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Announcer [00:00:03]:
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast, your weekly dose of knife news and information about knives and knife collecting. Here's your host, Bob the knife junkie DeMarco.

Bob DeMarco [00:00:16]:
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast. I'm Bob DeMarco. On this edition of the show, I'm speaking with Matt from Mattisfaction. Matt has a YouTube channel where he shares his passion for knives and EDC gear and cohosts a popular livestream for knife folk with said Stevie called said faction. In the past year, Matt's passion has pushed him from hobbyist to professional knife guy with the advent of his first production folder, the Kizer Phoenix, a refreshing and unlikely shape for such a popular knife in a time when the utility shaped blades seem to dominate. To me, that's exciting. We'll find out what it was like going from fan to bonafide designer and find out what's in the offing. But first, be sure to like, comment, subscribe, hit the notification bell, download the show to your favorite podcast app, etcetera.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:08]:
And if you wanna help support the show, you can do so by joining us on Patreon. That's the knifejunkie.com/patreon. Again, the knifejunkie.com /patreon.

Announcer [00:01:27]:
Knife themed shirts, hoodies, mugs, water bottles, and more. The knifejunkie.com/shop. If you search Google for the best knife podcast, the answer is the knife junkie podcast.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:35]:
Matt, how are you, sir? Good to have you on the Knife Junkie podcast. Well, I'm good. Thanks for having me. Oh, it's my pleasure.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:01:44]:
I've looked through your backlog of different podcasts, and I don't know how well it fit in here, but I'm gonna I'm gonna do my darnest.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:51]:
Well, if you if you looked, if you looked far and deep, you'll see that I have everyone. I like I like to talk to everyone from from, established knifemakers to people like you and me who are big fans and collectors who make a jump. Well, you've made a jump, and I wanna congratulate you on the, the Kaiser Phoenix. Oh, thank you. There it is. What a beauty.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:02:19]:
Yeah. Nice little, Persian blade or clip, whatever you wanna call it. I call it a Persian.

Bob DeMarco [00:02:24]:
Well, who you gonna believe? The designer? I I you know what? I actually I woulda called it a clip point, but I I like the upswept blade. And what I was saying in the beginning, really rings true to me. Like, I feel like I've seen so many wharncliffe and sheep sheep's foots and, more utility, aimed blades. Tell me about what it was like coming up with this and and where this design comes from.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:02:51]:
Well, in in a world of knives, like you said, there's a lot of worm clips and drop point is the biggest one. And so one day I was just doodling, and, I just kinda come up with a a doodle that kinda had an upswept blade shape. And, if you know me, I cannot draw. So, I actually had help from Sharif Manganis. He just came out of this Kaimano. And, together, he helped me turn my doodle into what you see here. And, it it's it was a really fun process, but I I like different knives. I don't like drop points just all the time.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:03:33]:
I I I need some variety, And this is a very utilitarian shape, like you were saying. It's a very good slicer. Scabs actually had it for a while, this one, and he he stabbed through tires and everything with it. This thing handled a lot of abuse.

Bob DeMarco [00:03:50]:
I love that guy. I love Scab. I love what he puts knives through. He he'll do what I certainly will not do, even with knives that I know can handle it, And just watching him do it is good enough for me. Yes. So when I get my Phoenix, I will know that it can take all of that, but I will not have to put it through all of that. No. Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:04:10]:
So you've got this this trailing point Persian blade. And first of all, you said, Sharif Manganas. I know him from a couple of Kaisers that came out a couple of years ago that were really cool. Yeah. And I guess he's got a new one coming out. But, tell me what, like, really where that Persian

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:04:28]:
y thing came from for you. Well, I love the Phoenix. It's it's, you know, from the area, you know, Persia down to China and everything, and so when I started my channel, my first knife I ever bought for the channel was the CRKT ritual, big old Persian, and I've I've just always loved them. And so I wanted to kind of incorporate that into something a little more utilitarian, not as crazy, but maybe something people might actually wanna use. Yeah. And and it's got a, a point that is upswept or

Bob DeMarco [00:05:06]:
a tip that's upswept and a nice long clip. But the all of that belly up towards the front seems, very, like, usable and great for sort of rocking on a on a flat surface.

Mattisfaction [00:05:19]:
Yeah. I've I've put it through a sandwich real easy. When I use my knives, I'm not a hard user. I'm I'm a city boy, so most of mine are, like, opening boxes and sandwiches, and this is a good sandwich cutter.

Bob DeMarco [00:05:35]:
Yeah. And if you need to know more than that, we also know it can it can handle, radial steel, belted tires. Yes. Which is cool. I too am a am a, city boy ish. Now I'm a sub suburban boy, but, same, same sort of, point of reference. And, I don't tend to use my knives very hard though. I'm drawn towards those that I know I can.

Bob DeMarco [00:06:00]:
When you design the Phoenix and when you kind of, well, when you started shopping the design to, Kaiser, what did, what were you thinking you wanted this to be for in a, in a sense?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:06:16]:
I wanted to have, like, I wanted something named after my son, who's putting a box on the floor for some reason. But, I always thought it'd be cool you you go to the store and you buy, like, a dirt pinkerton or, you know, the Conoco, whatever. It'd be neat to find a knife made by someone you know. Mhmm. So I figured I'd I'd throw my hat in there. It was kind of a joke, actually. Like, I I was like, you know, I wonder if I could get this going. And then Shareef, with his previous history with Kaiser, showed me who to email, and I just did it.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:06:53]:
And, it was surprisingly easy, but nerve wracking. There's a lot of silence and you're just sitting there like biting your teeth.

Bob DeMarco [00:07:02]:
You mean because you send a design off, it kind of languishes in in obscurity, and then you hear some news later? How does that work?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:07:10]:
Yeah. Yeah. You'll send your design, and then it goes through 3 rounds of voting. I I don't know who votes on it, but if it reaches the 3rd, and it could take 3 months, all of a sudden, they'll be like, here's the contract. Sign it, and then we'll we'll get the work on it. And so for 3 months, you submit your design. You're like, do they like it? Do I email them? What do I do? And, it taught me a lot about patience. I'm not a very patient person.

