The Knife Junkie Podcast is the place for knife newbies and knife junkies to learn about knives and knife collecting. Twice per week Bob DeMarco talks knives. Email Bob at theknifejunkie@gmail.com; visit https://theknifejunkie.com.
©2025, Bob DeMarco
The Knife Junkie Podcast
https://theknifejunkie.com

Transcribe Your Podcasts and Videos: https://theknifejunkie.com/magic (affiliate link)

Announcer [00:00:03]:
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast, your weekly dose of knife news and information about knives and knife collecting. Here's your host, Bob the Knife Junkie DeMarco. DeMarco.

Bob DeMarco [00:00:16]:
Welcome to the knife junkie podcast. I'm your host, Bob DeMarco. On this edition of the show, I'm speaking with Zeke Johnston of the Alaska Blade Studio. Zeke hails from Soldatna, Alaska on the edge of the Kenai National Wildlife Refuge where he and his wife run a custom knife shop, forging blades for wilderness enthusiasts and knife collectors everywhere. His knife models range from rugged but refined kitchen knives and EDC fixies to Damascus Hunters and heirloom worthy bowies and belt knives. Each knife, whether forged or stock removed, is one of a kind and highly labored over, reflecting the Johnston's attachment to the land and legacy of Alaska. We'll meet Zeke and learn all about the Alaska blade studio, but first, be sure to like, comment, subscribe, hit the notification bell, and download the show to your favorite podcast app. You see, that way, you can listen on the go if you can't finish it right here.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:16]:
Also, if you wanna help support the show, you can do so by heading on over to Patreon and seeing what we have to offer you there. Quickest way to do that is to go to the knifejunkie.com/patreon or scan the QR code on our screen. Again, that's the knifejunkie.com/patreon.

Advertisement Announcer [00:01:33]:
The Shockwave tactical torch is your ultimate self defense companion, featuring a powerful LED bulb that lasts one hundred thousand hours, a super sharp crenulated bezel, and a built in stun gun delivering 4,500,000 volts. Don't settle for ordinary. Choose the Shockwave tactical torch, the knifejunkie.com/shockwave.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:54]:
Zeke, welcome to the show, sir.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:56]:
Thank you so much, Bob. Good to be here.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:59]:
It's a pleasure. Well, I I wanna ask you all about how you got started in knives and find out about your history with knives. But first, I wanna talk about where you're from, Alaska. I've spoken to a couple of people, not not that, in the recent past, who are from Alaska, and it seems like a a a country unto itself. Tell us a a little bit about what it means to be living in Alaska.

Bob DeMarco [00:02:26]:
Well, thanks, Bob. Yeah. So I was actually born here in Alaska. I'm not native in the ethnic sense, but I'm native as far as my birth year. So it all, kind of started out. My parents were living in a, a small community called, Seldovia. It's, has a Russian name. It's actually pronounced Seldovaya.

Bob DeMarco [00:02:48]:
And, my mom went into labor with me and, my my parents were loaded into the the doctor's, little bush flame, and he flew across what's called Kachemap Bay to a, a small town called Homer, Alaska. And, I they say I was born something like twenty minutes later. So, that's kinda how I got started as an Alaskan. And, yeah, I would say that, being an Alaskan, it's it's a relatively rugged life depending on where you live. There's a lot of individualism, and it's, Alaskans tend to have a pretty, I would say independent mindset, but also really, really quick to help. So, yeah. It's, kind of the mindset of, like, you stay independent. There's also, along I guess I would say unpacking that a little bit.

Bob DeMarco [00:03:42]:
Kind of the the mindset of being self sustaining is is very important. So whether it's hunting and fishing, having a wood stove, that sort of thing.

Bob DeMarco [00:03:53]:
It's funny that you say self sustaining, I think self reliance. On this show, you know, we've been talking about knives on this show for the well, for six and a half years, going on seven years. And, it comes up in conversation sometimes. What is it about knives that, that just draw people to them? And oftentimes, to me, I come back to self reliance because that was something, my grandfather used to talk about, and that's where I learned my love of knives. And, even though I live this suburban slash urban lifestyle, probably very different from yours, I still love what knives represent in terms of self reliance. So talk a little bit about that.

Zeke Johnston [00:04:38]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So, one thing I'd like to tell people is, knives have been around, depending on your kind of view of the age of the Earth, I I would say, somewhere about five thousand years. We you know, if you look at at the biblical text, it says, a Tubal Cain was a forger, where he was the instructor of all men in bronze and iron. That's, I think, Genesis five twenty two. So as far as, like, the history of knives, we know Tubal Cain was was forging, iron back in the day, and so they've been around for a very long time. But then if you look at kind of the kind of the more modern aspect of of metalwork, but specifically blades, you see that, no matter a person's, status in life, kind of no matter their their economic, bracket, so to speak, or or their ethnicity, people are all using knives. I I would say it's the most kind of widely distributed, tool in existence, and and we've been using it for thousands and thousands of years.

Zeke Johnston [00:05:53]:
So, very, very common tool, I would say, to kind of the the more modern mindset. They're also very kind of misunderstood as as far as the kind of the intricacies of and mechanics of how cutting works, of how, how your basic knife works, and then and then definitely how it's made. Fortune Fire has helped a lot with that, as far as kinda getting a little window into how it's made. But but even then, you're you're really not, necessarily getting the the intricacies of it.

Bob DeMarco [00:06:26]:
I love that you brought up that, everyone, no matter their, socioeconomic status or their place in the world or their almost their place in history, everyone uses knives. And the only other thing I've heard, kind of, described like that is caffeine. Caffeine long before coffee was popular. Yeah. You know, caffeine was in tea, and it was it's always been something that has, you know, driven people in one way or another. Something that has always been used, whether whether you're a teetotaler or or a you know? No no matter what your lifestyle, people go to caffeine Yes. And and always have in one form or another. That's very interesting.

Bob DeMarco [00:07:11]:
I happen to love coffee, so that's why it popped to mind. Yeah. But there's something universal, and there aren't too many things in life that are that universal across, you know, all cultures.

