Bob Terzuola Custom Knife Maker and Godfather of the Tactical Folding Knife | Episode 38 of The Knife Junkie Podcast
00:00 - 05:24

A knife that has tactical has to be able to penetrate has to be able to slice. It has to be strong enough to do that. There are some knives saves which people are calling tactical that i don't consider technical welcome to the knife junkie podcast cast your weekly dose of knife news and information about knives and knife collecting. Here's your host. Jim person involved the knife junkie demarco sir hello knife junkies welcome to another episode of the ninth junkie podcast. It's episode number thirty eight and i'm jim person and i'm bob demarco from the knife junkie dot com welcome to the show and welcome to talk with the guy that literally wrote the book bob bob tur zola godfather godfather of the tactical folding knife and yet he did read the book and it's called the tactical folding knife. It's not often you get to say that line. I literally talked to the guy that wrote the book or you know. I literally wrote the book on something but it's true it is true we just we had a great conversation. He's really bob tur wola. He's a wonderful wonderful guy very open and happy to talk about his legacy and the birth of the tactical folding knife and and the things he's brought to the table it was a it was a great conversation our station just remind our listeners that today's podcast is brought to you by quickbooks self-employed. It's your year round. Tax solution is definitely a must have for contractors freelancers. Anybody who's self-employed needs quick books self-employed and if you go to this link the knife chunky dot com slash q._b. Be thirty nine junkies will get a free thirty day. Free trial of quickbooks self-employed so enjoy thirty days for free at the knife junkie dot com slash q._b. Thirty thirty follow the knife jokey on instagram at the knife junkie dot com slash instagram. I'm speaking with bob turns hula the well. If i made the legendary gary godfather of the tactical folder there there are many monikers he gets for his incredible contributions to the folding knife world bob welcome to the knife junkie podcast. Thank you thank you for that introduction. I'm very modest person so i'm a little bit. Put a back when i hear all of these wonderful accolades going on and then again people have said i've got a lot to be modest about. Also i will. I will do my best not to be worshipful. As we were talking before the show started you had a great deal to do with bringing about the the tactical folder which is the the main thing i collect. It's it's it's something i obsess about and so it's an honor to for me to speak with you. Literally wrote the book on the tactical folder. It's called the tactical folding knife. I believe the second edition is coming out soon. Could you define for us. from your perspective what is tactical folder a tactical folder actually tactical tactical knife but specifically fold it's a tool for survival and it can be survival in any one of a number of different venues is it could be in the jungle in nature climbing a mountain the in the desert or it can be in an urban setting up the fear under attack if you're being mugged or even a military setting where it may save a life either by cutting away clothing of a wound or actually old often adversary. It's basically a tool for survival so in in the design of a tactical folder. What are what are the main considerations. There are a number of considerations have probably the primary one is the shape of late and i specifically especially in the new edition of the book. I do have the definition that i've thought about for a long long time. The shape of the blade is really quite important because the blade has to be able to do a number of number one has to be able to cut that is slash slice cut in any kind kind of a situation you would imagine that's what a nicest supposed to do. Com- okay however tactical knife also needs to be able to penetrate that needs to be able to stab or go through pretty tough materials that may the an animal hide it may be a leather jacket may be a body armor. It may be something that is is protective of the person that you are dealing against or could be you know something you may need to punch a hole in a fifty five gallon drums and we've done that you may need to as one of my end-users captain in the florida police department stopped a fleeing a group of felons by puncturing their tire with one of my a._t._c.

