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Announcer
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast, your weekly dose of knife news and information about knives and knife collecting. Here's your host, Bob the knife junkie DeMarco

Bob DeMarco [00:00:15]:
Welcome to the Knife Junkie podcast. I'm Bob DeMarco. On this edition of the show, I'm speaking with Chas and John Fisher of Fisher Blades. A few years back, the brothers Fischer decided to leverage their many combined years in the knife industry to form their own company. John brought his experience hand making custom knives for hunters and outdoorsmen, and Chaz brought his experience in the c suites of numerous knife world giants to form Fisher blades. With their first knife from this venture, the Beckwith Covert, a huge success, they are honing in on expanding their production knife line while capitalizing on the handmade nature of their custom work. We'll dig in and find out what that looks like, but first, be sure to like, comment, subscribe, hit the notification bell, and download the show to your favorite podcast app.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:04]:
Also, if you'd like to help support the show, you can do so by heading on over to the knifejunkie.com/patreon, or you can scan the QR code on your screen. Again, that's the knifejunkie.com /patreon. Adventure delivered.

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Bob DeMarco [00:01:30]:
Chas and John, it's a pleasure to see you guys.

Chas and John Fisher [00:01:33]:
Good to see you.

Chas and John Fisher [00:01:34]:
Super good to be on the show again, Bob. This is one of my favorite shows on on the socials.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:39]:
Oh, I like to hear that. Internets. I was just oh, hey, buddy. And you got a got a friend who just woke up. To the shop, dog. Clayton,

Bob DeMarco [00:01:47]:
don't lie down, buddy. Go on. Awesome.

Bob DeMarco [00:01:49]:
Oh, and he's well behaved. Well, it was really great to actually meet you guys in person and shake your hands, this past June at Blade Show. I actually, scored, the hat that John's wearing, and it's, it's it's on my head, on the regular. It's it lives in my car as a matter of fact. But it was really great to meet you guys in person and, and, you know, watching you press the flesh at Plateau. What was that like for you guys to be there for the first time together?

Chas and John Fisher [00:02:18]:
Well, we've worked together in the past, and we've done trade shows in the past, not for Fischer blades really, but, I thought it was great. It's, really, really cool to get in front of people who for whom knives are important and who care about knives and who are interested in what we're doing and to learn about what's important to them, you know? So I thought it was great and like I said, we'll probably talk a little bit about it, but working with my brother is-

Bob DeMarco [00:02:44]:
No, it was good. You know, it was a transition this last year from doing from me doing the customs to then transitioning to a production knife. But that didn't really affect, Blade Show so much, other than the fact that it was a real success. So we were interacting with a lot of customers, which is always great. Really appreciate the feedback, talking to people, what they want, you know, what they're looking for, what they think about the Blade, you know, the Beckwith Covert, stuff like that is really important to us. We like to keep in touch with our customers and, we might not give them exactly what they want, but we do listen to them and try to, you know, plan our stuff to to to what people might want or expect.

Bob DeMarco [00:03:33]:
Yeah. I mean, it it seems like it's a super, super good, policy to kinda get out there, meet your audience or meet your customers, and find out what they want just so you can, take the pulse. And like you said, it doesn't mean you're gonna you're gonna, submit to every whim, you know, from your customers, but it's really good to to take the pulse. I'm curious because I've spoken to a number of people, recently who, make knives that are like the Beckwith Covert. I am holding up your new, FDE version, which is absolutely stunning. This has actually gotten more carry than the other 2, kinda surprisingly because I like black, but I also have to wear a lot of khaki at work. And this kinda blends in a little bit nicer, I gotta say, for, for that. But but the fact that this is a dedicated EDC self defense knife, and I say EDC because it's meant to be carried every day, but it's not for opening boxes and and that kind of thing.

Bob DeMarco [00:04:34]:
It's for it's for fighting off bad guys, so to speak. What what did you find or what do you find, from people? What's their reaction to the very dedicated purpose of this?

Chas and John Fisher [00:04:47]:
Well, I'll I'll talk a little bit first. First of all, I'll I'll say that we call we don't call it EDC, defensive carry. I call it, defensive daily carry. To sort of differentiate from EDC, right? And, that way there's really no confusion with it.

Bob DeMarco [00:05:02]:
Yeah.

Chas and John Fisher [00:05:03]:
And, you know, I think that the the response we've gotten on it, you know, as you know, we've talked about it before, has been very, very positive. I do will admit though that many people are not truly using it. You know, they're using it as an EDC, and and that's fine. You know, it's not like it can't be used for that. You know, hell, it's a it's a sharp edge. Right? And, and so I'd say that the response has been really good. I think most people understand why we did what we did. As you know, we've talked about before, it's got sort of a set of very express, intentful design features for what it's supposed to do, but that doesn't mean it can't open your your boxes or, you know, cut string or whatever.

Chas and John Fisher [00:05:46]:
Right? Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:05:48]:
Oh yeah, certainly does that well.

Chas and John Fisher [00:05:51]:
And I think the design, you know, when you're talking about a very, very narrow focused design, it's a double edged sword, no pun intended, in the sense that in one way it's easier to achieve your goal because you have a very narrow focus. But at the same time, because you have such a narrow focus, one thing can get you off track and make the knife really terrible. So I think people have really responded to, the majority, the great majority of the design was my brother's. I helped here and there with some stuff, but he's the designer. He did such a great job designing it that it fits the purpose so well that our our the feedback has just been fantastic. We do get people who want a larger version in the works, among some other knives in the works. But we've gotten a really great reaction because we just, I think we hit the bull's eye on our intent. Now of course hand size, all that makes a difference, and we've had some people who just simply feel like it's too small for them or whatever, but the great majority, I think we've really nailed it, and people really have appreciated that and let us know.

Chas and John Fisher [00:07:14]:
Yeah, I'll add another thing to that. I think, you know, we're not, we're not positioning the Beckwith Covert as the one and, you know, only solution to a set of problems that anybody might have for defensive daily carry. We know that, you know, we made we made this knife. You know, there's there's my FDE version here. We made it for people who are, who really want to power cut and power slash with with their knife when they're using it for defensive purposes, there is a whole other set of people that wanna stab with their knives. And so it's not like you can't stab with the covert, but it's not expressly made for that. It is expressly made for power slashing and power cutting. And so, we think that there's a lot of room still for the whole discrete, you know, small form factor defensive daily carry, knife for other knife designs too.

Chas and John Fisher [00:08:11]:
And we have both coming, you know, and we've got the larger format, as as my brother said. So, yeah, that's kind of getting off topic a little bit, but I wanted to make it clear that we're not putting this forward, the covert forward as, the ultimate. It is It is a solution to a set of problems, not, not the solution to all problems.