Bob DeMarco [00:07:39]:
Well, especially when you send something off like that.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:07:41]:
Oh, yeah. I'll show you what I said too. You never want to send your your full design, so I sent just the top picture here. That's,

Bob DeMarco [00:07:52]:
oh, nice.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:07:52]:
You could see it have, like, more belly back then. It's gotten some changes, but A

Bob DeMarco [00:07:57]:
little bit of a recurve there.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:07:59]:
Yeah. So you kind of just send something like this, and then you you you hope that they like it. And then once they say yes, then you

Bob DeMarco [00:08:06]:
can start getting into your technical details. God, I love that this is all hand drawn. If you're only listening, Matt is showing me the, the detailed breakout of the parts for the Kaiser Phoenix, and they're all hand drafted like a, like a Bill Harsey, design or something.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:08:26]:
It's it's pretty cool. That's that's all

Bob DeMarco [00:08:28]:
So these were drawn by Sharif, I take it then?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:08:31]:
They were all drawn by Sharif

Bob DeMarco [00:08:32]:
because I cannot draw. You were saying that when you send a design first off to an OEM, especially, I guess, one like Kaiser, because that's the experience you're talking about. You're only sending them the catalog shot or or what the final product is supposed to look like, but not how they're supposed to engineer it.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:08:50]:
Yep. Yep. You you don't wanna send them everything. It it it leaves them wanting and, it it also it it gives you an opportunity, like, if you submit just a basic one. As you're waiting, maybe you're like, oh, well, maybe it's got too much belly. Like, in this case, it kinda swoops too far down. So you can change it as, it goes. Once they approve it, then you could show them more technical and be like, yeah.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:09:17]:
That's that's more what we want. Right.

Bob DeMarco [00:09:20]:
Right. Okay. So and now I'm seeing in the, maybe it's easier to see from that drawing, but you took that from a deep belly with a recurve to more of a straight edge down to a curved belly. It's starting to look more like a navaja to me. Yeah. Right right there kinda. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:09:39]:
Like I said, there there still are some changes, like, yeah, that is more straight edge, so we did go with the more belly there. Mhmm. Just just because, the belly is more utilitarian, especially with when you're cutting your sandwich.

Bob DeMarco [00:09:54]:
Well, yeah. And you need you need a number of different surfaces here. You have the the straight, kind of flat edge or the straight edge, dipping all the way down to a, rounded off belly. That's almost like a secondary point or a low down point. And then you got the point point. Alright. So let me get to the point here, Matt. You you know my taste is for the tactical, the more historically combative designs and something about the Phoenix here, has both it straddles that line.

Bob DeMarco [00:10:27]:
It's a very useful utilitarian knife, but you look at it. It's also like really fearsome. And I always joke that I'm a shallow guy. Maybe it's not a joke, but that looks really matter to me when it comes to knives. And, so tell me a little bit about that. It's a very aggressive design and and and you and I were were 2 nice guys, but why are we drawn to these aggressive designs? I think, you

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:10:52]:
know, anytime a man holds something sharp, you just automatically get that, oh, I need to cut, need to stab. You know, your your hunting instincts kick in. You know, you kinda you wanna start crawling through the bushes, and this this will let you do that. And with tactical knives, it's all about they may not look like it, but ergonomics. You want it to lock in your hand. Mhmm. And so this one, we made the handle swell really wide so that it goes right into your palm and locks in. It's not going anywhere if you were to use it in your tactical aspects, either grip.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:11:30]:
Yeah. But I don't know. I think it always just comes down to our old caveman days. You just wanna

Bob DeMarco [00:11:35]:
cut something. I think you're right. I had a, a Kenpo teacher when I lived in Philadelphia, and she was a woman. And, whenever any any of the guys came in with a new knife, the whole class would stop and everyone would, like, hover around it. And she's like, what is it with guys and knives? And and that always stuck out. I mean, that's like 25 years ago at this point, but it's always stuck out, in my head because even the the most uninterested in knives person, guy especially, you can just show it to him and they'll be like, kinda like that. It reminds me of something like, other days when we were more stouthearted.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:12:15]:
See, I I think that's why gas station knives are a thing. They're they're flashy. They got the serrations. They're sharp. They're wide angles. They got bottle openers and glass breakers. Like, that's the appeal. You just want something that does everything, and it looks cool.

Bob DeMarco [00:12:30]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's almost artsy. You know? It's like sculpture. It's like a little piece

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:12:34]:
of sculpture. And I wanted to show one thing real quick. I found it. Yeah. So this just proves to me that, like, you know, anybody can get something out, but this is the very first rendition of the Phoenix. Woah. That's I I doodled that, and, that's the very first rendition. And so that, you know, turned into this, which turned into this.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:13:01]:
So this has

Bob DeMarco [00:13:01]:
a very unique build. I was, excited and interesting, especially given this week. I just did a whole podcast on aluminum. I did a whole show on aluminum handled knives, and I found out that this one is aluminum. I just always assumed it was titanium. And I gotta say, what's that?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:13:18]:
It's supposed to be titanium.

Announcer [00:13:20]:
Oh, but aluminum is I love aluminum.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:13:23]:
I like it. I keep it light.

Bob DeMarco [00:13:25]:
Yeah. I think there should be I I I'm not I think people like titanium because it was used on the SR 71, and it's called titanium. But I, I, to me, I love aluminum. I love aluminum handles and the fact that we rarely see aluminum handles with bolsters and carbon fiber being treated like steel or titanium. Tell me about what went into what went into the decision about the materials? S 35en, great, you know, awesome blade steel.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:13:56]:
Since I just licensed design, we don't get, like, the full run of the mill, so I didn't get the shoes, the blade steel. I got to pick the colors, which I wanted more red, but they put on this, orange lava. And, I originally spec for titanium because everyone likes titanium. Mhmm. But then they went with, aluminum, and even the boxes that came in said titanium. So I think it was a last minute change that they just went with aluminum. But, like, the clip is titanium and the backspacer, but I think the aluminum was a good choice because it did make

Bob DeMarco [00:14:34]:
it a lot lighter. It's smooth. I like the way it feels. Well, the the first thing I thought of is if you don't have, like, do you now have the desire having gotten your feet wet with the Phoenix? This is your first one. Right? It did. I mean okay. So this is your first knife, and man, you came out of the gate, you know, with Kizer. That's, that's, from my perspective, that's huge.

Bob DeMarco [00:14:58]:
To me, they're, you know, one of my very favorite companies and to come out with them, that's pretty amazing on a first knife. And but you licensed it and you've gone through that process. So now I'm curious. Next time, and I'm assuming there's a next time, would you want to license your, product again, or would you wanna OEM it and do it exactly the way you wanna do it and distribute yourself? So I don't have the, the wallet big enough to OEM, so it's just licensing for now. And, I actually already have number 2 being made by Kaiser right now. Oh.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:15:38]:
I have you you wanna see a picture? Yes. I do. So I kinda printed it out, but this is the Orion.

Bob DeMarco [00:15:46]:
That is cool. That's the Orion?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:15:48]:
Yes. Named after my second son. There's another

Bob DeMarco [00:15:53]:
named after your first son, Phoenix's middle name, I guess, and then this

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:15:58]:
Yes. Pop me in. So the backspacer has, the 3 stars milled in and then these three pins represent Orion's belt as well. My family's big space nerds. So Eli was named after the Phoenix supercluster of galaxies, and Isaiah is named after the Orion constellation, so I wanted to name the knives after them. So this one is currently in development, and it's it's gonna be a big boy if I have it my way. It's almost a 10 inch knife

Bob DeMarco [00:16:29]:
all the way. Right. Yeah. So, you're talking about a 4

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:16:33]:
and a half inches? Yes. I like big knives. Yes. As do I. And we have it spec'd to where, like, the thumb studs are removable and hopefully the flipper tab because Heizer's done it in the past. Yeah. So I'm really hoping that they do it because, I like I like all the opening methods and as some people don't, so it's cool, like, if you don't like flippers, get it out there, no big deal. But if you do, that's there.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:17:00]:
I mean, the option I like options. So we're we're going for it. But, again, right now, I'm in that nail biting quiet stage. I haven't heard a thing, so we'll see. I think they're they're just gonna hit me one day with an email saying, here's your prototype. What do you think?