05:25 - 10:09

fs mud mud tire murder in the book. It's a short short short so a knife that has tactical has to penetrate has to be able to slice. It has to be strong enough to do that. There are some knives which people are calling tactical that i don't consider one is for example the sheeps chiefs footplate that slopes down from the top forward towards the bottom. That's good for slicing and cutting and slashing. It's not very good for penetrate right the same thing with the kuranda people love the kuranda because it's such a sexy wild looking mean gene looking nice. Okay it really is however i wanna cry to stab through a heavy leather jacket with a ramp and also the blades of karamjit tend to not be particularly robust loop speckling right and it takes a a whole lot of training to get good with great it takes training and and it's it's it's not the kind of knife that you can do a number of tasks yeah if i was going to be dropped in the jungle in fact which i have been when i was in guatemala and panama it's not the knife that i would choose so how was you mentioned guatemala and panama and know that these these locations were were were kenya in your development of the tactical folding knife. How how did you identify a need for that very specific tool not so much in panama. I was in the peace corps there two years i did have some experience in the jungles which i disliked everybody know don't wanna go back to the jungle. Nowadays i guess they call it rain forest or wetland. It sounds so much nicer itself so much nicer but to me. It's still a jungle. I've been there anyway. It was in guatemala and i was is managing. A jade jewellery fat korea had about thirty eight people working for me. What malla has a good deal jade and it's part of the maya heritage that they were jade the jade ornaments and we were producing frank j. various carvings and i made the acquaintance of several people down there among them were four or five marine security guards at the embassy and they came to me with various little since i had kind of a machine shop they came to me with little little jobs to do little things for their m._p. Fives and they were using some who's also cut down some shotgun barrel things like that. I was able to do some little things like that and then they got interested in carrying knives they they showed me the different types of parallel with that and basically at the same time i met met a fellow had bought a house next door. The j. factor is name was jim at he had been a captain in in the army he had quite a history could probably go on for most of the rest of this session just telling you about the gym suffice it to say he had gone to germany metin wife there when he was in the army in the late fifties ladies and early sixties while in germany he went around to all of the nice companies and soling and bought up all of the boxes and barrels and chests of the parts of the german daggers of world war two all of the different tag and he wrote the book. It's a definitive book on the edged weapons of hitler's third reich and he goes into every one of belief thirty six uniform performed daggers some of which were usable most of them were although usable in well mate were uniform decoration.

10:10 - 15:04

You should be that went along with each uniform. That's how hitler got sola gone out of the great depression by decreeing that every uniform would have its own that he brought up the parts ship them back to savannah georgia had people put them back together again and he sold them usually from the back of the men's is magazines like argosy or detective. You probably remember the little one inch square advertisements for the look off autho dagger or the youth dagger so anyway they were all hits. They were genuine just not together. During the war okay alka he owned the house next door the j. pack and we became pretty good for he was also instrumental in bringing weapons in from they root for the country's while i was engaged with him. The rings also another fellow colo popped up named ed cornell who was a sea captain in the one who action brooke weapons over and he and jim at would got to be very good friends and he cornell introduced me to commando lando of five argentine . How would you put it. Operators who were working in el salvador and i did little jobs for them. We did you know clean their guns and stuff like that but they asked me if i would make some nicely because jim atwood had convinced me that using the machinery of the jade factory i could make us us and he loved not obviously all right and took it from there and i designed couple of you've fixed blade zero fix plays but they were all combat knives and then designed some hunting knives and i got half the idea that i thought i would like to join the knife makers gills in the united states so put together a package of knives as the demonstration to the sample. I guess you come up and brought them up to florida to frank center funday who eventually became the president of the hill and then i flew out to california and met bob loveless and asked him to to sign for which he did signed the bill so had you met him before he's a bob loveless legendary knife maker had you met him before no. I hadn't met but we did speak on the telephone and that's another story if you want to hear it in the book. It's how i got my bob loveless night here. i went to my first night. Show not as not as nice maker has visitor at the new york custom knife show of the in the basement of the sheraton hotel the first knife ship and and i was absolutely fascinated with it and i love them and i looked around and i met the number of knife makers there melpar do was one one of them and several other guys and i was just fascinated and i pick up a magazine and i remember from magazine that jim atwood had given me which were called. The american bleed not not the blade magazine the american league when factor the late seventies and i remember with the name bob loveless them. I ask people around there and they said well. He's probably the the guy who started this whole thing you really good his knives really beautiful so i went back to my father's house. I'm from brooklyn my father and mother living in brooklyn. I was staying with him and got on the phone own and i called up loveless descent of a clear blue sky and i got to talk to him we chatted for. I don't know maybe an hour hour and a half a camera member and i ordered a knife was a semi skinner withstand handle and i sent them a two hundred dollar deposit. It don't fall off the chair. The total price of the knife was four hundred single. How 'bout however however. I ahead to wait eleven years before i got all my god eleven years. He had completely forgotten about it. He had written it up. There was a there was a card with the positive he had completely forgotten about it.