Bob DeMarco [00:08:31]:
Well, I mean, we talked about this last time a little bit, but I just wanna reiterate, you're talking about power cutting and power slashing. With the combination of the shape of the handle, the arc at the top of the handle, and this, the thumb ramp and then the slight downward raking of the blade already, when it's in your hand in this, sabre posture, it Yeah.

Chas and John Fisher [00:08:55]:
It

Bob DeMarco [00:08:55]:
it presents this secondary tip, and this angle here almost acts as a recurve. So, yeah, you can get a lot of, power out of, like, a pressure cut or Yeah. Or or something like that. But but also, I mean, that tip, it's it's a pretty exceptional thruster

Chas and John Fisher [00:09:10]:
as well. Yeah. That that, tanto intersection, as we call it, you you get, you get pressure applied to that, so that that's gonna get extra penetration on your cuts. And as and I I don't like calling it slashing, because slashing, implies more superficial Uh-huh. Yeah. Shallow shallow cuts, which, you know, don't really do that much. You really have to get to more important elements of the anatomy to, make a difference. Right? And so that is why the the tanto does so well with that.

Chas and John Fisher [00:09:40]:
We talked about that with the pig carcass test that we've done. We demonstrated that pretty unequivocally that it does it.

Bob DeMarco [00:09:47]:
John, coming from the outdoors world and also coming from, handmade custom, knife, paradigm, what's it like to switch gears temporarily? I mean, this isn't switching all the gears, but Sure. What's it like to work on a knife like this, which is made in a different process and is also has a different intention?

Chas and John Fisher [00:10:11]:
It's great in a lot of ways. There are only so many designs of a bushcraft knife that I think can be made. I think there's a finite number and me and all the people I've been around, I feel like we've almost, you know, we've done them all. So to do a knife, a fighting knife, was really interesting to me. I I don't have knife fighting experience, so it's been a real education for me, and and and because of that, it's fun because I'm learning so much about it. So it's been great to learn about it and to kind of delve into the whole design of a knife for fighting or for defense or, you know, for that, rather than for bushcraft or outdoor hunting. So it's been great. I've been really enjoying delving into the history of biting knives and the such, so it's been great.

Bob DeMarco [00:11:13]:
You guys alluded to the fact that that, well, you have a larger version that that that's in the works, but there are other knives in the offing in kind of a, a a new line. So, it seems to me from what you said, Chaz, in our in our texting a few weeks back that it's it's emerging, of a couple of different ways of making and and designing knives. So what did what were you alluding to?

Chas and John Fisher [00:11:41]:
You you mean in terms of Fisher blades as a whole? Yes. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. So, you know, and I'm gonna probably I'm gonna touch on maybe more than your question asks, but

Bob DeMarco [00:11:51]:
Please do.

Chas and John Fisher [00:11:52]:
My brother and I have been having fun together and irritating each other our whole lives. And,

Chas and John Fisher [00:11:59]:
Well, my whole life. He's 7 years older, if you can believe that. So we had 7 years of peace before I came along.

Chas and John Fisher [00:12:07]:
And we each we each have our own set of disciplines and things that we pursued in life with some overlap, you know, especially thematically, you know, involving adventure and danger, you know, dangerous things and stuff like that. We have, very solid overlap on some things. We've done a lot of of, dual sport motorcycle riding together. And, so we're really used to to having fun together and like I said, you know, aggravating each other, which is its own kind of fun. And, and we both have our separate worlds of of of, our own paths that we've taken in the knife world. And so, his path through Handmade and my path through production, and all of our time together, you know, dual sport riding or shooting or whatever else it is that we happen to be doing, we were always talking about how different they were. And it it occurred to each of us, I think, maybe not simultaneously, and I don't wanna speak for you, but it occurred to me that that there is a way to to merge those two things, to hybridize those things in a way that we don't think has really been done, or at least not done super well, or not done the way we wanna do them. My my brother has some of the most exquisite eye to detail and quality that I've ever seen in anybody, and, which is great for handmade knives, and it can be problematic, as you probably know, for the production world.

Chas and John Fisher [00:13:35]:
But we thought if we could figure out a way to combine the best of both of our experiences, both from our experiences in life, but also, from our knife experience into one that we would create something that's pretty cool. And so far, it's been awesome, and we're really stoked on it. So I I don't know if that answers your question or not, but that's kinda what brought us here.

Bob DeMarco [00:13:59]:
Oh, yeah. No. I mean, I well, first of all, you you're talking about the both, the best of both experiences. Yeah. And, you know, I know that that has to do with, both your business experience and your hand making experience and your fighting experience and your hunting experience, and I'm sure there's plenty of overlap there too. But when it comes to designing new knives and coming up with ideas for, you know, new, concepts, what's the meeting of the minds there?

Chas and John Fisher [00:14:33]:
Well, I'll interject here. You know, I at at one time, I was doing kinda high end custom furniture. I was a woodworker, so I would do, you know, an 8 foot maple table, you know, 3 inches thick, you know, expensive, difficult, going back and forth with a with a customer. And, you know, with with something like, with that, the the the the detail is everything. And really less of a process to me than it is attitudes. So when when he and I are are going over design, whether it originates from me or from him, we both, you know, interact with each other on the design, but I'm looking at it from kind of a handmade, point of view, where I see every little thing that is a flaw, so to speak. My brother, having been in the production, looks at things at scale, you know, how to do this, and so we sort of go on opposite ends to some degree, and by doing that we're able to compromise in a very good way, I think. Because obviously you can't have the level of a custom knife on a production knife without it being as much as the cost of a custom knife.

Chas and John Fisher [00:16:08]:
So there are things that you have to let go. It's very difficult for me to let go of certain things, it's difficult for my brother to satisfy me on certain things, but it's that sort of constant butting heads, not really, but sometimes, from different areas that get us to a really solid place. On the actual design part of it, it, you know, having made a lot of knives, it's important to have made knives when you're designing them because you can foresee the problems that production will have. Both my mother, when I was a woodworker, would ask me to build something for her and it was the most intricate, difficult thing to do. Couple years ago, the kind of the first round of my brother's designs on a fighting knife were nearly impossible to make with the tools I have. It's like this family has to come up with the most difficult designs in the world. So anyway, we, you know, I think we take both sides of that and try to come up with something that that makes sense, has very high quality, and is also efficient to produce and manufacture at scale. He's being pretty diplomatic about the

Chas and John Fisher [00:17:37]:
butting heads. Yeah, we've had a few, we but it's it's good it's good tension. Right?

Chas and John Fisher [00:17:44]:
There are holes in walls. There are

Chas and John Fisher [00:17:46]:
holes in walls at Fisher Place.