Zeke Johnston [00:07:23]:
I agree. I agree. Yes. It's a it's a a really fascinating thought. It's a really fascinating thought and, and it's something I think I don't know. I don't know if it's just that it's kind of ingrained in us as humans to be fascinated, with with I I say edge tools. That's kind of a broad term. NICE specifically.

Zeke Johnston [00:07:43]:
I mean, ever since I was a little boy, and my wife and I have two boys, and it has not taken them long to have a have a love for for for knives. Something very fascinating about, a forged even a non forged, blade, an edged edged weapon or tool.

Bob DeMarco [00:08:02]:
Yeah. And and so you mentioned weapon and tool, and it is both of those things. And, of course, the the, the, category of tool is so broad. Yeah. You know, it can be used for so many things. And then, of course, weapon, we're talking defending ourselves from things that are wild and things that are human. So a massive deal. Tell tell tell me how you yourself, decided that knives were your thing and, bring us through your history leading you to deciding that you wanted to be a knifemaker, for a living.

Zeke Johnston [00:08:39]:
Okay. Yeah. Absolutely. So, so I was raised in a little town from ages, six to 14, a little town south of where my wife and I currently live. It's called Nemilchik. And, when we lived there, we lived on a I lived on a, 60 acre homestead. It had a really old house that was added onto two or three times. Part of it was log cabin.

Zeke Johnston [00:09:06]:
Part of it was, like, frame structure, and had a 30 story acre hayfield out front. And so great place for kids' imagination. And, I'm actually one of, nine brothers and sisters of or one of nine kids, I should say. And, I was homeschooled and, and I think it was just, you know, between Lycos and my love for reading. I'm a voracious reader of all different, types of books and topics. And, and and in that, I came across books, mostly fiction about, like the medieval period. And so I'm reading these fictional books, and I'm getting more and more fascinated with, all kinds of medieval weapons. But, of course, the ultimate medieval weapon is the sword.

Zeke Johnston [00:09:54]:
Right? And, and a close second, daggers and that sort of thing. So I was fascinated by that. And but but what's interesting, Bob, is it never really entered my mind that I could make them. So, one of the magazines I picked up when I was a a kid was, windless seal crafts, which I I think I don't know today what it's like, but I wanna say it may be kind of attached to, is it Atlanta Cutlery or something like that? And, so I'm looking through their catalogs and I'm seeing what they're calling battle ready swords. I think most are made in India maybe. But, I was just I was fascinated by it. It was hard for me to stay focused on my schooling because of my kind of obsession with, with blades. And, fast forward to when I was 15 years old, we ended up moving further north up the Kenai Peninsula from the Nilcic, to a town called Kenai, where my dad took other other work.

Zeke Johnston [00:10:55]:
And, at the local, he was actually actually became a pastor. But so which is kind of integral to the story because, a boy at the church I became fast friends with. And, interestingly enough, his dad was making knives. He was he was doing stock removal. He was just, you know, cutting and grinding from old chainsaw bars and circular saw blades. And so I'm over at this kid's house, like, on the weekend, and he starts showing me these not just smaller knives but also, like, swords and stuff that his dad was making. And, maybe not as defined as as, you know, what you see in the the market today of the handmade, but it was the first eye scene and I was I was thrilled. I couldn't believe his dad was actually doing this.

Zeke Johnston [00:11:42]:
And so that kind of planted the seed, in my little mind that I could do this. So as a 15 year old kid, I bought probably the worst tool that I could have bought for for making knives, which was a a bench grinder, not a belt grinder like you see by me, but a stone wheel, bench grinder. And I started, cutting and grinding old chainsaw bars and circular saw blades and not knowing anything about heat treating. But with that in my mind that I I with the thought in my mind that I didn't wanna overheat the seal, right, as I'm as I'm shaping it. So I made a lot of stand in Scandinavian ground knives, which, I I guess I would say they probably they have their place if if built correctly, but I don't really consider to be the, how do I say this while being really flight, to the Scandinavian grind. If they're made correctly, they're a great blade. But there's some real specific things that have to happen for that that blade to work properly. And I was not doing it right.

Zeke Johnston [00:12:47]:
I'll put it that way. I was not making them correctly. I think maybe my knives would cut off butter, but other than that, not so much. So I'm 15 years old. And then fast forward a couple of years, actually, fast forward, I think it was three years, and we had moved, just, to the town that we lived in right now, which is only fifteen minutes away from where we were living at the time. And, in the house where my parents where I lived with my parents, there's a wrought iron handrail. And there's, there's some flat, flat mile steel stock that the the fabricator had had used in making this handrail. And and I got the idea, like, I'm making this Bowie knife.

Zeke Johnston [00:13:34]:
I'm doing stock removal on this Bowie knife, and I wanna do a curved d guard. I wonder how the guy made this, like like, made the curlicues in the in the handrail. So he happened to live just down the road, and I went down. Long story short, I didn't have the the tools that I needed for making, the curved d guard, but he put me on the stint of a local bladesmith, whose name was Gordon Dempsey. And Gordon was described to me, by so this this fabricator put me in touch with our local community college, the welding instructor there. And he described Gordon, who I ended up meeting, as a forging dictionary. And so I think he gave Gordon my number, and Gordon ended up calling me. And, I remember my first conversation I asked Gordon, I said, you know, here's the big question that I have is how do you cut steel? And I remember Gordon telling me a big hammer and a lot of fire.

Zeke Johnston [00:14:28]:
And I said, yeah. But, like, when you need to cut off the stake, what do you use? And he said, a big hammer and a lot of fire. And I think he was kinda trying to impress in medium, kind of the kind of the beauty and fascination of of the forged blade. And, and that was kind of where my journey began. So Gordon took me under his wing. I was about 18 years old, and he taught me how to forge blades, how to grind blades thin so that they actually cut, how to heat treat blades so they hold an edge well, and, and how to solder guards. I don't solder guards currently, but, but how to solder guards and, and then finally how to make, leather sheets. So that was my acceleration into, bladesmithing.