15:04 - 20:01

Years later many years later that would have been about nineteen seventy nine or one thousand nine hundred about nineteen eighty-nine. He called me up. We had been communicating. I was in the guilt by now and he asked asked me if i would make him six holding nuts. I said sure i'd love to do that. what model do you want he. He says we'll all design it. She did and that became my model number. Six kind of a worn cliff laid . I believe it was the first folding knife with a duplex grind double grind great relatively small and a half inch blade quarter he designed that was a bottle of design gave him credit my catalog and he said well you send them out to me as it sure i said maybe our lives will cross in the mail he said what do you need and i said well. You know i ordered a knife. Nineteen seventy nine or nineteen nineteen eighty can't remember what he said really you know how loveless really gross person but a heart of gold and absolute integrity and he hung up next day. He called me up ziggy. Noah found your car. You set me the deposit. I'm going to honor that regional price wow i sent them. The two hundred and sixty dollars and he sent me is which i still had what at what an amazing keepsake so you could you could probably call him a mentor for sure absolutely well. He taught me how to had a hollow grind. Also so the the the the group of argentines chains that i met the marine security guards jim atwood at cornell. They all encouraged me continue making these nuts and that's when i got together went up to the states and joined the kill went to my first knife show i guess nineteen eighty to to kansas city and i became a part-time knife maker of apostolic managing the changeover zachary and the the argentine just just love knives that i was making it. I made some other security. People who working down there military and private security what am allah was kind of wild west area as time there was a lot of unrest communists were really kicking coming up a storm and there was a lot of kidnapping going on and then i did some work with private security the companies down there also so that was the genesis of my making military-type tactical nuts so was the need for the folder did that come out of security. The need to be discrete or no. I'll tell you i when i moved back up to the states with my my wife and two boys and i moved to santa fe new mexico nineteen eighty-four. I was still making only six played nuts. I got to know michael walker who invented or created or developed put a liner law. i was fascinated with it because it seemed to be doable with my limited equipment equipment scenery . I didn't have very much and i didn't. I never really want to put that much effort into lock back. Liner locks unlocked back knives not so i liked the liner la went up to michael to visit him and he showed me how to make them and gave me permission to use them and he and i re- period of time with the only ones making liner lock nuts the reason i actually got into full it is because i realized at some point remember now. I was no longer managing the job factory. When i moved up to santa the mexican in nineteen eighty-four became a full-time knife me that was my only source of income and i realized that that time that people have more pockets that may have belts so i realize the future was going to be in folding us rather than six lights. It's and i hesitated a lot on the folding knives until i could meet michael and get up with with him in towels and he showed me how to make minor underlaw and i decided that way it was going to go and i came up with to design my model number one which i call the utility it's kind of the square point kind of a straight handle. and i knew sal glossary time from spider co and i was very impressed with the idea of a pocket.