Bob DeMarco [00:17:18]:
That that quiet stage has to be kind of frightening because you're not exactly sure what they're doing. And and I would imagine they're probably making, design choices based on engineering that you might not be aware of or that kind of thing.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:17:33]:
Yeah. And Kaiser is, they're they're kinda stepping up their game. They're doing more crazy things. Like, you saw the Huntsman. Yes. All the milling and the blade that make it look like the eyeballs. Yes. And a lot of their knives are they're doing different styles, so it's getting crazier and crazier and, Izu's really moving up in their skill, their techniques, and everything.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:17:59]:
And, one thing I like I've been saying it since I started like this, I tell everyone, you can design a knife. I think everyone should. I've been saying 2024 is the year of the people, because, I mean, we've been seeing knives come out from, like, Lefty and KC. Stasse is about to have them come out, and then you have people who you just see in the chat as you you you're doing the livestream, and you see, like, this guy's got a knife coming out, and this guy's got a knife coming out. I think it's it's really cool, and everyone's got a different idea and a different perspective that's pushing some of these knife companies to limits they haven't seen before. I think it's, it's a very exciting time, and I can't wait to see, like, what next year has.

Bob DeMarco [00:18:50]:
Yeah. I I think it is also, especially given the fact that people who spend, much of their time thinking about this, considering it, developing preferences, and that kinda thing, when they start making knives, it's a different, it's a slightly different game than, someone who's been making knives for years and and, you know, you're getting it from the perspective of an enthusiast, which is it's always gonna be everything to 11, which I I love.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:19:22]:
Yeah. No holds barred. They they they will just they like what they like, and they'll put it on paper and then go for it. And I think it's awesome.

Bob DeMarco [00:19:32]:
Yeah. I I do too, and it's, it's made things exciting, you know. So your first knife, Upswept Persian, I like to call anything, even approximating a clip point, a Bowie. So, in my mind, it's kind of a Persian Bowie, a beautiful carbon fiber handle with the aluminum and the upsweep on the S35EN. And then you show us our second, your second one, the Orion, and it couldn't be more opposite. Tell me about, the the contrast in those designs. So that actually stems from my 2 boys, Eli.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:20:12]:
So he's more mellow, more chill. He's got he he he represents, like, the curves, straight lines. He's relaxed. My second son is absolutely crazy. He he does not sit still. He gets into everything. He is pure chaos. I love him.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:20:29]:
He he's like a a scientist. He takes things apart. He just doesn't know how to put it back together. So the Orion is just pieces and chaos and lines and no. I mean, I I try to, like, put a piece of me into all my drawings and stuff, and, it makes it more personal. It's it's got that personal satisfaction touch when I get it, and it's, it's really neat. So I get to see some of my boys in these, and then my next life is gonna be, my wife.

Bob DeMarco [00:21:04]:
Oh, nice.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:21:05]:
So she's a lefty, and I'm curious what she wants to help design it, so when we do that,

Bob DeMarco [00:21:11]:
that will we'll we'll see what that comes out as. It's gonna be neat. Well, so what is, Mattisfaction in terms of your taste? You said it's very satisfaction. So tell us about your taste in knives before you started actually designing them and having them made.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:21:28]:
I I love all kinds of knives. I have all kinds of styles, like even here, you know, I just recently got this, the Alaris. It's a nice drop point, but it's got a big belly, so it's a little different. Here here's a knife that everyone seems to hate, but I love it. I it's one of my favorites. This is the Real Steel Real Slim. It's discontinued.

Bob DeMarco [00:21:55]:
I laugh at that knife. No. I'm not laughing. It looks like a scalpel. When this came out, I thought, that's like a medical instrument.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:22:02]:
It's so good, though. This is a perfect gentleman's steak knife. Yeah. Like I said, you're one of those too. You just don't like it. But you know what?

Bob DeMarco [00:22:13]:
I don't know. No. No. I'm I'm not saying that. I actually kinda think it's charming. I I do like, different style things, and I I like anything that kinda looks like a scalpel with that, like, yeah. That that right there.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:22:27]:
This guy, he, I don't know what his reference was. He's no longer with us, but he just drew something wacky probably one day and went to Real Steel, and they said, sure. We're not. And, you know, now now I get to hold this thing. A lot of people look at that. They're like, why? But I think this has to be experienced, I think. It just it's so cool, but it's different. I mean, you got a bulbous top over here, and the tile looks like a speedboat window right there.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:22:58]:
I don't know. There's a lot going on, but I love it.

Bob DeMarco [00:23:01]:
That's funny that you, make that reference because I have 2 knives in particular that I love a lot that I compare to Italian speedboats. I don't know why I all say Italian, but to me, they look kinda so it's interesting that you that you make that comparison with that knife. I don't wanna leave the Phoenix yet, because I wanna find out more about your, experience working with Kaiser. I know you talked, you talked about that, that quiet period.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:23:28]:
Oh, yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:23:29]:
But in terms of did you have, as a new designer, did you try to, shop your design to a number of different people, or did you just go straight with Sharif through to, Kizer?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:23:44]:
Honestly, I just went straight to Kizer.

Bob DeMarco [00:23:46]:
Well, yeah. I mean, why would you okay. So before you were talking about this reminds me, you were talking about how they've really stepped up their game and their, but I think their game was stepped up from the start because Kaiser came onto my, radar with the, oh God. Now I'm gonna forget. They had skulls on them, and they were fully contoured. Oh, Italian last guy's name, Matt something or other. Oh, it'll come to me in a second. But sorry.

Bob DeMarco [00:24:20]:
But this is we're talking, like, 10 years at least ago, and and they were producing, titanium handles that were fully contoured, which is still a very expensive, and difficult process. And they were doing it on these. I hope people are yelling at their computers right now, telling me what it is. Matt, Italian last name, but he had the, the skulls on the side, beautiful recurve blades. I really regret getting rid of those. Kaiser is such a a great company. But did you have much, interaction? Like, I I think when you have something OEM by them, there's probably maybe more interaction. Is that correct?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:25:02]:
There is. Yeah. Because there's a lot of like, I talked to Sharif, so he he teaches me, like, the behind the scenes. So he'll he'll message me. Like, I got an email today. We're talking about scale materials or maybe they have to adjust the blade length a little bit or put a sharpening choil or, like, there's a lot more that goes to the OEM. And, licensing, you kinda you get some creative freedom, but you don't get as much.