Zeke Johnston [00:15:15]:
And, from that point, it became a very curious hobby. My wife and I got married, August will be twelve years ago. And, it was kind of our dream or kind of became our dream that I would build lives full time. And then five years ago, right about five years ago, we bought a house that we currently live in. My shop has actually it may look bigger than it actually is. It's a single bay, two car garage. But it's perfect for, for bladesmithing because knives aren't very big, and you don't need a whole lot of room to do it. But it is a dedicated bladesmithing shop, and, and that was my both me and my wife's understanding when we bought this house, or when we bought a house that it would need to have some kind of a a workspace, for me to build knives in and and do it full time.

Zeke Johnston [00:16:11]:
So it's not an easy business to be in, but we, we dove into it and acquired, tools. And, and the knife making, dream became a reality in that regard. So

Bob DeMarco [00:16:25]:
Well, I wanna I wanna we're gonna talk about the business in a while, and I wanna ask you about your wife. But before we get there, well, couple of things. First of all, Windlass Cutlery is still around.

Zeke Johnston [00:16:36]:
I mean,

Bob DeMarco [00:16:37]:
they do some OEM stuff for cold steel for some of their larger, less expensive fixed blade pads. And I have them, and they're awesome. But that's just a side note. But I love what, your mentor, Gordon Dempsey, told you and kind of repeated lots of fire and a big hammer. How do you make knives? How do you shape them? And, because sometimes you mentioned Forged in Fire. My wife and I watch that show. We've seen probably every episode. And we both we both cringe at two things.

Bob DeMarco [00:17:06]:
One of them is when someone tries to heat treat in water, and the other is is like, haven't you seen the show before? And then the other is, when someone, forges out a billet and then cuts the shape, like, of the tip, say, cuts off a you know, clips it with an angle grinder

Zeke Johnston [00:17:27]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:17:27]:
Or the cutoff wheel. To me, that's no longer now you're starting to stock remove.

Zeke Johnston [00:17:33]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:17:33]:
You you might you may have forged your billet, but you're not fully forging that blade. Tell me a little bit about the philosophy your philosophy of forging a blade.

Zeke Johnston [00:17:43]:
Absolutely. Yeah. So, cutting the tip tells me too. When I see people cutting the tip instead of forging the tip, if if it's homogeneous steel or, you know, non non forged welded steel, not Damascus or, you know, non laminated, steel, If you wanna cut the tip, that's okay. And you're not gonna see it and it's not your I I personally, Bob, don't look at at that, as as cheating necessarily if it's a homogeneous steel, blade. If if you're if you're working to produce a piece as efficiently as you can and you and you hop at the tip on a homogeneous steel blade, that's okay. I think that's, that probably is is not allowed in the realm of the American Bladesmith Society. Definitely with forged blades though or sorry, with forged welded blades like Damascus.

Zeke Johnston [00:18:36]:
If you're hot cutting the tip, then your pattern just looks like it runs off the end essentially. And, I take a lot of pride all my in my dam all my Damascus blades and a lot of my non Damascus blades. So every single one of my Damascus blades and, but a large portion of my non Damascus blades have the tips forged in. And it's really neat because when you look at at my blades or other Smith's blades, you can see that the pattern actually compresses along the edge and then flows up towards the tip. So if that were not the case, you would you would be hot cut, and it might you might see the pattern bend just a little bit where the Smith forged that kind of what you would call a kind of the tanto, the what I call an American tanto, kind of that hard turn. You might see it just curve up a little bit and then the rest of the pattern will kind of run off the end. So, yeah, it's it's like you got to the point in which you forged the Damascus. Why would why would you ruin it by by not forging in the tit? So, yeah, I think that's very important.

Zeke Johnston [00:19:46]:
But, yeah, so the kinda what I like to tell people is I think, I I like to say that Orbea doesn't necessarily make a better blade, but it gives the maker so many more options, for creating blades. And it also the only thing that it does too is it gives you a far more efficient use of the materials that you're using. And, and you know, there's just there's something something ancient and bugable about the forging of hot steel. There's just there's nothing like it. And, so yeah, it opens up so many more options. I think the thing that is most exciting to me about the forged blade is the fact that I can, that I can forge weld all kinds of beautiful patterns. Like right now, I'm, working on a kitchen knife for my wife and it's Go mod, so it's five layer. It's got, a core of ABCRV2 steel.

Zeke Johnston [00:20:53]:
And then then sandwiched around that is some fifteen and twenty and then to the outside is, a jacket of mild steel. And all three of those have different characteristics and and it's it's gorgeous. I'm working on grinding it now. But if I if I didn't forge, if I couldn't forge well, I could purchase some of that steel and I could grind it in shape, but it yeah. Forging and forge welding just opens it opens up a whole new, aspect or a whole new world, I guess, I would say, in the the knife making realm.

Bob DeMarco [00:21:28]:
Well, there's there's, you know, I mentioned cutting cutting the tip in with an angle grinder. What about, what about pounding out or or forging forge hammering, the bevels?

Zeke Johnston [00:21:41]:
So I do that for sure, especially on my larger blades. So it kinda for me, it kinda depends on what exactly it is that I'm doing. So if it's a smaller blade, the overall thickness of the blade is, well, maybe, like, half or a third the thickness of, like, a large chopper, for instance. And so what I'm gonna do if I'm forging a smaller blade is I'm gonna have, I'm gonna definitely forge out the profile of that knife, and then I'm gonna drop the tang. But then on a larger blade, like I have a topper here that I just for finished forging yesterday afternoon. Something like this, it's got a spine of about a quarter inch, about a quarter inch thick. And it's definitely got the bevels forged into it. So that reduces the amount of grinding that I'm gonna have to do to the blade, when I go to rough grind it, which is the next step for this knife.

Zeke Johnston [00:22:44]:
And, so yeah, when I go to rough grind it and then do the finish finish grinding after I heat treat, having the bevels forged in, certainly makes not only does is it an efficient use of, of the steel, but it makes it a whole lot easier for me. Personally, I like to have kind of an even distributed amount of fun in each aspect of knife making. And, and so I can forge. I can take a day or several days and do a bunch of forging. And then I'm kinda done doing forging, and then I'm off to grinding. I do a bunch of grinding, and then I do a bunch of heat treating and and, kinda depends on what I have lined up. But, yeah, I would say for four gs and the bevels, it definitely makes makes it easier when it comes to grinding.