20:02 - 25:23

I realize the pocket clip really really handy so incorporated my first ones used spider coll- happiness i got them from spider co after while he was putting spider coal and their logo on the clips which i probably ground off and continued using them for a period of time so i came the design which i call the utility model number one and then the model number two which was a sheep's foot mariner mariner knife in those two knives basically formed the beginning of my folding knife career. You're known for some innovations. i know you were a very very very early. Adopter the pocket clip. I guess probably the second person or the first person to use it on accustomed life. what other innovations it came out of your early experimentation you've seen the thumb disk on top of blades the neural thumbed that was my invention. I really didn't like the stud the thumb stud remote. I and i still use them on some custom knives when i make them out of gold or something like that but generally speaking i wanted a a way of opening the nyc with either thumb left hand to write. It and i want to go on both sides of the knife so i came up with this set into a groove. The top of the blade michael walker actually started using titanium but i guess when right after him he and i were the only two using titanium ibew. I was the first knife maker to use laser. A laser cut my blank parts out. Let me back up a second. What was it about ten caning in that initially during the first thing that drew me in was the exotic nature of the material at that time in the early mid eighties titanium wasn't exorbitant here it was not and it had it had quite a would you call maybe panache or it hasn't had a a people had a vision of it that it was pure space age right okay hand the fact that i was able to use laser cut it out. Remember goldfinger was s. Everybody's introduction the industrial laser people do what what laser actually did so. I had some put parts on the table titanium parts of them on my table. At a show you know just right off the laser. People look at them absolutely fascinated that you know the space space age technology not only material but in manufactoring cutting out and for me of course it it was a godsend because i didn't have to use a millions of dance oblique ranked right behind a band so the worst thing of world so oh. I guess i was one of the first news i was the first to you g ten on a folder as handle matured really kevin mclaughlin was was actually the first person to discover g ten but he only made six blades completely out of g ten and the one that i saw at that time which would have been probably late eighties he called the frequent flyer okay so these were knives made completely completely energy-intensive you could stash and make your way through metal detectors exactly yeah however i saw it as a really good griffey he lightweight strong handle material so i was the first one to you g ten hand let's see some on this titania his attention one of the first to use carbon fiber actually a friend of mine who had an injection should molding plant in romeo michigan frank. He has permission to copy my a._t. C._f. in a molded plastic material and he molded them left and right with it would have had a titanium spring in the middle but he did the left and right parts and a plastic and that usually they use nylon with thirty percent glass filler glass to strengthen the material he actually used carbon fiber and as far as i know it was the first first time that any kind of carbon fibre was used in a knife in and that would've been oh maybe eighty nine maybe nineteen ninety somewhere around around there so one of your famous models is the a._t._c.

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f- what is what does that stand for. Tell me a little bit about that and and remark a little a little bit about the design to mean. It's it's what's the word perfect. Yeah i mean. It's something like the handle is they. Were just tell me. Tell me a little bit about that. Doesn't it originally started out as the model number three so i had model model number one model number two of the mariner and that was model number and it was kind of inspired by l. Mars sear he came came up with a knife called the s. e. r. e. for the program of survival escape survival evasion an resistance and escape right. I may have that in the wrong order. I don't know but something anyway. I knew al it was pretty a good friend of mine. I really enjoyed working with him. Knowing the seer was a good night. It didn't have too much finger finger protection to it. It was pretty heavy. and it didn't have all the qualities that i thought good holy. Holy shit have lightweight easily accessible. were to qualities that it didn't have. I really thought report has no clip clip on that right. No yes anyway i worked and worked on the model number three and i decided on the basics pierpoint clip on the top it wouldn't be sharpened on the top because it's hard to do that unless you bury the blade completely in the handle and i didn't wanna do that too bulky and ah but it did have a clip grind on the top and the other thing i think i came up with an i don't remember seeing it anywhere else and i'm not sure that anybody elsa ever done it before his i had the the serrated thumb ramp no the top of the blade and it made it when the blade was closed with kind of protrusion that everybody is using now kind of a finger protection kind of like a guard almost like a little little hill something like that and when the blade was open you have the serrated some ramp at the top and the he kind of half guard singer protection bottom hacked in almost like a full hills full guard on a folding knife right and i had i had i don't know how i came up with that but i just i just playing around with a couple of pieces of clear plastic making in growing up and that's the way i did him out though i think i was i think that was an innovation that i did also the spear your point kind of a fairly wide blade i liked the hollow grind as opposed to a flank right if it slices it's not quite as robust as a flat grind but it slices entra slashing ashamed slicing and cutting especially out in the field. If you're skidding deer or something like that you want something that'll be fairly fairly thin but robust muster. is a spine down the center of the blade. we want something strong enough to resist breakage but find find enough do delicate cutting the titanium of course like i said lightweight very strong. The other factor about titanium which is important is it has so much spring to it. It's it's recovery rate. His is really great. I mean you can bend it all the way in one direction or another direction. It'll come back to work. So is it safe to assume assume that a a lilac made out of titanium rather than steel is going to be springer longer no you could say it will be screen in your longer. I think you can say that for a thinner. He's of material you can get the same amount of spring and strength that you would out of a thicker piece stainless steel catching which is heavier also your which is which is heavy now.