Bob DeMarco [00:25:30]:
Okay. That seems like a nice place to be, actually.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:25:33]:
I think so. OEMing, you have to have a couple of, like, $20 or something just to start. You gotta buy your knives and everything. Licensing, you can go in with 0. Yeah. And you just get off of the sale price, like, a a percentage of it. So it's a it's a good way for people to get their name out there or just get started.

Bob DeMarco [00:25:57]:
Yeah. That seems like a great way to build your name.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:26:00]:
Yeah. It's it's a really fun process, and I hope more people do it. I wanna see everyone have a night out there. And, it it's cool. Like I said earlier, when you're on a livestream, you see someone, you're like, that guy 4 knives being considered right now, or this person has 2 being made right now. And, you know, they don't have a channel or anything, but it's just cool knowing it. Yes. So I I hope to see more.

Bob DeMarco [00:26:29]:
Wouldn't it be interesting if, other industries were like this? You know, I have a design for a bicycle. I'm just gonna have, you know, Schwinn make this for me. Like, that it doesn't work like this in most other industries, I don't think.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:26:43]:
I don't think so. I've designed a really cool bike.

Bob DeMarco [00:26:46]:
Not yet.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:26:48]:
One that can hold me too. I'm a

Bob DeMarco [00:26:50]:
pretty hefty guy. So, have you always been a knife guy? Like, what what what how has your interest and passion developed and grown, in knives?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:27:04]:
We go camping when I was a kid, so I've always had knives, always been around them. I used to collect gas station knives, like, you know, $5 at the the mall or something. Always had something cool on me. I used to stick a, straight razor in my sock.

Bob DeMarco [00:27:19]:
Oh, yes, man.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:27:20]:
Yeah. So, I mean, I I always just had knives, and my first, like, real knife was the Buck 110. Once I got that, it was oh, it was done. Every tree around me was gone.

Bob DeMarco [00:27:35]:
I loved it. So is this from a young Emmy? Are we talking, like, you're a a young boy when all this is happening?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:27:41]:
Oh, yeah. Like, 6, 7. Oh, oh, okay. I was in the Boy Scouts when I was a kid, so we had to learn safety on our little Swiss army knife and but, yeah, I've I've always been around knives, and I'm trying to get these guys into them. Eli actually owns the Phoenix prototype. That's cool. Cool slip board as a present.

Bob DeMarco [00:28:03]:
Oh, man.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:28:04]:
It's cool having a prototype too because you could see some of the differences that they, so this is

Bob DeMarco [00:28:10]:
actually your birthright.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:28:12]:
I mean It is. This is Eli. I tell him that all the time. He gets the prototype.

Bob DeMarco [00:28:17]:
So That is cool. Yeah. So, what about designing? How was it that, I mean, I know you just kind of revealed your philosophy. We should all be making knives. I don't know about that. Like, I I have my doubts, but, I haven't been disappointed yet from, I call them generally like yourself included trusted voices on YouTube who know about knives, who are making knives. They're awesome. I got a cabinet, with a bunch of them in there.

Bob DeMarco [00:28:48]:
And, I think that it's important for an enthusiast group, if they can, to be to be doing this. But in terms of you, how did it how did it come about that you're like, okay, I'm doing this. I'm actually, gonna design this knife, and we're gonna have this made.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:29:07]:
Like I said earlier, I did the doodle, and then I knew Sharif had designed knives through Kizer. He did the Grazioso, through Kizer, and I one day asked, so I was like, hey, what what does it take to get a design made? Because I I've always thought it'd be cool to have, like, a knife made. I I don't have the skills to be out there blacksmithing my own. I I'm that'll never happen. So he kinda he gave me an email address through Kaiser, which is actually on their website, and, I sent them, like, we took that doodle I showed you on my phone and turned it into more like what you see on the paper here. And then we just sent it and we waited. I honestly expected them to be like, oh, no. We're not.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:29:58]:
We ain't doing that. But then they said, yeah. We'll put it through the voting process, and all of a sudden, like, that was the moment it came real. Like, okay. They're actually considering this. Normally, when you try to sell something, you you know, you hit the door slam in your face right away. But they they said, yeah. I will consider it.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:30:18]:
And that was the longest 3 months of my life right there. I'll tell you what. I had a lot of sleepless nights.

Bob DeMarco [00:30:24]:
That's cool to hear. We'll put it through the voting process. So now you're imagining all the muckety mucks at Kaiser looking at this, yes, you know, and passing it around.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:30:35]:
And I have no idea who's on that. I asked. I was like, who's on the team or how long does it take? And they're like, it's confidential. Yeah. Yeah. So, it was, So, like, none of your business. Send more designs. I'm sorry.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:30:49]:
Basically, they do want more, and they're like, what's cool about Kaiser is they're actually they're not just a knife company now. They're part of the community. So, like, they know people who interact with them all the time, and so they're always doing giveaways, and they do their, like, Kaiser x program where people could submit a design. And so they're actually reaching out. So I think that kinda helps for them to accept my design. Like, we're reaching back both directions now, and that's pretty cool. They're they're they're like a knife company for the people, not just pushing out knives, but they they listen to us, which is really neat.

Bob DeMarco [00:31:31]:
That is. I mean, and also they're they're big and they have, a lot of capacity, obviously, but to be nimble enough to listen and make changes and to also assimilate, what their customers want kind of on an annual basis. That's a, that's a huge, sure. Well, that's a, that's a, an unlikely thing for a large company.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:31:56]:
Yeah. Which, I don't know how they do it, but I I think it's really neat. I'm not trying the Kaiser fanboy. I I just I just happen to like him. So but, you know, the other companies are great from what I've heard. Kubi has said I like a lot of Sharifs, and they're they've been really good with him. And concept has stepped up their game from what I've heard and but I just speak from Kaiser because that's all I know right now.

Bob DeMarco [00:32:23]:
Well, okay. So you had a campaign going. I'm not sure if it's still ongoing, but to get Post Malone to notice, tell me about that.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:32:34]:
I I just started it as a joke. I kinda I took a break because, a lot of people started getting negative, so I I took a break, but I'm gonna fire it up again. But, like, I I know he's never gonna reply. I don't even think, like, he runs his Instagram. It's probably a team or something. But but what I thought was cool is I started tagging him. Some people from the community started jumping in, like, oh, I love your post, and then I started using it as a way to showcase some of my favorite small business makers, like, I showed you the Lancelot slip. Yeah.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:33:11]:
And so it started kind of, shedding some light on people you might never heard of to get some cool stuff for your EDC gear. This other Lancelot stuff. This is from my Lynch pry bar.