Bob DeMarco [00:23:30]:
So are you saying that you work in a batch sort of way if you're working on several knives? You do all of the forging in one run, and then and then you do all of the grinding for all of those blades in another and kind of

Zeke Johnston [00:23:42]:
That that is my tendency. Yeah. So it kinda depends. I do so we're a custom knife shop, so we take custom orders. And Canada, there's a wide variety of what we do. So, without getting too much into the business, to answer your question, you know, we'll get just homogeneous steel knife orders, and, like, say, a little everyday carry. And then we get, like, a Damascus Chef's knife. And those are two very, very different knives, as far as size and shape and the materials that are being used.

Zeke Johnston [00:24:21]:
And so maybe I have to forge weld a billet, you know, for the chef's knife, and I have my non Damascus steel on hand. And so so kind of depending on what I'm doing, I'll select, like, well, what knives do I have, ordered that I need to make? And then I'll forge, like, blades that are kinda similar, you know, at at one time. Or, yeah. It all kinda depends, I guess, I would say, on what I wanna put in inventory and what are the custom orders that need need to get done. But, yes, I I tend to forge several all at once, and it it makes kind of the most efficient use of my of my propane, my gas forge. Yeah. So that I do a lot of forging while the forge is hot.

Bob DeMarco [00:25:07]:
Yeah. I I I have a number of different creative processes in my life and, you know, I I flex in and out of them. Work is definitely, there's a lot of creative stuff, but I tend to like to work in batch format. You know? Okay. I'm gonna do, like, work, for instance. I'm gonna do all of my editing across these several videos.

Zeke Johnston [00:25:27]:
Mhmm. And then

Bob DeMarco [00:25:27]:
I'm gonna do all the color correction, and then I'm gonna and to me, like, I like coming up with that process, figuring out how that's gonna how that's gonna work. So it's interesting. And then when I was a studio artist, and someday I'll get back to that. Okay. Yeah. It was it was a smaller kind of process. Always have a couple of paintings going at once, and I'm kinda working on this part of the process at once. Oh, neat.

Bob DeMarco [00:25:50]:
And, yeah. I don't know for my for the creative mind to kind of you can really, soak into that.

Zeke Johnston [00:25:55]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:25:56]:
So on your on your website, you have, these beautiful chickadees, and the these are EDC fixed blades Yeah. And, they're very pocketable. And and I don't know, I I want you to show as many knives as you have around you

Zeke Johnston [00:26:12]:
Okay.

Bob DeMarco [00:26:12]:
As we're talk as for illustration. So you're talking about but I also understand that this, Chickadee EDC EDC fixed plate, it's a different process. Show us one and and tell us how it differs.

Zeke Johnston [00:26:26]:
Okay. Sounds good. So here is, this is our Chickadee model. It has got a three inch blade of, water jetted, ADCR V2 steel. And you can note the the hamon, the quench line in it. So these are these are all hollow ground, and they have a ground finish, just 400 grit. And then then I axed them in ferric chloride. And, because they're because they're small, they have, kind of a, thin spine thickness.

Zeke Johnston [00:27:03]:
I don't taper the tangs like I typically do on my larger full tang knives. But, yeah, these are just such an awesome, practical blade. I tend to tell people that for, like, a skinny knife because, you know, there's a lot of hunters and stuff up here in Alaska And obviously throughout all the lower what we call the lower 48. He's gonna say the lower 48. In case people don't know, that's what we refer to you guys as. It's the lower 48. It's not derogatory, I promise. It's just a reference.

Zeke Johnston [00:27:35]:
So there's a lot of hunters, and and, when you get I tell people if you get past, like, four inches per blade length, for a thinner, it starts to get too big. And I would say for your kind of your everyday carry knives as well, much past people are gonna disagree because they're it's a kind of personal preference, but anything much past like three inches, maybe four inches at most, it starts to become kind of unpractical for your everyday cutting tasks. So, I designed this chickadee and, as kind of like the perfect, everyday carry fixed blade knife. And you'll notice that it's got almost a spear point blade. I don't think I would call this a draw point, although the point does drop. But it's got kind of a spear point blade, which I find to be really practical for, just all kinds of everyday, everyday carry uses. So when I'm like, with what I'm doing when I'm in my shop, I'm, like, opening packages. I'm, I'm cutting string.

Zeke Johnston [00:28:49]:
I'm cutting leather. In fact, with my chickadee, I'll wick it up on you know, I'll make sure that the edge is really nice and razor sharp. And then I use it for cutting out my, seven to nine ounce leather. So, think somewhere around eighth of an inch or thicker with my chickadee and it goes through it like butter. I mean, you know, when I touch up the edge a little bit, it goes right through it. So this is like kind of like the practical fixed blade knife in my opinion. And then there's also people that like them for, like, a bird and trout knife. There's a a friend of mine who owns a lodge up here.

Zeke Johnston [00:29:25]:
It's called All All Alaska Outdoors Lodge, and, and they take people on ptarmigan hunts. And so I'm actually gonna get, him a knife, him a chickadee, here pretty soon. And they're just, just a super practical knife. So the as far as the, as far as how the water jetted knives are made, they're cut out. It's our design that I have sent off to our steel supplier, and they cut out the profile and the pinholes with, high pressure water that contains an aggregate, which enables the water to cut, through the steel. And what this does is it, it kind of provides us with the option of building a knife at a little bit lower price point than our forged blades because we can just grab a blank, and here I'll show you what they look like. This is what we get, comparing the, you know, the the finished one with the with the blank. This is what we get when we order, the water jetted Chickadee.

Zeke Johnston [00:30:31]:
And so you can see it's got the pinholes, and then it's got a couple of extra holes for, for a couple of reasons. One, it lightens the blade just a little bit. And then two, it allows the epoxy to communicate from one handle scale to the other. And then I also hollow grind the tang, on both sides, which lightens the blade and allows more room for the epoxy. And then the pins are mechanically connected. They're eight inch pins. They look like they're more like threesixteen of an inch. If you've got a highly calibrated eye, you can tell that in the video.