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I've made a all of my models. I've i made with the original a._t._f. Which by the way it was advanced technology combat holder the original one had titanium indium side to side and titanium spring them that and a lot of people. Ask me how this is so. It's it's off center senator. Why don't you put the same stuff on both sides of the of the blades well. Why is there's really no knee. High taint. Him is so strong. I just need a piece on one side to act the handle. One peace in the middle will act as the spring and another piece on the other side to act as another handle an anchor for the clip. Why would i have to put a four piece in there. Yeah just make thicker and heavier if anybody didn't like the off center design of the by what impact impact has the mt c._f. Had in the modern combat tactical knife that seems to be the knife that in the eagle rock iraq or or your two greatest most beautiful knives venue you're welcome and also seemed to be the ones that i hear other people talk about the most what do you think it is about those two in particular that resonate with people the a._t._c. probably because it was it was the beginning of the john mara and we actually made some patients that had drawing done by a really good friend of ours lydia roberts of the a._t._c. f- completed in various parts behind it and the legend is the classic shape the the shape in industry and a sub-regional rather. I thought that really fit so many people have copied it making little variations here and there and a little bit you know but you see the serrated thumb rampant the top. We'll see disk. You'll see the . The finger guard the kind of area which is very similar. you know a lot of knife makers are and they're they're. You're welcome to it. You know i never patented it. I never got a design patent but i was just happy to see that it was a design that people people could use on a daily basis in carry it around with them and it would perform a variety of functions pretty much whatever they were doing. I have never held one of either one of those but they strike me as meaning neutral in the perfect perfect way neutral to the hand in that you can use it in any grip and yet you still have the reassurance that if you have to thrust with it you you have proper a protection for your fingers but in reverse grip or or edge in any of those it looks like any grip is comfortable and two min you're talking about this is being a knife that can be used in so many different situations whether it's self defense or dropped in the woods that you definitely want that sorta neutral aspect. There's also a little bit of that also with the blade. It's not a crazy blade design. It just looks perfect. Now i saw a video you're talking about how you get the profiles of the blade laser cutter water jetted out but you do all of the grinding including the main pebbles and everything tell tell me but does that result in slightly different knives each time as a uniqueness there . I'm sure there are certain variations. I've gotten pretty good at at a ah grinding i would say you know in the earlier earlier years of doing the a._t._c. f or any of the holders let's say up through the nineties and so forth i would go to a show with maybe ten or fifteen of the a._t._c. athens. Maybe thirty not only get ten or fifteen would be a._t._c. S the other one would be. They were pretty consistent. Insist designs of the the the workmanship of of the blade pretty good. I'm pretty good in the past. Oh i don't know six or seven years have gotten a little bit tired of doing many of the same thing so i'm really kind of concentrating concentrating on unique designs one of a kind almost all one of a kind now when i go to a show i try not to bring two of the same thing that's so cool. You know that having said that having said that this is my seventy fifth year seventy five this year so oh susan i came the actually susie came up with the idea of making seventy five nine was calling at seventy five for the seventy five and they are they have to dragons one looking forward and one looking behind with a seventy five in the middle and and i'm actually doing seventy five.