Bob DeMarco [00:17:49]:
Well, that's exactly the word I was gonna use, tension. Creative tension is so key

Chas and John Fisher [00:17:53]:
There you go.

Bob DeMarco [00:17:54]:
In in creating anything. And, oftentimes, it's a sole creator at their at their drafting table, so to speak, or their or their typewriter, so to speak. And and the creative tension is within, but if you have someone to bounce stuff off of, I'm blessed with Jim, on this show, you know, and and just having a partner that knows what you're after but also, gives you reality checks and vice versa, it's a it's a it's a blessing.

Chas and John Fisher [00:18:24]:
Well, just just to, you know, add a little bit more, depth to it. Every, you know, all all the knives that we've designed, and, you know, right now, you've only seen one that's come into production, but we've got, you know, probably 4 or 5 that are in Yeah, cool knife. That have moved past the actual design phase and a few more that are in the design phase. We always start with what we call purpose first design. So we spend a lot of time talking about what the knife is supposed to be for.

Chas and John Fisher [00:18:52]:
Yeah, we rip each other to shreds. I mean, and we want that. Yeah. If I have a design, I mean, I'm begging him to just rip it apart, tell me what's wrong. What sucks? What might suck, what will be difficult for someone with small hands or big hands or whatever, and I do the same and it really makes us have to justify our design choices. And having worked so much together and being brothers, we can also, even with our tension, recognize when the other is correct most of the time.

Chas and John Fisher [00:19:32]:
That's only because we're really old now.

Chas and John Fisher [00:19:34]:
Yeah, we've gone through it enough to where we're tired of fighting on every single issue, so we just pick every 10th issue. But no, it is that experience. I think a lot of business owners don't have that, or they're very lucky if they have people or partners with that sort of interchange between them. We trust each other, he can convince me and I will never think about it again. I'll go, You're right about that, we'll change that. And I don't, there's no resentment, there's no, you know, second thoughts about it. It's like if we make a decision and it's based on good logic, we've just moved forward on it. And if it my my mine has changed, that's great.

Chas and John Fisher [00:20:19]:
Sometimes it's my brother's.

Bob DeMarco [00:20:20]:
And you're not burdened, seemingly, you're not burdened by office politics or or or, you know, corporate HR telling you you can't, call your brother a son of a son of a bitch or something like that?

Chas and John Fisher [00:20:33]:
If it were like that, we wouldn't be doing it. That's one of the reasons why we're doing this is because we we don't have that that big corporate kind of culture.

Chas and John Fisher [00:20:42]:
At least once a week I call him an asshole, and he calls me 1 too. Oh,

Bob DeMarco [00:20:46]:
man. Brothers. So you you talked about, you have 4 or 5, designs that are in the works at at some stage of development, and you also mentioned that everything is purpose first, when you design. So, can you tell us, some of the we know the purpose of the Beckwith. Can you tell us some of the purposes of the of the other knives, coming and and kinda give us a a, a little, once over, a quick and dirty, however you wanna call it? Because I'm sure you're not gonna be showing off anything that hasn't been revealed yet. But I'd love to know what, you know, in the minute details or or, the subtleties, what the different purposes are and, you know,

Chas and John Fisher [00:21:27]:
what what you're thinking.

Chas and John Fisher [00:21:29]:
Well, we've got you know, I'll I'll speak to some of the ones that have been my brain children, and then and then my brother has some that he's he's been pushing. But we've got another Beckwith knife coming. You know, Beckwith is a family, and, it is like we said, but you you know, we've even sneak peeked this on on a few of our shop updates. It's a larger format of of the covert meant not for front pocket carry, but for a different type of carry because we we met a lot of people and heard from a lot of people that they wanted, wanted something that was not in the pocket, which is a limiter, right? It's a design limiter if you need to get it in your front pocket, which was part partly how this thing was born. Without the constraint of the pocket, it can be bigger. And so it's MOLLE mounted or belt mounted, and, but with still many of the functional features that the Covert has. And so that that's coming. And then, you know, I sort of alluded to it already.

Chas and John Fisher [00:22:24]:
There are there are stabbers out there, people who want really pure stabbing, implements. You know, we we've had a lot of discussions with some people, some tier 1 operator people, and talk to them about their needs both, you know, when they're, when they're deployed, but also when they're just in civilian mode. And they, you know, they like stabbing. And there are some really good reasons for that. So we got a few of those coming. And then, yeah.

Chas and John Fisher [00:22:53]:
Well, I've been designing, like most knifemakers, my perfect everyday carry, for maybe 10 years. And for an all around EDC knife, that's a very difficult thing to design. One would think that because it's so broad it'd be easy, but there's so many compromises that one needs to make, right? You have a self defense or a tactical knife. I mean, its intent is very narrow, it's very succinct. When you are designing a knife to do everything, your daily tasks that might be everything from cutting food to opening boxes, I don't know, maybe, you know, small game processing, it gets more difficult. So, I've been designing that for many years and we're getting down to something that I think is going to be a real beauty. We also have a hunting knife that's in the works, one that I made, design that I made of my brothers as a handmade knife that we are going to, be transitioning into a production model. That will also happen fairly soon.

Bob DeMarco [00:24:10]:
Okay. I I got some questions about a number of these. I'm gonna I'm gonna I wanna ask, stab. I want I'm gonna ask Jazz about the stabber in a second, but since you're talking about your you've been developing for years your perfect EDC, knife, everyday carry knife. What does that entail for you? What what are looks not looks wise, but, like, how how would that come together? You mentioned, the kinds of things you wanted to be able to do, food, boxes, small game, but what are we thinking? What are we looking at?

Chas and John Fisher [00:24:41]:
Think bird and trout. It's largely a updated, modified, kinda bird and trout design. That's where I started. As an outdoorsman, as someone who lives in Montana, someone who's in the outdoors, I have some land that I'll be moving on to next year that's in the middle of a national forest, like, you know, I'm out there. So, it's generally a burden trout design. Fisher blades bleeds very strongly in full size handles. We're not a big three finger, you know, it's like give me a full handle and a short blade and I can manipulate that blade very, very well. If you give me a short blade and a short handle, my manipulation of that blade is going to be so limited, so much more limited than a full handle.

Chas and John Fisher [00:25:40]:
So, that's sort of my design and ethos on that is to basically take the bird and trout, make sure it's a full size handle, short ish blade that can do everything. We'll see. We'll see.

Bob DeMarco [00:25:56]:
You mentioned the the challenges of, actually using a small blade with a small handle, and it just brings to mind you're talking about Montana where, it gets cold. And when you're out in the outdoors, and even if it's not that cold, but your hands are wet and you're trying to, use that small knife to field dress an animal. This is all speculation. I've never done this myself. But I would imagine cold hands, you know, aren't as nimble, and holding on to a tiny blade and, you know, trying to accomplish this work could be perilous. I mean, you could slice yourself open in the middle of nowhere because you don't have enough grip. Yep. I've seen some bird and trout knives that have, a a ring at the end of the handle, so it can kinda hang and, while you're doing other stuff, and then you can use it.