Zeke Johnston [00:31:06]:
But that's because they're they're upset, with a ball peen hammer and it helps it provides a mechanical connection to hold the handle scaled on in addition to, the epoxy. So, so yeah, these are wonderful little blades. And the fact that we get them water jetted, allows us to produce them much faster than if they were forced. And then we've also got, we've got several other, water jetted models that we provide. We actually have one that I haven't built recently. This is just the blank, but this is our Pathfinder design. It's what we call a, a combat utility knife. And this was a collaboration, with a local, kind of like like a tactical, shop.

Zeke Johnston [00:31:55]:
Some friends some good friends of mine that owned that and I collaborated with them. And this is a really stout, combat utility knife with a five inch blade. So another water jet design. And then, and then we have kind of a larger version. Actually, how about I show you just to show you the blank let me show you, what we call our Chinook model. This is this is not sharpened, if you can see. So I'm holding the sharp edge, because it's not sold yet. But this is this one's actually available on our site, but it's got a four inch blade.

Zeke Johnston [00:32:30]:
And it's right I think it's the exact same spine thickness as the chickadee, but, it just provides a four inch blade option, for, for that person that wants something like a chickadee but in a in a drop point, what I would consider a drop point design, and a little bit, little bit larger blade. But same thing, not a tapered tang. But, yeah, just extremely comfortable in the hand. And I love 80 CR V2. It's, it's an excellent steel type. And, these blades are hollow ground and and given a superior heat treat, what I call a superior heat treat. In other words, maximum edge holding ability, but because it's a high carbon steel, it allows for easy maintenance in in the realm of, like, sharpening.

Bob DeMarco [00:33:22]:
So do you do you, I mean, I understand the the, the water jet. I know a lot of, forgers of fine knives also make water jet, have water jet models, and and it's a great way for people who love your designs, but maybe aren't, up for getting a fully forged, knife to to get one of your knives. It's also a great way for you to move more knives. I'm curious about the heat treat. Do you heat treat them the same way you heat treat a forged knife?

Zeke Johnston [00:33:57]:
I I do. So, as far as so when I can I break down what heat what I the way I see heat treating just for a minute?

Bob DeMarco [00:34:05]:
Great.

Zeke Johnston [00:34:06]:
So, the forged blade, it goes from being forged where you're inducing all kinds of terrible stress into the blade. You're shaping it, but you're actually being pretty cruel to that steel because you're you're bending it repeatedly as you're forging the shape. So you're you're bending it. You're you're you've got your billet of steel, you're bending it this way as you're working it. You're forging in the tips. You're compressing it really hard. And then you're forging in the bevels as you draw it out, as you draw out that edge. And then you really you really disturb the steel when you start forging out the tang by drawing out that little nub at the back and then stretching it out into a nice substantial, either full tang or hidden tang.

Zeke Johnston [00:34:52]:
And so there's all kinds of stress that you're inducing into the steel. Obviously, you're heating it to where it's at a plastic, in a what we call kind of a plastic state where it's malleable with a hammer. But you're inducing all kinds of stress into it. And so because it's a because of the forging, you wanna reduce, the stress in the blade. And there's a couple of different ways, to do that. Now on forged and fire I'll just reference it because everybody knows knows about it. On forged and fire, they have, a lot of guys do what is called normalizing. So they'll heat the blade in the forge.

Zeke Johnston [00:35:26]:
It's supposed to be heated. Not too critical necessarily. There's some debate as to whether it's okay to bring it all the way to critical or or if you should bring it right up too critical but not actually enter, you know, not let the blade austenize, which is what the steel is doing. That's what we call this, austenizing, when it reaches critical. And so anyway, they bring at least near critical temperature and then they'll let it cool while the guys are trying to hurry it up. So they'll swing it around. So they're kinda like trying to air quench it while reducing the stress in the blade. And so if you normalize, you should do two to three different normalizations.

Zeke Johnston [00:36:04]:
So basically, in the forge, bring it to your critical, and then let it cool to room temperature. And that's supposed to reduce the stress. But what it doesn't do is it doesn't make the steel what I what I would call and others call dead soft. And so, well, you can grind it more easily and you can still probably drill it okay. It's not as soft as it could be. The way that I was trained, with bladesmithing is to anneal. And annealing is basically heating the blade up to close to critical temperature and then submersing it in some kind of an insulating medium. A lot of guys will use vermiculite because it won't combust when you stick that that, like, 1,400 degree blade into it.

Zeke Johnston [00:36:50]:
I use wood ash now, and that works really well. The guys like, Murray Carter, if you've heard of Murray. Yeah. You know yeah. That's right. You you know who Murray Carter is, I believe. And, he uses, I think it's rice straw ash or something like that, and that's which is traditional for for guys who are, doing, Japanese bladesmithing, the, you know, traditional method. And, so basically, all it does is it just insulates the blade and it it reduces the stress in it by cooling over a longer period of time.

Zeke Johnston [00:37:24]:
And to kind of visualize it, I like or kind of bring it home for people to understand. I like to say it's it's very similar to you've been out and you're working hard all day. Say you're landscaping around your property or something. And you've been digging, you've been moving rocks, you're pushing wheelbarrows full of dirt and you come in and you're you're wiped out and probably it's gonna be like that. Maybe later that day or the next day, you're really sore, your muscles are tight. And so what's the solution? Well, if you have a hot tub, you go jump in your hot tub, right? And you what do you do? You sit there and you soak and the heat penetrates your muscles and it causes your muscles to relax. And it kinda reduces that stress in your body. And that's very similar to what, to what annealing does is it reduces the stress.

Zeke Johnston [00:38:12]:
And so you have to do that with I say you have to, it's highly recommended you do that after a forged blade. It also makes the next steps in heat treating much easier. So that's kind of the longest step to explain is is the normalizing or annealing. Next is is hardening. And with hardening, you bring the blade up to critical temperature, and, and steel is going through this transformation phase. And so the molecules are agitating and basically they reached a point in which it's kind of like I feel like to describe it as like a crossroads where you can either go right or you can go left. And, so you can either take that blade at critical temperature and you can anneal it by insulating the blade and letting it cool slowly, or you can quench it in some kind of a quenching medium and you're cooling it very rapidly. You're driving down that nose turbine by agitating that blade in the quenching medium.