Bob DeMarco [00:33:23]:
That's that's some pretty smart marketing there.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:33:26]:
Yeah. I just thought it'd be just something fun, you know, instead of just tagging just for tagging's sake, you know, try to do something with it. He's a knife fan. Right? He is. That's why I started acting on. He's a Okay.

Bob DeMarco [00:33:40]:
That's what I'm saying.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:33:41]:
Mouse fan. He's a what? He's a giant mouse fan. A

Bob DeMarco [00:33:45]:
giant mouse fan. That's cool. That's that is very cool. It's not like Benchmade or, like, it's not low hanging fruit. You know? That's that's a deep cut for a for a a a casual knife guy. That's so cool. I, I seem to remember maybe it was on ridiculousness or something, which I I'm ashamed to say. I love that show, but, maybe it was there or somewhere else, but I remember him saying he's into knives.

Bob DeMarco [00:34:11]:
Also, I remember rocker, Steven Tyler from Aerosmith carries a, an ultra tech, which I think is cool, you know, kinda goes with his flamboyant nature.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:34:21]:
I might have to start tagging him next.

Bob DeMarco [00:34:23]:
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. He might he might respond. But I I I really liked that, that little campaign you did. It was I mean, I have people that are jerked and they get negative, but I thought it was kinda cool because I was hoping that there would be a, you know, some sort of break and all it takes is that kind of repetitive, persistence or something. And finally, one day, one of his one of his people is like, oh, look at this. Host likes knives. Look at this post.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:34:56]:
You know? You never know. See you there right there. I I I'll probably start it up again tomorrow then. Like, it's just a a lot of the negative comments. I mean, there was a lot, but, like, it was enough to be, like, maybe the right wasted my time, but I did have fun, like, tagging some of my favorite people with Post Malone. Here's a knife you might like. This one got a lot of, showcase. Keith the knife rake.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:35:26]:
Oh, yeah. He makes these Ullus. And, this thing will go through a pizza like no one's business. Mhmm. So a lot of people never heard of Keith until I started tagging him on there. And, of course, Lancelot leather slipped it up for it.

Bob DeMarco [00:35:43]:
Oh, nice. Can you

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:35:44]:
guess who my favorite leather maker is?

Bob DeMarco [00:35:47]:
So you have a channel. Let's talk about your channel for a minute, and I wanna I wanna find out, I'll also I wanna get your picks from your perspective about knives out there, but, how did you start the Maddisfaction Channel? What was your impetus?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:36:02]:
Okay. So, I have a lot of anxiety issues and so now I've tried to fight them. I just started a channel. I didn't know anybody in the community. I just I got, like, the CRKT ritual. I I took a big box, put it on my desk, cut a hole in the top because I saw everyone doing top down, so I stuck my phone on there and just filled in the box and

Bob DeMarco [00:36:27]:
Oh, that's cool. It worked for

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:36:28]:
a little while. And, I don't like, like, the sound of my voice on camera. I don't like seeing myself on camera, so it's kind of a way to push through it. And then the next step was, like, doing the live streams. I did a face reveal. I was breathing into a paper bag. So it was, it was just a way to fight through some of the the stuff I I deal with, but it's been fun. I I will never not appreciate it and, I wouldn't do anything different.

Bob DeMarco [00:37:05]:
That's, amazing. I mean, that's, like, courageous because that's what courage is doing something that you're afraid of, but you still do it. And then you break through. I think that's, that's pretty cool. Thank you. Well, yeah. And that's a good example. You're a father.

Bob DeMarco [00:37:22]:
That's a good example to children, you know, to see, like, this is not something I'm comfortable with, but it's important and I'm doing it. And now I'm comfortable with it. You know, obviously it seems to me and probably everyone else that you've gotten over, whatever that thing was, or at least it seems you have because you're very comfortable on camera.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:37:42]:
I still deal with it. Like, I had literal nightmares last night. I was like, oh, the podcast is coming up. I kept waking up, so they're they're getting better, though. I mean, it it's it's helped tremendously.

Bob DeMarco [00:37:57]:
So it's, I appreciate this channel and everyone that I've got to meet and everything. It's been a blessing, huge blessing. You know, I've talked to a lot of people who have used their channels or whose channels were born out of a need to make something right, or, a a need to use this passion for knives to make other changes in their lives, and myself included. I I always had a problem with consistency, and, for me, it's been working with Jim, our producer here, who's, not only an awesome producer, who keeps me accountable, but he's a close friend. And that, you know, I don't wanna let him down and, so working on this channel and this podcast has made me a more consistent person. And, I I don't know. I think it's cool. I know a lot of other people have used their channels for for other things and have been very public about it.

Bob DeMarco [00:38:55]:
And, I do appreciate that because I think that's what gets people to connect, you know.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:39:02]:
I agree, a 100%. Some people, they they have their own reasons to do it, and, I think they're all good in their own right. And I always tell people, like, if you're you're scared, just do it. Just get out there. I mean, once you film your first video, the hardest part is over. That's right. It's just, smooth sailing from there, as they say. Sometimes you get a bumpy road, but just just do it.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:39:29]:
If you're, if you're, if you're thinking about it, whoever's listening, just do it. It's,

Bob DeMarco [00:39:35]:
And don't ever expect to like your voice or your like this on camera. Don't, like, like, get like, dispossess yourself of that immediately. Yes. I've tried to change my voice. I got, like, a microphone. I got these lavalier

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:39:48]:
thingies. Yeah. And if you don't like your voice, you never will. Just get past that.

Bob DeMarco [00:39:53]:
So it seems like a a big part of that for you and on your channel is, your lives with said Stevie. Tell me about the live show.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:40:04]:
We do Wednesdays and, it's late. Right. Oh, you're thinking of said faction. Those are Friday nights. Oh, said faction. I'm sorry. Said faction started because, one day we were just bored and, like, it was 10 o'clock for me and him. We had Pacific time at the same time.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:40:23]:
Sometimes I'm an hour ahead of them, but at that time, we were the same time. So we just went live, and there was, like, 10 people that joined, and it was really laid back. So we just did it again the next week and then the next week, and people seem to, like, really like it. And so we just kinda use it as a a hangout session just like my Wednesday one. Sometimes we'll talk about knives, sometimes we won't. It's just, how the chat flows. We kinda let the chat decide. I I like in my lives is, like, going to the bar, you see a couple of your buddies, you just go hang out and chat.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:40:58]:
Maybe it's gonna be about life or maybe, someone's having a hard time. So, I mean, we one of my favorite lives, there was this woman. She came, and, she all she said was, I'm having a terrible day. Make me laugh. And then for the next hour, the entire chat was just filled with, like, dad jokes and lame jokes and, everyone was in tears laughing so hard. Like, it's it's just the way it goes.

Bob DeMarco [00:41:26]:
Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. People give a lot of lip service to the knife communities like none other, but I kinda I I believe it. I don't know. I haven't been involved in a bunch of other communities, but I believe it. Because, because what other business, because that's what it is.