Bob DeMarco [00:26:46]:
That that is not ordinarily a a regular feature on that style knife, though, is it? It's usually a just a small blade.

Chas and John Fisher [00:26:53]:
Yeah. It's generally sort of a simple handle, you know, and a the blade shape will change somewhat. I mean, sometimes there's a little bit less belly, a little bit more belly, whether it's geared towards more skinning, like a true classic bird and trout, or a little bit less belly if you're getting into other tasks. So it's a fairly simple knife in the sense that it's, you know, the design is not intricate. But again, when you are trying to design a knife to do a 1000000 different things, I find that much more difficult than designing a knife that is for a very specific task. However, as I mentioned, when it's a specific task, if you mess up on one little thing, it's like it's almost useless. Like, you know, you can't mess it up if you're going for something very specific. If it's a, everyday carry knife like the one I'm designing, you do have a little bit more wiggle room, right? Because you're designing it for all sorts of things.

Chas and John Fisher [00:28:10]:
So if it's not perfect in one but it works in another aspect of use, that can be justified. So, again, it's, you know, like many things in the world, like steels, and, it's a matter of compromise. It's always a matter of what you're gonna compromise and why. That's why the design process is so important, and good design is important. I mean, sexy knives are wonderful, but they they need to do what they were designed to do first, and then look sexy. And if you design it well, it will look sexy.

Bob DeMarco [00:28:50]:
You know, it's kinda like, it's kinda like someone that you might look at and isn't necessarily attractive at first glance, but then you you talk to her and, and then discover, oh, wow, man. She's cool and and all this. And and that changes what sexy is or what what attractive is. I'm I'm always talking about this because I have a I have a large collection of knives, and I love them. And, but I I use, you know, a a vanishingly small percentage of them, on a daily basis, so it is a very aesthetic thing for me. I love art. It's kinda like collecting art for me. But, yeah, it's interesting how how good looking can change once you basically have a conversation

Chas and John Fisher [00:29:35]:
Yeah. So to speak.

Chas and John Fisher [00:29:37]:
Totally true.

Bob DeMarco [00:29:38]:
So we're talking about design considerations and purpose first. You mentioned, Chaz, that you, sort of gained out, this this this more thrust oriented knife with tier 1 operation. I just love that term because it just it elicits what's I think there are only 3 organizations that have tier 1, you know, or or something like that. And, you know, these are the best of the best of the best, the most deadly, you know, most smart also. They're not just deadly. They're incredibly smart, of our fighting forces. So what are some of the, design considerations in making a thrust first kind of knife for those guys or for anyone?

Chas and John Fisher [00:30:21]:
Well, carryability is one of them. And, you know, without giving away too much about which, you know, we've got 2 different 2 different versions of that knife coming out and they they'll they roughly follow carry, the sort of carry protocol for it. But, for, basically, you wanna be able to carry it well. It can't be too bulky, too, you know, too too kludgy to carry or attach to MOLLE or, you know, in the case of if it's pocket carry, and we will have a pocket carry version, you know, too bulky in in there, you know, so slim and narrow, so that you can actually use your pockets, you know, similar to the Covert. Draw is very important, and just like it has been for the Covert, being able to draw that thing in an indexed fashion so that you're not having to reacquire a grip once you draw it, flip it or do anything weird with it, you know, after you draw because presumably, you're drawing it for a reason, and the reason is is, very urgent. Right? So you don't wanna waste a lot of time dinking around with your with your grip. And then post penetration, manipulation of that blade to get additional damage and tissue, and an ability to if you run into something that's that's hard, that needs to be punched through, the the end of it, the pommel, needs to allow for, persuading it with the other hand. Meaning, you can't have, like, skull crusher or BS like that on there.

Chas and John Fisher [00:31:54]:
Yeah. That whole skull crusher thing, I haven't done a video on it yet myself, but I'm going to. They're cool. They look cool for Molcop knives, right? But if you're really needing to drive that blade into somebody who's got a lot of clothing on or you've run into something and you need to give it that extra jam with your other hand, you don't want something sharp and pokey on it, damaging yourself.

Bob DeMarco [00:32:15]:
Or even just a regular reverse grip, you know, you generally want your thumb there and and a skull crusher as a as a utility.

Chas and John Fisher [00:32:23]:
Yeah. So those are just a few of the considerations. Length is a consideration, obviously, because you need to be able to get to, the vital parts. So that that is important. So we considered all of those, and, you know, I had long conversations with with, members of, all those organizations, you know, those different branches that you that you were thinking about, both active duty and and former. And so that gave us a lot of information about how to how to, design that knife, both of those knives.

Bob DeMarco [00:32:58]:
I I find it fascinating that, you know, most people like myself who love fighting knives just as a form, you know, whether it's looking at book in history books at them or, you know, collecting them, have no experience in actually using them outside of a a martial arts school, but that there is a very slender, group of people who you're talking about right now. And and it's, it's somewhat common, because of how close they are to danger all the time, especially in clearing houses and stuff and people getting tied up. I've heard I've heard stories, you know, of people having to use their knives who weren't even, you know, at that level of, proficiency. You know? So to a very small and slender, group of the population, it is extremely important. And that's when all the stuff, all the cool stuff, you know, like big guards and and the and the Brainers, the Skull Crushers, all that stuff goes out the window. You know? Yeah. Yeah. I've I've heard someone talk about Amora knives and how great they are for that purpose.

Bob DeMarco [00:34:09]:
You know, they're stout. You'd never know it because they're bright and cheerful, and they're meant for something totally different, but they fit kind of all of the all of the, design considerations.

Chas and John Fisher [00:34:20]:
Yeah. Well, I'll I'll add real quickly. One of the things that struck me in talking to all of these guys, it was it was across every one of them mentioned this to me. They've got so much training to do in the scope of their their jobs. You know, I mean, everything you think of, you know, all the flashy stuff, making stuff blow up and, you know, weapon systems, you know, firearm systems and and, small group tactics and general CQB stuff like, you know, clearing rooms and houses and, you know, houses and stuff like that. They can't devote a lot of time to their blade work. It is a real it's really far down their list of things that they spend get to spend time on. Not that they wouldn't or don't want to.