Zeke Johnston [00:39:10]:
And you're essentially freezing the molecules in that austenized state and you're transforming that steel to what is called untempered martensite is the molecular structure of it. Fancy way of just saying the steel is really, really hard. And if you drop it on the floor, on a concrete floor, point down afterward without tempering it, it's gonna break the tip-off. It's like almost like glass hard. It's very, very hard. And so that's that's the hardening phase. And then you wanna move from the hardening into tempering. And tempering is essentially just heating that steel, to a temperature in which it begins to soften.

Zeke Johnston [00:39:52]:
And what you end up with is an if you do your heat treating properly, you end up with a blade that's extremely hard, but you'll be able to sharpen it and it's going to hold its edge. And it's also gonna be really tough if the Smith does his work right. And so steel, your basic high carbon steels begin to to soften at about three forty degrees. And, I do, like, a minimal tempering to my blades and their toughness is, basically based upon how much of the blade that I can mention, that sort of thing. But those are the that's kind of the process of heat treating in a nutshell. I like to say heat treating is a house and inside it inside the house are three rooms. You've got annealing, you've got hardening, and you've got tempering inside that house. And so, where, the water jetted knives heat treating process is a little bit different is I don't have to do the annealing.

Zeke Johnston [00:40:56]:
There's no annealing or normalizing that I have to do. But I do have to do the hardening and I have to do the tempering. And, so if you look at forging as basically just shaping steel with a hammer and fire, some some people let me just add this caveat in. Some people believe it's actually, adding quality to the blade. I don't tend to see it that way, at least not the way that I'm, working my steel. But if you look at it, it's just like forging is is basically just shaking the steel. And then the heat treating is where the steel comes alive. So whether it's a forged blade or whether it is a water jetted blade, you're kind of I'm I'm breathing life into that blade, if you would.

Zeke Johnston [00:41:43]:
And, and that's where it becomes what we call live steel.

Bob DeMarco [00:41:47]:
That's why every that's why so many people say that

Zeke Johnston [00:41:49]:
the heat treat is the sole of the blade. Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:41:52]:
You know, I think that's Yeah. Kind of a dramatic way of saying that, but, it sounds like annealing and tempering are kind of the same thing except at a different part of the process. Is that

Zeke Johnston [00:42:03]:
fair? Yeah. They're very, very similar, Bob. They're just, it's just that tempering is done at a significantly lower temperature than annealing it. So but it is. Yeah. It's the same process of, I guess you could say, stress relieving. Yeah. Yeah.

Zeke Johnston [00:42:19]:
So very similar in principle. Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:42:22]:
We could all use a little kneeling in our own lives. I

Zeke Johnston [00:42:26]:
totally agree. Right.

Bob DeMarco [00:42:27]:
Alright. Do you do you have any forged blades you could show before we move on to talking a little bit about the business and and how you go about that?

Zeke Johnston [00:42:35]:
Yes. A forged finished blade? One that's finished? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So here I have, this is a it. A seven inch, fighter? So it's kind of a I don't know. What do we wanna call this, Bob? It's kind of a clip point, sort of.

Bob DeMarco [00:42:55]:
I would call it I would call that a clip point, personally.

Zeke Johnston [00:42:58]:
Yeah. I mean, I guess I should know because I made it. But sometimes designs blend a little bit, you know? So, so, yeah, I would I would agree it's a clip point, and, and it's flat ground and hand sanded. And it's got a handle of Alaskan moose antler, and I gotta show you this side because it's got some nice character here in the handle. And then often moose antler will have some of this paint or kind of a a light purple sort of that that is on the inside of the horn. It's just beautiful. And then the hand or then the, the spacer is black micarta. And then, of course, the the guard and shim and hand are are brass.

Zeke Johnston [00:43:44]:
And, this blade, I forged. That wasn't scratches on the blade. That was just kind of the oil on the blade. This blade, I forged from a leaf spring and, and then if you note the edge quenched, steel is pretty amazing. It will it will tell you stories. And and what this the story this tells is that there's chromium in this steel. I knew that there was, but, you'll typically get a much softer hemoan, when you've got chromium in your steel. So, like your October or October, your your super simple basic carbon steels or even W2, which I think has a little chromium in it, you'll get this really, really distinct quench line.

Zeke Johnston [00:44:31]:
And with your higher chromium steels, you get a very soft, quench line. So, yeah, this is a really beautiful blade. I love this one. And maybe I can just show you, a couple of others. Let me, here is a here's a very simple forged blade from ADCR V2, kind of a slight drop point. The handle is Hawaiian Koa. And, yeah, just a very beautiful piece. Hand forged, hand sanded, and then ashed.

Zeke Johnston [00:45:07]:
I I like to dash all of my all of my blades.

Bob DeMarco [00:45:11]:
Let's see what's before you put them down, let's see both of the sheaths of the of the knives you just showed.

Zeke Johnston [00:45:17]:
Absolutely. So, my sheaths are, seven to nine ounce, cowhide leather, and they are hot formed, in liquid Harrison wax. So this is really interesting. If we listen close, we can hear this go into the sheath.

Bob DeMarco [00:45:40]:
Yeah. It locks in.

Zeke Johnston [00:45:41]:
It locks in, and that's because of the hot Harrison wax dip. So each of my knives are, the sheaths are are truly handmade as well. And, and, yeah, they're they're hand stitched. I stitch them with a harness needle. And so they're very much a custom fit to each each knife. I gotta show you can I show you one more? Yeah. Please. So this is a filet knife that I just finished.

Zeke Johnston [00:46:13]:
This has got an eight inch blade, Damascus.

Bob DeMarco [00:46:18]:
Hold it real still.

Zeke Johnston [00:46:20]:
See if I can show off the Damascus a little bit there. And then, the flexibility of this knife is let's say, extremely flexible. Yeah. Our our, filet knives are, probably the best you can buy. I mean, they are they hold an edge extremely well. I, actually, I don't know if I showed that side of the handle very well, but,

Bob DeMarco [00:46:48]:
That's Moose antler.