35:33 - 40:00

This year is cool. It's cool. It's also i gotta say it's. It's kinda boring daunting okay but it is it is it is a unique type of thing another unique thing that i'm doing when i was fifty every knife that i may that year had a goal in the fiftieth birthday this year every knife that i'm making as a diamond get outta here seriously wow i put it even further out of reach for doing this on television. Show them to you he the the one of a kind knives lives that i'm bringing to shows have a cut diamonds in goals cops that they're basically a what what are called single diamond earrings like a basil visit this word okay anyway. I got a bunch of those. Those go in the in the unique ones the seventy five into the back spacer. I'm setting a diamond cube you. They're they're rough. Humid diamond crystals the not very big. They're about thirty seconds later the ninety thousand cross but very visible and they're going into the spacer of each one. I finished about twenty six twenty seven vote now. So who who is your customer now. I'm assuming this is going to argentinian commandos. Actually only only two of them survived their time down there he had three of the were ambushed on the way out of guatemala anyway no i have a collector's individual people who collect my knives and i have a couple of really really big have one collector who has over one hundred sixty of mine is now the while has one hundred fifteen and and another one in chicago has seventy or sixty or seventy something like that i do sell to people may me now on the internet and a couple of shows i have an internet internet have an instagram feed that has about twenty two thousand followers and usually when i put a knife up it goes within the short period of time i would have met we put up the seventy five knives actually a few fewer than that 'cause. I've got friends and family that help to get got a couple of them right. I think we all sixty eight of them. The first day wow so i wanna talk a little bit about the collaborations super and over the years and also the ones there a couple of exciting. What's happening right now with 'em k._m. With drop okay tell me a little bit about working collaboratively. We've been custom knife maker. your most of your career working in your shop. What's it like working with the opposite a massive company it depends on the company and i've had some super really good experiences and some not so good experience. the first one i did was with spider coat met with nineteen eighty nine that was a really important nice call the seat fifteen and sal lesser and i decided that time for spectacle to start doing collaboration with a couple of nights nager there there were a number of people that he had approach they had basically turned down because they didn't wanna make a knife with a hole in the late that spider coz. I guess you're a trademark kind of the trademark yeah the whole. I'll give you a very brief idea of what the c fifteen was . It was just it was a relatively small knife a hole in the blade. It was the first commercial knife to we made of a._t._s.

40:01 - 45:01

thirty four which was became a standard later on not at that time nineteen eighty-nine every every night that was commercially made with being stance. You can't stamp a._t._s. Thirty four to so was also the first night that use laser or soft tooling cut the blades that was the first commercial knife have a._t._s. thirty four first laser. It was the first commercial knife yuji ten. It was the first commercial liner lock in the world. The spider codemax. We got couldn't find anybody to make them. We looked around. We finally found less de assis asses. You know the name yeah bench made exactly that night started the bench made knife coming out that he didn't have the bench nate knife company at the time he had he didn't have any except a storefront in. I think it was oregon or in washington. I can't remember where and that knife this is. I venture into liner locks. The whole all the first line a lot in the world that was commercially made and became he went on from there to build the bench made life so if you had to get tactical knife from a manufacturer who do you think then factor the tactical mindset interestingly singly enough we knives in china who are making the drop knives are one of the best of i mean. They're they're. They're workmanship is superb. Boker does excellent beautiful work in germany. i would have . I would have to think about too many others will you mentioned really haven't thought about that that an answer to that question kind of an unusual i i can understand that in europe also kind of in in rarified air you brought up we knives and we and riyadh and right can best tech and a and a number of these very high tight end chinese manufacturers are putting out knives that are outstanding in terms of their finishing engineering and and designed. I feel that that these new companies that are producing these sort of somewhat inexpensive high end knives our how are they affecting the market. We've seen a shift in the market towards let's say away from higher end more expensive custom one of a kind nuts and part of this is that that because of the internet because of the high quality knives are coming in oven inexpensive nature knives knives aren't being collected as they used there are fewer people buying knives lives keep them in a collection having some sort of a unified concept of a collection all knives of one nice maker all caramba knives or nine of you know all sheep's foot blade knives from twenty different makers however you want to create a collection people now a lot of people especially the younger generation. They're buying knives from custom knife makers to see how fast the and make a profit. My feeling is that after a period of time and that's going to fall apart because you can only flip a nice profit a certain number of us. What's pretty soon you reach a point like musical chairs where nobody wants to buy at that price or the hustle i put the reputation of the maker falls apart which has happened and i've seen that it's become it's become a more difficult market passably because of the influx of many many cheap knives. There's also an influx of many many young knife. Makers knew nitric. Thanks for coming in and buying c._n._c. Melts doing them automatically doing a lot of work automatically.