Chas and John Fisher [00:35:02]:
They got a lot of other stuff to stay on top of. Right? And so it it struck me as super interesting that you got these guys that are so lethal in everything they do, but when it comes to the blade, they don't get to spend much time with it. And that is one of the reason one of the reasons why they choose something like, a stabbing protocol because you don't of course, you need some training with it. But to be effective in power cutting and power slashing, you need a lot of training. You need to really understand anatomy well and spend a lot of time with that blade and a trainer for that blade to be able to selectively power cut so you disable somebody or get them, to to be bleeding out really quickly. It takes a lot of precision, and those guys don't have the time to do that. So that's one of the one of the reasons among many that they prefer something that can be held in reverse grip and stabbed with. So, I thought that was interesting because there are a lot of people out there in the world just who are who are not tier 1 guys, who are not even in the service, who don't put a lot of time into training.

Chas and John Fisher [00:36:08]:
And so for for them, it is probably also a better option than something that, Power Slash is, unless they're willing to put the time into training.

Bob DeMarco [00:36:17]:
I've heard from from a gentleman I was just recently speaking with who has trained, those kind of guys that frequently, when they're training, they'll just drop the knife and just go right to a fist because, like you're saying, they're constantly going off to demolition school and this school and that school and desert school, and they're constantly keeping up, keeping up their skills and learning more and more stuff. And, you know, knife is an ancient thing, and there's, you know, it doesn't play nearly as prominently as all these other, well, weapon systems and such.

Chas and John Fisher [00:36:48]:
And

Bob DeMarco [00:36:48]:
and in training, they they're apt to drop the the aluminum training knife and just go to town, with their fist. So you make something that's intuitive, and and simple to use, and that's kind of the ticket. Yep. In terms of, carry systems, the Covert was is very definitely a pocket carry, as as we've touched on. Mhmm. What other what else are you hearing? I mean, few people EDC right on their belt, you know, unless they're kind of in the country and they don't have a lot of pearl clutters around them to freak out. Most people kinda stash them, one way or another. What what are you what are you looking to, do with the carry systems of these various knives?

Chas and John Fisher [00:37:37]:
Well, of course, we have had, you know, belt carry requests.

Chas and John Fisher [00:37:42]:
Belt, Ranger Ranger carry. Inside the waistband. Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:37:45]:
What's Ranger carry? I'm looking at that.

Chas and John Fisher [00:37:48]:
Horizontal. Usually, usually, the back so that you pull it like that. You pull a knife like that.

Chas and John Fisher [00:37:55]:
And then, you know, moly carry, we Yep. Is is, is also something. We're we're looking at all these, by the way, even for the Covert. Quite a few with the Covert, we've had quite a few requests for front, appendix, kind of appendix style carry for people who are using this as a secondary to their to their pistol. To their pistol. Yeah. And so they're gonna do offhand, you know, and I know you you you like offhand, reverse grip, edge out. And so we've got some options that we're developing for that as well

Chas and John Fisher [00:38:29]:
And that's as much a part of the knife design as the knife itself. Yeah. You see so many knives, and it's generally the cheaper knives, that will just throw this big honkin' do everything, sheath, and it's just bulky and heavy and difficult and not well thought out. So we spend as much energy and time into the sheath as the knife. I I mean, it's an integral part of the system of the of of the use of the knife, so, we take it very seriously.

Bob DeMarco [00:39:08]:
So a a a big part of fixed blade knives is the carry system. A lot of times, people I know knife designers are really interested in designing the knives, making the knives, but the sheaths are kind of a buzzkill. What what do you guys, what are the considerations for sheath carry?

Chas and John Fisher [00:39:29]:
It depends on the knife, right, and the intent of the knife, and that goes with it. And you're right, so many designers, really don't think about the sheath enough, or they think about it too much, and they try to add everything and it becomes heavy and cumbersome with a whole bunch of extra parts. So I will let Chaz speak to the covert, but it really makes a difference in what the knife is gonna be used for. Yeah.

Chas and John Fisher [00:39:57]:
I mean, you know, we've talked about it already a fair bit, but, you know, the covert was intended to be carried front pocket, and, you know, for a variety of reasons that's where I wanted the knife to be. And, if it's gonna be in the pocket, it's gotta fit in the pocket well, and I wanted the pocket to be used for other stuff. So I didn't wanna be I didn't want the clip to be attached on the, you know, on the side of it, like a lot of sheaths are. You've got the you know, you can attach it over on, you know, on the the edge of it, on the, the grommets over there. So I didn't wanna do that. I wanted it to kinda be as slim as as we could make it, given some other constraints that we had. So, you know, I'd say a huge number of considerations go into it. I mean, as we've as we've discussed with sheath design already.

Chas and John Fisher [00:40:41]:
Almost as much, I mean, I would say as much as the knife. I mean, it's the same amount of design and consideration into a sheath as a knife because they're one and the same in the sense that, I mean, what good is one without the other? You know, you're not going to carry a knife without a sheath out with you on your daily tasks. And what you know, you'd have to have it in your hand all the time. So, yeah, I I concur with my brother, of course. So many I mean, everything is a consideration.

Bob DeMarco [00:41:12]:
I mean, that that's that's the cool thing about the modern or a cool thing about these modern synthetic sheaths are the versatility. You know, if you make one, with the grommets on the side, then you can do more stuff with it. But there's also something to be said for, natural materials. I'm sure, John, this this might play in more with the kind of knives, that that are in in your, wheelhouse, but, leather. I love leather sheets. And every once in a while, you know, you'll see, I'll get a new knife, and it surprisingly has a leather sheet, and that's,

Chas and John Fisher [00:41:47]:
I

Bob DeMarco [00:41:47]:
don't know. That that's always a, but that's, again, that's more from a collector's point of view because if you're taking this thing out into the woods all the time as an outdoors knife or if it's riding right next to your body all the time and you're sweating and that kind of thing Yep. Leather is not the greatest thing. Also, if you're making a stabber, like, is in the works for you guys, that tip can go through leather in in bad situations.

Chas and John Fisher [00:42:14]:
That's what they're made for. Well, we we we don't wanna talk smack on leather. You know, you know, we've talked about making some leather sheets, but we we think they're with with that, material, there is actually a lot of room to be doing some cool new things. And so we've been looking at those, and if, you know, if we can do something, if we could use that material, but but still have it achieve what what we need to achieve in terms of its carryability, I'd like to use it. I mean, I I carried a a pistol and a leather, horsehide leather, holster for years, and it one of it's super comfortable. So I I think there's there's still a lot of, legitimate legitimate uses of leather as a sheath.

Chas and John Fisher [00:42:55]:
And and leather, really leather has a finite life, right? Like kydex could, I mean you might have to change the grommets out in 10 years.

Chas and John Fisher [00:43:05]:
Yeah.