Zeke Johnston [00:46:49]:
This is Moose antler, right. This was going out the door in the next couple of days. It was a custom order. So, I have a my friend who I mentioned who owns Alaska, who owns this lodge, near here, he, he took a fillet knife down to Costa Rica and he filleted a snapper. And I was not really familiar with snapper until, are you familiar with snapper? The fish? With the fish?

Bob DeMarco [00:47:19]:
The big red it's a big red fish.

Zeke Johnston [00:47:21]:
Right. Yeah. And and their their scales I'm getting ready to drop a video on our YouTube channel really soon of him filleting with it with this knife because their their scales, the snapper scales are almost like fingernails. Theirs, crazy how thick they are. They're insane. And so, Bob, he goes through it it looks like he's struggling because he is struggling because snappers like, I mean, I'm familiar with fish and playing fish and stuff because I live in Alaska, and we got tons of fishing. I live seven minutes from the Kenai River, which is, like, world renowned. But it's not that I'm not not familiar with fishing, but this fish is, like, kind of on its, kind of in its own category as far as toughness goes.

Zeke Johnston [00:48:05]:
So Bob is, like, playing this fish, and he's struggling with it because of how tough it is with the scales and the rib bones and stuff. And then he does he does two or three other fish in addition to that snapper. And then his ceviche chef starts cutting tuna, and he's cutting, like, paper not paper thin, but but very, very thin little slivers of of, white tuna. And the knife is just gliding through it, like, effortlessly. And, he told me, he said, I'm gonna put this flight knife to the test, and did he ever. So really soon, we're gonna have that video dropping, of him struggling through the snapper, not because he's not good at filleting, but because of how tough the fish is. And I was super impressed. The edge retention on our blades are extremely they're they're pretty incredible.

Zeke Johnston [00:48:54]:
So

Bob DeMarco [00:48:55]:
yeah. Oh, that's cool. That's cool. And it's it was really neat to see how flexible that blade is.

Zeke Johnston [00:49:02]:
Oh, thank you. That's obvious.

Bob DeMarco [00:49:04]:
A testament not only to your grinding skills and getting it nice and thin, but

Zeke Johnston [00:49:08]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:49:08]:
Also the heat treatment and the tempering.

Zeke Johnston [00:49:10]:
Yeah. That's right. Everything to do. Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:49:14]:
We're all I I I don't I don't wanna not ask you about your wife. I know that she has been integral to your to the business Yeah. And to the, you know, the the, inception of the business. Tell us a little bit about, your wife's connection to the business and

Zeke Johnston [00:49:30]:
Okay.

Bob DeMarco [00:49:31]:
We find this a lot with with, knife makers. You know?

Zeke Johnston [00:49:34]:
Okay. Yeah. So my wife's, I would not be doing this without my wife's support for sure. I, once had a wise man tell me when I think it was right before my wife and I got married. He said, never underestimate the influence of your wife. And he didn't mean it in a degrading way to, to women at all or to wives anywhere. He was just saying they're very influential and and recognize recognize that. You know? And it's don't think you just have the bull by the horns.

Zeke Johnston [00:50:03]:
And, and my wife has been extremely supportive of me. Her name is Bethany. And, there's a little bio on our website, elastiblatestudio.com, and you'll see, a picture of our family, us my wife, nine, or five kids. But what's kinda neat is Bethany, I actually met Bethany, because of nice making. So, I was it was before it was when I was just doing it part time, but I connected with a couple of homeschool programs here locally. One is called Connections and one is called Idea. And they're government funded. It's kind of like public school funds, but homeschoolers are allowed to use the funds, you know, because if you homeschool, typically, you're it's all out of pocket, right? So, they through these two programs, they allow you to integrate with some of the, like, some of the local things that your public school students are also able to do because of the funding from the state.

Zeke Johnston [00:51:02]:
So, one of those was, one of those things is having vendors, local vendors. And so what I did was I connected with connections and idea, and I was set up, to to teach knife making as a class to students. And, long story short, through a librarian, who I knew who was, like, kind of an aunt to my wife, I got in I I made connections with, with my wife's family. And so my mother my mother-in-law now my mother-in-law reached out and said, you know, I have a a son who would love to come take your class. And, and and so we got it all set up, and I started teaching. And soon after that, I was invited out to a get together. And, I think I think, I think there was somebody who was trying to to set set me up with one of their daughters. And, at this get together, I noticed Bethany there.

Zeke Johnston [00:52:08]:
And, and, it wasn't intentional. I don't think, the setup with my wife was intentional. But, yeah, it was really wonderful. If it hadn't have been for 1918, I very likely would not have met my wife. And, so we married, I think, it was three years, two two years, two years, I think, after we after we met. And she's been only supportive of me in this crazy venture. Knife makers don't make a whole lot, I'll say that. And, and it's, it's, kind of a niche, business to have.

Zeke Johnston [00:52:45]:
And, but she has been, it was kind of a one man band for a little bit there after I went full time, but she has been, I've asked her to be more involved, and she's wanted to be more involved. And so, she helps me with, some social media stuff, and and we just designed, a really nice, actually, you could you could see it there. The the mug in there with the knives, it's actually in our merchandise page, but I'm not very tech savvy, so somehow it ended up with the knife as well, but on our website there. But, yeah, she helped me, like, designing that that mug and and helped helped me with our logo and, and, yeah, just super supportive. I think that's the main thing is not that that's all she does, but, having the support of your of your wife is huge for your dreams becoming a reality. And, yeah, she's she's amazing. And, she makes sure that our five kids don't don't die and and keeps them fed every day. And, yeah, she's the the best life partner I could ask for.

Zeke Johnston [00:53:54]:
So

Bob DeMarco [00:53:56]:
Amen. Yeah. You know, I I met my wife knife fighting or learning how to knife fight in a martial arts class.

Zeke Johnston [00:54:04]:
That's awesome.

Bob DeMarco [00:54:05]:
We've been together a long time and

Zeke Johnston [00:54:08]:
and when

Bob DeMarco [00:54:08]:
I started doing this show, she's like, finally, you're gonna like it's gonna do something useful with all those knives you have. So, yeah, there's something like a supportive wife, a and one who understands knives. Oh my gosh. I mean, that's a that's that's a blessing.

