
But I apologized.
I was like, OK, I don't mean you're actually garbage maker.
I just think you're a bad person.
But but essentially that's what happened and I was very upset and it became, and it became a big deal because people were like Yo Rick, you can't just say things.

Without any proof and then not apologize when proof gets presented right, like he made a claim, he said I was unprofessional that I used an uncertified uncalibrated tester and then in the face of proof that none of that was true, his response was OK. I'm going to send this guy a seasoned assist.
And that's when things really escalated, because at this point, like now, he's threatening a lawsuit, right?
Because that's what it said in the letter, he said, look, we're taking this very seriously unless you make this apology video stating this and that like we're basically we're going to sue you.
And I was like, well, first of all, I personally thought I deserved an apology because he said things about me that weren't true, which I proved weren't true.
So I was like, wait.
Why am I the one who needs to apologize so?

But The thing is, like I'm poor I I work in my parents garage.
As you can see and I can't afford a lawyer.
So I started to go fund me and I just said look, anyone who wants to, who cares about this?
Here's a go fund me any funds is going to be spent on a lawyer so that I don't have to apologize to hinder and and any money that is not spent on the lawsuit or or on is not spent on.
You know, responding to hinderer.
We'll go to charity, right?
That's how we'll do it.

So I'm not profiting in any way from this.
I literally just do not want to apologize to hinder.
And be forced to say things that I don't believe are true, and that's what it came down to.
But it became a big deal because you know, it's it's an example of someone who couldn't take criticism because you know there are other companies.
Like I said, I've been doing this for two years.
It's this is not my first rodeo right, so other companies have always acted so politely and so graciously that I was shocked.
That hinders response because like if to give an example I-11 of my friends sent me a we knife.

I don't remember the model because this is before they gave knives names, but the post is still on Instagram though if you if people want to look it up.
But it was like a 60 something was the number of the model.
And it came out soft, so we found out about it right?
I told we I was like look this knife that my customer sent me to test is really soft and they said oh, we are really sorry about that.
Send it back to us and we'll send you a new blade that's properly heat treated that's that.
Was their response?
Good response?

Yeah, that's that's the best response, right?
Fix the problem and apologize.
That's it.
Everyone was happy.
Everyone said.
Good job we we move on with our lives, right?
And that's that's how things work.

Like the mistakes happen, Lemmons happened.
I even said all the other hinders I tested were fine, right?
They were in spec even though I don't like the spec.
Personally, they were inspected.
At least they were what was promised.
But instead of apologizing he attacked me and then threatened a lawsuit and so people had an issue with that.
That's that's a kind of gangster I I remember he did a a cease and desist against someone who was making scales.

I think it may have been RC bladeworks or someone.
I do recall something like that couple of years back the same thing, cease and desist and it was because he was making scales that had the had the pattern texture.
Yeah, that texture and.
I don't know how that was resolved, but to me.
He makes a knife.
He started a company making knives, who's whose entire reason for being was for their customization.
You know, make make your X M18 your X M18, but I think he meant only with the certified only from from me.

So OK, so he sends you this cease and desist letter.
What does that mean?
That means you have to stop talking about it.
What does that mean?
So what it is is it's basically a warning, but a very formal legal warning with a deadline.
So the deadline was actually yesterday where he said look.
Basically the implication is if you don't.

Agree to our demands right?
There are three demands.
If you don't agree to our demands and you know make this apology video before May 17th or on May 17th, then we're going to take legal action against you.
That's basically what the letter means.
And so yesterday, because that was the deadline I sent my response letter to hinder and I I hired a lawyer using the GO Fund me money to write the letter.
It it it was.
It took a lot of time not going to lie like I had to like go through all my old posts like take notes to explain things to the lawyer.

Not all lawyers are nice people, so I was like look, this is what a hardness tester is.
This is what happened.
This is why the test is objective and not like you know subjective in any way.
And I explained all these things to my lawyer and her conclusion was that everything I said is protected free speech and that I hadn't broken the law in any way and so I don't have to agree to any of his demands.
So that's essentially what I responded.
What the response letter which is about four or five pages that was.
That's what's in the response, which is public for anyone to read.

And now now it's just some to hinder, right?
You know he whatever he responds in the next two weeks or so, we'll find out, right?
You know either he drops the case or he decides I hate this guy.
I'm going to sue him.
You know, anything could happen, but yeah, it just seems like it's it's.
It's a bummer to hear to me because he's one of my knife heroes, you know, and and and to me people like that he he does not stand to lose anything.
Uh, from you you're not biting into his market share in any way you might be showing that one of his knives is a lemon, and you might even show over time that there's a pattern.

But that's his problem.
That's not your problem.
And and to do this kind of a a bluff charge?
Or maybe it's not a bluff, but to to charge you like this is it's really kind of bully tactics.
It leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.
As it did with the with the scales, it's just people celebrating your knives.
Oh OK, he might be making you know $10 profit off the scales he makes for your knives.