Chas and John Fisher [00:43:06]:
But that's a consideration, and it's just like sharpening a knife. If you have a leather sheath, you need to take care of it, and maybe occasionally replace it at a cost. So that is a consideration. But like you, Bob, I love a good leather sheath and I come from kind of the bushcraft outdoor world and it just it's hard to beat the feel, the smell, the look of leather in in my book.

Bob DeMarco [00:43:33]:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And and there I have seen some sheaths that are leather. Actually, there's a guy I'm thinking of who no longer makes knives, sadly, but he really specialized in making these kind of sheaths, where the, knife basically locked in almost like kydex. Not not exactly with that same mechanical connection, but, you can you can do a lot with leather if you take the time. Again, that might not be as practical on a production, production side, but,

Chas and John Fisher [00:44:05]:
it's true.

Bob DeMarco [00:44:06]:
So here's a question for you. John, you said that, knife and sheath are are almost of equal import, and that made me think of a folder where where the, handle and the blade are equal import. Have you guys thought about that, doing a folder? And and if so, what would it what would that be like?

Chas and John Fisher [00:44:30]:
We we have thought about it, and it's in the works. I I I will leave it to my brother to talk a little bit more about our first foray into a folding knife. But you know, with a folding knife too, it's it's the profile of that knife when it's folded is really important, right? Because you're gonna have to put it somewhere. You're putting it in your pocket, you're putting it in a sheath, a little, you know, whatever. So that becomes, really crucial too. I mean, just because you get rid of the sheath doesn't mean that you're not thinking about about how it's carried. So but I'll

Chas and John Fisher [00:45:07]:
let my brother go on. Well, I mean, you you know what? That's the world that I came from was very heavy with folders, and and I love them. I, I I I like them at least a lot. I think, they they are by an order of magnitude, at least, they are much more complex to both design and to make. And so, we're we're taking it very carefully and slowly so that we get it right. So, yeah, there is there is a folder that is has been conceived. There have been sketches made of it, and we're figuring out the best way to, to have it be exactly what we want it to be, you know, in in keeping with our whole, purpose first design philosophy. We need to we need to get it right.

Chas and John Fisher [00:45:58]:
So it will not probably come out until 2026 at the earliest.

Bob DeMarco [00:46:03]:
Well, you're a, martial artist and a fighting knife guy, obviously. Where do you think folders have a place in that realm?

Chas and John Fisher [00:46:13]:
I think they have they have a place, and, you know, it's for very obvious reasons a fixed blade is a lot more reliable than a folder. But a folder is, in many ways, much more carriable and and also more socially acceptable, and in some places, more, more legal than a fixed blade would be. And so there are good reasons to make a folder, a defensive, folding knife. Very good reasons. So we just we wanna get it right before we we do it. And, yeah, I think that's probably all I wanna say about it right now because it's so far in the future that this thing will actually come out. But we're we really wanna do it because we think there is a lot of cool stuff to do with folders. Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:46:57]:
I also have a a question about grinds. I know, John, now the name is escaping me. You have a bushcraft knife. It's it's basically like a puko, and, it's got a nice scandi edge on it. Have you guys considered hollow grinds and scandi grinds and different kind of things, but taking them, in like, I always thought a scandi ground would be excellent for fighting, for a fighting nug. I also like a hollow grind. Are these what do you what are you thinking about grinds? Are are you know, are there benefits to some rather than others, in the in the kind of knives you're making right now? Like, is there any room for a hollow grind on a Beckwith, for instance?

Chas and John Fisher [00:47:45]:
You know, my personal opinion is I I I don't like hollow grinds, and one of the reasons is because the sharpening knife, because it it does this, there's a point at which as you sharpen up, it gets thinner and thinner and thinner. And I have to say I'm sort of justifying that. I really just dislike them. I don't know, I can't tell you exactly all the reasons why, but that is one of them and I just have not ever felt very warm to them. Scandi, you know, historically, Scandi grinds were 0 degrees. So they would come to a point. And that's for soft wood, very delicate, you know, it's a delicate edge. So for something like a fighting knife, maybe, maybe not.

Chas and John Fisher [00:48:39]:
You also have the thickness of the blade that comes down further, so that will add weight, although it will increase strength as well. So all these myriad, things to consider and compromises to consider. My personal belief is that I love Scandi with like a little nice convex micro bevel on it. I love that for camping, outdoor, general wood stuff, even an EDC kind of knife, I don't mind it. My favorite grind is a convex edge, or really a full convex. It's the most natural organic shape. It's if you sharpen on stones, unless you're very, very good, eventually it'll get basically convex.

Chas and John Fisher [00:49:31]:
Right, right.

Chas and John Fisher [00:49:33]:
And it makes sense. The geometry is there as well. But I think there's some room in some different areas, for both, I think for fighting, both a convex edge, V edge, I'm a little, I would have to think a little bit more about Scandi for that, but in a sense for strength because you retain the full thickness rather than a full flat grind where you're taking off metal from the very top of the spine all the way down, you'll get some more weight and strength, so that could be an interesting thing.

Chas and John Fisher [00:50:12]:
I don't think we'd ever say never to something as a consideration, but it really has to we don't wanna do it just because we can or that it or or because it looks cool or

Chas and John Fisher [00:50:24]:
That is different than what we've done.

Chas and John Fisher [00:50:26]:
It it it has to serve a purpose. And so, I I agree with what my brother said about the Scandi, you know, potential. It's strong, stronger. Right? You could stab stab somebody in the skull with it and probably really not have to worry about it. Even if it's not great steel, you wouldn't have to worry about it breaking. But, you know, that's not really what we're designing. We're not designing, you know, zombie killing No. Things.

Chas and John Fisher [00:50:50]:
Hold on. We might design a a head stab or

Bob DeMarco [00:50:52]:
we might design a hip and

Chas and John Fisher [00:50:53]:
a half. So we're not we're

Chas and John Fisher [00:50:54]:
not gonna we're not gonna totally discount it.

Bob DeMarco [00:50:57]:
Yeah. If the demand is there, come on, guys. I have a I have a buddy who's got a folder coming out, and it's a full Convex, not just the Edge, the whole thing.

Chas and John Fisher [00:51:06]:
And,

Bob DeMarco [00:51:07]:
I I have a what's that? Yeah. It's a folder.

Chas and John Fisher [00:51:10]:
Oh, cool.

Chas and John Fisher [00:51:11]:
Yep. Nice.

Bob DeMarco [00:51:12]:
And, it is really cool. It's very unique, and and he's a professional sharper among other sharpener among other things. And, that's that's what it that's when he sharpens, it's slightly convex. And so I I find it interesting that he did a full convex on this knife. It's being, you know so I have a prototype here. It's pretty unusual. It's a beautiful knife. It's at all of that, but it's very unusual and alarming to open it up and see this.