Bob DeMarco [00:41:44]:
Ultimately, it's a business. What other business environment are people, happily, you know, kumbaya with one another? And and not only that, but among knife makers, sharing secrets and techniques and, ideas about marketing and all this kind of stuff. It's not it's not just among the, you know, fans and and lovers of collectors.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:42:06]:
No. Yeah. I've I've learned a lot that everyone here mostly wants to build each other up. We've had a couple people that, like, you know, they're they're not so on the positive side. Usually, they get chased out fairly quickly.

Announcer [00:42:21]:
Mhmm.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:42:22]:
Like, they're looking for just freebies or just to cause trouble, and, they get they get chased out pretty quick. So, I mean, this knife community builds each other up but also, like, closely guards each other. And I I think that's, you don't see that anywhere else.

Bob DeMarco [00:42:40]:
Yeah. I'd be I'd be surprised if you did. I had, I had someone chew me out once for not doing enough giveaways. This was a long time ago. I, I feel like now I do too many or whatever, but it's like, you know, you don't love your fans, man. You don't give any and I was like,

Announcer [00:42:55]:
I do all this stuff, man, for free.

Bob DeMarco [00:42:57]:
You know, you have to watch it, you don't have to watch it, but, you know, I I'm not a giveaway channel. Be honest. But people, like,

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:43:05]:
when I come to my lives, they know 90% of the time, no giveaway, we're just here to chill.

Bob DeMarco [00:43:11]:
Just here

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:43:12]:
to chill. Yeah, that's that's what we do on mine.

Bob DeMarco [00:43:16]:
So let's talk about the last, say, year or so in knives and and what's over the horizon. I wanna get an idea from you. Like, what are some of the knives over the past year that you've been bonkers about? What's coming out besides your own that you're excited about? And I asked this. I I have my, sentinel strike in my pocket today, and this was one I was so psyched about. I haven't carried in a long time since today, and it just made me think about how we get excited about stuff. Well, what are you excited about?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:43:47]:
So I have a knife feed made right now by a guy named, Ares EDC. He's a small knife maker. I wonder if I have a sticker somewhere. He's really cool dude. Check out his channel. Here's his logo here. I always hold it the wrong direction, but there's his name, Ares EDC. I think it goes like that.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:44:11]:
I don't know. I always get yelled at every time they're like, you're holding upside down. So he's making me a cool Pitts blade called the, Pistol. Oh nice. And then

Bob DeMarco [00:44:21]:
Well, wait wait wait. Before you move on, tell us about the pistol just a little bit.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:44:27]:
It's it's kinda hard to describe. Can I find a picture of it? Or do you want me to just describe it? Let's just describe it. Okay. So it's a drop point and it's got a harpoon on it, and, the scales I picked for it are resin laminated wood, red and black layered. So as he's contouring it, some of the red's gonna stick out. And, it's, the steel is AEBL, and, I haven't seen it finished. He's still working on the final touches. He had to send it out to get heat treated.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:45:04]:
He doesn't heat treat ABL himself. He gets it professionally done, but he also works with other steels that he will heat treat. I just don't know why ABL is different. I'm not a huge steel snob, so I'm still learning that, but Right. He sends those out, so he just got it back, but, I'm I'm I'm really excited for it.

Bob DeMarco [00:45:26]:
So are you going to, sell that on a, like, a pre order basis or

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:45:32]:
Oh, no. No. No. Sorry. That that's a knife just for me.

Bob DeMarco [00:45:35]:
Oh, that

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:45:36]:
He's making it just for me. Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:45:38]:
So Oh, nice.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:45:39]:
I didn't know you were talking about knives being made or whatever, Pareen.

Bob DeMarco [00:45:43]:
Oh, I yeah. I mean, I was I was talking in general, about knives on the market, trends, and certain knives on the DeMarco, anything that's exciting to you, anything new that's coming out?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:45:55]:
Well, my my Bob, Sharif, he's, he's one of my best friends, so he's shown me, like, his designs coming out. So, honestly, he's the one to be watching for just awesome cool stuff. I have his high mono I was gonna show you. Oh, yeah. Right here, this is the one he just came out with, And so

Bob DeMarco [00:46:23]:
This one. Yeah.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:46:25]:
Yes. So I mean Harpoon Tanto. Yes. This is this is just the beginning for Sharif. The stuff he has coming out is I don't know I don't know if I wanna say it's better than this because this is already pretty awesome. But as for future markets, I mean, he's the guy I'm watching, and it helps that he he's a he's a friend. And you can see all the schmooze. I actually use my knives.

Bob DeMarco [00:46:52]:
Ah, that's good. Yeah. That's so beauty, man. So that's an Americanized tanto there with that secondary point and, large opening hole in a harpoon. Beautiful blade.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:47:04]:
That's one thing. People need to get used to American tanto's. Like, from what I understand, they don't buy them because they don't know how to sharpen them. But, if you just treat it as 2 edges, you'll keep that point instead of rounding it off. Just 2 edges, like, and they're awesome. That that point is so utilitarian for everything.

Bob DeMarco [00:47:27]:
It's laziness, Matt. They're like, I don't wanna sharpen 2 blades. Hey, man. But yeah. I mean, it's so utilitarian. It couldn't be more utilitarian. It's basically like you have 2 wharncliffe's, because everyone loves the wharncliffe for its straightness and its lower, point. Well, on the Americanized tanto, you have the lower point, you have that straight edge, and then you have another, basically, a repeat of it, going up from the from that first point.

Bob DeMarco [00:47:54]:
Yeah.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:47:54]:
And it lets you keep a good reinforced tip for piercing. And it looks cool.

Bob DeMarco [00:47:59]:
At the

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:48:00]:
I mean,

Bob DeMarco [00:48:00]:
that's gotta stand for something.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:48:02]:
With that harpoon right there. So, I mean, for future market knives, keep an eye on Sharif. He is, he is just an awesome dude, and his knife philosophy comes from cars. He used to design cars and stuff, so you'll see some Wow. Wow. Some pretty futuristic looking stuff in here. So but he's he's the guy I'm watching. And even if he wasn't a friend, he would still be the guy I'm watching.

Bob DeMarco [00:48:32]:
It's amazing how you can't, like, you you can't decide what's gonna appeal to you. Things just kind of out of the blue will, the Phoenix for, for instance, and this is not to, blow hot air in your direction, but, I have kind of veered away from, upswept clip. I love clip points. I love Bowie's, but I've I've in recently been veering away from upswept clip points and upswept anything, in in deference to the wharncliffe. I'm a sucker for the wharncliffe right now.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:49:03]:
I

Bob DeMarco [00:49:04]:
have been for a long time. But, the Phoenix has, has the appeal that brought me right I mean, I immediately loved that design when I saw it. And and that, to me, that just goes to show that, you can have your preferences and some of them are for, oh, I like to work with a wharncliffe more because I have the tip down. For me, it's not really much of that because I don't really use my knives much. It, it really, I can make do with whatever knife I have in my pocket for whatever my chore is. But, to to see something that jogs you out of your current haste is exciting.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:49:42]:
I agree with that. That's what the Kaimana did, a harpoon, American Tanto, spear point almost, like, it was it was cool to see. Got got you to look a different way. Sorry. You want a sneak peek of something else I'm working on?