45:02 - 50:03

Were they could make a lot of knives relatively inexpensively in their garage literally you can you can unbiased c._n._c. milling machine from haas oh you'd when i guess for twenty thousand dollars maybe even less and start turning out multiples of the same night now. The advantage of cnc mill c._n._c. Machine is that you can make a hundred of the same nuts. The drawback is that you have to make a hundred of the same pay for the machine right. It's not it's not really. It's not something where you can just make one knife and then go on and make another nice you can use it as a tool but it's it's not as efficient sufficiency is in production. I i feel like that's the sort of thing that you have to have a couple of ducks in a row before you you make that c._n._c. Commitment a you have to you have to know that you love coding and that you're you're really a you know. You're going to figure out exactly what your or limits are with the with the software because there's a lot of soft. It's a lot of computer work involved and then you better not just be making this a hobby. You better make make a go of it because he had those machines are extremely expensive. True is it is so what is your production. Process look like well. I have a blank carts cut from titanium and steel basically what i call generic parts sometimes call them coupons. What's for example. The handle will be a rectangle with a whole him and i'll use two of those could make the hand i'll do is i'll draw on there with a sharpie and screw the two of them together. The proper places lining lining up the whole the whole of the pivotal everything everything in folding knives is gauged and reference pivotal do have the pivotal done by water. These coupons are made by water. Jets basically a rectangular piece about the length a little bit wider than i lineup the pivot holes drawn with a sharpie cut it out on the band saw. Basically i do the same the thing with blades except instead of cutting out on the van saw high cut it out on the grinder goes. I do all my work. in the harden garden state he plays and i don't use a computer. I don't have . I don't so much about computers at my age. You know decided. It's a learning curve that i really never wanted to get into it. I mean i do use computers smartphone phone. I've got an ipad just like everybody in the world has but i don't have you know the programs to do drawing and whatever they call them what i do. Is i still use a pencil and paper. If i'm going to grow it on a pencil and paper on a on a piece of art or . I'll get the coupons as i said the titanium coupons the air about oh maybe four and a half long about an inch in three quarters quarters wide and i'll hit it with sharpie and we go start grinding and cutting away. That's you know every once in a while. I come up with a design that you know i get about three quarters finished and say well you know. I don't really like that one that much. One of my philosophies is never throw away a knife. Just make the smaller yeah. I can grind away that stuff that you don't like and yeah and eventually it will. I have to say it's it's inspirational to hear how much hand work goes into the fact that you're driving out with a sharp. You're cutting things out the band so unfortunately i've never even held one of your lives in my hand but but now knowing a little bit more of how much of your view goes into each and every knife i i can't wait for the day that that i am. I hope you can i will. I have to say one kathy. Ah for these seventy five knives i'm doing i am having the handle parts cut out in shape. I couldn't those out on the bench so that would be crazy crazy. I think that that can be forgiven. That is the tried and true shape. It's not changing at this point. Okay let someone else so so you have the seventy five. A._t._f.'s jeff's tell everybody about some other exciting projects right now if they want to get into a bob zula designed knife if they can't get one from your custom shop what other projects have gone on well.