Bob DeMarco [00:51:43]:
You don't expect to see that on a folder. You know?

Chas and John Fisher [00:51:45]:
So that's

Bob DeMarco [00:51:45]:
pretty cool.

Chas and John Fisher [00:51:45]:
That's awesome. That's really

Bob DeMarco [00:51:47]:
cool. But, again, you know, I'm just looking at it how it looks. I'm not gonna be taking this beautiful, probably, $300 folder out and carving wood with it, which is probably what it's, what that edge is best for. Right? Yeah. You know that I've kinda

Chas and John Fisher [00:52:01]:
Well, when you when you get that that almond teardrop shape, it can do a lot of things well, you know, theoretically. Right? Like, I mean, cutting things, now you have to have an ability so that, like, food or meat would not stick to to the flat of the blade or or anything like that. But, I mean, if you if you think about what does a what does an airplane, you know, nose look like? I mean, it's, you know?

Bob DeMarco [00:52:27]:
Yeah, right, right.

Chas and John Fisher [00:52:28]:
It's a very organic almond kind of curve, makes a lot of sense geometrically, strength, ease of sharpening. I mean, I think a convex edge and or full grind is so easy to sharpen for me. I mean, I've sharpened thousands of knives, probably thousands of times, but Convex is the way to go for me personally. I'm I'm a huge fan, and eventually we'll come out with some knives with that or an option for that grind.

Chas and John Fisher [00:53:04]:
You've stumbled onto one of my brother's great passions. Full convex.

Chas and John Fisher [00:53:08]:
It is. It's the convex.

Chas and John Fisher [00:53:10]:
It keeps him going.

Chas and John Fisher [00:53:11]:
Why people don't use it more, I don't understand. I I really don't.

Chas and John Fisher [00:53:15]:
I Tools.

Chas and John Fisher [00:53:15]:
It is a beautiful, beautiful thing.

Bob DeMarco [00:53:20]:
So you guys, something that you're you've very much built your company on so far, if I'm not mistaken, is the is the batch concept. Yeah. Come coming out with batches. This, beautiful FDE, version of the Beckwith covert is batch 5, I

Chas and John Fisher [00:53:36]:
believe. Yep.

Bob DeMarco [00:53:37]:
Batch 5. Yeah. And you were kind enough to send me, the this The trainer? No. No. No. Well, yeah, the trainer too, but the unicorn. Yeah. So do you intend to use the batch model moving forward? And and also, are you gonna do more unicorns? Is that part of your your model?

Chas and John Fisher [00:54:00]:
Yeah. So, small batch production is another one of our main drivers. You know, we've got 3 main drivers, and, you know, PerksFirst is 1, small batch production is the other. And so we absolutely will continue doing these in batches. And that is, really the the consequence of the merging of our 2 different approaches to making knives. Yep. And and it allows us to get hands on every single knife almost to a nauseating level for a guy who comes from production, right? It's like, oh my god, the number of times that each blade gets handled by each of us in this process, is it's very it's a lot, right? And so, but what it allows us to do is really pay attention to quality and really pay attention to what's going out the door, which is something you can't do with production. And so we are absolutely gonna stick with that.

Chas and John Fisher [00:54:51]:
We don't anticipate, you know, not doing it, and we don't anticipate the numbers of those batches really changing a huge amount. They'll still be, you know, in the 100 to several 100 range.

Chas and John Fisher [00:55:03]:
Yep. The other thing, the beautiful thing about the batch is it allows us to remain flexible. So if you design a knife and you think, Oh wow, you know, we could tweak this little thing here and it would be a better knife. Well, we don't have 10,000 sitting on the shelf. Yeah. You know, we can make changes, we can make improvements, get feedback, and be lean and mean and flexible. Whereas some of the bigger knife companies that my brother has worked for, I mean, I don't know how many they order at a time, I mean, ridiculous. Huge capital investment, and that's it.

Chas and John Fisher [00:55:42]:
I mean, and if you know that there's something wrong with that knife and you're selling it, and, you know, it would break my heart to have a knife design, and we had 10,010,000 of them, and I would say every time I looked at the knife going, God, we just need to change that. Well, we have to sell them all before we can change that.

Bob DeMarco [00:56:02]:
Yeah. And who knows if you ever sell them all?

Chas and John Fisher [00:56:05]:
Very position, you know, to to to

Chas and John Fisher [00:56:08]:
do that, so And to answer your unicorn question, we absolutely Oh, yeah. We've got a really good one coming. I'm not sure when this is gonna when this is gonna hit, but, it comes out later this week, actually. And

Bob DeMarco [00:56:19]:
so Oh, no.

Chas and John Fisher [00:56:20]:
Good. Oh, cool. And I thought about bringing it on here, Bob, to show you and maybe Not yet. You guys, but now Not yet. You don't get to see it yet.

Chas and John Fisher [00:56:29]:
It's a cool one. It's a really, really cool one, this this this unicorn. You you guys will see.

Bob DeMarco [00:56:34]:
So my unicorn, I carried once, and I got a little scratch on the blade, little tiny scratch on the blade right near where it says, Beckwith, and it's just from drawing it and putting it back in or whatever I did. And so now this this this remains as pristine as it can be. I don't carry this one. I I like I said before, I I oddly enough find myself carrying the FDE version. I say oddly because who doesn't absolute I just love black and red. Yeah. The black and red liners are so fine, but I keep reaching for that for for this. And I've made a fool out of myself on YouTube with this,

Chas and John Fisher [00:57:15]:
trainer.

Chas and John Fisher [00:57:16]:
That's the one to make a fool out of yourself with. If you if you do it that with the other ones. You do

Chas and John Fisher [00:57:21]:
it with the trainer. Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [00:57:22]:
Yeah. Yeah. Actually, that's that's I've made a fool out of myself with other knives before. I much prefer to do it with a trainer. Yeah. I wanna ask you guys both individually, what have you learned from this venture working together, about the knife world that you didn't know or that that has come as a pleasant surprise?

Chas and John Fisher [00:57:45]:
That's that's a really good question. That is a great question.

Chas and John Fisher [00:57:50]:
Well, I mean, just kind of on a personal and on a family level, I've learned that I I like working with my brother after all. And, so that's cool, right, because we are related. It is, in fact, a huge amount of fun to work with somebody whom you trust so much and respect so much, and you can never fire and they can never fire you. It's like we're in it. And so, I've learned that as far as as far as the knife world, I think I don't know. I think it's not necessarily because we are doing it, but because things are changing, and there are smaller companies like ours, you know, cropping up everywhere doing some really cool knives. And, it is it it's it's nice to see that in a in the oldest tool that man has ever you know, the first tool we ever made, that people can still do cool stuff. You know, you'd think it'd be completely mature.