Bob DeMarco [00:49:58]:
Yes.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:49:59]:
Do you like gentleman's knives? Like, see your style? I work about a clip point, gentleman's, kind of a steak knife. Yeah. But it's going to taper where you would pinch like a steak knife. And then I'm also trying to Oh, wait.

Bob DeMarco [00:50:16]:
Wait. Hold that up so we can see that real quick. That yeah. Hold it up. Yeah, there we go. Oh, that's interesting. Okay. I see what you mean.

Bob DeMarco [00:50:26]:
Right at the ricasso, it kind of tapers in.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:50:29]:
Yeah. That's where right where you would, like, hold the steak knife to cut. Yeah. And one thing I wanna try, I'm gonna submit this to Kaiser, is, do you remember the, artisan Ahab?

Bob DeMarco [00:50:43]:
Yeah. By, by Niche Designs?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:50:46]:
Yeah. The the his weight relief made his inside look like, like whale bones and stuff.

Bob DeMarco [00:50:53]:
Yes. Yes.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:50:53]:
So I wanna try to do weight relief on this one to where it looks like a t bone steak.

Bob DeMarco [00:51:00]:
That's awesome.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:51:02]:
I love it. So what's cool is that, like, if you were to design a night, which I think you actually did, didn't you? You could you could have fun with some of the, like, Easter egg stuff on the inside.

Bob DeMarco [00:51:14]:
Yes.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:51:15]:
And so, like, I thought it would be awesome if, like, you just took this apart and all of a sudden you're staring at t bone steaks on the inside.

Bob DeMarco [00:51:23]:
That I I love that I love that idea, and I like the idea of the Easter egg, especially in so I'm not a huge fan of Ultom, though I I like that sort of color. I know a lot of people compare it to urine. I I actually like the color. I'm just not crazy about trans I don't know. I'm just not crazy about it on knives. I have one Ultima knife, and that's pretty much all I need, but I've seen a few. Kizer does a good job with it where, they really kinda make the what you're doing, except less pectoral. They make, the understructure or the substructure look very attractive.

Bob DeMarco [00:51:59]:
So you're seeing through that ultim, and then you're also seeing this very nice structure underneath.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:52:05]:
I think it's cool. I mean, you you gotta have fun with it. Otherwise, your basic weight wave is like circles or rectangles.

Bob DeMarco [00:52:14]:
Yeah. But, I mean,

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:52:15]:
you could put your own personal touch. So I'm I'm gonna go for the, the t bone steak.

Bob DeMarco [00:52:21]:
I like that.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:52:23]:
And by the way I'm Oh, sorry.

Bob DeMarco [00:52:25]:
I was gonna say I also really like the shape of the blade. But what were you

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:52:28]:
gonna say? Might swoopy. I I wanna point out, do you remember the doodle I showed you of the first phoenix? Yes. I actually drew this, so this is all me. So serious improvement. Yes. That's all I was gonna say. If you stick with it, you literally can improve. I never thought, like, I I am so proud of my straight lines here, and, like, I never thought I could ever do that.

Bob DeMarco [00:52:56]:
Well, that's also a beautiful mechanical drawing because you're showing it in the 3, you know, aspects, and you've got the all the lines com, between the different, knives. So everything is kinda locked in proportionate proportionally. I approve, sir. If I had a knife company, I'd run it. I I actually I never ever, ever use, restaurant, supplied steak knives. I will use the the Victorinox classic on my key chain if I forget my, my steak knife. It's always some I have a small sort of stable staple of, of steak knives that I'll bring with me, just folders that I like. But

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:53:36]:
I do the same like my Real Steel. I even got it in this nice little slip. Oh, yeah. People got mad at me for keeping the clip on in the slip, but you know what? This is my knife. I'll carry however I want, but this has gone through many a stake because I also do not use restaurant knives.

Bob DeMarco [00:53:53]:
Yeah. Yeah. The soggy handle, the the the loose fit between blade and handle, and then that dull serrated blade.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:54:01]:
That chews your steak up. It smells like nice. Right?

Bob DeMarco [00:54:05]:
That's a perfect way to say it. It does. It should pre choose your food. It's like, come on, man. That's my job. I'm the man buying the steak. Exactly. I wanna get to a speed round, before we end here, because I I I like to find out what your tastes are in quick one answer, answers.

Bob DeMarco [00:54:27]:
One one answer answers. Is that right?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:54:30]:
Yeah. Sounds good to me.

Bob DeMarco [00:54:31]:
That's about right.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:54:32]:
We'll try. Alright.

Bob DeMarco [00:54:34]:
Alrighty, sir. Hang on. I'm I'm going to, customize one of the questions to you. Oh. Alright. Okay. Starting the speed round now. Fixed or folder? Folder.

Bob DeMarco [00:54:50]:
Flipper or thumb stud?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:54:52]:
I lean into our thumb stud these days. Nice. Washers or bearings? That's, that's tricky. Depends on application. But how about bearings for now?

Bob DeMarco [00:55:03]:
Tip up or tip down? Tip down,

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:55:08]:
I think. Tip down? Do I have a backwards tip up?

Bob DeMarco [00:55:13]:
Okay. I'll

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:55:13]:
have to

Bob DeMarco [00:55:14]:
think about it. You didn't you didn't you didn't design the yeah. Tip up. Okay. Everyone's like,

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:55:20]:
oh. Yeah. I have to I have to think about it.

Bob DeMarco [00:55:25]:
Tanto or Bowie? And and by Tanto, I mean Americanized Tanto.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:55:30]:
Right now, I'll go with tanto just because of that kai mono.

Bob DeMarco [00:55:33]:
Hollow grind or flat grind? Hollow grind's more slicey, so I'll go with hollow grind. Bushcrafting flat grind would be alright. But, like you, I don't do much bushcrafting. Hollow grind for me works better, and it looks cool. It does. Full size or small?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:55:51]:
Full size. I'm a cold steel guy.

Bob DeMarco [00:55:53]:
Yeah. Yeah. Here. Here. Gentleman's knife or tactical knife?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:56:00]:
I'm leaning towards gentlemen's these days. I got all the CEOs, the real steel.

Bob DeMarco [00:56:05]:
Alright. A cold steel guy, lean and gentleman. I like that.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:56:09]:
It's a design one?

Bob DeMarco [00:56:11]:
Well, you know the Ocasio knives. Do you know Ocasio? I do. Awesome. And you know the connection to Cold Steel.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:56:19]:
Yes. The Demkim I have in El Paso somewhere.