50:04 - 55:14

We've got a couple with . Drop me made by we. There is an a._t._c. f. tanto blade coming out a relatively shortly. I can't give you a date because i just don't know it but we did get a couple of samples. Also the superbly made really nice. I like them. They're not the full full full size or a little bit smaller for. I guess you would call it every day. Carry look. They're also working on corruption. Not my favorite design fine. I was basically coerced into but i did think it would be an interesting idea interesting project. I did want to try my hand at it to see if i could do it came up with a fairly decent one who gonna call the dragon's claw how sweet i look forward to checking that that bob tercel karambi. We've got some more with m._k. A._m. And with fox they have a nice folder and . We've just gave him a few more. Fix plays at the blade show doing and we're going to be doing some work directly with we. I'll cool in china because i have such great respect for him. I really do they are they. They are sincere in the work they do this. I was i was before we wrap. I was recently speaking with elliot and chris williamson of firm forge and something that is very interesting to me about how they do. Things sounds like what you're doing is making taking the high end custom things by hand in the shop that never goes away doing things in a mass collaboration sort of scenario like with with drop or there are and then what they also have their their midtech their mid line pro series where they worked directly with weak and and they're producing their designs. I think it's a really smart way to go about things from a business perspective and it's great for us the buyers who are are smitten with your designs but you know can't quite get into one right now joe. I understand. I love it. I i'm. I'm really happy with this new way. ah are being made into a very impressed with elliott's carvings i've seen him. I've then at his place when he was doing carpet and i've seen him do them and it's it's. It requires a lot more patients than i spoken to say you know from from jade carver carver you know that's that's a pretty good. That's a pretty good compliment. Well bob drizzle a i could i could go on and on and and hear more stories of but first. Let's do it. Thank you so much. You're more than welcome bob so happy to talk to you. We can do it again. Some time and you know talk about other things that would be great that would be great other things as long as they revolved somewhat around pocket knives such great. Thank you so much my pleasure ever start looking for your next knife purchase before your last purchases even arrived then. You're probably a knife junkie. Welcome back to the knife chunky podcast interesting conversation with bob bob treasury wola if i got that right bob demarco yeah. You didn't need bob and bob on this this week show what what was your big takeaway. Where'd you where'd to get out of your conversation with the other bob. Well you know the the biggest takeaways were just kind of discovering who i was actually talking to you know all these all all these things i take for for granted or a you know from the materials that are common place in knives titanium and features like the ambidextrous fum disc for opening the knives liner locks. He was the first one to pump that out in the in the tactical world borrowing it from michael walker just talking to a guy like bob toys willa. It just makes me grateful. you know this is the guy who basically invented the thing i collect and i'm sure he would. He would humbly a . Turn away from that that that statement but it's true if he weren't around maybe you you be collecting. I dunno watches. I don't know god and that's not even expensive yeah. I i just have to say it is also a fantasy of my to have either one of those seventy fifth anniversary a t. C. fs has his most famous knife. I guess you'd say or a stag handled a._t._f. I mean when the other thing about speaking with him is that he's still making everything by hand. He's still drawing things out. This legend is still drawing things out in scharping cutting it out out by hand on his band saw and making every night by hand down to the smallest detail and that's that's part of what keeps its value and to have one click with a stack handled so well you know custom knife made by hand.

55:14 - 57:27

I mean yeah. You're talking about talking about value their time there but you know it's going to be done right yep and it's going gonna have seoul in it. Yeah well. one final thing we we started off the show talking about the guy who wrote the book and he did the tactical folding knife a study of the anatomy anatomy and construction of the liner funked folder. I wonder if he got paid by the number of words he could use in the title but but i did a quick you know google searches coaches. We were as we were chatting. Are you chatting with with bob. if you'd like to pick up one of those books i go for anywhere from four hundred to eight hundred dollars but good news is he's coming up with an updated version or a new book yeah sometime soon yet will the the original version is out of print as many books do but he's this will be the updated version and i'm not exactly sure when it's coming up but when it does i'd love to have him back on the show just to promote it and talk about some of the updates and and really it's kind out of interesting to just to see definitions. Put on things you know you see the products in the industry just keep advancing and becoming more and more interesting and futuristic and it's always good to tie it back to the origins well and we'll end with this reminds you that the knife junkie podcast can also be listened to on youtube a tube go to the knife junkie dot com slash youtube and if you want to see a lot of great knife pictures check out the knife junkie dot com slash instagram gonna wrap it up for episode number thirty eight of the knife junkie podcast. I'm jim person and for bob demarco. We want to say thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to the ninth junkie podcast. If you enjoyed enjoy the show please rate and review review the podcast dot com for show notes for today's episode additional resources to listen to past episodes visit our website the nyc junkie dot com you can also watch our latest videos on youtube at the ninth jokey dot com slash youtube check out some great night photos on the knife junkie dot com slash instagram him and join our facebook group but the knife junkie dot com slash facebook and if you have a question or comment emailed them to bob at the night jokey dot com or call our twenty four seven listener listener line that's seven two four four six six four four seven and you may hear your comment or question answered on an upcoming episode of the knife junkie podcast.