Chas and John Fisher [00:58:48]:
We would just have be be done with it now, but there there are small companies cropping up all over the place doing excellent work, and it's so inspiring and fun to see. So that's one of the things that I've learned. Yeah.

Chas and John Fisher [00:59:01]:
Well, I I too enjoy working with my brother, so I won't go through that, repeat what he said, but I feel the same way. You know, I've learned a lot, you know, a whole bunch of a lot of different things. You know, one kind of negative thing is a lot of companies out there do not, concentrate on their edges, which makes no sense, right? A knife starts with its edge and everything supports that edge. Everything after that edge is there to bring that edge to whatever task you deem necessary. I'm really proud about how we do our edges by hand, and I mean, if it's off a little bit, I go back and I fix it. And if it can't be fixed, it's a second. It's done, it's in the bucket. I have also seen some companies that really care, you know, care like we do, and it is real heartening to see.

Chas and John Fisher [01:00:00]:
I came from custom makers and some wonderful people that were willing to share most of their secrets with me. If I had tried to learn on my own without these people, I would, I mean, I'd still be trying to figure out how to grind a knife. The generosity of custom knife makers, generally, less so production, but some. But those custom makers, I mean they will tell you almost every one of their secrets. They usually keep 1 Almost. 2, you know. They got to, we have to, but they I mean, if you ask them to tell you or teach you something, they I mean, let me show you, come on in, let's do it. And that kind of brotherhood, that kind of, collaboration with competitors, I mean, really raises all of our game.

Chas and John Fisher [01:00:58]:
I mean, every time I make a knife, sharpen a knife, I look at other people's knives and I compare. I go, Am I pushing it hard enough? Am I good enough? Look at how good this knife, you know, this competitor's knife is. We have to be better. And I know they look at our knives and say the same thing, so we just, we all raise the bar for each other to make better product. And, that's the the best thing about this world, that I've found.

Bob DeMarco [01:01:30]:
Yeah. That's awesome. Well, I've I've heard that from other people, the generosity of other makers.

Chas and John Fisher [01:01:37]:
Yep. And I have to call out, I was an apprentice of Andy Roy. He was so generous to bring me in and, I mean, basically just said, Look, here it is. Here are the keys to figure it out. And Alan Searls, a good friend of mine, Dirk Lutz, I mean, these guys are top notch people and knife makers. I mean, really, I've been very, very lucky. Joey Berry is another. He just makes fantastic knives.

Chas and John Fisher [01:02:07]:
I've learned I learned so much from Joey. I mean, some some fantastic people there.

Bob DeMarco [01:02:13]:
Alright, guys. Before I let you go, I do believe the unicorn will be coming out, one week before this show goes, goes up. But tell everyone where they can find, well, where they can find Fisher blades and what you have in stock that they can get, because I know it's kinda catches catch cam because they're very popular knives. But also let us know about the Unicorn Drop. You don't have to say what it is. I know you're not going to, but, when is that gonna happen?

Chas and John Fisher [01:02:41]:
Well, right now in stock, we have that FTE that that you've been showing, this one right here. Right? The FTE coyote Scale Black Liner, you know, we we have some of those still on hand. And then Friday, or Saturday, December, what is that, 7th, we have 2 batches dropping. We've got a unicorn batch of only a 100 units, and that that drops on Saturday, December 7th, as well as a, black red black rerun. We call those reruns. And so that that also it has we have a few more of those dropping, but both of those drop on Saturday.

Bob DeMarco [01:03:20]:
When you do a rerun, do you consider that a whole new batch? Is that, like, batch 7 or

Chas and John Fisher [01:03:25]:
That'll that'll be batch 7. The the unicorn is gonna be batch 6.

Chas and John Fisher [01:03:28]:
Okay. Yeah.

Bob DeMarco [01:03:29]:
Well, that's very exciting. Hopefully, you get to show we we the patrons might get to see the unicorn, we only have 30 of them, so maybe maybe that that can be arranged, but

Chas and John Fisher [01:03:42]:
You can find it at fisherblades.com, Fisher Blades on Instagram, Fisher Blades on YouTube.

Bob DeMarco [01:03:49]:
Great YouTube channel, by the way.

Chas and John Fisher [01:03:51]:
Fisher Blades on X.

Chas and John Fisher [01:03:53]:
X.

Chas and John Fisher [01:03:54]:
So And rumble. Fisher Blades will, you know, if you search Fisher Blades you'll get there. If you go to our website we have links to all of our social media on there. And the best way to get our knives, because we do batches, is to become what we call an insider. Give us your email, you get first crack. So we don't offer it to the our batches to the public until we have offered it to what we call our insiders first, so they get first crack. And because we have seen other people who do batches where some customers really, they don't get any notification or very little, and they're gone like that.

Chas and John Fisher [01:04:32]:
Yeah. So

Chas and John Fisher [01:04:32]:
we're really trying to get those, you know Yep. Get it to those people.

Bob DeMarco [01:04:37]:
I've I've fallen victim to that, and I hate it. So

Chas and John Fisher [01:04:40]:
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, guys.

Chas and John Fisher [01:04:41]:
We're trying to avoid that.

Bob DeMarco [01:04:43]:
Chaz and John Fisher of Fisher Blades, thank you so much for joining me again on the Knife Junkie podcast. Always great to talk to you guys. And, yes, you do have exquisite edges on your knives, and these things are awesome.

Chas and John Fisher [01:04:54]:
Thanks, Tom.

Bob DeMarco [01:04:55]:
Thanks for everything you guys do, and

Chas and John Fisher [01:04:57]:
talk to you.

Bob DeMarco [01:04:58]:
We'll talk to you soon.

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Bob DeMarco [01:05:16]:
There they go, ladies and gentlemen. Chas and John Fisher. So happy to have them here and, and talk about their 2 different perspectives becoming one. It's a beautiful thing. Alright. Be sure to join us on Thursday for Thursday night knives, Wednesday for the midweek supplemental. I guess I'm going backward in the week, and Sunday for another great interview. For Jim working his magic behind the switcher, I'm Bob DeMarco saying until next time, don't take dull for an answer.

Bob DeMarco [01:05:42]:
Thanks for listening to the Knife Junkie podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please rate and review at review the podcast.com. For show notes for today's episode, additional resources, and to listen to past episodes, visit our website, the knifejunkie.com. You can also watch our latest videos on YouTube at the knifejunkie.com/youtube. Check out some great knife photos on the knifejunkie.com/instagram, and join our Facebook group at the knifejunkie.com/facebook. And if you have a question or comment, email them to bob@theknifejunkie.com, or call our 247 listener line at 724-466-4487. And you may hear your comment or question answered on an upcoming episode of the Knife Junkie podcast.