Zeke Johnston [00:54:23]:
Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:54:24]:
So you mentioned that you are a a custom business mostly. Obviously, with the with the, thickety and the, and the other water jetted knives, that's something you can kind of, make and stock up on and sell, as those orders come in. But, as we as we pull into the station here, tell us about the, kinda your business model in terms of the custom side of the house.

Zeke Johnston [00:54:52]:
Yeah. So, I would like to mention that custom is is thrown around the word custom is thrown around pretty freely. Almost maybe in my estimation, a little too freely. We say anything that's handmade is custom. And it is custom in that it's, been customized. It's been built a very specific way by the maker. But typically, if if you have something custom made, it's you as the customer have commissioned whoever is making your product, whether it's a car, a motorcycle, a sandwich, or a knife, you've commissioned them to make something to your specifications. And, and so we that is what that is one of the a major part of what we do here at Alaska Blade Studio is is we have customers who come to us, and they they may just say as little as, I want a night from you, but I don't know what I want.

Zeke Johnston [00:55:50]:
And so we'll start asking them questions. And, it's a it's a relatively personal experience in that, personalized experience in that, often I I I want to actually have a phone conversation with them, to kind of walk them through the questions of what they're looking for exactly. Some people will say, I want a kitchen knife. I say, Okay. Well, here's kind of what I recommend for blade length or seal. Here's the options for handle materials. And so I walk him through that process. So, we are truly a custom knife shop.

Zeke Johnston [00:56:22]:
What I don't do is I don't make Gilhaven, fantasy knives. I don't go that extravagant, but we provide a wide range of options, from, you know, little everyday carries, you know, to to daggers and chafers and fillet knives and beautiful chef's knives, which those are like a category all their own as far as, like, learning to build chef's knives. That is, like yeah. That's a that's a whole other animal.

Bob DeMarco [00:56:49]:
I would I would imagine that's similar to the fillet knife, category because Yeah. They're so thin and they have to be so flexible and tough Yeah. And all of that at the same time.

Zeke Johnston [00:57:01]:
Yes. It and they are they are that perfect balance and and, and then the the can't of the handle is different on the that's something that I've really learned this year, just how, how handles are canted differently. So there seems to be like a slight downward can't for most of your everyday carry knives and even your fillet knives. I tend to make them slightly downward spec. It gives you kind of an aggressive, ability as far as cutting goes when you're filleting a fish. But then you have kitchen knives and your like your chef's knives, you're standing at your counter and your hands are around your belly area, right? And your hand is your arm is like this essentially. And so having that slight upward angle of the handle on a chef's knife is actually really important. Not only does it maybe help keep your knuckles off, it is the opposite.

Zeke Johnston [00:57:59]:
Right? And then and so kind of wrapping your mind around the mechanics of knives is really important, and it was something they didn't realize at the beginning. But, yeah, that's kind of the beauty of of having like a maybe, like, a one stop shop like our like our shop is we we provide everything from start to finish and and, you know, helping a person walk through that whole design process and maybe learning what they want when maybe they didn't know what they wanted exactly at the beginning. We really clarify that.

Bob DeMarco [00:58:28]:
So, Zeke, let people know how they get in touch with you and the Alaska Blade Studio and find out how they can get their own custom

Zeke Johnston [00:58:36]:
knife made from you. Sounds good, Bob. Yeah. So the main way to get in touch with us is our website, which is alaskabladestudio.com. And, and on that website, you'll find, the links to Facebook and YouTube at the bottom of every page. So if you click on the Facebook links there, it'll take you to our page. It's actually just a personal page. It's it's a creator page.

Zeke Johnston [00:59:03]:
And, and that's we found that to be really useful, but you can just message us from there. If you comment on any of our posts, we're gonna see it, and we'll respond to you. And, that's a good way to get in touch with us. But if you go to our website, you can shoot us an email, and, that's a great way to get in touch with us as well. So, yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:59:28]:
There's also plenty of eye candy on the, on the website. So Yes.

Zeke Johnston [00:59:33]:
That's right. Gotta

Bob DeMarco [00:59:34]:
get some inspiration. Yeah.

Zeke Johnston [00:59:36]:
We've got plenty of blades available.

Bob DeMarco [00:59:38]:
Oh, yeah. Plenty of blades available. Especially, I I noticed the chickadees, which

Zeke Johnston [00:59:43]:
is Okay. Thank you.

Bob DeMarco [00:59:45]:
Zeke, thank you so much. Zeke Johnston of the Alaska Blade Studio, thank you so much for joining me on the Knife Junkie podcast. I I love your work, and it's been great talking with you.

Zeke Johnston [00:59:55]:
Thank you so much, Bob. It's been a pleasure. Really appreciate it.

Bob DeMarco [01:00:00]:
Take care.

Zeke Johnston [01:00:01]:
Take care.

Advertisement Announcer [01:00:01]:
If you search Google for the best knife podcast, the answer is the Knife Junkie podcast.

Bob DeMarco [01:00:06]:
There he goes, ladies and gentlemen. Zeke Johnston from the Alaska Blade Studio making truly custom knives. But if that's out of your budget for now, check out some of the, water tip knives he has on hand. Those little chickadees are beautiful. And I gotta say the hamon, I don't know, looks gorgeous, and they look like super practical knives. Alright. For Jim working his magic behind the switcher, I'm Bob DeMarco saying, until next time, don't take dull for an answer.

Announcer [01:00:34]:
Thanks for listening to the ninth junkie podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please rate and review at reviewthepodcast.com. For show notes for today's episode, additional resources, and to listen to past episodes, visit our website, theknifejunkie.com. You can also watch our latest videos on YouTube at theknifejunkie.com/YouTube. Check out some great knife photos on theknifejunkie.com/Instagram, and join our Facebook group at theknifejunkie.com/Facebook. And if you have a question or comment, email them to Bob@theknifejunkie.com or call our 247 listener line at (724) 466-4487, and you may hear your comment or question answered on an upcoming episode of the Knife Junkie podcast.