You know, maybe you can charge him a big.
I don't know.
Just seems a little thuggish.
It's it's interesting because you can come what I do when I when I try to judge something as I compare it to other people's behavior.
So you look at demco for example, demco makes a knife that's popular right?
The 8020.5 and he loves it when people customize them right?
He shares you check his Instagram, his stories.

He's always posting customized versions of the 8020.5 that people send to him or tag him right?
Like this is someone who clearly cares about the community.
Loves that people enjoys product and loves that he's supporting the aftermarket as well, right?
Like he's literally, I believe he's literally said like a been quoted to say.
I'm happy that people are modifying the knives like that.
They can, like you know, buy scales that they want on their knife, right?
Because all that really does.

If you think about it is increase demand for his product.
Because if some people don't want the 8020.5 because it's in grivory they don't like plastic but you can get it in titanium.
You can get it in carbon fiber.
OK, now I want one right so it actually increases how many people want his knife and he's a smart guy.
So like he, he understands that it's not someone stepping on his toes.
It's someone actually, just, you know, participating in the same market but side by side, not against each other and enhancing his brand.
That's what they're doing for for free.

They're enhancing his brand.
And you know that the.
The thing about like a demco I I have like I showed you before the the the sharks foot which I I I always say it's a it's a face only a mother could love I think it's an ugly blade.
I love it you know and I, I I I'm very fond of the Demco brothers and and everything they've done and I have most of the cold steels they ever created and I like that attitude you know whereas the the other just seems I don't know it seems cheap and and defensive and.
He could be enhancing his brand instead of a sullying his his reputation because a lot of what I hear from people when I talk to them on this show is so much is about relationships with makers you know.
These relationships are ongoing and makers tend to benefit from them when people who are buying from them are patient.
Because you're cool, a lot has to do with personality.

No, I and I think you're really you are buying the maker like you are buying when you buy a knife.
You're not just buying an object, you are literally buying a part of that Maker's vision.
What they stand for of you're supporting what they stand for, right?
Because you're obviously paying them money, so you know that it's it's a big thing.
And so you know.
That was The funny thing is that.
There is there is this whole like ohh you've caused me damages thing right?

Because like people are angry at me now but I was like no people are angry at you because of how you handled it, not because there was a lemon because everyone has lemons like there's no company that doesn't have lemons.
My favorite company Spider Co can have lemons too, right?
That just happens, but you know, even as recently as like a couple days ago I tested my arcane design crawler and it was a little bit soft.
And how they responded was look I first I contacted Besteck right because I think Besteck is responsible because they make the knife right.
They're the OEM and they said Ohh sorry we'll do it.
We'll immediately do an investigation, right?
And I'm like, OK, that's all I wanted to hear you know I just want to hear that you care I wasn't I didn't ask for a refund I didn't ask for replacement I just want to hear that you care right and then actually the designer, Israel also reached out to me and just said hey, you know if there's

anything I can do to make it.
Way or to fix things for you like let me know and everyone was happy to hear that right?
Because that that shows people he's someone who stands behind this product.
It shows people that he actually cares about the customer and people were like yo this is someone I want to support.
Like when bad things happen in life.
These are opportunities to show your true colors absolutely so you know.
I saw it.

I saw Israel's response to you, and it was all class.
It was like, geez, sorry you know, let me know how I can hook you up.
Do you want another knife?
You know, I'll look into it and you're like, no, it's all good.
I just want to let you know and I'm glad you care, yeah and that's it that's all that's all you ever asked for you know.
So I think I think people can learn from this.
It's a learning opportunity for all makers that you don't need to attack people if you just if you just, you know, treat people like humans and just be like reach out and just you know, say sorry that this happened.

Let me fix it.
People aren't going to be mad at you like I, I don't think there's ever been a situation where someone has complained about a problem.
The Maker reached out and said I'm so sorry, let me fix it and do whatever I can to, you know, make this right.
I don't think everyone's ever anyone's, ever responded, saying I hate you.
But you know what?
People are pleased.
It makes you know people are happy to see when someone, especially someone who who might even seem beyond reproach, makes a mistake because we all make mistakes and we all feel like idiots when we do.

And it's and it's how graciously someone handles it afterward, and so in a sense, it's.
It's like it's almost nicer to see Israel's response to that letter than to never have had a soft bladed knife, because now we know how how he is in a crisis.
Or how he is in a situation where where he needs to put out a fire.
He's gonna do it calmly nicely and he's not going to go on the attack.
I mean, that's yeah, that's what I say.
You know you you you don't know who's going to stab you in the back until the zombie apocalypse happens, right?
But once it does happen, like that's when you find out like so it's nice to know you can trust someone before right, like before things happen to you because yeah, sorry no, no no, please I. I feel like there's a lot more I want to talk about and.