Bob DeMarco [00:56:23]:
The guy, Rick, Valdez who runs it and owns it used to work for a cold steel for years. So I know he uses a lot of the Taiwanese manufacturing. All right. Back to the, back to the speed round, Automatic or Bally song? Automatic. Alright. So is that an out the front or out the side?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:56:43]:
I like OTFs. Out the front.

Bob DeMarco [00:56:46]:
Alright. Button lock or bar lock?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:56:50]:
Button lock.

Bob DeMarco [00:56:52]:
Okay. All right. Here's a, here's a, Benchmade or Spyderco? Spyderco now. I wanna come back to that. So now and then I have another one I will come back to and ask you about. Okay. M 390 or 20CV? 20CV. Alright.

Bob DeMarco [00:57:16]:
Is that because it's American?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:57:18]:
Yes. Okay. Same still, but American.

Announcer [00:57:20]:
That's what I thought. That's what I thought. I think when I wrote this,

Bob DeMarco [00:57:22]:
I didn't know that. Milled titanium or spring clip?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:57:28]:
Milled titanium. That's what's on the Phoenix. Kaiser or Kubi? Kaiser. Carbon Fiber or Micarta? Carbon Fiber these days.

Bob DeMarco [00:57:41]:
With all the cool exotic carbon fibers, it's kinda hard to say no to. Finger choil or no choil? I like a good finger choil. Form or function?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:57:53]:
Function. I wanna know if that works, how it's supposed to work.

Announcer [00:57:58]:
Function with an asterisk though, is that has to look good, I think, is what

Bob DeMarco [00:58:01]:
I think so. I I agree.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:58:03]:
Like the the choil, you know, this this is form and function.

Bob DeMarco [00:58:07]:
That is a nice that what? That's a fair and forage there?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:58:10]:
Yeah. The Alaris. That's beautiful. Very simple, but they got the form and the function down.

Bob DeMarco [00:58:17]:
Alright. Last question. Your desert island knife, Matt, this is the the one knife you get to keep for the rest of your life. You have to sell everything else. Sell everything else? Or you can acquire it if you don't have it, but it's the one knife you get. The one knife, desert island. Your own knives aren't included. The Phoenix doesn't

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:58:38]:
I wouldn't not on a desert island. This the it'll get sand in the bearings. I'll go with my Espada XL. That thing could do everything.

Bob DeMarco [00:58:48]:
Yes, sir. I I've never had that answer. I only do the speed round with people like yourself who have a channel, who look at a lot of different knives, and I've never had anyone say that. And it warms the cockles of my heart because I think that would make a fantastic, desert island knife. And when I say desert island, I mean it more metaphorically, but being literal, also excellent, excellent choice. But I wanted to ask you about, I said Benchmade or Spyderco, and you said Spyderco. Now what did that mean?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:59:19]:
I I used to I I like Benchmade, but the prices are kind of getting wonky and I've been playing more with some Spydercos, and I I do like Spyderco. And, this is gonna sound stupid, but because, you know, I like space, some of them I have say, like, made in golden or golden Colorado Earth.

Bob DeMarco [00:59:39]:
Yes. I like I

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:59:40]:
like that part.

Bob DeMarco [00:59:41]:
Yeah. Me too. It sounds

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:59:42]:
like those Easter eggs. I love I love that.

Bob DeMarco [00:59:45]:
And and I feel like that'll be valuable in the next century because at some point, it's gonna be like, is this some is this was this made on the Mars factory or on the satellite factory or the Earth factory?

Matt of the Mattisfaction [00:59:56]:
Yeah. I think it's neat. They're they're they're thinking ahead. Yeah. Like I said, I love Easter eggs, so, like, that little touch will get me to

Bob DeMarco [01:00:04]:
buy your knife. I I dig it. Alright. Before, I let you go, just remind us of the name of the knife you have coming out. You have the Phoenix from Kizer, so beautiful, upswept, Persian clip point. What is the name of the knife you have in the offing here? Oh, look at that. The Orion. The Orion.

Bob DeMarco [01:00:23]:
A progressive, wharncliffe. Chaotic. Crazy. I love it.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [01:00:29]:
So hopefully I hear something. These are those

Bob DeMarco [01:00:32]:
4 points. You'll hear something.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [01:00:33]:
If you, if whoever's listening, if you design a knife, don't stress these moments even though they're very stressful. You will get your email. It's just they work on China time, and it's different. They they they don't keep tabs. They're like, I will tell you when it's done.

Bob DeMarco [01:00:51]:
So just, tie your camel and trust in God and and, you'll you'll hear you'll hear back from Matt, thank you so much for coming on the Knife Donkey podcast. It's been a pleasure. And, also, it's also awesome awesome that you you check-in on Thursday night knives. It's always cool to see you commenting. Like, oh, we have a star with us. You know? It's always cool to see you. Well, you know what I mean? Like, you're making knives and you're out there, and and it's always great to have you. So thank you so much for joining me on the show.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [01:01:20]:
We're fine. You and Jim I mean, we I I would like to see more Jim. So

Bob DeMarco [01:01:26]:
but Jim used to be your Jim used to show himself, a lot, and now he prefers to to cut it up backstage, but, we're we're gonna we're gonna bring him out sometime soon.

Matt of the Mattisfaction [01:01:38]:
Thank you, Matt. Oh, well, thanks

Bob DeMarco [01:01:40]:
for having me on. My pleasure, sir. Take care.

Announcer [01:01:53]:
Discover the number one reason why the shockwave torch is the most shocking self defense torch ever. The knifejunkie.com/shockwave. Do you use terms like handle to blade ratio, walk and talk, hair popping sharp, or tank like? Then you are a dork and a knife junkie.

Bob DeMarco [01:02:02]:
There he goes, ladies and gentlemen. Matt of mattisfaction. Can't wait to get my hands on the Orion. That looks really cool. Very much up my alley, especially with that, triangular tip and straight edge. But also the phoenix is so cool. Definitely check it out, and and let's try and help, help him get in touch with Post Malone. He's gotta see this knife, and he's gotta get a couple for himself.

Bob DeMarco [01:02:27]:
Alright. Thanks so much for joining us. Be sure to join us next week for another interview and Wednesday for the midweek supplemental, Thursday for Thursday night night. For Jim working his magic behind the switcher, I'm Bob DeMarco saying until next time. Don't take dull for an answer.

Announcer [01:02:42]:
Thanks for listening to the Knife Junkie podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please rate and review at review the podcast.com. For show notes for today's episode, additional resources, and to listen to past episodes, visit our website, the knifejunkie.com. You can also watch our latest videos on YouTube at the knifejunkie.com/youtube. Check out some great knife photos on the knifejunkie.com / instagram, and join our Facebook group at the knifejunkie.com/facebook. And if you have a question or comment, email them to Bob at the knifejunkie.com or call our 247 listener line at 724-466-4487, and you may hear your comment or question answered on an upcoming episode of the Knife Junkie podcast.