We'll do a little, uh, a little extra here for the for the patrons, but sure.
One thing I want to bring up quickly.
Which is an issue.
Kind of parallel to this, and that's something that happened with this knife.
Those goose works that I love and and famously happened with Jake Hoback, which is this.
Making knives elsewhere.
And then maybe not saying that they were made in the United States, but not correcting people when they say the knife is made in the United States.

So I'm just kind of bringing it back to the beginning.
When you talked about transparent knives and being transparent, what is your take on?
On some of these American companies who who are at least lying by omission, yeah, my position on lying by omission is very, very simple.
It's the same as just lying, you know?
So to give an example of this, like one thing that I do is when customers notify me of a problem, I always say I'm so sorry, let me fix it right and then out of respect for me, my customers choose to keep it a secret.
In other words, they don't put me on blast for it because I fixed the problem.
But my response to that is not to say the problem never happened.

I put myself on blast for it.
So if you go through my Instagram anytime there's ever been an issue that I've discovered because a customer told me about it.
I make it public, I say hey, this customer reached out to me and said they had this problem.
If anyone else had this problem let me know, I'll fix it right?
I want people need to be proactive.
That is what the truth is.
Truth is proactivity.

So if you're just allowing things to, you know, be secret.
Allow people to think there's no problems.
To me, that's the same as lying personally.
So you know, like recently, like I'm not happy it happened, but it happened, right?
Where some of the bug outs replays that I did had a lock failure.
And spine whacking?

So I was like, OK, that's a clear problem, right?
So first of all, I told the customer, OK, like I will give you a full refund or I'll make you a new blade.
First of all, right?
But also let me go ahead and post on Instagram letting other people know that this happened to you just in case it could happen to them, right?
Because I don't want anyone to have an unsafe knife, so I encouraged my customers.
I said yo, if you have a blade for me, go ahead and spine, whack it, and if it fails I will cover it.
Like that that's being proactive.

That's yes, that is, you know, not trying to say oh, if people don't notice the problem, it's not a problem, it's a problem.
Whether or not people notice it well, it that will always be in the back of your mind.
When is this going to come back and bite me if I exactly like?
I mean, to speak totally selfishly, but second of all, I mean that could be a real issue.
You know it's a knife and and presumably you you make some damn sharp knives and to have something like that fail.
Could be, you know, could really change the course of someone's life.
So right it's like how do you sleep at night knowing that something you made might hurt someone because you haven't told them the possibility that it might fail, right?

And you don't.
No one wants to say buy knives might fail, right?
Because like that doesn't look good, right?
Like you people want to be perfect.
People want to be able to say my knives never failed.
But guess what?
Like it happens right?

Even riot.
Which is like this the the gold standard of production knives.
They have recently had knives.
With lock failure.
Right, so like and so it's like it happens to everyone, and so instead of being ashamed of it, just be a step ahead of it and just say, hey look, I'm aware that this has happened on one or two, which means it could happen more than one or two times, right?
Check be safe.
Check your knife, give it a couple of light taps if it.

If it's fine, it's fine, right then there's no problem, and if it's not fine then I can fix it for you and then it won't be a problem anymore, right?
So that that's how I think about it.
So lying bio mission just as bad.
Like just as bad as just normal lying.
Personally, I I agree.
And as a matter of fact, I think it looks worse in the end when you're outed it looks worse because it's obvious you're I'm not lying.
You know it looks like obfuscation because that's what it is.

And The thing is, you know I'm gonna I'm gonna call out Jake Hoback here the thing that really sticks in my craw is that all of his knives, you know, have a solemn quote Psalm 23 on it, you know.
And he quotes the Bible.
It's like, well there.
There are a couple of things in the Bible that maybe you need to pay attention to.
First, you know, like truth and being truthful and and not lying to your customers.
But that's a conversation for another time.
Brian, thank you so much for joining me on the Knife Junkie podcast is really interesting to find out about you and also about what you're.

What you're going through.
The tribulations of this business and I find it very interesting and I think people can can glean a lot from it.
Yeah awesome, yeah I had a lot of I had a lot of fun actually being on.
I just like talking about knives so yeah, well, that's what we're here for.
Thanks so much, Brian.
And take care Sir, thank you.
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I've been talking a long time about trying to find someone to regrind my ZT0452 CF sinkovich and I saw he has one on his page and he did an awesome job.

So I think I found someone to regrind that awesome knife and actually make it a great cutter.
Anyway, that's neither here nor there.
You'll see that when it's done right here on the Knife Junkie podcast, be sure to join us on Thursday night for Thursday Night Knives.
10:00 PM Standard Eastern Standard Time right here on YouTube.
This book and twitch.
And also, if you like the show and you wanna support it, go to the knife until next time and for Jim working as a Switcher and his magic.
I'm Bob DeMarco saying don't take dull for an answer.

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